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Crohn's Disease Forum » Your Story » Success Stories » Im a believer in herbs now! Herbs that helped me


 
11-15-2012, 08:54 AM   #31
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It's not a debate when you're waving your hands and making shadowy references to some grand pharma conspiracy while offering no evidence based data for your own claims.

There is not one single competent, well corroborated study on the benefit of any sort of herbal remedy for Crohn's. Not even one. Not one single herbal compound has been approved by the FDA for use with Crohn's. Not one single scholarly institution has endorsed any herbal Crohn's remedy. Are they all "in" on it?

Let's base our care of ourselves and our kids on evidence, science, and reality instead of tinfoil hat wearing and new age quackery.

"My opinions are as good as your facts" is not any more valid here than it ever has been anywhere else. You can go on the longest diatribe you like, but until you cite a single credible, peer-reviewed, corroborated source, you've got nothing, folks. Stop telling people to put their kids on this crap. You're dealing with people's lives, and you need to stop peddling superstition and ignorance to people who don't know better.

I do agree that there may be some merit to certain compounds having a positive effect as a supplement to medical care. I've had luck with certain things myself, but I also understand that I am a sample size of one, and that remission, delayed manifestation of effects, uncontrolled outside variables, and many other issues will contribute to the results I think I'm seeing. This is why research is valuable and anecdote is not. However, if you're peddling herbals as a replacement for any sort of drug regimen, you are contributing to someone's risk of morbidity for themselves or their children if God forbid they believe you.

Name one other scholarly institution, hospital, or publication that has ever endorsed or cited the journal of orthomolecular medicine. It's not enough simply to publish your own book and call it a journal. There are standards for peer review that I find it very unlikely they've met.
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11-15-2012, 09:13 AM   #32
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[QUOTE=Farmwife;531521]

She however will never go without seeing a GI or Doctor to make sure her health is at the best it can be. I think it would be FOOLISH for ANYONE here to go without making sure their IBD is controlled!
QUOTE]

Muppet,

I was NOT!!!!!!!! stating that I would NEVER have my little girl who is MY LIFE ever go without medical treatment with meds. Whatever it maybe down the road, I will travel it with her.
But my opinion is their is a place for medicine and herd in our life. I am no way PUSHING you or yours in that direction!!!!
So attacking me and other parents that want what's best for our kids heath is not the way to go!!!

My opinion is not as damaging as yours stating that Parents who do natural remedies is purposely risking their kids life.

Now if you don't mind, I think that's a great idea about making a hat out of tinfoil.
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11-15-2012, 09:17 AM   #33
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I wasn't only addressing you. There are about 5 participants in this thread.

I'm glad we agree that doctors and medications need to be part of the formula. It's dangerous when people say otherwise.

And for the record, I've got a bottle of Aloe Vera juice in my fridge right now. :-P
11-15-2012, 09:21 AM   #34
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Well now Muppet you just made my feel bad.
Ask around, I'm not usually so abrupt in words.
Well Except to crohnsinct, she's just fun to pick on.
I'll just have to send you a case of Aloe Vera Gel for Christmas.
Again thanks for the idea of the tinfoil hat!
11-15-2012, 02:12 PM   #35
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You can't maintain a Crohn's remission with herbals. It's fantasy. Sorry. No well corroborated study supports this.

Just because a study has not been done regarding using herbals as a sole treatment does not mean it cannot work for a lasting remission. Absence of a study only proves that no studies have been done concerning the subject matter. There are no studies proving it cannot work either. Lack of a study on gravity does not make gravity a fantasy. It has its effect either way.

I do not know of any pharmaceutical product that routinely produces a permanent remission either. If you have studies proving otherwise, I have never seen them. This forum is full of people that have had their medication either never work, or stop working after months or years of use. Many of the medications were not even designed for Crohn's, they are anti-rejection drugs for organ transplant patients, or for some other condition.

Saying that medical doctors are not trained in nutrition or aware of nutritional healing is utter nonsense.

Ask your doctor about what foods or vitamins will help, or make your Crohn's worse. You may get some general information about vitamins you can take, such as vitamin D or Iron, B12 and that is about it. I had to figure out for myself what foods bothered me, and they are unique to me, and no doctor could have even have guessed what they are. No study was available for this either, but it had a dramatic effect on my conditon. I will take the effect, study or no study.


Ask your doctor about useful herbs and most of us will get a blank stare, unless you have a chinese doctor. In that case you will get a lot of information. They have a few thousand year head start on us in that catagory.

When I was in the hospital my room mate had nausea that would not go away no matter what anti-nausea medication they gave him. I asked the nurse if they had any form of ginger available. They did not. The anti-nausea effect of Ginger is probably the most documented property of the herb, but they did not have it, or use it. There is no logical reason not to use a safe, cheap, effective herb as the first line of treatment for nausea in cases like this, rather than a more expensive pharmaceutical product with possible side effects.

If you want to advocate for this sort of thing, you should post peer reviewed study, not self help books, as sources.

I prefer my information from wherever someone finds it. I have a brain, and can decide for myself it I want to try this or that, or research it further, or ignore it alltogether. Everyone else also has this capacity.

Some of the most useful treatment methods I have used for various conditions have come from unlikely sources. Some are generally considered quackery, but work nonetheless. Some also have come from studies such as the antiinflammatory effect of Turmeric and Curcumin. Possibly the most studied herb out there. Literally hundreds of studies available for this one herb alone. Inflammation is a huge componant of Crohns.

There is no herbal remedy in the world that rivals medical treatment of Crohns and anybody who says otherwise is selling you something.

This is obviously an opinion as it is not backed up by a study of any kind, since that appears to be your criterea of what is fact and what is fiction. I also have not seen anyone here that is selling herbal remedies, so that part must just be false alltogether.

I'm glad you've had such a long remission, and maybe your condition is just mild which is also a godsend, but preaching to people that they should go off their meds even gradually in pursuit of this nonsense is irresponsible.

This is a straw man argument that you have made up. They are simply sharing what has worked for them for the possible benefit of others.

In my opinion, it is irresponsible not to share actual Crohn's patient information regarding potential treatment options. No one here has told anyone they should go off their meds, or not use meds. There is probably not a person here that has not either taken meds for Crohn's in the past or present. People use what works for them, whether it is a medication or something else. Nothing illogical about that.

Some people have been through most all of the medications and are still suffering. Should we just write them off because the proper studies have not been done on this or that? I woud rather have many options available to me that have worked for others, rather than fewer.

As far as insulting comments like "tinfoil hats", that is not needed on a Crohn's support site.

Dan
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11-15-2012, 03:06 PM   #36
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D Bergy


As far as the "tin foil" hat comment. Since I'm a mother to two children that like to make crafts I thought that would be a good idea. Muppet seams to be a good hearted person and I felt she understood the comment to be humorous. Muppet if I'm wrong I apologize and I have no idea in my simple brain how that can be interpreted as derogatory. I don't want to!

David correct me if I'm wrong but I thought this was a civil place of understanding and open communication between it's members.
I for one have found this place a Godsend of info and support! I would hate to think new comers think they can not express their opinion because others feel the need to attack. That goes on both sides! Myself included!

So I think that's my que to back out of this thread and Muppet pm if you want to yell at me or if you want the case of aloe versa gel!

Last edited by Farmwife; 11-15-2012 at 03:49 PM.
11-15-2012, 03:16 PM   #37
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Let's base our care of ourselves and our kids on evidence, science, and reality instead of tinfoil hat wearing and new age quackery.
I'll base it off common sense... and going to one extreme of the argument doesn't discredit an alternative treatment "tinfoil hat" as I could easily just as say "mercury as an allopathic treatment" (as it was considered for a long time a perfect medicine). I'll let my kids wear tinfoil hats, you inject them with mercury... let's see whose kids are healthier.

It's not a debate when you're waving your hands and making shadowy references to some grand pharma conspiracy while offering no evidence based data for your own claims.
I've cited the medical journals... go buy one, you will see all the advertisements slots filled with pharma ads. And look at the Forbes 500 and count how many pharmaceuticals we have. Now a simple clever man can put the two together and say hmm... this might not be the most honest way of putting studies together.

Maybe you didn't put it together, but I come from a big business orientated family and I know that Big Pharma companies like Phizer have share holders they need to impress every quarter... and if they don't they lose money that's simple. So do you think they would continue to financially support a medical journal if that medical journal started reviewing the efficacy of herbs that would potentially take business from that pharmaceutical? Of course not... it doesn't take a tinfoil hat wearing individual to figure that one out.

It's also not a debate when you automatically discredit ideas and not entertain the thought...


Stop telling people to put their kids on this crap.
This crap meaning natural compounds? yeah that makes sense, cause that's definitely going the harm them right? Not the harsh medication that have 50 listed side effects, it is the herbs and the nutrients that will harm them... right?

You talk about science showing the efficacy of drugs but you don't use scientific reasoning. Our human proteome (genome) has grown stronger through the evolution on these nutrients and on these herbs... that is the base for human health and most anthropologists studying evolution are absolutely in agreement with this. We know that vitamins and minerals help the Immune system tremendously and humans have been consuming them for millions of years. Now all of a sudden in modern age, we switch our diets to high fats, high sodium, high sugars and we change our system of health to chemicals that our human history has never seen before and that is why we have such side effects with these drugs. If our human ancestry never had seen fruit before and then in modern times we start eating fruit, side effects could occur.

If the body can heal on the outside through a strong immune system, why can it not heal on the inside?

You are defending drugs like it's a perfect end all, but you are talking about a medical community that still is treating the absolute sickest nation in the world. To me it's obvious why we are sick, because we've wandered to far from our ancestral diets and we've put too much trust in unnatural unstable chemicals like drugs.

It makes much more sense to me, rather than trusting "peer reviewing studies" in the sickest nation of the world, to ask and research the people whom are living without the disease, and who do have the disease and are now living healthy lives.

After I did my research, after I talked to these people I decided to doctor myself. I decided to not become powerless to a disease that the doctors explained to be so complicated, but to look at it as a roadblock that a simple lifestyle change would fix.

People need to stop being patients, and start being people.


Name one other scholarly institution, hospital, or publication that has ever endorsed or cited the journal of orthomolecular medicine. It's not enough simply to publish your own book and call it a journal. There are standards for peer review that I find it very unlikely they've met.
You see, you don't open your eyes. It's so easy to let others think for you, but how bout deciding for yourself if things hold merit? Read into the journal. The authors and editors of this journal are doctors, anthropologists, botanists etc etc. These are people that actually care about finding effective treatments, the articles are absolutely free on the website! Read different perspective otherwise you become one dimensional, and that is dangerous my friend.


I'm glad you've had such a long remission, and maybe your condition is just mild which is also a godsend, but preaching to people that they should go off their meds even gradually in pursuit of this nonsense is irresponsible.
This is what the forum is about. Go to the treatment section of the forum, maybe go to humira or remicade and browse through the pages. Now look at the left side of the screen and see how many "worried", "anxious", "scared", "help", tags their are next to each thread. By having a multi dimensional forum, the disease can be attacked from multiple angles.

Like I said, you have to ask the individuals that are in remission, that are healthy with the disease... people like D Bergy and me.

I've been through the medications, Remicade, Humira, Entecort, Prednisone, Pentassa and they didn't work for me. If others are in a similar situation on the thread, are we supposed to watch them fail every medicine?

To me this forum also represents more than finding the best treatment. This forum is about the communal efforts of those suffering to come together and use logic and reason to not only show support but also experience for themselves what treatment is working. If my doctor told me that Humira was the best treatment plan there was (which he did) but a dozen people on this forum told me LDN and the supplementation of certain herbs was much better then it is a no brainer for me whom I trust here.

I'd MUCH rather trust the people who have gone through the disease, who have felt as I have felt, who have lived how I've lived, who have suffered how I've suffered, who've cried how I've cried, who've persevered how I've persevered... rather than a "peer reviewed" study.

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Last edited by Gianni; 11-15-2012 at 03:38 PM.
11-15-2012, 03:53 PM   #38
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I'll base it off common sense... and going to one extreme of the argument doesn't discredit an alternative treatment "tinfoil hat" as I could easily just as say "mercury as an allopathic treatment" (as it was considered for a long time a perfect medicine). I'll let my kids wear tinfoil hats, you inject them with mercury... let's see whose kids are healthier.



Gianni

Well I'll be!
Is that what you meant Muppet be saying "tinfoil hat".
See things are just simplier on the farm.
11-15-2012, 04:20 PM   #39
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While I see a lot of passion on both sides which is great, I'm starting to see this getting a little bit personal. Passionate debate is wonderful, but please keep it civil. Thanks

And remember to take your tnf-a inhibitor. Remicade or boswellia, it doesn't matter to me.
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11-15-2012, 04:27 PM   #40
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Hey David what happens when you click on your boswellia link? It takes me to a PubMed site with this as the tag-cover line:

1992 Mar 18-24;88(12):20-1.

Gagged and bound.

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11-15-2012, 04:38 PM   #41
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Oops, sorry. Fixed.

Thanks!
11-15-2012, 06:14 PM   #42
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Muppet-I believe this forum has helped many but I do not agree that it should be a place for arguing. I think all information is important as everyone's disease is different. Asking questions to further understand someones posts is greatly appreciated but telling someone rudely that their ideas and treatments are not good and shouldn't bo posted is not your place. I would hate to see someone stop posting information that may help others because they feel you have offended them. I would like to continue to read all posts regarding all types of treatment as I think an open mind is always best. This disease is a tricky one and what may work for one will not work for another. It is not our job to judge someone else's treatment plan. With that being said I hope this forum can continue to be a place I fell comfortable expressing my ideas while listening to those of others.
11-15-2012, 11:13 PM   #43
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Medical advice needs to be based on something other than self help books and good vibes.

Your personal experience is valuable but it is also your personal experience. You are not a clinical trial. You are one patient. Your interpretation of your own results is suspect at best, and any 101-level college science course teaches why this is. There are a million variables, and I'm sorry, but there is a reason that formal research exists. Handwaving and scary noises don't detract from that fact. When somebody's kid dies because you told them to chew leaves instead of go to the doctor because of some shadowy conspiracy with the pharmaceutical industry, how smug will you feel then?

Certainly, corporations are in this for the profits. There is no disputing that. To believe that every medical researcher on the planet, or even a majority of them, have been co-opted, is beyond paranoia.

Also, while evidence of a similar mechanism of action between an effective drug therapy and an alternative remedy is interesting, it's not the same as evidence of the two being interchangeable or equally effective.

Just because a study has not been done regarding using herbals as a sole treatment does not mean it cannot work for a lasting remission.
This is true. There is no study for lots of things and that doesn't prove they don't work. Maybe jamming a pen in your ear will cure migraines.

It's one thing to experiment with these things as an experienced Crohn's sufferer with several flares and remissions in your history and a good grasp of first, how to keep your symptoms reasonably in check for your own safety and, second, when to hit the ABORT button and call your doctor. It's entirely another to tell brand new patients, or parents of patients, here, try this unproven untested thing that has worked for me and my mates. The former is a wonderful effort by an--on average--very intelligent community to expand the pool of available knowledge, and the latter is utter lunacy.

And no, Gianna, I am not defending drugs as a perfect end all. You are not reading what I am writing. You are seeing a straw man that I'm not building. Further, putting faith in research and established therapies is not disempowering nor is it allowing one's self to be infantilized in the way that you're implying. I am very proactive in my care and my children's care. I've developed my own dietary modifications, I have the last say in all medications and their dosages and durations. I do hours and hours and hours of research in order to be the best advocate for myself and my children that I can be. To imply that this is somehow a childish or naive approach is nonsensical.

Formal research imposes logic on observations about treatments (or whatever subject) and forces one to prove things before they are documented and before vulnerable patients are subjected to them. How this can be regarded as a negative is beyond me.

Last edited by muppet; 11-16-2012 at 12:11 AM.
11-15-2012, 11:49 PM   #44
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You seem pretty angry. I know of an herb that can help with that.
11-15-2012, 11:53 PM   #45
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I'm not angry at all. If anything I'm worried. Vulnerable people come here for advice. People scared out of their minds either very sick themselves or with very sick kids. I hate to think that they get bombarded with poor advice. I haven't really seen it happen here yet but threads like this are pretty worrisome.

Experimentation with alternate therapies is something personal that each sufferer has a choice to entertain. I've done it and I don't have a problem with experienced people trying it. I have a BIG problem with handing out unvetted, ungrounded advice to scared, desperate people (a demographic this forum sees a fair share of), thereby muddying the waters and greatly increasing their chances of harming themselves or their loved ones.

You're being pithy and dismissive. I'm trying to present a case. So it goes.

(PS I've followed your LDN thread with great interest.)
11-16-2012, 12:33 AM   #46
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To believe that every medical researcher on the planet, or even a majority of them, have been co-opted, is beyond paranoia.
I never said this, and I don't believe this.

But just think about how studies are funded... many of them are funded by the pharmaceuticals whether directly or indirectly, go ahead look up a study and scroll to the bottom where they name the funding.

A medical researcher is given a budget to research specific things, they don't get to choose what to research. I'm not sure you understand that.

Its much like if you went to a restaurant and you found out that the restaurant had an "A" health grade, but you also found out that the same restaurant was paying the department of public health (the system of government that gives those health grades). It is a simple conflict of interest so you might be a little weary next time you try that restaurant.

Medical researchers, for the most part, are sincere in their jobs... But you can be sincere and you can be sincerely wrong.


Also, while evidence of a similar mechanism of action between an effective drug therapy and an alternative remedy is interesting, it's not the same as evidence of the two being interchangeable or equally effective.
Yet i'd rather have my child take the one that doesn't list lymphoma as a side effect.


This is true. There is no study for lots of things and that doesn't prove they don't work. Maybe jamming a pen in your ear will cure migraines.
This is your way of discrediting alternative treatments, by poking fun at them. I feel bad for you, I really do. It's this blindness and this stigma that will get you in trouble. There is so much value in interpreting the efficacy of a treatment on your own rather than letting a preconceived notion decide that for you. Leave you dogma at the door.


It's entirely another to tell brand new patients, or parents of patients, here, try this unproven untested thing that has worked for me and my mates.
Many people come on here to seek alternative treatments believe it or not, new and experienced patients alike.

Using harsh chemicals to outsmart mother nature doesn't make sense to many and for those many herbs and nutrition does wonders for them. The body isn't compartmentalized, when one part of the body is ill, the other parts are also ill. So if you take a medication that can cause lymphoma it is safe to say that it isn't benefitting your overall health. Instead the medication is dealing primarily with the symptoms rather than with the underlying cause of the disease. These maintenance medications, in my opinion, are only giving you a false sense of security as the disease itself is still very well there, and now that you have beat down your immune system with these harsh medications the disease is able to advance. Nutrition and herbs deal with the underline cause and rather build up the immune system to help mother nature rather than outsmart it. Our bodies aren't dumb, our immune systems aren't stupid. I believe the immune system is attacking something (which is why it uses inflammation as it does when it fights an infection in a cut) but it isn't strong enough to deal with the problem. So by building up the immune system you can help the body deal with the problem.

Sure maybe this theory doesn't show up in the New England journal of Medicine but it makes much more sense than what the medical community yields crohn's to be.

Common sense is too valuable to replace.

I have a BIG problem with handing out unvetted, ungrounded advice to scared, desperate people
How about logic?

Gianni
11-16-2012, 01:25 AM   #47
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Yeah. I'm being dismissive of you because you are being dismissive of people going the alternative route. I think you are overreacting and being offensive. If people can't post what they've learned and what has helped them, then where should they go? This is as good of a place as any.

There is a lot of valuable information on ALL types of treatments on this site. That's what makes this place great. The last thing this place needs is intellectual discussion of various treatments to be stifled.
11-16-2012, 01:36 AM   #48
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I'm not angry at all. If anything I'm worried. Vulnerable people come here for advice. People scared out of their minds either very sick themselves or with very sick kids. I hate to think that they get bombarded with poor advice. I haven't really seen it happen here yet but threads like this are pretty worrisome.
If you do see it, please report the post as I hate it as well.

Out of curiosity, do you get as fired up when you see people who are prescribed only medications such as Asacol or Lialda when they have ileal Crohn's Disease?

Yet i'd rather have my child take the one that doesn't list lymphoma as a side effect.
It would be interesting to see how many cases of cancer ended up being reported in a large scale, two year clinical trial of something like Boswellia. I bet more than 0. It would also be fascinating to see what list of less serious side effects would be reported.
11-16-2012, 02:40 AM   #49
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It would be interesting to see how many cases of cancer ended up being reported in a large scale, two year clinical trial of something like Boswellia. I bet more than 0. It would also be fascinating to see what list of less serious side effects would be reported.
I bet so too. Of course I wouldn't think the Boswellia would cause the actual cancer but pharmaceuticals are required to put every single side effect reported in that allotted drug trial time. That is why just about every drug has the fatigue side effect .

organic water would also probably show cancer as a side effect... just about anything could.

Of course you can make the argument that the Remicades and the Humiras also may not have caused the said lymphoma. This is where I feed of off others experiences as well as my own. I felt absolutely horrible while on Humira and got pneumonia three times in just a year. I've also read about others who don't feel good as well as get constant colds etc etc. You don't really see that with nutrients or herbs

Personally I feel like these drugs will cause cancers as I personally believe a weakened immune system is susceptible to all cancers and these drugs will lower your immune system. Nutrients and herbs, on the other hand, build up the immune system

Gianni
11-16-2012, 07:57 AM   #50
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If you do see it, please report the post as I hate it as well.

Out of curiosity, do you get as fired up when you see people who are prescribed only medications such as Asacol or Lialda when they have ileal Crohn's Disease?


It would be interesting to see how many cases of cancer ended up being reported in a large scale, two year clinical trial of something like Boswellia. I bet more than 0. It would also be fascinating to see what list of less serious side effects would be reported.
David I tell people to quit their doctors left and right when it's clear that they're receiving poor advice (such as inappropriate prescriptions like you're describing). I suggested it so much last year that it was probably half of my posts over the summer of 2011. There are some crap GI docs out there. I'd even say that the majority of GI docs are basically crap, either through incompetence, apathy, or hubris, and a sharing of doctor experiences and testimonials is a vital part of this forum for that reason. I refuse to take my daughter to any doctor in my state. I drive her 3 hours one way to see her specialist. So, if you're asking me whether I think the advice of a doctor is sacred: no, I don't.

I'm all for experimentation by experienced sufferers with alternative therapies, or for even less experienced sufferers opting into formal trials under the supervision of a competent specialist, but equating folk knowledge with formal medical research is a disservice to the community (and no, not everyone in this thread is guilty of that and I'm not accusing everyone of it.)

ctrl z I don't think that making a clear distinction between anecdote and formal research is stifling discussion. There absolutely should be a place to discuss alternative therapies on this board and I am all for trying the promising ones myself and reporting back too. I don't think that place is in "Your Story" where inexperienced people are asking what to do about someone very very ill, at least not without a healthy dose of qualification. It's not my intention to single anybody out (honestly), but arguments like Gianni is making, that researchers could be wrong and therefore unvetted advice from solitary (or small partnerships) of experts are equally valid, are just wrong. They're wrong logically and medically. You may want to try their advice out for yourself, and that's your prerogative and all well and good. What you should not do is represent to others that peer-reviewed research and expert (for various definitions of expert) advice are on the same plane.

Medical researchers, for the most part, are sincere in their jobs... But you can be sincere and you can be sincerely wrong.
This generalization does not lend any more or less credibility to either medical research or alternative therapies. This is basically a tautology and it would be a logical fallacy to use this as an argument either for or against alternative therapies.

Gianni - A competent gastro will treat your Crohn's holistically WITH appropriate medications (and maybe recommend a supplement or two as well.) If your GI is not considering peripheral medication effects, he or she should not be practicing. I went through 8 GI docs to get to the one I've got now, for this and other reasons. It sounds like you've had negative experiences with doctors who don't value the nutritional component of Crohn's care. Been there, done that. I fired them all.

Last edited by muppet; 11-16-2012 at 09:04 AM.
11-16-2012, 09:52 AM   #51
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David I tell people to quit their doctors left and right when it's clear that they're receiving poor advice (such as inappropriate prescriptions like you're describing).


I'm all for experimentation by experienced sufferers with alternative therapies, or for even less experienced sufferers opting into formal trials under the supervision of a competent specialist
I'm with you. I think experimenting with only holistic treatments when someone is first diagnosed and knows little about the disease and how it is managed is dangerous unless they have an incredibly competent specialist helping them. Far too often I see people taking the holistic approach and when I ask them how they are monitoring their disease, they aren't. That worries me to no end. Of course, on the other end of the spectrum, managing the disease improperly with prescription medications is just as, if not more dangerous in my opinion. It's so important to get the inflammation under control and mucosal healing as quickly as possible and to maintain that.

Once someone has educated themselves to the point where they can advocate for themselves and truly understand the ins and outs of this disease, then, if they want to try only alternative treatments, then more power to them. If someone wants to try managing the disease entirely with herbs and other supplements, that's fine and I understand that desire. And they'll be monitoring things closely enough where, if it doesn't work, then they know that before serious damage and complications arise and can switch course.

One of the biggest roles of this community is to educate people with the best information we can and as honestly and unbiased as possible. I see bias on both sides of the debate in this thread but it's understandable considering what people here have been through. It's not something we can expect to change though I hope people take a step back and evaluate their biases on occasion and take a more neutral stance while still providing information about what they're passionate about.

My only real problem with any of your statements was,
muppet said:
You can't maintain a Crohn's remission with herbals. It's fantasy. Sorry. No well corroborated study supports this.
This is biased. And if we're speaking of clinical remission which is the easiest form to achieve, it is an incorrect bias.
11-16-2012, 09:54 AM   #52
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Cannabis isn't really alternative medicine anymore in my opinion.
11-16-2012, 09:59 AM   #53
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When a treatment is not prescribed by the vast majority of doctors, the dominant non profit foundation for a disease says not to use it, and it is literally illegal to merely posses in a majority of locations, it is most definitely alternative.

And either way, it is an herbal.
11-16-2012, 10:02 AM   #54
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I definitely understand that viewpoint. I mean that medically, I don't think it's really up for debate anymore. The beneficial nature of various cannabis compounds for Crohn's is well established. The fight now is political.

Most (all?) other herbals don't have similar scientific backing (yet).
11-16-2012, 10:26 AM   #55
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11-16-2012, 10:26 AM   #56
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Curcumin in IBD.
Boswellia and Crohn's Disease.

And others on the OPs list may have supporting clinical data as well, I just don't have time right now to look. I know most of them at least have data that support their use as a supplement.

There's more data out there than I think you realize.
11-16-2012, 10:29 AM   #57
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I'm gonna have to get onto my school's network and see if I'm able to access that full Boswellia article.
11-16-2012, 10:33 AM   #58
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My guess is you'll find it's not the greatest study in the world. The Curcumin study is quite interesting, though small. I can affirm that it has helped me and our threads on it here showcase that is has helped others as well.

Almost the entire list the OP has, has scientific backing to some degree. Coupled with medical marijuana, I could absolutely see it helping to maintain clinical remission in some people. It's definitely not for everyone and anyone who tries such an approach (or any approach for that matter) needs to be CLOSELY monitored to make sure it's working.
11-16-2012, 10:40 AM   #59
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I think the most important thing to remember is that a sample size of one only means so much, so reported successes are great, but remissions are sometimes spontaneous, too. While it's counterintuitive to believe that you went from "OMG I'M DYING" to "Wow, I feel fine", in my own personal (sample size of one) experience, it's not super uncommon, just uncommon. Your attitude and belief that things are going to get better certainly can create tangible results, too.
11-16-2012, 10:44 AM   #60
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You're absolutely correct. Of course, I think that some of the spontaneous remission that is occasionally experienced will one day be shown to be a result of changes in environmental (of which diet is the largest) factors and lifestyle changes that may or may not have been purposely employed.
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