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Crohn's Disease Forum » Diet, Fitness, and Supplements » Juicing » Juicing as a Viable Treatment option!


 
10-08-2012, 01:13 AM   #31
Gianni
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While I ABSOLUTELY believe in juicing, there are some veggies that can contradict Crohn's treatments and also other ailments (i.e diabetes, kidney issues, cancer treatments, and certain meds). It's DEFINTELY best to research which veggies work for which ailments. For instance, if you have history of kidney stones, spinach, swiss chard, parsley should be avoided because of their high oxalate qualities. WIth Diabetes there are a whole host of veggies (Beets) and fruits you should avoid whether juicing or eating in its natural state. Also, if you are on blood thinners; there are an entire other group of food and supplements you should avoid or at least take in small moderation. As far as cancer treatments (as I learned with my 11 year old nephew, juicing many veggies can inhibit treatment). So while I can say juicing is an INCREDIBLE way to supplement diet, it is also something you MUST discuss with your doctor. If your doctor doesn't know about juicing and it's benefits/contradictions, then PLEASE find another PROFESSIONAL opinion.

I take Turmeric (Curcumin) as a supplement but was unhappy to find studies how it can interact with certain chemotherapy treatments. Thankfully Infliximab (Remicade) was not included in that study, but my dear nephews drug WAS included. And he's been taking Curcumin and battling Lymphoma for over a year now. I am all for finding an herbal/holistic treatment but I don't want to counteract his treatments with some unregulated herbal concoction either.

Basically, just please educate yourself first and no matter what, TELL YOUR DOCTOR EVERY supplement/vitamin you are taking. They can completely contraindicate.
Thanks for the post.

there are some veggies that can contradict Crohn's treatments and also other ailments (i.e diabetes, kidney issues, cancer treatments, and certain meds).
Not sure cancer treatments and "certain meds" could be considered ailments but i digress.

yes some fruits and veggies can contradict with crohn's treatment. Actually everything about fruits and veggies contradicts many treatments seeing as the theory behind juicing is to boost immune system while many treatments want to suppress the immune system.

As for diabetes, it is a shame that people have demonized fruits for a diabetic. So many food chemicals present in fruits tremendously help the pancreas. Many diabetics have an inflamed pancreas and fruits such as blueberries, tomatoes, pomegranates, and cherries contain extremely strong anti inflammatory antioxidants. Also natural sugars and soluble fiber found in fruits will release these sugars into the blood stream slowly as to not onset a sugar spike ( a kind of natural failsafe for the body) so the pancreas can better handle the fruits. It is a shame that diabetics don't trust fruits because they will be planning their diets and tell themselves that they can't have fruit, yet many will have "cheats" and those cheats often contain highly processed and refined sugars that don't contain the same failsafes or antioxidants. Also in my juice thread i stress the importance of not adding too much fruit in the juices as super concentrated doses can be a lot for your body to handle. So yes diabetics should be careful on such a regiment, but should they avoid? I think not.

As for the Kidney stones part.
Firstly i want to point out that these high oxalate levels in these vegetables are only found in commercially grown produce, not in organic or local produce.

The way i see it is that there are MUCH bigger fish to fry in this department than certain vegetables. These bigger fish include processed sugars, carbonated beverages, animal products, soy and sodium rich foods, and calcium supplements.

Seeing as three of those describe soda, I think its safe to say soda is public enemy #1. The extreme low ph level along with the processed sugars, phosphoric acid carbonation, and high levels of sodium all extract calcium from the bones and excretes through the urine which GREATLY increases the chance of a kidney stone.

Animal protein contains the amino acids methionine and cysteine which are sulfur-containing amino acids. When the proteins are digested the sulfuric acid remains which is essentially battery acid. To equalize this, the body extracts calcium from the bones (calcium is a base (high ph level). This process is called metabolic acidosis. The calcium is then extracted through the urine and greatly increases the chances of developing a kidney stone. This process explains why the united states is the number one consumer of non fat dairy and has the highest level of osteoporosis and other bone degenerative diseases. By making milk non fat more animal protein is added and in turn your body extracts calcium from the bones. Not exactly what the "got milk" commercials told you huh?

I don't think i need to explain calcium supplements here. I think it is self explanatory. If not a quick google search should yield some results.

Just like how i mentioned before, fruits and vegetables contain failsafes or adaptive measures in which the body will utilize other elements of the fruit or vegetable in order to take care of the initial problem. For example the vegetables you stated that could cause kidney stones, also contain vitamins and minerals that will prevent kidney stones. These minerals include magnesium and potassium. Even Vitamin C (which is always trying to be linked to cause kidney stones but never has) actually helps prevent kidney stones through a couple of ways. First off Vitamin C will actually keep calcium bound to its true form instead of binding with the oxalates. Second Vitamin C is a diuretic which will keep urine flow constant which disrupts the environment for a stone to form. Further more evidence supports that kidney stones develop around a bacterial infection. Vitamin C is a strong anti bacterial

Vitamin C, magnesium, and/or potassium are present in a qualitative quantity in most fruits and vegetables so while yes oxalates are present in these vegetables, so are these vitamins and minerals. Also seeing as food scientists estimate 10,000 food chemicals yet to be identified exist, I think it is safe to say other factors are at hand.

The truth is many people try to point the finger at fruits or vegetables but these are exactly what has sustained our genome for millions of years. Our bodies developed benefits from these fruits and vegetables and in no way would these fruits and vegetables still be doing humans harm if we had adapted to them over millions of years. A common mis conception is that fruit and vegetables just contain these great benefits because that's how they were made. But if humans had never encountered these fruits or vegetables before in history, we would probably see huge adverse reactions from them and we wouldn't find any benefit in them. But the human genome found ways for plants to benefit us directly so no it wouldn't find benefits from fruits and vegetables but at the same time cause a problem like kidney stones... that doesn't make sense. (hopefully that paragraph made sense.. makes sense to me)


Having said that yes i do agree that people should seek professional advise on the matter of nutrition and definitely if used in conjunction with other treatments.

I was in no way saying i was a "PROFESSIONAL" of the matter.

I guess the way i see it is that the medical treatments are interfering with the vegetables not the other way around

Anyways, thanks for the post, you brought up many points that people should look into. I wish you and your nephew the best

Good luck

Gianni
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Last edited by Gianni; 10-08-2012 at 01:35 AM.
10-08-2012, 01:16 AM   #32
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Great Post
Many thanks for the massive effort.
10-08-2012, 01:23 AM   #33
Gianni
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Here is an excellent book that I found on juicing and it tells you what combinations of veg/fruit and what quantities for all types of conditions/diseases I highly recommend it.

Fresh vegetable and fruit juices whats missing in your body by N.W. Walker D.Sc
Thanks ozboz, i will look into this I have actually been working on a similar system, kind of a treatment plan for many conditions. I love learning about different conditions, the organs involved, and what fruits and veggies will help that organ. So this could prove to be very helpful.

Thanks

Gianni
10-08-2012, 02:48 AM   #34
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Gianni have a squiz at the book its grouse tells the origins of difrent disease and conditions and tells you what formulas of juice are used to treat them
10-08-2012, 03:35 AM   #35
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My mom is a type 2 diabetic and fruits do make her blood sugar spike. She doesn't avoid fruit entirely but can only handle a little at a time unfortunately.
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10-08-2012, 04:04 AM   #36
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Thanks crabby, Yes as often seen diabetics can only handle a small amount of fruit at a time but really anyone shouldn't be indulging themselves in CERTAIN fruits at any given time either.

I wonder if she experiences less severe blood sugar spikes with fruit versus a typical sugary snack. Even though fruit might cause a slight sugar spike there is evidence supporting that the natural sugars release at a slower rate. But then again maybe fruit will provide a longer sugar spike (although i think longer is favorable over acute). Fruits have tons of other benefits though, benefits which will help the pancreas

Anyways, thanks for the post.

All the best to your mom,

Gianni
10-08-2012, 08:13 AM   #37
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A doctor once told me that all supplements are crap and that I shouldn't take anything except for what he prescribes he said all over the counter supplements are hocus pocus all his stuff ever did was make me more sick and supplements make me feel better go figure
I hope you found another doctor ASAP.
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10-08-2012, 08:43 AM   #38
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Wow Gianni,

You put a lot of work into this. I see the fire is burning inside you!

I love organic foods as well. I definitely go for organic when I have the option because pesticides are nasty! Not only are they nasty but they are used everywhere. It is especially important to watch out for food grown in other countries and scrutinize the origin when you're buying produce out of season.

From time to time there may be various news stories that report the FDA stopped the importation of specific foreign crops due to toxic levels of pesticides that may not be banned in other countries. We also don't want to forget that there are very toxic pesticides that are legal for American farmers to use. The FDA has a hard enough time regulating food safety in our own country let alone from all the countries that we import food from. In light of this fact, we cant really be sure that toxic pesticides (whether banned in this country or not) are not in our food supply. If we buy food from commercial suppliers like some of the grocery stores chains do, then it stands to reason that some of the food we eat may have been cultivated or raised using toxic pesticides and/or hormones.

Some links about pesticides in our food.

http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/3/07-041814/en/

http://www.puristat.com/standardamer...esticides.aspx


One thing that I found in buying organically labeled food in the grocery store is that sometimes, foods are labeled organic that don't truly deserve the organic label. It's hard to tell exactly how some of the produce is grown, or the conditions that the livestock were raised in unless you go to the farm yourself, but like you said, money talks. The extra premium people pay for organic food is enough to make some farmers try and skirt the rules or walk the line that determines if an organic label is warranted. It's in our best interest to find out more about the organic farmers that we buy from and not just trust the organic label on it's own.

One great way to ensure your produce is organic is to grow it yourself. If you have a little bit of land it's not too hard to do. Personally, I have been gardening since I was old enough to hold a shovel. It's hard work sometimes, but I am rewarded with food grown the way nature intended. This years harvest was bountiful, and of course it was completely organic.

Some of my friends that live in apartments or those who are unable to keep their own garden joined an organic gardening commune where they all contribute a little time to grow the foods they want. That is a great way to get involved in organic gardening and be 100% certain that your food is completely natural.

One problem I have is that I can't have livestock in my neighborhood. I would love to have a rooster in my back yard, but my neighbors would probably kill me. When I am buying meat or produce that I don't grow myself I try to go to local farmers markets and buy from vendors that I am familiar with. However, this is not always possible, so I make it a point to read labels carefully before I buy something, from the supermarket. This drives my wife nuts sometimes, especially if I tell her she can't use 1/2 the coupons she cut out because the associated products are questionable.

I try to take as many reasonable measures as I can to ensure what I grow is all natural. For instance, I like to start from seed when possible and make my own compost to fortify the soil. It's a lot of fun and as far as I am concerned, no tomato from the grocery store (organic or not) beats a tomato picked from the vine the my back yard.

My neighbors think I am nuts for growing so many veggies for just me and my wife. Maybe I am a little "nuts", the juices and sauces I make freeze well so I am able to enjoy their nutritious benefits in the winter time while my "sane" neighbors are eating their store bought pesticide laden produce.
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10-08-2012, 10:29 AM   #39
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GORGEOUS Wooddy!

And I agree, there's usually little better than growing our own
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10-08-2012, 11:05 AM   #40
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Limited Vege to Vitamin/Mineral Cheat Sheet

Magnesium: Spinach, Swiss Chard, Lima Beans, Arugula, Peas

Folate: Spinach, Asparagus, Curly Endive, Romain Lettuce, Turnip Greens

Vitamin K: Kale, Spinach, Collard Greens, Turnip Greens, Swiss Chard

Potassium: Sweet Potato, Lima Beans, Spinach, Swiss Chard, Mushrooms

*This is a VERY limited excerpt from a rather narrow minded Nutrition Action Health Letter from the Center for Science in the Public Interest--I don't endorse most/everything this random publication prints, I just so happened to be reading this when this thread caught my eye.

One can easily google "food sources for magnesium" etc... and be better informed. Notice Spinach made every list above. Also note it depends on the soil medium whether such minerals are still present.
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10-08-2012, 11:37 AM   #41
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A doctor once told me that all supplements are crap and that I shouldn't take anything except for what he prescribes he said all over the counter supplements are hocus pocus all his stuff ever did was make me more sick and supplements make me feel better go figure
Doctors like that should face a jail time. No joke.
10-08-2012, 12:39 PM   #42
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That's awesome Woody.

I convinced my parents to allow a small garden at my childhood home so i could plant organic plants for them and myself Unfortunately I live in an apartment and can't really have a garden for my own. So i will make it a point to travel there every once in awhile and pick some produce But yes i agree with all the points you made

Beautiful Garden! Im jealous

Gianni
10-08-2012, 01:08 PM   #43
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I've tried Juicing as well, but didnt have a very positive result. My problem, unlike many others, isnt diarrhea, its actually constipation. I initially went on the Juicing diet in order to make an attempt to alleviate the severe constipation I've been experiencing since I was born. I used Kale, carrotts, peaches, apples, raspberries, pears, and blackberries. I used a few other veggies as well, it just escapes me which ones at the moment. My brain is a little foggy. Anyway, I did that along with one capful of Miralax, and still didnt poop.
Well, believe it or not, ever since I started eating regular foods again (and even some fast food), my stool is loose. I'm a medical mystery at this point...
10-08-2012, 03:11 PM   #44
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I wonder if she experiences less severe blood sugar spikes with fruit versus a typical sugary snack. Even though fruit might cause a slight sugar spike there is evidence supporting that the natural sugars release at a slower rate. But then again maybe fruit will provide a longer sugar spike (although i think longer is favorable over acute). Fruits have tons of other benefits though, benefits which will help the pancreas
Both go in quickly. She avoids any type of white breads and sugary snacks. She's very good about her diet. She also says that oranges go in the quickest. As far as how long the blood sugar is raised, you really don't want your blood sugar to be raised for a longer period of time because you will experience undesirable symptoms with a blood sugar spike.
10-08-2012, 05:15 PM   #45
Gianni
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I've tried Juicing as well, but didnt have a very positive result. My problem, unlike many others, isnt diarrhea, its actually constipation. I initially went on the Juicing diet in order to make an attempt to alleviate the severe constipation I've been experiencing since I was born. I used Kale, carrotts, peaches, apples, raspberries, pears, and blackberries. I used a few other veggies as well, it just escapes me which ones at the moment. My brain is a little foggy. Anyway, I did that along with one capful of Miralax, and still didnt poop.
Well, believe it or not, ever since I started eating regular foods again (and even some fast food), my stool is loose. I'm a medical mystery at this point...

May I ask the extent you tried juicing too? How often, for how long and typically fruits or veggies?

When first diagnosed I also actually suffered from constipation and not diarrhea. The thing about juicing is that it doesn't include fiber so if you have a problem with constipation, adding in smoothies intermittently would help with that. Try drinking a ton of water. Some people need more water than others.

Also the process behind diarrhea is that the body is trying to get rid of the food (because it doesn't agree with it, or cannot use it at the time being) as fast as possible so it doesn't take the time to digest the water (thats what makes D watery) So the fact that fast food creates "loose stools" doesn't surprise me because your body probably isn't liking what you are giving it so it is allowing water to come out with the food. (Kind of your form of D). Its worth noting that just because stools seem normal, does not mean your body is benefitting from that food.

With that said, I think giving nutrition another chance is worth it. Maybe try making smoothies versus juicing until you get the constipation under control. Also try including more veggies over fruits, 5 of the 7 plants you named were fruits. try to do 5 of the 7 being vegetables

Gianni
10-08-2012, 05:45 PM   #46
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May I ask the extent you tried juicing too? How often, for how long and typically fruits or veggies?

When first diagnosed I also actually suffered from constipation and not diarrhea. The thing about juicing is that it doesn't include fiber so if you have a problem with constipation, adding in smoothies intermittently would help with that. Try drinking a ton of water. Some people need more water than others.

Also the process behind diarrhea is that the body is trying to get rid of the food (because it doesn't agree with it, or cannot use it at the time being) as fast as possible so it doesn't take the time to digest the water (thats what makes D watery) So the fact that fast food creates "loose stools" doesn't surprise me because your body probably isn't liking what you are giving it so it is allowing water to come out with the food. (Kind of your form of D). Its worth noting that just because stools seem normal, does not mean your body is benefitting from that food.

With that said, I think giving nutrition another chance is worth it. Maybe try making smoothies versus juicing until you get the constipation under control. Also try including more veggies over fruits, 5 of the 7 plants you named were fruits. try to do 5 of the 7 being vegetables

Gianni
To be more specific....
We have a Vitamix Blender (yes, one of those $500 blenders. No, I dont know why he felt the need to invest that much in a blender hehehe)...
I would place all the fruits and veggies into the blender, blend for a few minutes until it turns them into a smoothie or juice, add Miralax, blend more, and drink

The Vitamix is famous for having the ability to add solid fruits and veggies without destroying the blender, including the core.

It always looked gross, but the fruit added the good flavor so I would drink right up.

I did it for probably a week until I got so sick I just couldnt get out of bed to make anymore. Then I ended up in the ER....
10-08-2012, 05:50 PM   #47
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So it just occured to me....I guess what I did wasnt exactly juicing. It was more like "eating straight-up fruits and veggies in smoothie/liquid form". I know the blender enables me to do that, but not everyone has a Vitamix so I guess I have that benefit.
10-08-2012, 05:50 PM   #48
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To be more specific....
We have a Vitamix Blender (yes, one of those $500 blenders. No, I dont know why he felt the need to invest that much in a blender hehehe)...
I would place all the fruits and veggies into the blender, blend for a few minutes until it turns them into a smoothie or juice, add Miralax, blend more, and drink

The Vitamix is famous for having the ability to add solid fruits and veggies without destroying the blender, including the core.

It always looked gross, but the fruit added the good flavor so I would drink right up.

I did it for probably a week until I got so sick I just couldnt get out of bed to make anymore. Then I ended up in the ER....
Yes, I am familiar with the Vitamix blender. I hope that your one experience hasn't turned you completely off of juicing and blending. I would hope you give it another shot as many people suffering from constipation has found relief through blending. Also try more veggies over fruit next time. I know it might not taste good but are you trying to please your taste buds or feel better?

Also juicing is different from blending if you are not aware. doing a quick google search on the matter will help better demonstrate that.

All the best

Gianni
10-08-2012, 05:53 PM   #49
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So it just occured to me....I guess what I did wasnt exactly juicing. It was more like "eating straight-up fruits and veggies in smoothie/liquid form". I know the blender enables me to do that, but not everyone has a Vitamix so I guess I have that benefit.
Well with the blender the fiber is included while juicing removes fiber. Theres no better way (blending vs juicing) for a normal healthy person, they both have their own benefits. But for sick people I believe juicing is much more useful. See my Juicing vs Blending section at the top of the first post.

Gianni
10-08-2012, 05:56 PM   #50
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Yes, I am familiar with the Vitamix blender. I hope that your one experience hasn't turned you completely off of juicing and blending. I would hope you give it another shot as many people suffering from constipation has found relief through blending. Also try more veggies over fruit next time. I know it might not taste good but are you trying to please your taste buds or feel better?

Also juicing is different from blending if you are not aware. doing a quick google search on the matter will help better demonstrate that.

All the best

Gianni
No, it hasnt. I actually really enjoyed it. It made me feel like I was pursuing a healthier lifestyle. Honestly I just havent been doing it lately because I've been bed-ridden for the past month or so. I'm slowly becoming accustomed to being up and about again, but its taking time. Ive honestly completely lost my appetite, but I know I need the nutrients. I'm going to head back to Whole Foods some time this week and get back to it.

I have to be careful about the fruits and veggies I add. My body doesnt take well to Vitamin C, and I seem to get a lot of ulcers from it, so I try to intake as little as possible. I know its counter-productive for other issues, but the ulcers are so painful...
10-08-2012, 06:03 PM   #51
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No, it hasnt. I actually really enjoyed it. It made me feel like I was pursuing a healthier lifestyle. Honestly I just havent been doing it lately because I've been bed-ridden for the past month or so. I'm slowly becoming accustomed to being up and about again, but its taking time. Ive honestly completely lost my appetite, but I know I need the nutrients. I'm going to head back to Whole Foods some time this week and get back to it.

I have to be careful about the fruits and veggies I add. My body doesnt take well to Vitamin C, and I seem to get a lot of ulcers from it, so I try to intake as little as possible. I know its counter-productive for other issues, but the ulcers are so painful...
You have lost your appetite because your body is telling you, you need the save the energy that would otherwise be lost through digestion. So by juicing you are respecting your body's wishes by consuming only a liquid diet that will only require very little energy to digest while also giving your body a boost of energy to help deal with what it is dealing with.

Sure, stay away from most fruits for the time being. My brother had the same problem but after he started juicing just veggies it went away and his mouth ulcers were no longer aggravated by acidic fruits. Most veggies are alkaline so you don't really need to worry about those. Just limit the fruits for the time being.

Gianni
10-10-2012, 03:29 AM   #52
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I usually juice mostly veg, carrot , celery , cucumber with one apple to sweeten it.

Someone gave me three cucumbers from their garden the other day, the smell as I juiced them and the intense flavour of the juice made me realise that i have never tasted a "real" cucumber before. I must make an effort to grow some veg next year - shame our weather is so unpredictable
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10-10-2012, 10:42 AM   #53
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I usually juice mostly veg, carrot , celery , cucumber with one apple to sweeten it.

Someone gave me three cucumbers from their garden the other day, the smell as I juiced them and the intense flavour of the juice made me realise that i have never tasted a "real" cucumber before. I must make an effort to grow some veg next year - shame our weather is so unpredictable
Yup A truly fresh (any vegetable or fruit) always tastes much better than what you remember!
10-10-2012, 05:49 PM   #54
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I have just started lookin into juicing and have to say I am really interested and think I may give it a go. I have been having problems with arthritis which usually means a flare is on its way and want to try and keep it at bay with juicing along with my normal medications. I have found this really interesting to read and hopefully will benefit me as I want to come off methotrexte next year this gives me hope :-)
10-11-2012, 01:46 PM   #55
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I've tried Juicing as well, but didnt have a very positive result. My problem, unlike many others, isnt diarrhea, its actually constipation. I initially went on the Juicing diet in order to make an attempt to alleviate the severe constipation I've been experiencing since I was born. I used Kale, carrotts, peaches, apples, raspberries, pears, and blackberries. I used a few other veggies as well, it just escapes me which ones at the moment. My brain is a little foggy. Anyway, I did that along with one capful of Miralax, and still didnt poop.
Well, believe it or not, ever since I started eating regular foods again (and even some fast food), my stool is loose. I'm a medical mystery at this point...

I get constipated as well, and smoothies have helped keep me regular. I would like to try juicing on top of smoothies, but already spent so much on my Vitamix.. One day.

To save time I make a whole blender-full worth of smoothies and store them in Ball jars so I can just grab them and go.

If you aren't feeling well drinking smoothies, experiment with the types of produce you are using. Maybe one or more of them are trigger foods, or they aren't properly combined. Also, make sure to use fully ripe produce so it's easy to digest.
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10-11-2012, 01:50 PM   #56
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Vitamix is still awesome! you will see and feel the benefit!
10-11-2012, 08:03 PM   #57
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Here is an excellent book that I found on juicing and it tells you what combinations of veg/fruit and what quantities for all types of conditions/diseases I highly recommend it.

Fresh vegetable and fruit juices whats missing in your body by N.W. Walker D.Sc
Great book, a lil outdated but nonetheless a good read Thanks ozboz

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10-12-2012, 07:07 AM   #58
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A doctor once told me that all supplements are crap and that I shouldn't take anything except for what he prescribes he said all over the counter supplements are hocus pocus all his stuff ever did was make me more sick and supplements make me feel better go figure
I was just going to mention this as well, Ozboz. I am a medical transcriptionis and listen to a ton of patient medication lists. Most doctors complete dismiss supplements with the exception of folic acid, calcium, vitamin D, vitamin B12, vitamin C and fish oil. In the US, if a patient is on any supplement deemed "an Eastern remedy," that is the first thing doctors tell patients to discontinue.

Basically, just please educate yourself first and no matter what, TELL YOUR DOCTOR EVERY supplement/vitamin you are taking. They can completely contraindicate.
However, like ThanksP said, it is still soooooo important that you tell your doctor every supplement you are taking because there are some that have severe adverse effects when mixed with traditional medicine.
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10-12-2012, 07:24 PM   #59
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Great book, a lil outdated but nonetheless a good read Thanks ozboz

Gianni
Yeah I thought you'd like it I think it was first published in the sixties
10-13-2012, 02:13 PM   #60
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Crohn's Disease Forum » Diet, Fitness, and Supplements » Juicing » Juicing as a Viable Treatment option!
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