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Crohn's Disease Forum » Books, Multimedia, Research & News » MAP Vaccine Ready for Human Trials - Could be Used for Crohn's


 
03-01-2014, 06:27 PM   #121
kiny
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Out of curiosity... What if MAP is one of many different irritants tgat initiate what we know as Crohns disease? What I'm trying to get at is that many different intestinal diseases show crohns like symptoms like intestinal tb. Could it be possible that MAP triggers Crohn's symptoms while AIEC causes it for others and etc? I wondering if anti MAP treatment may be effective for a subset of Crohns patients.
RIght, if the issue is an innate immune defect of macrophage function, you would expect there to be multiple offenders.

There is a conection betwen E Coli and MAP, because of the mannose that gets released.

I also don't rule out MAP and posted many studies about it, because people mention H Pyroli....this happend with crohn's disease too.

In 1978, over 30 years ago, they discovered antibodies to E Coli in CD patients. They ignored this evidence for decades, and I'll quote the article, which is really dismissive:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1411820/

"There was no correlation between the number of Escherichia coli agglutinins and the site and severity of the disease or type of therapy. It is suggested that the presence of the high numbers of Escherichia coli antibodies is secondary to the disease process and is unlikely to be causally involved in the pathogenesis of the disease"


Long after that study they started to find E Coli DNA within the granuloma of active lesions in ppl with CD, and now they have isolated live bacteria from people with ileal CD, LF82, invasive E Coli, or commonly referred to as AIEC now.

E Coli needs a specific entrance point to enter tissue, it can't do it through the colon, they suspect it's capable of entering the small intestine, and it does this by entering M Cells, they're part of the peyer's patches, they line the small intestine. But it took years before ppl started taking E Coli study serious, and many still don't.

That's why I think it's good that people keep looking into all possibilities.

Last edited by kiny; 03-01-2014 at 06:44 PM.
03-02-2014, 09:29 AM   #122
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RIght, if the issue is an innate immune defect of macrophage function, you would expect there to be multiple offenders.

There is a conection betwen E Coli and MAP, because of the mannose that gets released.

I also don't rule out MAP and posted many studies about it, because people mention H Pyroli....this happend with crohn's disease too.

In 1978, over 30 years ago, they discovered antibodies to E Coli in CD patients. They ignored this evidence for decades, and I'll quote the article, which is really dismissive:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1411820/

"There was no correlation between the number of Escherichia coli agglutinins and the site and severity of the disease or type of therapy. It is suggested that the presence of the high numbers of Escherichia coli antibodies is secondary to the disease process and is unlikely to be causally involved in the pathogenesis of the disease"


Long after that study they started to find E Coli DNA within the granuloma of active lesions in ppl with CD, and now they have isolated live bacteria from people with ileal CD, LF82, invasive E Coli, or commonly referred to as AIEC now.

E Coli needs a specific entrance point to enter tissue, it can't do it through the colon, they suspect it's capable of entering the small intestine, and it does this by entering M Cells, they're part of the peyer's patches, they line the small intestine. But it took years before ppl started taking E Coli study serious, and many still don't.

That's why I think it's good that people keep looking into all possibilities.

I totally agree with everything you are saying, but the trials carried out on cattle that had Crohn's/Johne's showed that all of them had MAP. When the anti-map vaccine was given to them, their symptoms were reversed and when tested for MAP post-mortem none had MAP any more.
But again, I understand what you mean in looking at both the pro's and con's of the theory.
03-02-2014, 03:34 PM   #123
JMC
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I totally agree with everything you are saying, but the trials carried out on cattle that had Crohn's/Johne's showed that all of them had MAP.
It is important to remember the connection between Johne's and MAP is well established, the connection between Crohn's and MAP is not.

When the anti-map vaccine was given to them, their symptoms were reversed and when tested for MAP post-mortem none had MAP any more.
But again, I understand what you mean in looking at both the pro's and con's of the theory.
Lucky cows ☺

Has this research proving the effectiveness of the vaccine been published in a refereed journal and are there any further trials being undertaken?



03-02-2014, 04:00 PM   #124
AJC - Australia
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Hermon-Taylor's vaccine trial in COWS is going to be published soon, ie in 2014. Long story short, with mice: Conclusion: Highly effective at stimulating the immune system to eradicate/protect against MAP WITHOUT any adverse effect.

Subsequent to this, a trial was carried out in cattle (completed and findings pending publication -due out in the first quarter of 2014)... essentially finding are the same... IT WORKS, NO ADVERSE EFFECTS.

I have the published data on the safety and efficacy of the Vaccine in mice. It is a 1MB pdf file and is in 'doctor speak' if anyone wants to TRY and read it go here
http://www.scribd.com/doc/22178192/A...ratuberculosis

We should all be on the facebook page though - that is where the community can get behind this theory and tell vaccine.
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I believe this could cure crohns disease.

-Dr John Hermon -Taylor is trying to cure Crohn's disease.

Last edited by Jennifer; 03-27-2014 at 02:56 PM. Reason: Findraising link removed. Against forum rules.
03-03-2014, 05:54 PM   #125
JMC
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Hermon-Taylor's vaccine trial in COWS is going to be published soon, ie in 2014. Long story short, with mice: Conclusion: Highly effective at stimulating the immune system to eradicate/protect against MAP WITHOUT any adverse effect.

Subsequent to this, a trial was carried out in cattle (completed and findings pending publication -due out in the first quarter of 2014)... essentially finding are the same... IT WORKS, NO ADVERSE EFFECTS.
Based on the progress so far, there is a good chance Hermon-Taylor will develop a vaccine which will rid humans of MAP. Then the really interesting test will start, determining whether MAP is the cause of Crohn's.

I have thought about this a lot over the last few weeks and I think the research is worth funding even if it proves that MAP is not the cause of Crohns. If you get comfortable with that thought, that it might not be a cure, but moves the science forward, how much money are you willing to give? Surely, we could raise the £100k in a matter of days if people were willing to put in £100 to £1000 each to get that question answered.
03-03-2014, 06:21 PM   #126
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Exactly. The MAP theory has been around ever since Dr. Crohn's time, and it really needs to be confirmed or discredited.
03-03-2014, 06:24 PM   #127
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Ok I have been on Twitter tonight promoting the Facebook MAP page with every celeb I can think of with Crohns or UC. Fingers crossed it gets the money flowing.

03-03-2014, 09:02 PM   #128
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What celebs have Crohn's?
03-03-2014, 10:06 PM   #129
AJC - Australia
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right on JMC!
That is where we are at - we need to rally together and get this proven or disproven.
Personally, if a doctor can prove that I have a MAP infection in my gut, i would want to try and get rid of it. That is step one, develop a test to determine is a patient has a MAP infection….that is what Dr Hermon Taylor is trying to raise 100, 000 pounds for. A definitive diagnostic test. That would then lead to human trial for his vaccine, which currently 'sits in the freezer' in his lab having worked on mice and cattle.
03-04-2014, 05:46 AM   #130
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Like I've said before I would be willing to donate a month's salary to this, even more if I could get my son tested with this test!

I am happy to hear that so much advertising has been already done for the fb sites. But what do you think about the contents of those sites? I think it is quite narrow at the moment. If we wish people who visit the sites for the first time to take it seriously, more content is definitely needed, links to the articles, videos, etc. Is there somebody really working on this?
03-04-2014, 06:09 AM   #131
JMC
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Like I've said before I would be willing to donate a month's salary to this, even more if I could get my son tested with this test!
Why not ask the Prof directly how much it would cost to test 1 person? I would also be interested in doing this and I have the advantage of living only a few miles away from the hospital where he does his research.

I am happy to hear that so much advertising has been already done for the fb sites. But what do you think about the contents of those sites? I think it is quite narrow at the moment. If we wish people who visit the sites for the first time to take it seriously, more content is definitely needed, links to the articles, videos, etc. Is there somebody really working on this?
I think it could be improved a lot. I would be happy to volunteer my time and experience to help. I will write to the Prof tonight suggesting that we form a team of volunteers.

Personally, I would like to see a project plan of what he wants to do over the next few years, who is involved (skills needed) and what it will cost. I think that would help focus people's minds and efforts.
03-04-2014, 06:17 AM   #132
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Hmm… I was just thinking the same right after I sent my previous reply...
Would it indeed be possible to promote the fund raising so that every person donating e.g. £500 or more will have a free test during the development or right after the test is ready?
Does anybody know if the test will be based on a blood sample or something else? If it's based on blood sample would it be feasible to offer this kind of possibility to the donors?
If this was possible (even if it required travelling to London), they might be able to collect easily £100,000, maybe even to fund the whole project until the final completion…
03-04-2014, 06:25 AM   #133
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Excellent ideas JMC!
I would be interested to volunteer also, depending on the skills needed and my physical resources of course. At the moment my son is so sick that I am ready to do anything I can, on the other hand sometimes the disease is so overwhelming that I cannot do anything but take care of him. But I guess this is how it is for most of us struggling with this disease!
03-04-2014, 09:08 AM   #134
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What celebs have Crohn's?
Dynamo apprantly
03-04-2014, 09:25 AM   #135
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I found these lists:

http://ibdcrohns.about.com/od/guesswhohasibd/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...'s_disease
03-04-2014, 10:07 AM   #136
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Dynamo apprantly
Yes, I tweeted Dynamo and Frank Fritz from American Pickers and a number of other people, many of whom have UC

Last edited by JMC; 03-04-2014 at 05:09 PM.
03-04-2014, 04:00 PM   #137
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JMC and Malgrave.
Firstly, i think the Prof has had enough emails from people asking him what is happening!? We all ask him similar questions and he must be tired of replying the same answers...I have several emails here from him and can answer the questions if you voice them on this thread
Did you mean that to sound so patronising?

03-04-2014, 04:14 PM   #138
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I'm sure he did not. It is very difficult to gauge tone in an on-line post, particularly when someone is trying to be informal.
03-04-2014, 04:56 PM   #139
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Does anyone know the Dynamo bloke in England??? He seems like a nice fella. I might write to his manager.
He is on Twitter and retweets quite a lot of Crohn's related messages. I tweeted him last night, I suggest other people do the same. Here is what I sent out:

@Dynamomagician a potential cure for Crohns, now that would be magic! Please support: ...

Last edited by Jennifer; 03-27-2014 at 03:00 PM. Reason: Findraising link removed. Against forum rules.
03-04-2014, 05:16 PM   #140
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Last week, I asked my daughter's ped GI what was going on with the MAP theory and she said nothing.

Is there any info that I can forward to her? Or keep in my file when we meet with her next?

TY.
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03-04-2014, 05:41 PM   #141
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Last week, I asked my daughter's ped GI what was going on with the MAP theory and she said nothing.
From my perspective, working in IT and previously in research, one thing that really concerns me about the gastroenterologists I have spoken to is how disconnected and uninformed they have been. When I am informing them about progress on MAP via an article published in the Daily Mail, you know there is a problem!
03-04-2014, 05:45 PM   #142
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The pediatric GIs are the worst, they are very "by the book" with the holy triangle of pentasa, 6MP, and remicade (and the similar drugs). We brought up MAP and were treated to a condescending dismissal.
03-04-2014, 06:41 PM   #143
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That's been my experience as well. Anything that is up and coming like fecal transplants, MAP, FODMAP, etc are all dismissed every time I want to discuss.

I like to go into the office with journal articles at least to get the doc's attention.
03-04-2014, 08:06 PM   #144
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The pediatric GIs are the worst, they are very "by the book" with the holy triangle of pentasa, 6MP, and remicade (and the similar drugs). We brought up MAP and were treated to a condescending dismissal.
same here, we deal with stony brook university , in new York, a supposedly state of the art research hosp., I get the same thing, mostly shoulder shrugs, I feel all we get is the standard punch list protocol, that I could get anywhere else
03-04-2014, 08:12 PM   #145
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JMC - no way am i trying to be patronising…sorry it came across that way.

stay stoked
03-05-2014, 05:05 AM   #146
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I know the Manchester United star Darren Fletcher has been through a rough time with UC.

I don't do crapb00k but surely it is worth somebody trying to inform him. Sure he could help both financially and getting the word out
03-05-2014, 08:21 AM   #147
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Rick Parfitt Jnr, son of the Status Quo guitarist has Crohns and talks about it openly. He has his own money raising and information gathering foundation - JPR Crohns Foundation - which has its own website.
03-05-2014, 11:40 AM   #148
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Sorry, that should read RPJ Crohns Foundation. My mistake.
03-05-2014, 04:26 PM   #149
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There seems to be many stories about her disease in the UK magazines. I don't know what kind of celeb she is but still:

http://www.ok.co.uk/celebrity-news/s...se-documentary
03-05-2014, 04:37 PM   #150
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There seems to be many stories about her disease in the UK magazines. I don't know what kind of celeb she is but still:

http://www.ok.co.uk/celebrity-news/s...se-documentary
She is a "star", and I say that having honestly never watched the programme, of TOWIE - The Only Way Is Essex, pretty close to the bottom of the barrel then, though can't complain if she highlights the plight of people with Crohns.
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