Omega 3 fish oil

Hi group,

Does anyone have any experience with omega 3 fish oil for Crohn's? If so, did it help? I've heard it might be beneficial.

Chet

Hey Chester... Saw a post on here somewhere, (can't recall - old mind, weak memory).. anyway, think it linked to a posting on the CCFA about the latest diet N other considerations for dealing with IBD. Now, dont' hold me to this, but I think it stated that Omega 3 was a definite good thing to take for IBD (pretty sure on it) BUT that Omega 6 was not (that's the part I'm not so sure on, either because my memory isn't that good, or my understanding of the post wasn't).
Sure there must be either others on here who can recall/point you to post OR who have chapter and verse at hand on the pros/cons of both Omega 3 N 6

I have taken fish oil and now use Krill oil. They both do the same thing but the Krill oil is supposed to be better.

The Omega 3 is what does the trick. Apparently, there needs to be more Omega 3 in the diet and most of us are getting too much Omega 6. I do not really remember why.

The Fish oil and Krill oil cured my dandruff problem and that is why i still take it. It is supposed to help with Crohn's and other auto immune diseases. I never really noticed a dramatic difference in my Crohn's from using it, but I was taking several other supplements which confuses results. If it helped to heal my scalp, I am assuming it did not limit its healing effects to just that part of my body.

Dan Bergman

yeah im taking omega 3 at the minute and have been for around 2 months. i feel great lately but doubt if its much to do with the omega 3 fish oil. its hard to tell whether or not its helped me but it cant really do any harm so i would recomend taking it. it has certainly not done me any harm.

I was reading about this subject in the "Eating right for a bad gut" book. Omega 3 fish oil stimulates production of the natural enzyme PGE-3 which modulates and reduces inflammation in the body while Omega-6 causes production of PGE-2 which increases inflammation which is our problem in the first place.

i've been taking omega 3 for a couple weeks now ... i've also been on a pred-free remission for a few weeks too. I'm also taking turmeric extract. What kind of foods is omega 6 found in

Excellent question... I am not taking any Omega 6 supplements, but never gave a moments thought about naturally occuring sources of Omega 6.. Like, the eggs I eat are Omega 3 laden... and it also occurs in deep, cold water fish (like salmon, or halibut - but they are hi in fat, and I'm on a low fat diet, so I don't eat them)..

Anyone spotted any foods that are naturally or artifically high in Omega 6???

Here is the results on a study of Krill Oil. Dr. Mercola recommends Krill Oil because he feels it is better than Fish Oil. Apparently, he was correct. I have been using it for a while now.

Dan Bergman

NewsTarget.com printable article
Originally published January 2 2008

Krill Oil Dramatically Lowers C-Reactive Protein
by Teri Lee Gruss

(NewsTarget) Canadian researchers published the findings of a randomized, double blind study designed to assess the effects of Neptune Krill Oil (NKO) on levels of C-reactive protein (CRP) in patients with chronic inflammation. The study was published in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition.

Ninety subjects participated in the study and were chosen based on confirmed diagnosis of severely elevated CRP (>1.0 mg/dL or 10mg/L) with cardiovascular disease and/or rheumatoid arthritis and/or osteoarthritis.

Half of the subjects received 300mg of NKO daily and half were given a placebo.

* After 7 days, CRP decreased 19.3% in those treated with NKO and increased 15.7% in the placebo group.

* After 14 days, CRP decreased 29.7% in the NKO group and increased 32.1% in the placebo group.

* After 30 days, CRP decreased 30.9% in the NKO group and dropped to a 25.1% increase in the placebo group.

* Arthritis symptoms were assessed using the WOMAC arthritis score assessment. Researchers found that "NKO reduced pain scores by 28.9%, reduced stiffness by 20.3% and reduced functional impairment by 22.8%".

Researchers concluded that "results of the present study clearly indicate that NKO at a daily dose of 300 mg significantly inhibits inflammation and reduces arthritic symptoms within a short treatment period of 7 and 14 days".

Previous studies have found that Krill oil can significantly lower LDL cholesterol while raising HDL, a fete that no pharmaceutical drug as yet managed to achieve.

The journal Alternative Medicine Review reported that "krill oil is effective for the management of hyperlipidemia by significantly reducing total cholesterol, LDL, and triglycerides, and increasing HDL levels. At lower and equal doses, krill oil was significantly more effective than fish oil for the reduction of glucose, triglycerides, and LDL levels."

The findings of these studies provide good news, both for people seeking safe and effective ways to reduce their risks for cardiovascular disease and to treat the debilitating symptoms of osteo and rheumatoid arthritis.

Have you had a C-reactive protein test?

C-reactive protein is a glycoprotein produced by the liver. It is found in trace amounts in healthy people but rises during acute, systemic (widespread) inflammation.

A more sensitive CRP test has been developed and is available at labs nationwide. It is called a high-sensitivity C-reactive protein (hs-CRP) assay and is a better test for determining risk for heart disease than the older, non-sensitive, CRP assay. Elevated hs-CRP is considered a positive risk factor for heart disease. If your doctor recommends a CRP test, or if you request one, make sure it is the newer hs-CRP assay.

The American Heart Association protocol for CRP: CVD risk

* You are at low risk of developing cardiovascular disease if your hs-CRP level is lower than 1.0mg/L.

* You are at average risk of developing cardiovascular disease if your levels are between 1.0 and 3.0 mg/L.

* You are at high risk for cardiovascular disease if your hs-CRP level is higher than 3.0 mg/L.

According to information at crphealth.com "In middle-aged Americans, the average hs-CRP level is between 1.0 and 2.0 mg/L. About one quarter of Americans have a hs-CRP level above 3mg/L, placing them in the higher risk group".

What is Krill Oil and where does it come from?

Krill are tiny marine crustaceans that feed on phytoplankton. They are at the bottom of the oceanic food chain and are a major food source for migratory sea life, including whales and seals. Because they are so low on the food chain, mercury, PCBs and heavy metals contamination are not considered safety issues like they are in sourcing fish oils.

Krill oil is a rich source of omega-3 fatty acids, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), vitamins A and E, and the antioxidant astaxanthin.

Astaxanthin is a carotenoid pigment responsible for the pinkish color of the crustacean shell and is a powerful "quencher" of the free radical singlet oxygen and scavenger of peroxyl radicals that damage cell structure and function.

Compared to omega-3 rich fish oils, krill oil has a slightly different biomolecular profile and is thought to be absorbed more readily through the intestinal wall, increasing the "bioavailability" of omega three fatty acids. Smaller doses provide many of the same benefits correlated with fish oil intake and the additional antioxidant content of Krill oil make it an important alternative, preventive, and therapeutic treatment for CVD and other inflammatory related diseases.

References and additional reading:

Journal of the American College of Nutrition 2007 Feb;26(1):39-48
Evaluation of the effect of Neptune Krill Oil on chronic inflammation and arthritic symptoms., Deutsch, L (weblink:www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/26/1/39)

Altern Med Rev 2004;9(4):420-428
Evaluation of the effects of Neptune krill oil on the clinical course of hyperlipidemia, Ruxandra Bunea (weblink:www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4648)

Am Heart J. 2005;150(5):1064.e1-1064.e5. (weblink:doctor.medscape.com/viewarticle/517642_2)

(weblink:www.crphealth.com/faq/gen/1/why.hs-crp.html)

(weblink:www.astaxanthin.org/antiox-prop.htm)


About the author
Teri Lee Gruss, MS Human Nutrition

Well, when I was taking Enteric coated Omega 3 fish oil my CRP levels went down to normal (0.8) for the first time since I was diagnosed in 2000. Before my CRP was 7-8 in remission and the GI said that this is normal for a person with Crohn's as even in remission we still have some inflammation going on. But now I cannot find the enteric coated ones, so I switched to normal soft gel capsules, and i flared 3 months ago (CRP was 48!!!!) and had to take Prednisone to quiet things down.

The study that used fish oil to extend remission times in Crohn's patients used special Enteric coated ones. I guess the enteric coating allows the Omega 3 to bypass the stomach and open in the intestines where we need it the most.

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/334/24/1557

All the studies that I read that found a difference also used enteric coating.

makes sense. Now, I wonder where I can lay my hands on some 300mg enteric coated Neptune Krill oil capsules? Or should I just go and take a jump in the lake?

For optimal health the ratio of Omega 6 to Omega 3 intake should be 4:1. But for people with inflammatory diseases like Crohn's, the ratio is recommended at 2:1 or even 1:1.

Now for good sources of Omega 6, it's naturally found in eggs (Omega 3 ones provide a ratio of 1:1), olive oil, lean meats (chicken and beef) and in small amounts in some leafy vegetables (not much tolerated by us unfortunately!). This should be enough for us.

Note that if you take way much Omega 3 over Omega 6 this is not healthy also. The main issue is the ratio between them....

A very Good Book on the subject is "The Omega Diet"

http://www.amazon.com/Omega-Diet-Li...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200389636&sr=8-1

Actually Mazen, I'm surprised, even puzzled. Read a study posted not long ago on the forum (link to CCFA or JAMA, I think) that stated people with IBD should avoid or limit their intake of Omega 6. Omega 3 came out as very beneficial, but Omega 6 seemed to accerbate inflamation, symptoms. anyone else recall reading that?

Hi Kev. Yeah I rememebr that. And it's true. But we still need some Omega 6 as it's an essential fatty acid and we cannot function without it.

http://www.answers.com/topic/omega-6-fatty-acid?cat=health


But for us with Crohn's we need more Omega 3, and just enough Omega 6 for necessary body functions and not to cause more inflammation; that's why a 1:1 ratio seems reasonable.so if we limit our consumption to lean meats from chicken and Turkey, fish, low fat dairy and only olive oil (no other vegetable oils), we should get the Omega 6 we need. Then for Omega 3 we need fish oil supplements and flax oil if possible.

A great discussion of this as it pertains to IBD is found in the book "The New Eating Right for a Bad Gut"

http://www.amazon.com/New-Eating-Ri...r_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200475974&sr=8-12

Also this link has some info on Omega 3 Omega 6 balance and how it causes disease

http://www.omega3sealoil.com/Chapter3_1.html

Can a mod remove the last post. I can't belive people are using this site intended for people suffering this horrible disease, for such kind of stuff!!!!!

Done... I don't know Mike Yarmos current whereabouts, but I'll PM to see if there's anyway he can block this sort of garbage... The thought that crossed my mind (didn't take long, was travelling thru empty space) was wondering if ALL new users were restricted/limited to just posting plain ASCII text.. no embedded links or images, viewers, etc., allowed UNTIL they achieved full member status. I don't know if this forum program will allow such restrictions, OR if the general membership would tolerate restricting new members in that manner. I would welcome any feedback/input on this from the members here.

Hi all,

We are likely going to be implementing some changes to ensure that this offensive material does not find its way into our community any more. We will keep you all updated.

Please continue to report any posts that do not meet the rules of this forum.

Thanks for your help.

-Michael

Kev said:

Excellent question... I am not taking any Omega 6 supplements, but never gave a moments thought about naturally occuring sources of Omega 6.. Like, the eggs I eat are Omega 3 laden... and it also occurs in deep, cold water fish (like salmon, or halibut - but they are hi in fat, and I'm on a low fat diet, so I don't eat them)..

Anyone spotted any foods that are naturally or artifically high in Omega 6???

Click to expand...

Omega 6 fats are found in vegetable oil, soy, corn oil etc. The problem is the ratio of Omega 6 to 3 in our diet. It should be like 2:1 or 1:1 but the food industry has thrown that ratio out of whack. Processed food is the worst culprit as it all has some form of modified corn or soy. The food industry has even affected the beef and chicken by feeding them grain. A cow that is grass fed would have a high omega 3 content. Fat is very important to our diet and should not be avoided.
Fatty fish is a great source of omega 3 (which has anti-imflammatory properties)
and should be eaten often or supplemented with fish oil. Many cultures that eat a lot of fish do not suffer from the many chronic diseases that come with the western diet.

Mazen said:

For optimal health the ratio of Omega 6 to Omega 3 intake should be 4:1. But for people with inflammatory diseases like Crohn's, the ratio is recommended at 2:1 or even 1:1.

Now for good sources of Omega 6, it's naturally found in eggs (Omega 3 ones provide a ratio of 1:1), olive oil, lean meats (chicken and beef) and in small amounts in some leafy vegetables (not much tolerated by us unfortunately!). This should be enough for us.

Note that if you take way much Omega 3 over Omega 6 this is not healthy also. The main issue is the ratio between them....

A very Good Book on the subject is "The Omega Diet"

http://www.amazon.com/Omega-Diet-Li...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200389636&sr=8-1

Click to expand...

All fats are triglycerides (sp??) so it's a combination of mono, poly and sat.
I would not consider olive oil a good source of omega 6 because it has a healthy ratio to omega 3. (1:1 I believe). The fact that our meat is higher in Omega 6 is not a good thing. It is healthier to buy grass fed or pastured meat...which I can not find in any grocery store here. Healthier to buy from local farmers.
Why is it unhealthy to have too much omega 3. I have heard about that book...who wrote it?

Not many people get "too much" omega 3's. I've never even heard of such a risk (I'm sure it exists, you can have too much of anything) in all my nutrition/bodybuilding reading...so I'm betting it's hard to do.

BWS1982 said:

Not many people get "too much" omega 3's. I've never even heard of such a risk (I'm sure it exists, you can have too much of anything) in all my nutrition/bodybuilding reading...so I'm betting it's hard to do.

Click to expand...

Ya, that's what I was thinking. There are many cultures that thrive on a mainly fish diet. I would be more worried about mercury levels than too much omega 3.
By the way if anybody is interested a good fish oil is nurta sea hi potency herring oil. It is flavored with lemon so it doesn't taste bad. Epa is 1500 and Dha is 500
per tsp. (I think that correct..I don't have the bottle in front of me). I have also read you do not have to worry about mercury levels in fish oil caps or liquid.

Just to add to the confusion... a 'brand name' (won't name it for fear of lawsuits) multi-vitamin maker is now advertising Omega 3 - 6 - 9... What the heck is that?

If there's omega 3, and omega 6, I'm just ASSuming there's got to be Omega 9...

I'm going to buy some enteric coated Omega 3 and call it a day, the others would be in some journal if I didn't already get enough of them.

There is an Omega 9. That's the most plentiful in the US/NA/developed diets....the Omega 3 are the healthiest/most deficient, Omega 6 are the next healthiest/quite common, and then come the Omega 9. I can't remember why they went 3, 6, then 9 (in that order/by that counting convention), I guess sometimes I do forget some of this stuff...As for those Omega 9's...think the healthy portion of fats in soybean oils etc...which is why we get plenty of them. Good rule of thumb: the lower the "Omega #" the healthier, more rare it is in our diets.

Basically we get plenty of 9, a good amount of 6. Omega 3 (especially from fish, although flax is still good too) is the one we should supp with. If I recall, they're all forms of Polyunsat. fats....

Check this link for more info on Omega 3

http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/humannutrition/whatfact.htm

But the strange thing is that the guidlines nutritional scientists put for us are a ratio of about 10:1 Omega 6 Omega 3 !!!!!!!!

As for sides effects of too much Omega 3 it is stated that:

The Food and Nutrition Board cautions that high intakes may impair the immune response and cause prolonged bleeding. While these side effects are rare with foods, their likelihood is greater with supplement use such as fish oil capsules and flaxseed oil.


But I think impairing the immune response is a good thing for us with Crohn's or not???

I've done a considerable amount of reading and I don't really trust the nutrition scientists...They are the same people that said butter is not healthy because of sat. fat and then created transfat that years later we find out is much worse.
My guess as to why the ratio they give is so high is that all processed food (a creation of the scientists) is high in omega 6 because everything has some form of corn/soy in it. (I try and avoid processed food as much as possible and feel much better for it.)

Weellllll, not necessarily. Those of us on LDN are trying to get our immune system to work properly.. in order to reverse the effects of when it was going haywire. I was also surprised at the warning to diabetics... it could lower glucose tolerance. I wonder what effect/impact this might have on us who got 'bad bugs' inside of us who LOVE sugar. And, the other warning/complication (and this one really irks me to find out NOW) is that folks taking anti-coagulants LIKE ASA, and I'm ASSuming this includes 5-ASA, have to watch for INCREASED bleeding... Sheeesh, I think back to when my bleeding was totally out of control; AND all the extra Omega 3 I was packing into my system. A crazy cycle of thinking... "welll, I'm losing all this blood; so I have to pack in the vitamins N supplements to help replace what my bodies losing, including those Omega 3s"

Now, I haven't had enuff time to mull over all of this new info, but I'm thinking it looks (at first glance) that maybe, just maybe, Omega 3 is another of those fad ideas that are GOOD for most folks; but if you have bleeding situations N take ASA (like a lot of us do) THEN perhaps it isn't the best thing to put in your diet.

Well now I am totally confused. If I get some time I will try and dig up some research. Seeing I am not on meds I am going to continue supplementing for the anti-inflamatory properties. :confused2:

I have read, but not researched, that Omega six is high in foods such as beef because of how they are fed. Beef that are grazed on grass as they would have in the past are lower in Omega six than beef raised on industrial farming methods.

I am of the opinion that the more basic your food is, the better it is for you. I do not think there is any research indicating anything else.

I never believed the butter thing either. I eat a lot of it. I also eat a lot of Eggs. I think they are one of the healthiest foods there is. I eat fat with no regard either. Your body needs and uses cholesterol. Your brain in particular needs a lot. From what I have gathered from my own investigating is that blocked arteries and heart disease are largely from artificial fats, "vegetable oils" and low grade inflammation of the arteries. This inflammation is something for us Cronies to be concerned about.

I would like to know at what point fish oil would produce a marked effect on blood thickness? To the best of my knowledge, it makes blood more slippery, preventing hyper coagulation. I do not think it works in the same manner as a true thinning agent like aspirin or Coumadin. I would guess that mega doses would be needed to even begin to create a problem situation.

Of course, if you are already on a thinning agent, much more thought must be put into using Fish Oil, at least in large doses.

I had good luck using antiinflammatory supplements, but not perfect results. One thing it did not resolve was the sensation in my terminal illium. It did keep my big D under control most of the time, and if I missed taking them it was obvious.

My current treatment has ended the Illium sensation and all symptoms but one. I still have some sensation in my surgical area. Hopefully just scar tissue.

I still take normal doses of Krill Oil and lower doses of Turmeric and Ginger, but if I miss them now, I cannot tell the difference. I only take one forth of what I used to.

Dan

D Bergy said:

I have read, but not researched, that Omega six is high in foods such as beef because of how they are fed. Beef that are grazed on grass as they would have in the past are lower in Omega six than beef raised on industrial farming methods.

I am of the opinion that the more basic your food is, the better it is for you. I do not think there is any research indicating anything else.

I never believed the butter thing either. I eat a lot of it. I also eat a lot of Eggs. I think they are one of the healthiest foods there is. I eat fat with no regard either. Your body needs and uses cholesterol. Your brain in particular needs a lot. From what I have gathered from my own investigating is that blocked arteries and heart disease are largely from artificial fats, "vegetable oils" and low grade inflammation of the arteries. This inflammation is something for us Cronies to be concerned about.

I would like to know at what point fish oil would produce a marked effect on blood thickness? To the best of my knowledge, it makes blood more slippery, preventing hyper coagulation. I do not think it works in the same manner as a true thinning agent like aspirin or Coumadin. I would guess that mega doses would be needed to even begin to create a problem situation.

Of course, if you are already on a thinning agent, much more thought must be put into using Fish Oil, at least in large doses.

I had good luck using antiinflammatory supplements, but not perfect results. One thing it did not resolve was the sensation in my terminal illium. It did keep my big D under control most of the time, and if I missed taking them it was obvious.

My current treatment has ended the Illium sensation and all symptoms but one. I still have some sensation in my surgical area. Hopefully just scar tissue.

I still take normal doses of Krill Oil and lower doses of Turmeric and Ginger, but if I miss them now, I cannot tell the difference. I only take one forth of what I used to.

Dan

Click to expand...

That is correct. It take s a whole lotta omega 3's to "Overdose" like that. Most people who take an approximate recommended dosage (off the bottle), or eat a lot of fish, are nowhere close to overdoing it, and even taking 2 or 3 times the recommended on the supp bottle is fine. It's very hard to overdo them. I wouldn't at all call it a fad supp, as there's too much science to it. It helps practically everything under the sun with your body, from the cardiovascular system to the nervous system to the GI, it's one of the most beneficial substances you can ingest, up there with antioxidants.

Nutritionists/Scientists did NOT create trans fats, they were formulated long ago before most people realize and shoved into food by the manufacturers for multiple reasons, the three biggest being cost, taste, and shelf life...and it was only recently that they were "discovered" by the science community in a wide manner. The problem with trans fats other than the fact that they are deadly and unnatural (well, there are some variations in dairy/beef naturally, but they have different isomers/chemical makeups), is that they are being pumped into our junk foods/processed foods at many many times the amounts they used to be. The snack/junk/processed food industry boomed a couple decades ago and so did partially hydrogentated usage as a result.

One thing to add is the mercury issue is more of something to watch for. I was going overboard with it and it's on the list of things that I've suspected has lead to flareups or issues in general. I was going with info I found in health magazines by dr's stating one thing, only to find out I was probably overdoing it with the tuna...having an average of 10 cans a week, where 3 is more of the limit. Salmon is a better choice to be honest, as it has less per serving.

Take your fish oil and flax, it's good for ya's.

Manufacturers are precisley the ones who employs these food scientist. The food industry is a multi million $ business and will hire whoever to increase their bottom line. Just look at the number of products on the grocery shelf now a days. (and I'm not talking about fruits and veggies). First everything was low fat, then low carb and now omega enchanced. They also employ psychologist to help market their product.

Dan you are correct about the increase of omega 6 in beef. By forcing them to eat corn it alters the fat ratios and not in a good way. Apparently cows are not naturally able to eat a lot of corn (like they do at a feed lot) but it is the quickest way too fatten them up. (not to mention the increase in antibiotics used) Industry doesn't care what it does to quality. Grass finished beef are naturally higher in omega 3 because it is found in leafy greens.

Yeah, my use of the term 'fad' was a poor choice. I didn't mean to imply that it (Omega 3) is a 'fad', per se. What I was trying to express was how something like Omega 3, or fibre... (which ordinarily are 'good' things) become 'hot topics'. or media darlings. Then suddenly they are 'hyped', and then get 'pumped' into EVERYTHING.

As for an OD.. Like, if one looks at the diets of... welll, traditional Eskimoes. I think it has a pretty hi level of Omega 3... And look how well they're doing. IBD isn't a hot topic with their docs. But, they've been eating that way for, welllll, countless generations. Your typical North American, European, etc., probably COULD tolerate, even fare much better by upping their levels of Omega 3's.. But us folks with IBD... taking 5 ASA, with extended inflammation, bleeding, etc.., how much/how little is.. appropriate, even safe, for us? Good question. Anyone see any info 'specific' to folks WITH those specific considerations?????

I'm not disputing the science behind Omega 3. Same as I wouldn't dispute the science behind fibre AND general health. Just saying that, possibly, for some of us... we have to take the 'standard' health stance about these things, and then look a little deeper; tread a little more cautiously. What is considered an overdose for a healthy person is possibly not the same for us in our little world

I have taken high doses of Fish Oil, Turmeric, and Ginger at the same time and not had any increase in bleeding, even though all of them have some blood thinning properties. Not that I ever had a lot of bleeding, but some from time to time. As with anything else, your individual condition will factor in to what you can take and how much.

I used these to bring my symptoms under control, and then scaled back a little once I was improved. If someone had a lot of bleeding, you would have to watch your reaction.

My amounts are now too small to really have any significant impact on my Crohn's or bleeding, but I do not need it for that purpose any more.

Tuna is about the worst for Mercury, and I think Albacore Tuna was the highest. I like Tuna but I have a hard time eating it anymore just because I know that.

With a mouth full of Mercury fillings, I really do not need any more Mercury in my body.

Apparently I can excrete it OK or I would probably be real sick by now. I have a person I know that has had virtually all teeth filled since childhood. She is retarded to an extent, and I am quite sure it is because of the enormous amount of Mercury she has been subjected to. Especially the large amount as a young child. They also would eat Tuna right out of the can. I never really put it together until a couple of years ago. Everyone else in the family has better teeth and no mental problems. She was normal at one time.

Dan

Wow they should sue.

dizzyd said:

Manufacturers are precisley the ones who employs these food scientist. The food industry is a multi million $ business and will hire whoever to increase their bottom line. Just look at the number of products on the grocery shelf now a days. (and I'm not talking about fruits and veggies). First everything was low fat, then low carb and now omega enchanced. They also employ psychologist to help market their product.

Click to expand...

I'm guess not understanding your point here...??

I guess I was more speaking on the actual science/nutritionists that are actually credible, not the "ones" who put claims onto the packagings. Pubmed, real studies, etc...the ones that are not in the pocket of Frito Lay, for example....

The fads you speak of like low fat, low carb, those were actually not started by the food industry, they just followed suit, they were started by dieticians/nutritionists trying to make a quick buck (well some had a good heart). Dr. Robert Atkins has had his own food company, for example, he wasn't employed by anybody. The low fat fad was a product of the beginning of the obesity epidemic a couple decades back, back when fats were supposedly ALL bad...also not started by any snack companies, as you can tell by the fact that they would have gone bankrupt. They were synonomous with fat, why come out with such destructive info?

They had to reformulate their top sellers late in the game ASAP to compete, if they were in charge of the directions the industry took, wouldn't they have just left the recipes the same they were in the 1970's, so they could just maximize profit? Why change things? Because they were adapting, indicating they didn't take the lead, the health/medical/nutrition field did. They begrudgingly kept coming out with 10 different cookies when they'd love to have just left the original alone....

The truth has always been that calories in/calories out is how it works, bottom line. There are other mechanics at work such as blood glucose levels (hence low carb took off), sat fat spreading a bad rap for all fats (because fat has the name "fat" hence it must be bad, right?, hence the low fat fad)....which is where these fads come from, so the concepts are not all BS, they're just twisted around so that they seemed like the magic bullet to solve obesity.

Manufacturers are trying to make a quick buck all the time, they'll follow where the nutrition findings currently go. They DO employ many nutritionists themselves, but not to the extent you speak of. It just seems you are claiming the entire nutritional field is in the food industries pocket, when most of it never said "oh, well chips are okay to eat now, they're reduced fat". Most real nutritionists still said avoid them, no matter what gimmick they're going with. I even read one book by a nutritionist who said "if it comes in a package, don't buy it", now THAT'S extreme. Where do you find a package-less diet???

Kev said:

Yeah, my use of the term 'fad' was a poor choice. I didn't mean to imply that it (Omega 3) is a 'fad', per se. What I was trying to express was how something like Omega 3, or fibre... (which ordinarily are 'good' things) become 'hot topics'. or media darlings. Then suddenly they are 'hyped', and then get 'pumped' into EVERYTHING.

As for an OD.. Like, if one looks at the diets of... welll, traditional Eskimoes. I think it has a pretty hi level of Omega 3... And look how well they're doing. IBD isn't a hot topic with their docs. But, they've been eating that way for, welllll, countless generations. Your typical North American, European, etc., probably COULD tolerate, even fare much better by upping their levels of Omega 3's.. But us folks with IBD... taking 5 ASA, with extended inflammation, bleeding, etc.., how much/how little is.. appropriate, even safe, for us? Good question. Anyone see any info 'specific' to folks WITH those specific considerations?????

I'm not disputing the science behind Omega 3. Same as I wouldn't dispute the science behind fibre AND general health. Just saying that, possibly, for some of us... we have to take the 'standard' health stance about these things, and then look a little deeper; tread a little more cautiously. What is considered an overdose for a healthy person is possibly not the same for us in our little world

Click to expand...

No, good point Kev. Fad isn't too bad a choice now that I think about what you meant, hot topic is perhaps more clear, but I see them putting flax even in cookies now. Vitamins in CocaCola??? WTH?

"How ironic, the western world won't eat enough fish, where do we put the flax doc?"

"Well underpaid assistant, we put it in what they ARE eating?"

"What ARE they eating?"

"Cookies"

It's kinda sad.

But I know what you mean, IBD'ers are the exception to so many dietary rules, like high fiber, tons O veggies, etc...who knows EXACTLY where we stand sometimes with all the mantras...

You're right I shouldn't group them all together...I certainly didn't mean to imply that they are all evil. I often refer to the Pubmed site...it's a great site. I guess the point I am trying to make is to be a little critical to the information they throw at us. For example who is paying for the research...they can make anything look good or bad. One year eggs are bad for you the next they are good for you. Science tends to look at individual parts instead of the whole. The food industry is too powerfull and can influence how this science is displayed for the general public. When they said we should eat less fat they were not allowed to say specifically eat less beef too much saturated fat is not healthy. The beef farmers wouldn't allow it. I guess my beef (no pun intended) is more with the industry and how they manipulate things for profit.
That made me think of the people who market Goji juice.
Apparently they had made some sort of claim that it can help cure cancer or something along that lines. Market Place did a show on it last year. They actually talk to the scientist that did the research and he said well yes I had some success
but it was in a petri dish not a human. He was not happy that the people were siting his findings that way. I am always skeptical of research, one must always dive deeper than just the conclusion

The problem is that certain ppl go overboard with anything they say. Eggs are high in cholesterol, well I won't eat any eggs. Fiber is good for you, I'm becoming a vegetarian.

As Aristotle said there is always a golden mean, and that is what you should strive for.

Jack Lalaine has a simple eating rule. If man makes it, don't eat it.

He is still kicking in his 90's. He appears to know what he is talking about.

Dan

dizzyd said:

You're right I shouldn't group them all together...I certainly didn't mean to imply that they are all evil. I often refer to the Pubmed site...it's a great site. I guess the point I am trying to make is to be a little critical to the information they throw at us. For example who is paying for the research...they can make anything look good or bad. One year eggs are bad for you the next they are good for you. Science tends to look at individual parts instead of the whole. The food industry is too powerfull and can influence how this science is displayed for the general public. When they said we should eat less fat they were not allowed to say specifically eat less beef too much saturated fat is not healthy. The beef farmers wouldn't allow it. I guess my beef (no pun intended) is more with the industry and how they manipulate things for profit.
That made me think of the people who market Goji juice.
Apparently they had made some sort of claim that it can help cure cancer or something along that lines. Market Place did a show on it last year. They actually talk to the scientist that did the research and he said well yes I had some success
but it was in a petri dish not a human. He was not happy that the people were siting his findings that way. I am always skeptical of research, one must always dive deeper than just the conclusion

Click to expand...

I agree completely.

Didn't know that about the Goji claims though...I've been meaning to try that stuff but it's so damn expensive.

McD's had some involvement I'd heard with this one guy who did an experiment like Morgan Spurlock did for his 30 days of McDonalds. This other guy did 30 days of McD's, but worked out intensely with weights/cardio, and lost a bunch of fat and put on a bunch of muscle. I never could get to the bottom on how reliable or accurate or even true the "counter-experiment" was (even though there was an entire article and before/after pics)...

True, but gotta be careful Dan, anecdotal examples are dangerous.

I'm annoyed by those who smoke and get arrogant about it, then add, well I know my relative so and so lived to be 75 and smoked a pack a day for 43 years....I always rebut with fine, but for every example you can name, I can name hundreds who died decades early in horrible agony on machines that kept them alive. Who wins?

But I still think the more natural, usually the better (to an extent).

Below are some interesting info on fish oil including cautions and drug interactions

http://209.196.51.230/ME2/dirmod.as...d=&id=18CBBC5D8E8C4B2E8A90456ADEB05754&tier=2

But they mention that:
High doses impair the body's ability to form blood clots, raising concerns that the supplements could cause internal bleeding. However, no such reaction was detected in a study of heart disease sufferers who took 8,000 mg of fish oil supplements in addition to aspirin (an anticoagulant).

Interaction is with below drugs; 5 ASA is not mentioned

fish oils - Drug Interactions

Warfarin
Fish oils may intensify the blood-thinning effect of warfarin, though conflicting research suggests that 3-6 grams per day do not significantly affect INR in patients taking warfarin. Internal or excessive bleeding may result. Use with caution.

Ticlopidine Hydrochloride
Fish oils intensify the blood-thinning effect of ticlopidine. Internal or excessive bleeding may result. Use with caution.

Norethindrone
Contraceptive drugs might interfere with the triglyceride lowering effects of fish oils.


Enoxaparin Sodium Injection
Fish oils intensify the blood-thinning effect of enoxaparin. Internal or excessive bleeding may result. Use with caution.

Dalteparin Sodium
Fish oils intensify the blood-thinning effect of dalteparin. Internal or excessive bleeding may result. Use with caution.

Aspirin
Fish oils intensify the blood-thinning effect of aspirin. Internal or excessive bleeding may result. Use with caution.

Ethinyl Estradiol
Contraceptive drugs might interfere with the triglyceride lowering effects of fish oils.

Levonorgestrel Implants
Contraceptive drugs might interfere with the triglyceride lowering effects of fish oils.

Clopidogrel Bisulfate
Fish oils intensify the blood-thinning effect of clopidogrel. Internal or excessive bleeding may result. Use with caution.

Dipyridamole
Fish oils intensify the blood-thinning effect of dipyradimole. Internal or excessive bleeding may result. Use with caution.

D Bergy said:

I have read, but not researched, that Omega six is high in foods such as beef because of how they are fed. Beef that are grazed on grass as they would have in the past are lower in Omega six than beef raised on industrial farming methods.

I am of the opinion that the more basic your food is, the better it is for you. I do not think there is any research indicating anything else.

I never believed the butter thing either. I eat a lot of it. I also eat a lot of Eggs. I think they are one of the healthiest foods there is. I eat fat with no regard either. Your body needs and uses cholesterol. Your brain in particular needs a lot. From what I have gathered from my own investigating is that blocked arteries and heart disease are largely from artificial fats, "vegetable oils" and low grade inflammation of the arteries. This inflammation is something for us Cronies to be concerned about.

I would like to know at what point fish oil would produce a marked effect on blood thickness? To the best of my knowledge, it makes blood more slippery, preventing hyper coagulation. I do not think it works in the same manner as a true thinning agent like aspirin or Coumadin. I would guess that mega doses would be needed to even begin to create a problem situation.

Of course, if you are already on a thinning agent, much more thought must be put into using Fish Oil, at least in large doses.

I had good luck using antiinflammatory supplements, but not perfect results. One thing it did not resolve was the sensation in my terminal illium. It did keep my big D under control most of the time, and if I missed taking them it was obvious.

My current treatment has ended the Illium sensation and all symptoms but one. I still have some sensation in my surgical area. Hopefully just scar tissue.

I still take normal doses of Krill Oil and lower doses of Turmeric and Ginger, but if I miss them now, I cannot tell the difference. I only take one forth of what I used to.

Dan

Click to expand...

Dan , you mentioned that your current treatment ended your Ilium sensation. I suffer from this all the time. so could you tell me what this treatment is? Thanks

OK, here's a general question, based on another of my infamous ASSumptions, but isn't 5-ASA just a 5 times concentrated form (hence stronger) of regular ASA with a buffered coating specifically designed to get it past the stomach and into the GI tract? Second question, if my first ASSumption is correct, then warnings pertaining to fish oil in conjunction with regular ASA are 5 times as relevant to us taking 5-ASA, aren't they? Mind you, I said 'warning'. This is not a general call to abandon taking one or the other, just something to heed if you combine them AND notice new or increased bleeding (just in case folks took it that way)

The sensation in my Ilium really bothered me mentally, since I knew my Crohn's was still active in this area, in spite of the antiinflamatory supplements.

I used Miracle Mineral supplement. I initially ignored this product as the name had scam written all over it. But when I needed a product that would kill bad bacteria and not kill off good bacteria or myself, I investigated it in depth.

I found out it was essentially nothing more than the chemical Sodium Chlorite. You mix this with a 10% citric acid solution and it produces an unstable chemical Chlorine Dioxide. Chlorine Dioxide is used to kill bacteria in hospitals and in water treatment plants. It is also used to bleach paper. I knew this was true because I work in a paper mill.

Initially I was concerned about the safety of using such a powerful industrial chemical in my body. But, after asking many questions and finding out it has never harmed anyone who had used it, I finally tried it out. I also found out that the exact same chemical has been used before in the product Dioxychlor. There is nothing else with these specific properties and it was the only thing that was likely to work.

I started slowly at the minimum dose. I am always cautious using something of this nature. At a certain dose I dumped tapeworms caused from flea exposure. Yes, I had cats and a dog with fleas a couple of years ago. I also had to quit for a few days as the bacterial killing aspect causes the big D until all the bad bacteria in the intestinal tract is eliminated. I did not want to dehydrate myself, and there is no harm in starting and stopping.

Then I resumed my treatment for six weeks. After the six weeks all of my symptoms were gone. No more big D either no matter how long I used it. If the Crohn's symptoms are caused by bacteria, this is what I would have expected, and it either was an extremely unlikely coincidence, or it did exactly what I thought it would. You can form your own opinion on this.

It certainly is not an approved treatment, but its bacterial killing ability is well documented in many other applications. I also have conferred with a couple of Chemists who have used this product and they were especially suspicious of using this internally since they know the nature of it. They both used it out of necessity and resolved bacterial or fungus related health issues that no other treatment would resolve.

It basically works the same as Ozone therapy, but works longer and is much easier to administer. Oxidation is the mechanism, and bacteria have no defense against oxidation, with few exceptions. The Lyme cyst form is one thing I suspect it does not work on. But that does not really pertain to Crohn's disease.

That is what I know about it, and I will say I have experienced its bacterial and virus killing ability on more than one occasion. But do your own research and make up your own mind. It never hurts to investigate.

I still have not heard of anyone who has been harmed by this treatment. I have heard of many people who have resolved problems they have had as long as thirty years. All of this evidence is anecdotal from user reports. If you do not place any importance on anecdotal evidence then this treatment is not for you.
My results are also anecdotal, but I guess I have to believe my own results.

Dan

Hi guys,

I would like to start on the Omega 3 Fish oil for a try. Can anyone suggest a good brand or the ones that you have been trying out and it helps? Is it sure the enteric coated ones are better than the softgels? How do we get to know our inflammatory level of our body? What is CRP ? Something to do with blood level? Sorry for asking. Don't know many things...

I just get whichever one is cheapest. I have several months worth I bought at Walmart for $10. If you're in the US, you can have SOME peace of mind from the FDA on production standards (doesn't mean no worries at all, but still...). I don't know much about any quality protocol in other regions of the globe.

I use Krill Oil fro Dr. Mercola's web-site. I think he also has Fish Oil. Krill Oil does the same thing as Fish Oil, in a slightly smaller dose.

I think CRP is C Reactive Protein. It is something that appears in your blood when a higher level of inflammation is present in the body.

It is thought that the enteric coated ones get farther down the intestines where it may do more good. This is not proven to my knowledge.

The Krill Oil I use is not Enteric coated. If they had such a thing, I would try it out.

Dan

I found your research on the Neptune Krill Oil so interesting as i not only suffer from the crohn's but have a cholesterol problem that is hereditry. I am going to look into it further and try and get some because i think it will not only help me but it will also help my sister who has Lupus as well as high cholesterol. She suffers so badly with the lupus and if i can find something to help her i will. Again thank you i will keep you posted.

I would recommend looking into Low Dose Naltrexone for any autoimmune disease such as Lupus. It has been discussed many times here before.

I had some blood work done through my employer a few months ago. I was checking for any adverse efects that the Chlorine Dioxide I was taking, might cause. I had no indication that it was affecting anything.

The interesting part was my cholesterol was way, way, better than the last bloodwork I had done two years prior. I was taking several supplements, and was much healthier in general since the last blood screen, so I cannot say what made the difference. It could have been the Krill Oil, but I do not know. It was a surprising result to see these number change so dramatically.

Dan

My sister is currently taking methatrexate and a number of other drugs for the lupus. In a way her and i can relate to each other as we both have a auto immune disease, she was dxd about 2 year ago. After she was dxd she kept saying that maybe i had the same because for year's i have had trouble with a low immune system, the only difference between her and i was i had bad problems with my bowel and she didn't. The only way i was dxd was because once again i was bleading from the bowel, and i realy pushed this time for anwser's.

An idea I have been playing with is that many of these autoimmune diseases are actually he same disease manifesting itself in different ways.

An faulty immune response results in bacteria or even several strains of bacteria taking roost in the body. Depending which ones you are more susceptible to, or are exposed to, determines which ones are taking over your body.

The bacterial load and strain of bacteria determines which of the many diseases you will have. MS, Chronic Fatique, Lupus, Celiac, Crohn's etc, are just the end results of the faulty immune response.

It is just a hypothesis, but there is some kind of relationship between these that is yet to be explained. It is hard to believe that I have Crohn's and my son has Hidradenitis Superrativa, and my daughter has Celiacs, yet they are unrelated diseases.

I still think treating the faulty immune response is of primary importance. Killing off the bacteria is a close second in importance. This is exactly how I treated my Crohn's, and it is working perfectly so far.

Dan