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01-08-2010, 09:58 PM   #1
Crohn's 35
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Canker sores in mouth.

I have tried to find another thread on canker sores or tongue sores, but couldnt find it. I have had cankers since I was a little girl and thought to be from acidic foods, like Oranges and tomatoes etc. Then I got them continually and thought it was from the antibotics. The sores dont always have a white spot on it, just the side and undertip of my tongue.

I know it is Crohn's related and I have used oral otc medicines and salt water. It hurts so bad at times I can't talk (like my husband is hurting over that ).

Does anyone get these and do they have any thing to help get rid of them as well as get rid of pain?? Ambasol works for 5 min then wears off... I am sick of getting them.
01-08-2010, 10:11 PM   #2
uab grad student
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I have used hydrogen peroxide diluted in water--I usually do few tbsp of peroxide diluted in a 12 oz glass of water. I swish it around and gargle, then spit it out. It burns for a minute but then goes away and the pain lessens.
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December 2009--Diagnosed with Crohn's

Current Crohn's meds: entocort, remicade, 6-MP

Other stuff: pulmicort, pro-air, celexa

Current supplements: ferrous sulfate, folic acid, Vitamin B12, Calcium, Vitamin D, women's multi-vitamin, Florastor probiotic
01-08-2010, 11:16 PM   #3
my.december
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I get terrible ulcers in my mouth... have for as long as I could remember. I agree with uab, I've always gargled with peroxide. Doesn't seem to do quite as much for the pain for me... maybe a little bit... but it does seem to help them heal more quickly.
01-08-2010, 11:38 PM   #4
tamesis
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I have no solution for you, but i do get them aswell. Not all the time, but occasionally.
i know there are rinses they give people who undergo Chemo for the sores they get, maybe there's something like that that might help? also, i know there's benzocaine rinses for sore throats....wonder if that would help if you just rinsed it like mouthwash instead of gargling?
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01-09-2010, 03:10 AM   #5
imisspopcorn
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Sorry Pen...Mouth sores are the worst. I have geographic tongue and started a thread on it. Although I don't get ulcers from it, it can cause sensitivity on certain areas. In the hospital we would use a concoction made of Benadryl, liquid lidocaine and maalox. We would have patients with mouth ulcers from chemo swish and swallow. It really helps relieve the pain....Here is an some info I found. I hope it helps.
http://theblondepharmacist.wordpress...n-of-anything/
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01-09-2010, 08:50 AM   #6
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Thanks everyone for your kind responses. I have the peroxide so I will give it a whirl, I will be going to see my pharmacist tomorrow and will also see what they recommend. Thanks IMP for the link! Very interesting.
01-09-2010, 09:53 AM   #7
Kacey
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That was my first noticeable symptoms. I had them so bad when I was diagnosed, that they spread through my entire mouth, tongue and esophagus. They kept giving me antacids, treating me for Gastric reflux!
I use a powerful mouthwash, like listerine. I was also given the recipe of using equal parts Scope & Listerine. I've never tried it, but read that is works. Before I was diagnosed, I went to my dentist about it (I had no clue) he gave me this ointment, it was brownish and gritty, I can't remember the name if it but it helped to shrink the size of the canker sore and helped heal it. Good luck, they are such a pain!! ARGH!
01-09-2010, 11:25 AM   #8
Peaches
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Sorry you get those Jetta - they are a pain in the butt!! I used to get tongue ulcers that were diagnosed as geographic tongue as well as psoriasis by a top doc over at Duke. My regular GP gave me a week's worth of diflucan (for yeast - one pill is the usual dose) to see if that helped, it didn't. I do not believe either of the other diagnosis were correct. They are a bit painful and start out small - then spread and get bigger and bigger. I have a crappy pic of them I'll post - it is old and blurry, but it is all I have. My GI tried Dukes Magic Mouthwash as well. I do not believe this really helped very much. It seemed to help the pain somewhat - but the spread still happened and the healing took just as long. May not be the same thing that you have...but just thought I'd put it here.

I am lucky in that within weeks of being on Remicade, after battling these things for YEARS - they just went away! I have not had one since - and am very happy about it!

Here is a link for the mouth wash:

http://mercypharmacy.wikispaces.com/...+MOUTHWASH.pdf

Here's the pic - one is on the front of my tongue - the other is on the right


Last edited by Peaches; 01-09-2010 at 11:29 AM.
01-09-2010, 07:22 PM   #9
Fog Ducker
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I asked my GI about cankers, cause I used to get them bad, he said its all related to the CD I guess it can cause ulcers anywhere from tip to tail.
I also use hydrogen proxide but i dont dilute it, I just take a shot of it and swish it in m mouth for a while and spit it out. Its kinda cool the way it fizzes up but tastes like crap! I dont think it helps with the pain but it does make them go away faster. I also make a consious effort not to touch them with my toung.

I tried a product called Zilactin-B a friend that works at a doctors office gave me some samples. Its basicly a gel that you apply to the cankers, It does a great job of numbing the pain, and also covers them so they dont hurt when you eat or anything. But I found that it would fall off or get ripped off after a couple hours, and i donno if its in my head or not but when it did come off I think it was taking any new growth with it. So I dont use it anymore.
01-09-2010, 10:38 PM   #10
Crohn's 35
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I have Zilactin-B and it works temporily, but I get them alot lately... Maybe cause I have been flaring since after Christmas...like right now I am in alot of pain, from gas bloat , and have no idea from what... Tramadol is needing to kick in real soon!

Peaches: that is sometime what my tongue looks like, mine are most on the side of my tongue....Hard to talk eh? LOL
01-10-2010, 03:35 PM   #11
pb4
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OUCH Peaches, I never really had much issues on my tounge but the roof of my mouth would get really big and deep ulcers on it and it was super painful too, quite a burning feeling....when I started taking probiotics they healed up and since I've been taking probiotics indefinitely they've never come back...you may want to look into a good probiotic if you have mouth issues.

01-10-2010, 04:06 PM   #12
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I just got back from town and talked to the pharmacist, and the Nystatin is good but I need a prescription, but she says the Hydrogen peroxide works good and I have some.

PB4 I am on high probiotics 450 billion per pkg and I take two a day sometimes both at once so that is 900 billion. It is recommended by the CCFC and I have been on it for a year and still have flares along with cankers. But seems like when I am in a flare they come out. I also think the Antibiotics do it too...Vicious circle cant win...
01-10-2010, 04:11 PM   #13
pb4
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I must be super lucky then cuz in the last 5ish yrs that I've been taking probiotics (I started with Primadophils Reuteri made by Natures Way, but just recently switched to ProBio TX-11 made by Sangsters) I haven't had a single one (thanking my lucky stars).

I hope you find relief soon, I know (as we all do) how awful it is to have them.

01-10-2010, 04:16 PM   #14
Crohn's 35
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I know this sounds weird but if you are a person who gets them Crohns or not, if you kiss your child with cankers or cold sores they will inherit them too. My mom gets them and so does my daughter, she just got over a cold sore and I have cankers... coincidence and hereditary.
01-10-2010, 06:42 PM   #15
Ms Cordelia
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These "canker" soars in the mouth are the herpes virus (simplex 1) and it does flare when you have a crohn's flare. They are contagious. If you have genital herpes (simplex 2), this will also flare at the same time as crohn's.
For the mouth, I have heard that a toothpaste without Laurel Sulfates helps. Laurel Sulfates is known to irritate people who are prone to cankers. I use Welleda Natural Toothpaste and get it at a healthfood store. It's been pretty good so far.
01-10-2010, 09:25 PM   #16
tamesis
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Canker sores look similar to cold sores, caused by the herpes simplex, but are not the same thing.

http://bodyandhealth.canada.com/cond...disease_id=143
01-10-2010, 09:28 PM   #17
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Yeah, I got some cream for the cold sores that are for Herpes, but I havent had a cold sore in a long time. Sometimes they are fever blisters, and I get them from the sun too. Cankers on my tongue come and go but they do go away... have to get Nystatin from my doc or Gi soon..
01-11-2010, 12:51 AM   #18
imisspopcorn
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Peaches said:
Sorry you get those Jetta - they are a pain in the butt!! I used to get tongue ulcers that were diagnosed as geographic tongue as well as psoriasis by a top doc over at Duke. My regular GP gave me a week's worth of diflucan (for yeast - one pill is the usual dose) to see if that helped, it didn't. I do not believe either of the other diagnosis were correct. They are a bit painful and start out small - then spread and get bigger and bigger. I have a crappy pic of them I'll post - it is old and blurry, but it is all I have. My GI tried Dukes Magic Mouthwash as well. I do not believe this really helped very much. It seemed to help the pain somewhat - but the spread still happened and the healing took just as long. May not be the same thing that you have...but just thought I'd put it here.

I am lucky in that within weeks of being on Remicade, after battling these things for YEARS - they just went away! I have not had one since - and am very happy about it!

Here is a link for the mouth wash:

http://mercypharmacy.wikispaces.com/...+MOUTHWASH.pdf

Here's the pic - one is on the front of my tongue - the other is on the right

Is that a recent pic?
01-11-2010, 11:08 AM   #19
Peaches
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No - very very old. Since I just figured out that I have actually been on the Remi over 6 years - I'd say that picture is around 7 or more years old. Like I said - since I have been on the Remi - I haven't had any more incidences of these things - which tells me it is definitely Crohn's related. They are not canker soars, it is not yeast, it is not geographic tongue. Don't know if it is psoriasis (which is what I was diagnosed with by the Duke "expert" guy) - but whatever it is - Remi made it go bye bye thankfully!

In looking over my medical records - my doc had me do Nystatin swish as well - this did not help in my recollection.

Guys - I'm in to pictures (pictures are worth a thousand words!) and this is a canker sore:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canker_Sore



This is a COLD sore or Herpes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_sore



Both of those wiki articles need to be validated by an expert - but gives good info. They did site what Ms. Cordelia said about switching toothpaste for the cankers.

Last edited by Peaches; 01-11-2010 at 11:16 AM.
01-11-2010, 11:19 AM   #20
Steve
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Try Listerine Mouthwash. Keep it in your month and gargle for about 60 seconds. Its burns like hell but its well worth it. It works for me everytime. Within a few day, gargling 3 times a day, its gone. You may kill me for telling you this as soon as yoyu try it, but it works. (at least for me, it does)
01-11-2010, 11:52 AM   #21
Crohn's 35
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Yeah, tried listerine didnt go it. I am sensitive to most toothpastes and have tried natural ones too, I also have to use a toothpaste for sensitive teeth. Most toothpastes make my lips peel. Another good thing to do is probably change your tooth brush and keep it away from the toilet as far as possible. Cold sores I get alot thru stress, so far knock on wood I havent had one in many months. My sore tongue is gone now too.
01-12-2010, 04:14 AM   #22
shazamataz
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Jettalady said:
Yeah, tried listerine didnt go it. I am sensitive to most toothpastes and have tried natural ones too, I also have to use a toothpaste for sensitive teeth. Most toothpastes make my lips peel. Another good thing to do is probably change your tooth brush and keep it away from the toilet as far as possible. Cold sores I get alot thru stress, so far knock on wood I havent had one in many months. My sore tongue is gone now too.
I don't have this problem but I DO have tender/red gums!

I wanted to respond to you, Pen, about having your toothbrush near the toilet! My bathroom windowsill is right above the toilet and it it where I have a wee mug with my toothbrush in it. Are you saying this is gonna cause issues? Or were you referring to something else - like I use an OLD tothbrush to clean tricky bits in the bathroom.
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01-12-2010, 04:18 AM   #23
tamesis
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They say that when you flush a toilet that little particles fly up to 3 feet or something like that....Maybe that's why it was suggested to keep it far from the toilet?
01-12-2010, 04:22 AM   #24
shazamataz
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Oh, eeeeew, I never thought of that! At least it is only my poo at my house!
01-12-2010, 07:53 AM   #25
Sue-2009
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Hey you guys, I belong the J pouch site--cause I have a pouch too! And the people there swear by l-lysine. When I get a canker sore...it seems to work. Sue
01-12-2010, 08:00 AM   #26
farm
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Saltwater Solution and Sodium Bicarbonate/Baking Soda - Mix 1 teaspoon salt with one cup warm water. Swish the solution in your mouth for 30 seconds, then expectorate (spit) the solution out of your mouth. In addition to salt, 1/2 teaspoon baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) may be added to the saline solution as well. Create a paste by mixing baking soda with small drops of water until a thick consistency has resulted. Use this paste to cover the canker sores, which will help relieve pain. These methods may be repeated as often as needed. Saline and sodium bicarbonate both help the mouth heal quickly by gently reducing the alkalinity and bacteria in the mouth.

Hydrogen Peroxide Solution - Mix one part hydrogen peroxide with one part water. Use a cotton swab to dab the solution directly onto the canker sores. Do not swallow the solution. Hydrogen peroxide is an antiseptic that will help reduce the amount of bacteria in the mouth.

Milk of Magnesia - Used frequently as an aide to relieve constipation and as an antacid, milk of magnesia is a liquid suspension of magnesium hydroxide. Dab milk of magnesia directly onto the canker sores with a cotton swab, three to four times a day. This method is recommended after using the hydrogen peroxide solution. Milk of magnesia will help reduce the pain and help speed the healing process.

Liquid Antihistamine - Diphenhydramine (Benadryl) may be used as an oral rinse by mixing one part milk of magnesia and one part diphenhydramine together. Rinse with the solution for one minute, then fully spit out the solution. Take care to avoid swallowing this mixture.

Over-The-Counter Oral Care Products and Mouth Rinse - Available in most dental care sections, antiseptic mouth rinses contain ingredients intended to help heal mouth sores by reducing the amount of bacteria in the mouth. Oral care products that are manufactured to numb painful areas in the mouth are also useful when treating canker sores. Products such as gels, paste, and rinses that are specifically marketed for mouth sores may provide pain relief and help speed the healing process. It is important that you follow the manufacturers' instructions closely when using over-the-counter products.

Oral Medications - Prescription medication may be necessary for treating serious canker sores that have developed into secondary infections. Tetracycline suspension (liquid) may be prescribed with instruction to hold the medicine in the mouth for two to five minutes before swallowing. Tetracycline is typically not prescribed for children as it has been shown to cause permanent discoloration in developing teeth. Zovirax (Acyclovir) is an antiviral drug that may be prescribed for cases where there are multiple, very painful canker sores.
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01-12-2010, 09:15 AM   #27
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tamesis said:
They say that when you flush a toilet that little particles fly up to 3 feet or something like that....Maybe that's why it was suggested to keep it far from the toilet?

BINGO! Elementary my dear Tamesis,
01-12-2010, 09:17 AM   #28
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Thanks FARM! I have most of that stuff in my home, and the last one I have for my cold sores. Just my sore tongue is bad in flares.

I have been having flares since Christmas and losing mucous more than usual, just can't seem to get it under control.

I have a B12 shot due next Monday so I will get a script for oral Nystatin too, my whole body is a mess!
07-03-2012, 05:05 PM   #29
geraldine
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I have found that the antibacterial mouth rinse Chlorhexadine helps, it doesn't burn, like listerine or hydrogen peroxide. It helps decrease the bacteria which helps provide an environment more conducive to healing. Its hard for any wound to heal when it's surrounded by bacteria. Something else which helps is debacterol, a chemical applied to the canker sore and chemically cauterizes the sore. It hurts when applied, but then the pain is either gone or greatly diminished. Debacterol and Chlorhexadine can both be ordered by your M.D. or D.D.S., they need a prescription.
07-03-2012, 05:34 PM   #30
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I have found that the antibacterial mouth rinse Chlorhexadine helps, it doesn't burn, like listerine or hydrogen peroxide. It helps decrease the bacteria which helps provide an environment more conducive to healing. Its hard for any wound to heal when it's surrounded by bacteria. Something else which helps is debacterol, a chemical applied to the canker sore and chemically cauterizes the sore. It hurts when applied, but then the pain is either gone or greatly diminished. Debacterol and Chlorhexadine can both be ordered by your M.D. or D.D.S., they need a prescription.
I also use Chlorahexadine (Peridex). I also use nystatin mouth swish (a prescription). I find that if I use the nystatin when I have burning in my mouth, that it help tremendously.

Jo Ann
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Diagnosed with Crohns of the terminal ileum by biopsy in 1999 (I believe that my appendectomy in 1978 was the beginning of my disease)

Medications that I have tried:
pentasa
entocort
prendisone
azothioprine (caused pancreatitis)
Cimzia
Humira
Remicade (current)

4 small bowel obstructions

6/7/12 - ileocecal resection - 26 cm. no colostomy

Ongoing oral ulcers



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