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Crohn's Disease Forum » Books, Multimedia, Research & News » The Broad Street pump revisited: dairy farms and an ongoing outbreak of inflammatory


07-18-2012, 09:17 PM   #1
kiny
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The Broad Street pump revisited: dairy farms and an ongoing outbreak of inflammatory

The study goes like this, there's 15 kids, aged 5-18, they all were either born or moved to Forest Virginia before they had any symptoms.

11 of them got Crohn's disease, 4 got Ulcerative colitis.

2 houses were right next to a dairy farm, others close to rivers or creeks close by.

Forest Virginia has a population of 8006 (2000 census). Crohn in the West is 4.56 per 100,000 children per year. The rate in Forest Virginia is 217 per 100,000 children. 47 times as high.

7 of the kids with CD and 2 with UC were tested for anti-MAP antibodies. 5 from the 7 CD kids tested for MAP were positive.




http://www.gutpathogens.com/content/3/1/20

The Broad Street pump revisited: dairy farms and an ongoing outbreak of inflammatory bowel disease in Forest, Virginia







07-18-2012, 09:26 PM   #2
D Bergy
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My own personal experiment proved to me that MAP was a component of my disease. Probably not the only pathogen involved.

It still boils down to an immune system that is unable to effectively rid itself of the pathogen, or pathogens that cause the disease.

Dan
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07-18-2012, 09:34 PM   #3
kiny
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It still boils down to an immune system that is unable to effectively rid itself of the pathogen, or pathogens that cause the disease.
I find it interesting that many cases in Asia of crohn's disease have no genetic markers at all, they very rarely have a genetic NOD2 association I read. I think if MAP is causing it or E Coli or whatever, the amount of concentrated MAP you either get through aerosol or food from a sick cow is probably way more important than any genetic marker. There are many exact twins where one gets crohn and the other does not, even though they lived under the same roof their whole live.

I don't care about the cause itself anymore, but I do care about the treatment, and since treatment solely depends on someone's notion of autoimmune (which is bs) versus infection with or without genetic predisposition, I care. The cause influences how doctors treat someone, and if they don't understand the cause, or want to understand the cause (some are so stubborn they don't even want to open their eyes to the possibility), they will mistreat patients.

I'll believe in the autoimmune theory the day someone shows me 1 single study that shows crohn is an autoimmune disease, until then I will believe in the thousands of E Coli / MAP studies and genetic studies that show the relationship between our inability to clear bacteria and inflammation. Until then the autoimmune theory is a myth and it will stay one.

Last edited by kiny; 07-18-2012 at 09:51 PM.
07-18-2012, 11:07 PM   #4
D Bergy
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I do beleive there is a genetic predispositon to what is considered an autoimmune disease. I do not believe the traditonal definition of "autoimmune" which generally means the body attacking itself. That flies in the face of what causes disease in general, which is almost always pathogen related.

I have three children and two of them have medical problems that are not Crohn's but are often enough paired with Crohn's. One has Celiac Sprue and the other has Hidradenitis Supurrativa. The odds of that happening without any genetic correlation has got to be astronomical. The third child has some early indication of an intestinal problem, but not giving him much problem yet.

Crohn's is much like Fibromyalgia or MS in that it is a collection of symptoms, but no distinct test or pathogen you can tie to it. Some cases of Crohn's may be an entirely different disease. Until the specific causes are known, it reamains a collection of symptoms.

There likely is some trigger that causes one person to get the disease, when another will not get it. I do not think the trigger or triggers mean you get Crohn's but it means your immune system has been altered by the trigger, and leaves you open to develop one of many of the "autoimmune" type diseases. It is not a simple disease, and it may not always be caused by the same pathogen and may take more than one pathogen.

It is funny that you mentioned E-Coli, because that is the other pathogen that I am fairly certain is often involved with my Crohn's. My third suspect pathogen, which I am more or less speculating that is involved with fistulizing Crohn's is Mycoplasma Pneumonia. I am not as sure about that one, but it is quite intersting that I never had a fistula until I was 49 years old, and during and after a lingering case of pnuemonia that I had for several months. Then I get three fistulas in one shot.

I suspect, if I make sure I treat any indication of Pneumonia quickly and thouroughly, I will never get another one. I guess I will have to wait and see if that is the case.

I hope it is, because I do not want to lose any more of my guts to this disease.

Dan
07-18-2012, 11:54 PM   #5
PlutoCronie
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I lived on the East Coast of the USA for over 5 decades and never had any digestive disorders, or, organic disease. Within 2 years of moving to a major dairy-farm Midwest state I contracted CD. There could be many factors involved, age and stress being big ones, but I am considering infected drinking water and also intestinal bacteria from infected cows. To the best of my knowledge, neither the maternal, nor, the paternal side of my family of origin had, or, has had any type of inflammatory bowel disorder or disease.
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07-19-2012, 12:38 AM   #6
kiny
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It is funny that you mentioned E-Coli, because that is the other pathogen that I am fairly certain is often involved with my Crohn's.
Some invasive E Coli is really good at making biofilms to stick to the intestinal wall or to penetrate it. Lots of probiotics and supplement have maltodextrin in them, maltodextrin might be used to make biofilms. Would be ironic if probiotics are making crohn's much worse because of the maltodextrin they put in them.
07-19-2012, 01:05 AM   #7
PlutoCronie
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Would be ironic if probiotics are making crohn's much worse because of the maltodextrin they put in them.
Yes, it would be.
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