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Conditions that mimic crohns

my little penguin

Moderator
Staff member
So while I wait for DS scope in the am
And being stuck inpatient
Anyone know what conditions mimic crohns that also have hypermobility and rectal prolapse .
Gi( not ours ) mentioned talking to our Rheumo about it but didn't say what ....?

Cause it's never simply with DS ....
 

crohnsinct

Well-known member
Aw hun! Don't go there! Let the docs earn their keep. You just concentrate on keeping yourself nourished and rested and ready to hear what it is they tell you tomorrow. Cheer up your boy and keep him happy. Catch up on some movie watching.

We have all been there and have a list as long as our arms of what things could be and certainly understand not wanting to be patient and wait for the docs to figure things or catch up to us:stinks:

:kiss:
 
Our hospital cafeteria is awesome! My only complaint is that they close at 3 on weekdays and 2 on weekends.

Have you looked into Ehlers-Danlos syndrome? Hypermobile joints and rectal prolapse are very common with that disorder. I know CVID and EDS sometimes go hand in hand. Has he had thorough immune testing done? Immune deficiencies are often misdiagnosed in the early stages. Also, people with immune deficiencies are more likely to develop IBD and other autoimmune conditions.

All of this is very confusing and we are still wanting more concrete answers for our girl. Hugs to you during this process!
 
The only thing that pops into my mind, though not directly related to prolapse, is Celiac disease.

But I like CIC's advice better. Just chill and enjoy some time with your boy.
 
:voodoo:I hate ibd and the way it is so different for everyone one.
It makes no bloody sense to me. One minute you think all is well ( kind of:eek:) and then the scope tells ya something different. :voodoo:


Hugs, hang in there.:heart:
 
MLP!
I was thinking exactly what dancemom said. Some kind of immune disorder that IBD can be a secondary diagnosis. Also I don't know much about it but mitochondrial disorders can have a lot of GI involvement from what I understand of the people I know who have them.
Anyway I agree don't go there yet. One step at a time.
I don't remember though has he had a complete immune workup?
 
This is the exact reason we went to Mayo.
We learned a lot about EDS at Mayo and talked to one of the genetics leading the research efforts. They want her to be closer to 10 before they say for sure.
Both her GI and Rheumy know the possibility is there...... I hope to their wrong.
 
I'm only seeing a tab page for your link, my little penguin? Is it EDS they think probable? The hypermobility type or one of the other types?

Hope you get some answers soon?
 

my little penguin

Moderator
Staff member
Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Hypermobility Type: An Underdiagnosed Hereditary Connective Tissue Disorder with Mucocutaneous, Articular, and Systemic Manifestations
Marco Castori
Division of Medical Genetics, Department of Molecular Medicine, San Camillo-Forlanini Hospital, Sapienza University, Circonvallazione Gianicolense, 87, 00152 Rome, Italy

Received 11 September 2012; Accepted 14 October 2012

Academic Editors: B. Amichai and A. Zalewska

Copyright © 2012 Marco Castori. This is an open access article distributed under the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original work is properly cited.

Abstract

Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, hypermobility type, constituting a phenotypic continuum with or, perhaps, corresponding to the joint hypermobility syndrome (JHS/EDS-HT), is likely the most common, though the least recognized, heritable connective tissue disorder. Known for decades as a hereditary condition with predominant rheumatologic manifestations, it is now emerging as a multisystemic disorder with widespread manifestations. Nevertheless, the practitioners’ awareness of this condition is generally poor and most patients await years or, perhaps, decades before reaching the correct diagnosis. Among the various sites of disease manifestations, skin and mucosae represent a neglected organ where the dermatologist can easily spot diagnostic clues, which consistently integrate joint hypermobility and other orthopedic/neurologic manifestations at physical examination. In this paper, actual knowledge on JHS/EDS-HT is summarized in various sections. Particular attention has been posed on overlooked manifestations, including cutaneous, mucosal, and oropharyngeal features, and early diagnosis techniques, as a major point of interest for the practicing dermatologist. Actual research progresses on JH/EDS-HT envisage an unexpected link between heritable dysfunctions of the connective tissue and a wide range of functional somatic syndromes, most of them commonly diagnosed in the office of various specialists, comprising dermatologists.

From:

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/isrn/2012/751768/


Clash
Haven't talked with any of his docs yet
Just the floor gi said he wanted our permission to discuss DS history with DS's Rheumo about the connection of hypermobility /crohns/rectal prolapse /constipation etc...
 

my little penguin

Moderator
Staff member
IMO don't think it really matters if they can explain
DS by eds since there really isn't a treatment per say it's just a syndrome
 
Ok so hypermobility type. And yes but at least if you know EDS hypermobility type then you will have the knowledge of other problems if they arise.

There are a lot of EDsers in my other group, adults and children(parents). They usually go ahead and request genetic testing for the other types since hypermobility can go along with all of them and also since unlike this type they can be genetically tested for. I'm assuming the testing is especially warranted if symptoms of the other types occur. It seems the classifications were only recently nailed down.

I hope you find some answers soon and that DS feels better soon.
 

Tesscorm

Moderator
Staff member
I know only what you've posted re EDS but I hope you get some clearer answers/direction soon.

EDS or not, knowing what you're dealing with will help. :ghug: But, I do hope a simpler explanation can be found!

Am thinking of you and hoping you soon get some clear direction! :ghug: :ghug:
 

my little penguin

Moderator
Staff member
Talked Rheumo
Thinks DS may have connective tissue disorder on top of Ibd and JSPA
Didn't specify which one
So ....
Now we wait ...
Hate new possibilities:voodoo::voodoo:
 

DustyKat

Super Moderator
Oh man mlp. Sending loads of hugs your way! :ghug:

Thinking of you and your lad. :heart:

Dusty. xxx
 

Tesscorm

Moderator
Staff member
I hope 'we wait' means that some testing can be done! That it's not simply 'wait and see'...

How is he feeling now?

It's tough not having a clear plan but, remember to try to take one day at a time. We all know that's incredibly tough sometimes but as was said above (I think), let the doctors do their job and try not to get buried under the weight of possibilities. Wish I could do more but lots of thoughts and hugs :ghug: :ghug:
 

my little penguin

Moderator
Staff member
Sorry for not being more clear Tess
The team of docs is going to meet and discuss DS to determine which connective tissue disorder they think he has ( mulitle disciplines) .
I assume testing will start after that
The "we wait " is our family waiting for the docs to figure out which one or ones /type best fits him then testing Prior to dx
Once he has a dx then we can get a treatmebt plan
Also plan to use the DNa results from 23&me to see which ones he is at higher risk for
To reduce the time to figure it out since it was dead on for his crohns and JSpA
 

crohnsinct

Well-known member
Unfortunately there are over 200 connective tissue disorders including eds
That's a lot of googling! Let's see if we all take 10 or so I would say we would have this thing fully researched in an hour! No one googles faster than our gang!

Breathe MLP! This is a daunting one. Let the docs do their thing and be patient...do you need me to teach you patience:ylol:
 
If you can manage to get a mycoplasma test, it could rule that infection in or out.

I do not know if it is typically part of Crohns or not, but it appears to be part of my Crohns.

Dan
 

my little penguin

Moderator
Staff member
Carol
Someone dropped the ball
So the DNA testing didn't get sent till last week
Should have results on March :(

He has a dx of hypermobility from Rheumo as well as arthritis
 

my little penguin

Moderator
Staff member
Sent to Emory to look at a slew of diseases that mimic crohns
Or happen in early onset crohns or immunodeficiency etc...
Don't know the extent just that it covers a wide array of things
 

my little penguin

Moderator
Staff member
23&me is only snp so just a snip of the DNA
Only showed one or two snp
Out of 10000 for EDS not a strong indicator
The testing he is having done is full exome so more detailed
And more accurate
 

CarolinAlaska

Holding It Together
That's great. J's 23&me is still pending. I don't know if they'll do more genetic testing or not. I'm thinking of requesting a referral to a geneticist in Chicago who specializes in hypermobility syndrome. He's in the same location as J's GI.
 

my little penguin

Moderator
Staff member
We were told by Rheumo type iii hypermobility ( common in jspa ) would not change treatment - just exercise Types given
Only the scary ones type 4 is it of concern since the treatment is more than pt
 
23&me is only snp so just a snip of the DNA
Only showed one or two snp
Out of 10000 for EDS not a strong indicator
The testing he is having done is full exome so more detailed
And more accurate
Our Immunologist mentioned genetic testing as our next step if the current labs don't provide answers. She didn't specify a test, and honestly genetic testing is rather foreign to me. Are they thinking your son may have something other than Crohn's? Something in addition? Our Immunologist said she does not like to order genetic testing and only does as a last resort sort of thing. Has me curious....
 

Maya142

Moderator
Staff member
We were told the same about hypermobility - PT will help and that kids with arthritis can have it.

We have only done the 23 and me tests and I thought they were very interesting. However, three specialists (including one very famous researcher) have told us to take all the info with a grain of salt because of the way the genetic analysis is done - something about not taking into account gene interaction? I don't know really, it was too science-y for me.

But anyway, it was cool and I'm glad we did it.
 

CarolinAlaska

Holding It Together
So, I got a note back from the rheumy today. He says she has hypermobility syndrome and is not sure what else, if anything, she may have because it may be masked right now with it controlled on 6MP and prednisone. He is going to let me know when he gets all her labs and xray reports in. I'm thinking about starting a thread specific for hypermobility syndrome and crohn's. It seems that there is a connection.
 

Maya142

Moderator
Staff member
This is from the Spondylitis Association of American magazine:

Besides arthritis with inflammation, patients with IBD can have other reasons for joint pain and arthritis. IBD patients can be more hypermobile (very flexible) which may lead to joint injury and pain. Patients with or without IBD can develop osteoarthritis – arthritis as a result of wear and tear. Though this can happen from the arthritis associated with the IBD after long bouts of inflammation, these are more commonly not thought to be inflammatory and are treated conservatively with pain control and physical therapy. Occasionally, the arthritis is severe enough to require joint replacement – especially in the hips and knees. This procedure can dramatically improve quality of life in patients who have joints with severe damage. Finally, patients with chronic disease may also develop a widespread pain syndrome called Fibromyalgia, which is not immune mediated or associated with inflammation, but can be very disabling and is treated with regular exercise, cognitive behavioral therapy and occasionally pharmacologic therapy.
 
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