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12-26-2012, 11:16 PM   #1
Trevor
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SCD Yogurt hard on the system?

Hey guys,

Just wondering if anyone else finds the SCD yogurt a bit rough?

I'm feeling epically fantastic as of late but every time I throw down some of this yougurt I immediately feel bloated? Which I dislike because the yougurt is delicious and supposedly the best thing ever invented for gut health and as far as I know I don't have a casein issue and even only very mild lactose issues.

Does it just take some getting use to or should I cease and desist?
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12-26-2012, 11:32 PM   #2
Hope345
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Trevor,
You might be lactose intolerant. that is one of the symptoms.
do you have any problems with other milk products: butter, sour cream, milk, cheese?

Also, I believe lactose can actually aggravate IBD, and some believe it promotes it.

You can take probiotics or use lactose free milk.

My daughter is only borderline lactose intolerant but I believe eliminating lactose has decreased her Crohns symptoms.
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Daughter (age 17) diagnosed with Crohns Colitis/UC 1/2012 Mod/severe changed to U.C.: 11/7/2014 anemia:blood transfusion current: Flare, weaning from Prednisone, still bloating: Meds ,Pentesa: 2000mg twice daily, Vegan diet, mesalamine enemas .Previous: mercaptopurine, Remicade (13 treatments), Imuran, prednisone ), Flagyl, iron infusions, cortifoam,
Continue to be hopeful
Daughter: age 21, undiagnosed: GI issues
12-27-2012, 12:31 AM   #3
Susan2
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Trevor, do you also have trouble with other types of yoghurt? or just the SCD yoghurt?
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Crohn's Disease - symptoms since c1955, diagnosed early 1970s. On Prednisolone until...
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Ileostomy that behaves most of the time
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12-27-2012, 01:36 AM   #4
Trevor
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Just the SCD! Maybe I don't handle the probiotic levels well?
12-27-2012, 11:49 AM   #5
Charleigh
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So far my son can't handle the yogurt or any probiotic we have tried. I hope he will be able to tolerate some probiotics once he is more healed. For now, we are following the SCD without it. He is very dairy sensitive so I can't imagine us ever trying the actual yogurt.
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12-28-2012, 10:37 AM   #6
Trevor
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Hmm. Makes me think it is the probiotic levels that are bothering me.

I'll maybe try smaller doses (was eating it by the bowlful) and build up slowly.
12-28-2012, 10:52 AM   #7
Charleigh
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Hmm. Makes me think it is the probiotic levels that are bothering me.

I'll maybe try smaller doses (was eating it by the bowlful) and build up slowly.

I have read that certain probiotics can really irritate Crohn's for some people. Specifically the Bifida strains. I think the author of the SCD book Breaking the Vicious Cycle originally only suggested Acidophilus. I will be honest that I haven't tried solely acidophilus for E. We had already had really bad experiences with probiotics before I learned this so we have decided to wait a while before trying anything close to a probiotic.
02-19-2013, 10:39 AM   #8
Paul Cronk
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The book "Breaking the Vicious Cycle", in the edition I have here, recommends L.Bulgaricus, L. Acidophilus and S.Thermophilus. It says to avoid yoghurts and starters with Bifidus.

This is difficult, since the only live commercial strain I can get has only Bifidus (which I tolerate).

So I eventually found a bulk packet starter with L. Bulgaricus and S.Thermophilus only (L.Acidophilus I already get with my probiotics) and no Bifidus.

What's the problem with Bifidus??????

Anyhow I just mix the starter up in an Easiyo flask with half-cream UHT milk, leave overnight and use it the next day. Don't use the Easiyo starter because it has predominantly Bifidus (although it seems to have others as well!

Did an earlier Bifidus recommendation get zapped because of feedback from readers? Yog has always been OK for me even when I could only get Bifidus.
02-19-2013, 11:19 AM   #9
Charleigh
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I have been meaning to update that E has been on an SCD safe acidophilus and he has done great with it. He is also doing wonderful on Kefir. It is much easier to make, have you ever considered it?
02-19-2013, 11:47 AM   #10
partlycloudy
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Some have to go slowly with SCD yogurt due to the probiotics being too much for their system. I knew people previously who had to start out with 1/4 tsp of the stuff.

The lactose has been fermented out of SCD yogurt so that shouldn't be a problem.

In addition, a lot of people who think they have sensitivities to certain things....casein being one....actually don't have issues once their gut has healed some.
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02-23-2013, 02:15 PM   #11
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Do you ferment the yogurt for at least 24 hours to remove all the lactose?

That made the difference for my son. I found that Dannon's All Natural Plain yogurt is SCD compliant. Contains no bifidus and the 3 cultures elaine mentions in Breaking the Vicious Cycle. (I did call to confirm this even though I saw that Erin from nomorecrohns.com who follows SCD uses it)
02-23-2013, 04:12 PM   #12
Ya noy
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My husband and I make and drink kefir instead, every day. My husband is no longer on any meds for his colitis, and nor has he suffered from any reoccurrences or flares.

Prior to drinking kefir, he was hospitalized for his colitis on a regular basis, and just got out of the hospital for chemicals burns--a side effect of the heart meds he was prescribed.

Everyone is so different though, what works for one, doesn't work for all.

Oh, we make our kefir using grains we got for free off Craigslist. The grains can be reused to make kefir into perpetuity.
02-23-2013, 06:47 PM   #13
Beach
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I've had mixed results from the probiotic yogurt. For the last two weeks I've been eating some, along with aged cheese regularly. On the positive I believe the dairy items help my gut. I've been less ill during this time. It does bloat me a little I've noticed, but nothing experienced has been on the uncomfortable side. On the negative I've found the dairy foods make me feel sluggish, for some reason it seems to hurt my concentration, and can make me feel a bit grumpy. At this point I'm leaning toward stopping the dairy, and instead looking into one of the safer probiotic pills to see what that does for me.
05-16-2013, 08:33 AM   #14
Paul Cronk
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I am about to start using my Kefir and hope for the best. I am a little down at the moment because though my recent colonoscopy was clear, it has caused my Gastro to question his three year old Crohn's diagnosis! Therefore he could not give me Humira (which had failed anyway) but says he cannot now consider Imuran either!!!

Next step is an ACTH test to see if I have adrenal insufficiency and an IRM, but apart from that (after which I need to see a different doctor) I am on my own with the diet.

The problem is weight loss from 70 to 60 kilos and cortisone dependency. Now that Humira has failed I am on Prednisone 15 to 20mg per day. Below that and I go into crisis and I have to up the steroids again and suffer for days until it all stabilises again. So I guess his tests are sensible - if 3 years too late - and eliminate other possibilities. After these I feel he will try to wash his hands of me and pass me on to another specialist. BLOODY HELL!

Anyway, so much for my rant. Time to test the Kefir.

QUESTION: does using sterilised UHT goats milk stop or inhibit the kefir process, because that is what I am using?
05-16-2013, 10:24 AM   #15
Charleigh
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hmmm....why exactly is he questioning your diagnosis? Because your most recent colonocopy was clear? You were diagnosed via a colonoscopy in the past, right?
05-16-2013, 10:42 AM   #16
Paul Cronk
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His diagnosis was based on my symptoms and some inflammation in the small bowel found on his first coloscopy and IRM 3 years ago. Second time around no inflammation but merely put a ? by diagnosis but prescribed Humira. After Humira failed (six months) the latest coloscopy shows zilch. The symptoms however are as bad as ever as soon as I try to tail off the Pred (20mg to 15 to 12.5 triggered a crisis and after 3 days back at 17.5 I am not yet functioning well).

However, before I tailed off the Pred I was feeling better than for five years on the new diet of 3 weeks. So whatever games the docs play I am sticking with the diet in the hope of weaning of the Pred a little later.

It is OK he is looking farther afield for solutions, but personally I am convinced this is an autoimmune problem, whatever the precise diagnosis, and that Imuran together with the diet would be a better way to go about it, given the dangers of prednisone.

He flat refused me Imuran several times as he said he could go to jail if he prescribed without clinical evidence. Time certainly to consider another Gastro but as I said before he is the chief at the local hospital. Is it unusual to have severe symptoms but no actual inflammation _ my thinking is the Pred cleared it up?

After 48 hours my Kefir has done nothing but stay milky and go a bit sour so I may try heating a little but I fear the sterilised goat milk is the problem and I may have to drop in at a few farms which are advertising goats cheese. I'll probably find some stupid regulation says I can't have the milk untreated. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! That's better. Coming on here reminds me that others have it worse.
05-16-2013, 11:26 AM   #17
Charleigh
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Could you have Irritable Bowel Syndrome? I have a friend with that and the symptoms are the same as crohn's but without the evidence you normally see with crohn's. Either way, SCD is still recommended for IBS and any autoimmune problem is usually helped by a paleo style diet. I have Hashimoto's so I have been paleo for quite a while.
05-16-2013, 12:36 PM   #18
Trevor
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I wouldn't have thought that using pasteurized or otherwise treated milk would effect the fermentation process. The bacteria should still be able to colonize and digest the milk as far as I know? Perhaps try some gentle heat as you mentioned, like a yogurt maker.

I'm sorry to hear about the issues with your GI. It doesn't seem to matter where they are doctors just aren't very good at this whole IBD thing.

Perhaps in the short term ask for a course of antibiotics? God knows I'm not a fan of them, I think they are a likely cause of Crohn's, but they have helped me in the past to calm down flares. Especially in tandem with probiotics.

Good luck
05-16-2013, 01:49 PM   #19
Charleigh
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After 48 hours my Kefir has done nothing but stay milky and go a bit sour so I may try heating a little but I fear the sterilised goat milk is the problem and I may have to drop in at a few farms which are advertising goats cheese. I'll probably find some stupid regulation says I can't have the milk untreated. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! That's better. Coming on here reminds me that others have it worse.
I forgot to comment on this, sorry. When you switch the kefir grains to a different type of milk than they are accustomed (rather that be going from treated to untreated or cow's milk to goat's milk, etc) it can take them a while to get fully activated again. Just a thought.
05-18-2013, 05:12 AM   #20
Ya noy
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After 48 hours my Kefir has done nothing but stay milky and go a bit sour so I may try heating a little but I fear the sterilised goat milk is the problem and I may have to drop in at a few farms which are advertising goats cheese. I'll probably find some stupid regulation says I can't have the milk untreated. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! That's better. Coming on here reminds me that others have it worse.
no, you don't want to heat your kefir, might effect your grains. If your kefir is staying milky and going sour, then I have to wonder if you are certain your grains are alive and viable? Not sure where you got them from, but I might recommend getting new grains from a different source.

If using goat's milk, you might want to try buying grains from Marilyn, the Kefir Lady. You can google her. She has sevral goats and nurtures her kefir grains with goats' milk and I only heard good things about her grains, however she only accepts cash, but apparently, will mail out grains prior to remitting payment.

I am not recommending her based on personal experience, but rather from what I've heard from others. I obtained my grains locally, from an organization that was offering them for free, off Craigslist.
05-18-2013, 05:21 AM   #21
Ya noy
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Just the SCD! Maybe I don't handle the probiotic levels well?
Trevor,

I believe the SCD diet was developed long before kefir was available in most countries outside of Russia. If kefir had been available at the time, I believe that more than likely, it have been recommended over making the SCD yogurt. Making kefir is far easier, and contains many more strains of probiotics.

The GAPS (guy and psychology syndrome) diet is an updated version of the SCD diet, and has "legalized" kefir.

Kefir is also recommended on the paleo, primal and makers diets.

You can buy kefir at most supermarkets, but I believe it's always better (and more potent) to make your own.

If you are sensitive to cows milk, it can also be cultured using coconut milk. Of course, there's also water kefir and kombucha as well.
05-18-2013, 05:43 AM   #22
Paul Cronk
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I am pretty much ready to forget the blinkered Gastro and continue without him. I discussed the Crohn's (or not) diagnosis with my GP who shrugged and said the designation is unimportant and whether it is Crohn's, IBS, IBS or whatever he believes in me! He is a believer in 'leaky gut' or intestinal permeability being at the root of my auto-immune problems and we are on the same wavelength. In this context the role of the blinkered Gastro man will be periodic investigation to eliminate nasties. With my GP we will check for C- diff or candida etc before agreeing to measures to improve gut permeability. The SCD diet is great for this hypothesis. I wasted 3 years while the Gastro guy poked tubes up my ass and fiddled with the diagnosis and now I suspect I have been tidied away as an inconvenient statistic. Now we can all be on the same page.

With the kefir I will try again with a second batch of the dried grains and fresh whole cows milk. If that doesn't work there is probably a fault with the grains.
05-19-2013, 06:32 AM   #23
Charleigh
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I am pretty much ready to forget the blinkered Gastro and continue without him. I discussed the Crohn's (or not) diagnosis with my GP who shrugged and said the designation is unimportant and whether it is Crohn's, IBS, IBS or whatever he believes in me! He is a believer in 'leaky gut' or intestinal permeability being at the root of my auto-immune problems and we are on the same wavelength. In this context the role of the blinkered Gastro man will be periodic investigation to eliminate nasties. With my GP we will check for C- diff or candida etc before agreeing to measures to improve gut permeability.
It sounds like you have a great GP ~ what a blessing!
05-19-2013, 09:24 AM   #24
Paul Cronk
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It reminds me of the effort I put in to getting the right team in place to begin with. I sacked my previous GP (all in the head - take antidepressant) to get the good one and I changed physio once also and have a better result there too. Usually the main requirement is having ears as well as a mouth but seriously it is important they are not old fashioned clinicians who only believe what the probe sees. The leaky gut theory makes perfect sense of my symptoms and endorses current strategy.
05-22-2013, 06:23 AM   #25
Paul Cronk
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So I started all over by insisting on a stool test and whadayanow we find numerous colonies of Candida albicans just like the last time I insisted on a stool test more than two years ago and found the same thing. This ties in completely with the leaky gut theory and endorses the importance of my new SCD diet. We'll attack the candida with intestinal cleansing and anti fungal drugs and monitor it periodically. Meanwhile on with the good work and another try at kefir with a new batch of grains and unsterilized milk.

Given there is no longer any major intestinal inflammation but I still have "Crohn's" symptoms I think we may be finally on the right track. The candida infection has probably been there all along. What kind of Gastroenterologist treats you three years without a stool test?
05-22-2013, 08:27 AM   #26
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What kind of Gastroenterologist treats you three years without a stool test?
A lousy one, I suppose? I can't believe he has never done stool tests. Wow, just wow.
05-22-2013, 11:21 AM   #27
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After 48 hours my Kefir has done nothing but stay milky and go a bit sour so I may try heating a little but I fear the sterilised goat milk is the problem and I may have to drop in at a few farms which are advertising goats cheese. I'll probably find some stupid regulation says I can't have the milk untreated. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! That's better. Coming on here reminds me that others have it worse.
Hi Paul,
I just started making my own kefir a few weeks ago using grains I purchased off eBay. It took a couple weeks for the grains to get going, but now it's great! A couple of notes, just from my recent experience:
-for 3-4 days, let your grains sit in ~6oz milk at room temp for 24 hours, strain, discard the milk, and then re-inoculate the grains into fresh room temperature milk. This will give the grains a chance to acclimate to your milk.
-after that, start your first real batch with just 6oz of milk. Allow the milk to come to room temp before inoculating the grains (I got this tip from Ya Noy -- thanks!). Let it stand 48 hours, then strain.
-It may still be a few more batches until you get to the desired consistency. Once you hit the desired consistency, try adding 2 more oz of milk to the inculum. (I'm up to 14 oz per batch now, and almost ready to divide my grains into 2 so I can start a new batch every day!)
-I started out using organic homogenized 2% milk -- but all of the organic milk sold in my area is ultra-pasteurized. I switched to regular (non-organic) pasteurized homogenized 2% milk, and I've been having better results.

I got some great tips from others on this forum -- especially Ya Noy! There's a thread on making kefir in the "cooking with crohns" forum.
05-23-2013, 03:19 PM   #28
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I love kefir milk, and I also make homemade yogurt with a yogurt maker. It's better than storebought yogurt. I use lactose-free milk when I make it and tolerate it well. The fermentation process breaks down the casein as well so both kefir and the yogurt do well for me despite the fact that casein seems to cause me grief. I haven't tried to make kefir yet, just doing the storebought thing so far, but the yogurt - definitely worth it!
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current diagnosis is undiagnosed (possible Celiac disease)

Colonoscopy done August 2013, no evidence of Crohn's seen, biopsies done and one polyp removed.
Polyp is precancerous adenoma

(Diagnosed with a diffuse astrocytoma (brain tumor) 5/31/13.
Craniotomy with tumor resection performed July 2013. 99% of WHO grade II diffuse astrocytoma removed, MRI scheduled every 6 months to monitor for regrowth.)
05-24-2013, 09:46 AM   #29
Paul Cronk
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Ok my kefir problem seems to be they have sent me powder and not grains and this seems to behave differently. I'll try their last batch and then move on to some grains from my local pharmacy instead. Looks like powder too though.

Really need to get this going. In the 48 hours since I started taking Nystatin I have felt better than for as long as I can recall. Clearly candida infection probably systemic is a major part of my problem so need to kill it and prevent return. Good kefir is a must.
09-06-2013, 04:12 PM   #30
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Hello, I am new to this forum, and the "world" of IBS....I had been experiencing diarrhea and abdominal swelling on and off for many months, so I decided to try SCD. The first week, I felt a little better, and the diarrhea started tapering off. BUT, starting on day 10, my stomach BALLOONED painfully with trapped gas, I became exhausted, developed "brain fog" and a nagging pressure in my lower abdomen. I feel AWFUL, worse than ever before! BUT, my diarrhea has stopped, and I've been having formed, brown bowel movements twice a day. I'm on day 15. I haven't done the homemade yogurt yet. Could all this still be die off? I DO feel hungover! As is I'm detoxing. I even have that white, yucky coating on my tongue. What do you think??
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