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Crohn's Disease Forum » General IBD Discussion » Crohn's after antibiotics, anyone else?


 
11-20-2009, 06:08 PM   #1
g_1988
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Crohn's after antibiotics, anyone else?

*fixed* This post won't apply to all of you, and maybe none of you. Sorry.

Hi,

In 2007 I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease. It all began when I was given some antibiotics for a cyst on my face. I wanted my GP to excise it but he said he'd rather try antibiotics first.

One of the side effects of those antibiotics was diarrhea. The second day after being on antibiotics I started getting diarrhea... okay, that's normal. A week later, still there. Okay, it'll start dying down soon 'cause I'm off the meds now ... two weeks on and I was back to the doctor. He said try some yoghurt and it might help. About five weeks later I went back to see a different doctor because my GP didn't seem concerned.


The other doctor said "sounds like inflammatory bowel disease". I was thinking "what?! No... no it's something to do with the antibiotics I've taken". She said "no, they can't cause Crohn's." and I thought, oh, okay then, you're the doc.

Anyway, she refered me to a gastroenterologist, I explained to himwhat had happened and he seemed to think it was just a... get this... "coincidence". I was extremely upset at the fact that this was passed off as a coincidence. I know my body and I know what happened... those antibiotics did something to me and now I have Crohn's disease. I took them, got diarrhea, got diagnosed with Crohn's.

Anyway, I am ranting here. Up until a few months ago I've always just listened to my specialist. I've never brought up the antibiotic thing with him. It has taken this long for me to get a grip on what's happening to me, to change my diet and lifestyle, try natural alternatives and see what I can do for myself instead of hanging on the doctor's every word. As much as natural supplements help, they're still not a cure.

Apparently there's a lot of convincing medical literature on Crohn's and candida. Lots of people apparently go on to develop Crohn's or other IBDs after antibiotic treatment. I've not done much research on this, but I will be doing as much as possible on this and I will be reporting back any findings (both for and against) on this.

I am still absolutely 100% convinced those antibiotics did something to me. I know they didn't CAUSE the disease, but they opened the door and in came Crohn's.

I've also been finding out that there's another disease in livestock called Johne's disease, very similar to Crohn's, but the cause it a bacterial infection caused by M. paratuberculosis. There is a lot of medical literature on M. paratuberculosis and Crohn's disease, too. Look it up.


Anyway, rant over and what I want to ask you guys is this: has this happened to any of you aswell? Taken some antibiotics and then got Crohn's? Or taken any medication that led to the development of Crohn's/IBD.


Please reply if you have because I would like to talk to you!

Even it hasn't happened to you, feel free to post anyway.
11-20-2009, 07:57 PM   #2
CrohnieCarolyn
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Just before I started having symptoms of Crohns - the diarrhea, cramping etc. I was on antibiotics for recurring yeast infections. I wonder if my immune system went wacky allowing the infections to keep coming back or if the antibotics screwed the immune system up - anyway, not long after my third round of antibiotics (I had hardly ever taken them in my life) I got Crohns...makes you wonder...
11-20-2009, 08:00 PM   #3
NatalieMT
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I have the same theory over how my problems started. February 2008 I got this awful tooth abcess and just went on course after course of antibiotics, I think they were Amoxicillin and Metronidazole. The D symptoms started in June 2008 then the bleeding and pain followed, I lost the tooth in August 2008 after extensive root canal treatment which unfortunately failed. I can understand D being associated with antibiotics but maybe not my other symptoms, not sure what to think there.

I mean it does seem like a massive coincidence, I'm just not sure though as nothing can be proven. All I know is I was pretty much fine prior to those events and only a few months later I wound up in hospital for weeks on end and was diagnosed with Crohn's officially.
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11-20-2009, 10:52 PM   #4
g_1988
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CrohnieCarolyn,

That's interesting. Candida is a form of yeast... maybe it really did have something to do with it. Did you talk to your specialist about it?

I'm seeing mine on the 14th of December and I am bringing this up with him and demanding to be checked for bacterial/yeast overgrowth.

What gets me is that no avenue has ever even been tested. No checks for any kind of infection or ANYTHING!

I see it like this:

1. No Crohn's and no other health problems.
2. Take drug which will kill all bacteria, including intestinal bacteria.
3. Get diarrhea.
4. Diarrhea never goes.
5. ... No check for any kind of bacterial/micro organism problem? Just dose up on roids and immune suppressors.

I had byopsies taken after my first colonoscopy, but they were from my colon and apparantly my Crohn's is affecting the ileum. The colonoscopy didn't even show inflammation, they only found ulcers (they couldn't get in far enough, I think).

Anyway, post more thoughts. .
11-21-2009, 02:38 AM   #5
CrohnieCarolyn
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I did do the pooping in the test tubes to check for any bacterial organism problems before they found the Crohns and when I did bring up the yeast/antibotic theory my doctor poo pooed it - no pun intened...interesting theory but until we know more that is all it will be I guess. I also wonder when I went to Mexico years ago and picked up a nasty bug that left me with Montazuma's revenge if that had anything to do with it but again the doctors don't know enough yet ...It is like - did the chicken or egg come first - the bacterial invader or the immune system going wacky allowing the bacteria to run rampant...and so the debate continues...let me know if you find anything more out or have any more ideas...
11-21-2009, 08:11 AM   #6
BWS1982
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George? It said George a bit ago... the alkaline/acid guy?...Err...

Anyways, I've been shushed about the Minocycline I was taking for acne being an ignition factor in the development (read: NOT cause, but awakening, if you will) of Crohn's Disease for me. I want answers and often point fingers for them. I took it in 2006, summer, to be precise, and then a couple months later I started the saga that I know today as the 3+ years (minus 4.5 months of remission) in hell.

I read in the side effects in the accompanying literature that a potential one was "colitis" and they told me (two of my GI's out of 6, but they were the only 2 I've asked thus far) that it's a "different type" of colitis, that it is not a chronic issue, it's not supposed to be Ulcerative Colitis, just "colitis" meaning inflammation in the colon. They said if I got "that version" then it would have resolved itself by now and not developed this way.

Here's what I still proclaim towards certain adamant sectors of science now: You can't cure Crohn's, you debate amongst your elite guru's on what causes it, or where the cure will be found. Speculation and positing has been out of control since 1932 when Burrill Crohn put the word out on this damn thing. So, with such a broad and enigmatic landscape to cover, it seems, how are you so sure what DIDN'T cause it?

The immune system is far from understood, as is IBD, so the void of information is too gaping to be so concrete on such ambiguous "standards". I am not saying this Minocycline started my Crohn's but I got symptoms 2 months after being on it, and my Crohn's Disease has been very responsive to antibiotic treatment thus far (Cipro, flagyl, Levaquin), more so than with Remicade or Cimzia, actually. The timing is very suspect. Coincidence? Perhaps. Clue? Perhaps as well.
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11-21-2009, 03:11 PM   #7
saidinstouch
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Just food for though we have 10^13 human cells in our body and 10^14 bacterial cells in our body. We are more bacteria than we are human, so antibiotics don't actually kill anywhere near every bacteria in our body. A more reasonable theory is that we are lacking certain subsets of bacteria that are an important factor in our normal functioning and can lead to crohns disease. Our bodies and the bacteria have a high level of crosstalk that can be observed in how bacteria make proteins that synthesize their own antibiotics, and these proteins take more effort to produce than the ribosome itself (one of the absolute most complex and important proteins in the body that evolution clearly selects for). It would make sense if our lack of different bacterial populations could lead to missing signals for proper immune function. It could also explain why different segments of the crohns community can have different symptoms and different treatment responses. Unfortunately, the implication of this is that our ability to decipher the problem is that much more complex than it was even a few years ago.

If you are interested in learning more about this lookup Michael Fishbach at UCSF. He is a new professor here and his research is amazing.
11-21-2009, 03:52 PM   #8
autumn_rose
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I was not on any antibiotics any time closely prior to developing Crohn's, but I have some theories as well. I had my gall bladder removed, which I was told could cause IBS. So when the bouts of bathroom-runs ensued, I thought it was normal. Obviously not the case. But I wonder if having my gall bladder removed somehow opened the doors to developing crohn's? I have talked to someone else that also developed crohn's after gall bladder removal. Anyone else?
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11-21-2009, 04:25 PM   #9
D Bergy
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I think the Fluoroquinolone group of antibiotics possibly could cause the disease since the fluorine weakens the immune system somewhat. It may only bring you to a tipping point for a disease you were well on the way of developing.

Since antibiotics do not discriminate between good and bad bacteria, who knows what effect the wholesale killing of many strains of beneficial bacteria has?

Antibiotics may or may not be able to cause the disease, I certainly do not know one way or another. I think I can safely say that based on how many reports of this chain of events I have seen, that they play a role in bringing on symptoms.

Dan
05-26-2011, 04:22 PM   #10
jenpuckett
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were any of you eating yogurt while taking or after taking antibiotics? i did not know to do this and wonder if the antibiotics lead to crohn's. or not replenishing the good bacteria. wish i would have known to do this.
05-26-2011, 04:32 PM   #11
D Bergy
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I think another possibility here is that Crohn's symptoms are brought on by antibiotic use, but the MAP bacteria is acting up because some of it is being killed by the antibiotics.

I have been doing a lot of experimentation on the MAP bacteria lately using unconventional treatments. I believe I accidentally disturbed the MAP bacteria a couple of months ago and this caused my flare.

I am not 100% sure of this, but I have several indications that it is likely the MAP bacteria and I can repeat it. It does cause me a lot of trouble when I do.

Dan
05-26-2011, 04:41 PM   #12
RFarmer
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This is what happened to me. I was on Ceftin and Flagyl, then Cipro and Flagyl for a bronchial tract infection... A few weeks later, BOOM. I'm sick.
05-26-2011, 05:23 PM   #13
soretum
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wow interesting thread....
I travelled thru south america for 3 months late 2008, suffered with altitude sickness pretty badly, constant diarrhoea thru Bolivia and Peru, stopped once we were in chile and at sea level....my guts was never the same after that, suffered extreme bloating and discomfort and eventually mucous for two years until the diarrhoea started in january this year....then my body started going haywire with erythema nodosum, scleritis, anaemia, boils blah blah blah....

I KNOW that this all started from there and am sure it has something to do with the upset of bacteria etc
05-26-2011, 07:15 PM   #14
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No, I was not on antibiotics before any of my symptoms started. I did not travel to anywhere before any of my symptoms started *hey Ive never ever left my own country*. I did not take any illegal drugs, I did not have sexual relations with any questionable peoples *monica lewinsky included*. I have eaten copious amounts of yogurt over the years and not had any symptoms. Ive been through major stress in my life and not had any symptoms.





One day totally out of the blue I got some stomach cramps. Three weeks later I got diarrhea. Three weeks after that I took two immodium and four days later I was in hospital with a camera up my ass and a crohns diagnosis.
05-27-2011, 01:18 AM   #15
butterfly
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I cant even read this while thread....

But yes. I was on antibiotics for an ear infection at 8 yrs old. Dxed with crohns shortly after. Had D and blood. What was the antibiotic in question? Mine was Augmentum. I feel like many others it opened a door for crohns and I honestly think doctors need to be way more careful in prescribing antibotics as a cure-all medication. It kills me to think thats why i have it
07-07-2011, 10:14 AM   #16
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Since early childhood, I have been loaded up with antibiotics, and developed dry skin patches. I had been to several skin dr's and they all had different opinons- eczema, psoriasis, and seborrheic dermatitis.
At 18 I had an abscess tooth, so I was loaded up with more antibiotics, and developed a fistula. I had some tests done, and had no diagnosis... I continued to live with dry skin patches, getting temporary relief from topical steroids, etc... until now.
I was hospitalized a few months ago for severe stomach cramping and vomiting (no diarrhea). I had every test done that could possibly be done, and was diagnosed with Crohn's (In the terminal Ileum).
The Dr. put me on mercaptopurine and pentasa, and within a week my dry skin was completely cleared up. It was bittersweet. No more dry skin, but now I have Crohn's.
Have had a couple flare-ups, treated with prednisone... the dr demanded that I go on Humira, but I didn't feel right about it. I cut sugar and lactose completely from my diet and am feeling pretty good at the moment. So Humira is out of the picture for now.
I have done an extensive amount of reading about Candida and Crohn's, and can't help but feel that the antibiotics allowed Candida to take control of my body.
I just started a Candida clense diet, and am taking supplements to help balance out the bacteria...
Since steroids & immune suppressants are known to feed the bad bacteria, should I stop taking mercaptopurine and pentasa?
I don't think I'll ever get the Candida under control until I do.
I don't know what to do here, all of these 'diets' have contradictions to each other, and I've completely alienated myself from the Dr.
Although they may help, I don't think meds are the answer to everything. Has anybody had success with stopping their meds and changing diet?
07-07-2011, 11:07 AM   #17
Dunbar
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Look for shannon's holistic journey,I haven't figured out how to add threads with my phone yet, sorry. She is having success with her program.
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07-07-2011, 03:29 PM   #18
chrisnsteph1022
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Yes, my first flare followed a course of antibiotics. I always blamed that for kicking it off, but not causing it. It just brought it out, imo.
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07-22-2011, 07:33 AM   #19
dannysmom
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I do not think antibiotics caused my son's initial problem ... but after trial treatment of broad-spectrum antibiotics for about 4 months ... my son's problem is now much worse. He has had diarrhea everyday & night for the last 7 months. I do think that Candida Albicans is contributing this ... but his doctor did not want to put him on anti-fungal medication. Has anybody been tested to see if Candida has overgrown in the digestive tract?
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07-22-2011, 08:24 AM   #20
Crohny
 
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Has anybody been tested to see if Candida has overgrown in the digestive tract?
I would like to know this too.

I scheduled an appointment with my dr. to run a bunch of tests (allergy, bacteria, vitamin deficiencies, etc) but I guess he thought I was crazy, and kept telling me I have Crohn's so he didn't understand why I wanted these tests- he then handed me all of my records and referred me to the best Crohn's specialist in the area.
I had a scheduled appoinment for a very specific thing, I don't understand why he turned me away like that!
06-09-2012, 02:07 PM   #21
Janaw1203
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In November 2011 my 16 yr old son was given antibiotics for brohncitis. And the rest of the story is identical to your story. He was hospitaized in Jan. And diagnosed. He is on Humira, and still has some flare ups. He has been on Humira for several years because at age 11 he was diag.w/ psoriatic arthritis. He was on Humira and then given antibiotics and then the next day started the diahrrea and that went on until hospitalized a month later for dehydration and tests. Still not 100% under control. May have to try Rimicade.
11-22-2012, 09:44 PM   #22
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I'm pretty new to this crappy disease, but yeah, it all started after spending a few months on Tetracyclines for acne of all things. Actually, it started about a week after I came off the meds in the summer. I don't buy that it's a coincidence at all.

Sorry for the bump guys, blame Google. :P
01-16-2013, 06:09 PM   #23
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This may put the "cat amongst the pigeons" but I have had crohn's for 15 years and have tried many medications. I am on Prednisolone 10mg and 1 weekly injection of Humira. 6 weeks ago I developed a chest infection and was given amoxacillin, which didn't clear it, then Tetrocyline. again didn't clear it. The third anti=biotic is Augmentin which is clearing the infection. The strange thing is my crohn's symptoms have improved dramatically , 2-3 BM's a day with normal stools and no pain. Even the fatigue is better and I am more alert and motivated than for a long time. Has anyone else had this experience? I see my GI this week and will certainly speak to him and see what he has to say about anti-biotics in the treatment for Crohn's
01-18-2013, 10:44 AM   #24
LondonSnow
 
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Lindy, that's interesting to hear. I guess the truth is nobody's 100% sure what causes Crohn's; although we treat it like an autoimmune condition, it's possible it's actually just a really persistent infection that our immune system never gives up trying to fight. I know in St. George's hospital here in London a researcher is investigating the possibility of it being caused by 'MAP bacteria'.
02-18-2013, 10:20 PM   #25
Little Cajun Girl
 
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WOW! I no longer feel like the Lone Ranger on this one! After 7 years in remission, I was given an antibiotic for an infection in my finger and WHAM! I am in full blown Crohn's arrest! Being the pro that I am, I told my doctor I am not playing around to bring out the big guns, the big guns aren't helping. I have had to give up clients that I work with for my business. I am down to three and barely keeping up. I float from day to day like I am in a fog. I am really hating it right now and have no idea what else to do. I am so tired of people asking me if I have tried "natural"....Guess what! I have tried everything except running through the rain naked! I feel myself getting to the edge where I have no patience because I am EXHAUSTED, have a constant headache because I am hungry but cannot eat......Just so tired! UGH I sound like the people I hate to talk to :/
02-19-2013, 02:31 PM   #26
Ihurt
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Are you taking a strong probiotic?? It is absolutely important to take high doses of probiotics when taking any antibitoic. Yougurt is NOT enough. YOu would have to eat gallons of it to get a sufficient amount of good bugs to replenish the good bacteria.

I really DO think antibiotics Can cause crohns. I have had to be on an antibiotic for over 5 years! I was taking a Low dose antibiotic(keflex) in order to keep away the horrible UTI's I was getting. Then I had to switch to low dose augmentin. I mean all my gut issues really took off after I got a stomach bug two years ago... I do take probiotics, have been for years now.I take one called 50 billion by renew life. I also take one called floragen3.

I think the whole role in antibitoics causing crohns is that antibiotics do deplete certain good bugs that allow for the bad bugs to grow out of control and they inflamme the intestines. That would explain why for some people when they take another antibiotic, well that helps kill off that bad bateria that is inflamming the gut and hence the symtpoms get better. But with bacteria, well everyone is different. Some people's bacteria is resistant to certain antibiotics so certain ones wont work to kill off that bad bacteria.

What shocks me is that WHY do the gastro docs not do testing to see how a persons flora is???? I had a natural doctor test mine three years ago. Mine was just ok. I mean with me being on a low dose antibiotic for so long, it has done it's damage. But I have been taking a lot of probitoics so maybe that is why I still had some good bugs in there. I am NOT doing well now though. I mean my gastro keep saying IBS. I dont think so. I think I have IBD or some other disease that is causing inflammation in my intestines. I am sure there are other diseases that can cause intestinal inflammation......

Sorry to go on like that, but yeah, I do think antibitoics can cause issues for some....







WOW! I no longer feel like the Lone Ranger on this one! After 7 years in remission, I was given an antibiotic for an infection in my finger and WHAM! I am in full blown Crohn's arrest! Being the pro that I am, I told my doctor I am not playing around to bring out the big guns, the big guns aren't helping. I have had to give up clients that I work with for my business. I am down to three and barely keeping up. I float from day to day like I am in a fog. I am really hating it right now and have no idea what else to do. I am so tired of people asking me if I have tried "natural"....Guess what! I have tried everything except running through the rain naked! I feel myself getting to the edge where I have no patience because I am EXHAUSTED, have a constant headache because I am hungry but cannot eat......Just so tired! UGH I sound like the people I hate to talk to :/
02-19-2013, 09:30 PM   #27
Stephen
 
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I did do the pooping in the test tubes to check for any bacterial organism problems before they found the Crohns and when I did bring up the yeast/antibotic theory my doctor poo pooed it - no pun intened...interesting theory but until we know more that is all it will be I guess. I also wonder when I went to Mexico years ago and picked up a nasty bug that left me with Montazuma's revenge if that had anything to do with it but again the doctors don't know enough yet ...It is like - did the chicken or egg come first - the bacterial invader or the immune system going wacky allowing the bacteria to run rampant...and so the debate continues...let me know if you find anything more out or have any more ideas...
If your doctor "poo poos" anything, get a new doctor.
02-20-2013, 06:56 AM   #28
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Hi All, I thought I might give my tuppence...

I was diagnosed with crohns in 2001 and after 3 major flares (D, vomitting, severe pain, fatigue, weightloss) and I have pretty much been in remission since a small bowel resection in 2003. I have been taking Azathioprine since then and it seems to keep me pretty well.

I had surgery in September 2012 - stricureplasty and it was done via laparotomy. I developed a wound infection and it took about 14/15 weeks for the wound to fully close. As part of the fight against the infection I took Metronidazole for 4 weeks, 4 times a day - quite a big/long dose.

Fast forward to Jan/Feb 2013 and I am now being treated with Entocort for a mini flare after displaying crohns symtoms for 6-8 weeks or so. However during the period of my surgery in 2012 I stopped taking Azathioprine for about 3 months.

So whether the antibiotics have contributed to the cause of this flare (my first in 10 years) or not, its very diffuclt to say, but its possible.

Luke
03-01-2013, 12:12 PM   #29
Lindy Lou
 
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Is there anyone out there who feels that anti biotics have helped their crohn's symptoms. After a week of Augmentum (for a chest infection) I felt so much better. Where can I go from here, don't think my GI will want to change any meds.While taking Augmentum I stopped methotrexate as it interacted with the anti biotic, I have not resumed the methotrexate and have not noticed any difference in my symptoms. Is there any danger giving up methotrexate suddenly.

Fatigue is my worst symptom


Pred: 7 mgs per day
Humira: 1 weekly injection
03-01-2013, 08:14 PM   #30
wildbill_52280
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Is there anyone out there who feels that anti biotics have helped their crohn's symptoms. After a week of Augmentum (for a chest infection) I felt so much better. Where can I go from here, don't think my GI will want to change any meds.While taking Augmentum I stopped methotrexate as it interacted with the anti biotic, I have not resumed the methotrexate and have not noticed any difference in my symptoms. Is there any danger giving up methotrexate suddenly.

Fatigue is my worst symptom


Pred: 7 mgs per day
Humira: 1 weekly injection
when your intestine is already healthy, antibiotics are bad.

but after the good bacteria is damaged and you are now unable to eliminate the bad bacteria from the environment, antibiotics can help you control the pathogens that were once controlled by good bacteria, causing a reduction in symptoms.
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