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09-29-2014, 03:49 AM   #1
syzygy
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Dabbling vs. all-in for diets?

So I've had numerous people telling me to try various diet options including SCD and paleo, but am just not sure I have the dedication to really stick with it. Are there benefits to making some changes along these lines without committing to the whole system? It seems like absolute adherence would make sense for an actual allergy, but that otherwise there should be incremental benefit as one gets more of the problematic stuff out of the diet.
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09-29-2014, 06:58 AM   #2
nogutsnoglory
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For the diehard believers it's all or nothing. Gotchall in her SCD book was adamant that it be 100% strict adherence.

Personally I think any moves in your diet that are healthier can only be positive and have incremental changes.
09-30-2014, 11:21 PM   #3
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When I started dieting (after reading a book on Seignalet diet), I did a lot of thinking and introspection. I not only thought of the benefits for myself, but I also thought of how lucky I was to be in a Country such as Canada where we have access to just EVERYTHING. I was thinking that most of humanity would do anything just to have the chance to eat my new diet, even so many kids here in poverty who still go to school with empty stomach in the morning. The number 1 cause of mortality in the world is lack of access to good drinking water!!! Its hard to understand and accept this...but its sadly reality. when we take time to really think about all of that, it makes us realize how spoiled we are and have become... making changes and keeping motivation is easier after such more global thinking. If you give yourself strong basis on why and how you want to make some changes, the motivation will remain.
good luck!
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09-30-2014, 11:26 PM   #4
Justanothercp
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I follow Paleo/low FODMAP diet. Although a bit difficult a first, the results encouraged me to continue and stay strict. I would start for a few weeks being strict and see how you feel, I hope you find it easier to stick to it if you FEEL BETTER.
10-01-2014, 09:59 AM   #5
syzygy
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I follow Paleo/low FODMAP diet. Although a bit difficult a first, the results encouraged me to continue and stay strict. I would start for a few weeks being strict and see how you feel, I hope you find it easier to stick to it if you FEEL BETTER.
I think I'd do well to get myself to frame it as a "trial" or "cleanse" for a few weeks if I did go all-in.

The tricky part for me is that it would be hard for me to gauge improvement. My primary symptoms are sporadic obstructions, with relatively (and thankfully) few day-to-day symptoms. Inflammatory blood markers have historically been unreliable for me too. Still, there might be general improvements in mood, energy, etc. that would be noticeable.
10-01-2014, 10:33 AM   #6
syzygy
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When I started dieting (after reading a book on Seignalet diet), I did a lot of thinking and introspection. I not only thought of the benefits for myself, but I also thought of how lucky I was to be in a Country such as Canada where we have access to just EVERYTHING. I was thinking that most of humanity would do anything just to have the chance to eat my new diet, even so many kids here in poverty who still go to school with empty stomach in the morning. The number 1 cause of mortality in the world is lack of access to good drinking water!!! Its hard to understand and accept this...but its sadly reality. when we take time to really think about all of that, it makes us realize how spoiled we are and have become... making changes and keeping motivation is easier after such more global thinking. If you give yourself strong basis on why and how you want to make some changes, the motivation will remain.
good luck!
Lady O, I'm definitely down with this level of introspection and perspective and constantly remind myself about how fortunate I am to have so many options in terms of food and health care. The part that gnaws at me is that SCD and similar diets end up feeling "privileged" to me in that they eschew pretty much all the staples that make up the bulk of the world's calories (i.e., rice, wheat, corn, and soy). Rather than eating simply, these diets are highly specialized and rely a lot on "fancier" foods (e.g., meat) that many in the world can't afford.

It's tough to come by firm answers, but I believe these conversations are worth having. Thanks for bringing it up.
10-06-2014, 05:04 AM   #7
hugh
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Lady O, I'm definitely down with this level of introspection and perspective and constantly remind myself about how fortunate I am to have so many options in terms of food and health care. The part that gnaws at me is that SCD and similar diets end up feeling "privileged" to me in that they eschew pretty much all the staples that make up the bulk of the world's calories (i.e., rice, wheat, corn, and soy). Rather than eating simply, these diets are highly specialized and rely a lot on "fancier" foods (e.g., meat) that many in the world can't afford.

It's tough to come by firm answers, but I believe these conversations are worth having. Thanks for bringing it up.
I would recommend reading The Omnivores Dilemma by Michael Pollan, it will give you a good insight into what's going on with food.. I was vegetarian for more than ten years thinking that it was the kinder more sustainable way to live but i see the world much differently now (and did for many years before reading this book, it didn't change the way i feel, but clarified many things that had troubled me)
Honestly, read the book and you will have a better grasp of what is going on with food production. I disagree with the author on a few points but it is an important boo.
Cannot recommend it highly enough
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10-06-2014, 03:17 PM   #8
syzygy
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It's a good read and he's one of my favorite nonfiction authors. My take on it is that Pollan would generally agree with that view of vegetarianism being more sustainable and healthy, though he does point out the dangers of monocropping and over subsidizing of too few staples. He does allow a lot of leeway for moderation (e.g. including some meat if responsibly produced), and goes even further down that path in his recent book Cooked.
10-06-2014, 07:37 PM   #9
hugh
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It's a good read and he's one of my favorite nonfiction authors. My take on it is that Pollan would generally agree with that view of vegetarianism being more sustainable and healthy, though he does point out the dangers of monocropping and over subsidizing of too few staples. He does allow a lot of leeway for moderation (e.g. including some meat if responsibly produced), and goes even further down that path in his recent book Cooked.
I would disagree with you on what he recommends (but i do that alot).
Vegetarian is a broad term and most of it (particularly grains and vegetable oils) are nutritionally deficient, hugely destructive and totally unsustainable. (my take on his words)
Meals should be mainly vegetables and meat (as opposed to seeds and grain). but not vegetarian. (again, my take on his words)

Food should be locally produced and sustainable (my take on his words again)

As far as dabbling goes, without a framework it is harder to work out what to try and weather it is working but many find huge improvements by simply cutting dairy and wheat

Last edited by hugh; 10-06-2014 at 08:43 PM.
10-07-2014, 03:46 AM   #10
Axelfl3333
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I read these diet threads a lot and they all seem to have a thing in common there very hard to stick to and going by reports on here have fairly limited effects.i,m not knocking it totally but a good varied or as varied a diet as you can sustain is best for everyone crohnie or non crohnies alike 20 sausages for a pound or a pound of mince for a pound is obviously junk.
10-07-2014, 05:35 AM   #11
Justanothercp
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I read these diet threads a lot and they all seem to have a thing in common there very hard to stick to and going by reports on here have fairly limited effects.i,m not knocking it totally but a good varied or as varied a diet as you can sustain is best for everyone crohnie or non crohnies alike 20 sausages for a pound or a pound of mince for a pound is obviously junk.
I disagree. I have no problem sticking with my paleo/low FODMAP diet, and honestly feel better than I have in 10 years or more. I'm not gonna say its a miracle but honestly made a huge difference in my quality of life. But you have to have a clue about foods/cooking. It takes time and $$.
But we all are so different, thankfully I have found something that I can control that makes me feel better.
10-07-2014, 06:04 AM   #12
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I saw a Horizon episode recently, and it was pretty clear that meat as food is not very sustainable, a big problem for the environment, and also that meats that are free-range, locally sourced, etc. are not always better in this respect: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04fhbrt
10-08-2014, 05:52 AM   #13
Axelfl3333
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I enjoy Horizon it's one of the better science programmes.did you see the recent one about the huge upsurge in allergies and inflammatory disorders that's happened over the last 30 years it touched on gut flora and fauna and spoke to a few people with theories regarding
children's lack of exposure to bacteria both good and bad could be a big factor.the professor at the end was funny out with his dog and grandchildren in the park.it may still be on I player
10-08-2014, 08:56 AM   #14
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I didn't see that one - I saw the other meat one, that found eating meat is bad for your health. (Red meat and processed meat, they didn't investigate white meat if I remember correctly.)
10-08-2014, 11:24 AM   #15
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there are definately still conflicts in food science and a lot to elucidate. I for one, stick away from red meat and thick meat (beaf, lamb, porc,etc.). The best animal protein according to Dr Hiromy Shinya (Pionner endoscopic surgeon) is cold water fish. All other animals have higher body temperature than us so their fat agglutinate when it goes in our stomach and arteries. Cold water fish, on the opposite, have lower body temperature than us, so their fats transform into oils in our body, which is more fluid and easier to digest and navigate in our blood. Dr Shinya emphasizes on Fishes such as salmon, macquarel, sardines, archi chars, trouts, which are high in good fats omega3.

Cows and beefs are scientifically known to be responsible of a lot of toxic gazes emissions in the atmosphere and unfortunately, their production is widely increasing in the world, especially in South America. i also think that the government and the SPCA should not care only about dogs and cats, but also about the animal food industry which have similar cruel ways to produce and give an unaceptable living condition to those animal that is then after distributed to human consumption. Cold raw cutting of of body parts (nose, tails) to agglutinate the more animal possible in one room to avoid fighting, no access to wild life, sun and grass, food not adapted to digestion but only use for rapid weight gain, anti-biotics, hormones, etc BUT... its Casher or Halal or governmemnt certified... its pretty sad. Organic farming has much better conditions and are more respectful of these living beings and environnement. I for one, can no longer make abstraction of this ethical difference.
10-08-2014, 05:20 PM   #16
hugh
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"Turning vegetarian is the best thing you can do for the environment. Heard that one before? I used to believe it too. That was when I was living in a city and had never grown a scrap of food in my life. Since then, Ive traveled the world, planted trees, started community gardens, and farmed fish. I learned something Id like to share: its a myth that a vegetarian diet is more sustainable than an omnivorous one. The best thing for the environment is not a food system that grows only plants its one that grows vegetables, fruit, fish and animals all together in symbiosis, with minimal grains and legumes........
.......Plants are designed by evolution to live in symbiosis with animals. Remove animals from your farming system, and plants suffer in at least three ways. First, they are vulnerable to slugs and other pests that animals would eat. Second, they miss out on manure. Third, they are deprived of the soil-conditioning services that animals provide by digging and scratching. Farming animals intelligently will complete the ecosystem and actually boost the yield of plant-foods something that has been proven by permaculturists all over the world..........
.....Soil depletion. It is simple: when you grow a plant and remove it from a farm to feed city-dwellers, all the minerals that went into growing that plant are gone from the farm system. This rapidly depletes the soil. On the other hand, when a cow is raised in a field, the nutrients it consumes over its lifetime mostly stay in the field, so the system can sustain itself for a long time."

http://robbwolf.com/2013/10/09/permaculture/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApjL45k3Vog

Last edited by hugh; 10-08-2014 at 05:38 PM.
10-08-2014, 05:47 PM   #17
hugh
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there are definately still conflicts in food science and a lot to elucidate. I for one, stick away from red meat and thick meat (beaf, lamb, porc,etc.). The best animal protein according to Dr Hiromy Shinya (Pionner endoscopic surgeon) is cold water fish. All other animals have higher body temperature than us so their fat agglutinate when it goes in our stomach and arteries. Cold water fish, on the opposite, have lower body temperature than us, so their fats transform into oils in our body, which is more fluid and easier to digest and navigate in our blood. Dr Shinya emphasizes on Fishes such as salmon, macquarel, sardines, archi chars, trouts, which are high in good fats omega3.
That sounds sciency but is totally whacko.
Fats are transported around the body inside lipoprotiens, it' not floating free in the blood settling out to clog your arteries.
Fish is good for it's Omega3 acids ratio and many other things.
I haven't seen a study that separates the health considerations red meat and processed meat, most will count peperoni pizza as a meat so i don't put any faith in those studies. When they do a study comparing grass fed meat with shit food and factory meats then i might take some interest in the findings.

Last edited by hugh; 10-08-2014 at 09:49 PM.
10-08-2014, 10:25 PM   #18
Lady Organic
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''The enzyme factor'' by Hiromi Shinya is such an interesting book, which raises a lot of discussion. He is a GI surgeon and he writes about his experience exploring the colon of over 300 000 patients both in Japan and in the USA during his career. He asked his patients to fill questionnaires about food habits. Most of his statements are based on his own experience and comprehension, not scientific studies. So we take his words or not. He states that saturated fats from meats thicken the blood as opposed to insaturated fats found in fish that reduce cholesterol and make blood more fluid.
10-09-2014, 04:27 AM   #19
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"Turning vegetarian is the best thing you can do for the environment. Heard that one before? I used to believe it too. That was when I was living in a city and had never grown a scrap of food in my life. Since then, Ive traveled the world, planted trees, started community gardens, and farmed fish. I learned something Id like to share: its a myth that a vegetarian diet is more sustainable than an omnivorous one. The best thing for the environment is not a food system that grows only plants its one that grows vegetables, fruit, fish and animals all together in symbiosis, with minimal grains and legumes........
.......Plants are designed by evolution to live in symbiosis with animals. Remove animals from your farming system, and plants suffer in at least three ways. First, they are vulnerable to slugs and other pests that animals would eat. Second, they miss out on manure. Third, they are deprived of the soil-conditioning services that animals provide by digging and scratching. Farming animals intelligently will complete the ecosystem and actually boost the yield of plant-foods something that has been proven by permaculturists all over the world..........
.....Soil depletion. It is simple: when you grow a plant and remove it from a farm to feed city-dwellers, all the minerals that went into growing that plant are gone from the farm system. This rapidly depletes the soil. On the other hand, when a cow is raised in a field, the nutrients it consumes over its lifetime mostly stay in the field, so the system can sustain itself for a long time."

http://robbwolf.com/2013/10/09/permaculture/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApjL45k3Vog
But that's not how meat is generally being produced. This is just an ideal scenario. So as a consumer as things the way they are now, it's damaging the environment to buy meat. Are you able to watch the Horizon documentary where you are?
10-09-2014, 05:54 AM   #20
hugh
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But that's not how meat is generally being produced. This is just an ideal scenario.
Yup i do realise that, The articles are about meat and Vegetable production in a sustainable way, and it enriches the soils microbiome. Amazing really.

I am always wary of having discussions on food ethics with people who don't grow food. As long as it is done by 'somebody else' for the lowest possible cost it will be destructive.
The problem is grain and soy, it is what is ruining our health and what makes CAFOs possible.
Unsustainable (over)production of grain is what is making factory farming possible, and returning animals to farms to eat grass and shit microbes is a big step in the right direction. Chopping down the amazon to grow soy for cattle AND PEOPLE is not, but it makes huge amounts of money for the few who own the planet.

So as a consumer as things the way they are now, it's damaging the environment to buy meat. Are you able to watch the Horizon documentary where you are?
I don't know if you have realised this but.......as a consumer as things the way they are now, it's damaging the environment to buy vegetables too (and even more so to buy grains).
You should look into the way all farming practices can either enrich or deplete the soil, and a mixed permaculture system will be the most productive while enriching the soil.
It just doesn't lend itself to huge crops and huge machines.
Agriculture isn't about producing food, it's about producing money.
The system is so totally broken and everybody can vote in a way that makes a difference (not at the election but every time we spend money).
The cruelty involved in meat production is staggering but the destruction from agriculture is easily as great as from meat.
I buy grass fed meat and (as much as i can afford) local and/or organic veggies and i don't buy food from corporations. I'm pretty happy that i'm doing as well as i can in my situation
10-09-2014, 09:45 AM   #21
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The documentary covers the problems of soy production, etc. too, and makes clear that grains are a big problem too (grown for human food or food to feed livestock). If I remember correctly, I think it was in this one (I've seen a couple of documentaries on this subject) that it emphasises that a big part of the problem with producing meat is that the animals require feed. The damage to the environment caused by growing grains as animal feed is calculated into the total cost in meat production.

I don't disagree that buying vegetables, grains, etc. is usually at an environmental cost too - and for that matter, I'm not against eating meat. I don't claim to be an expert on this, but from the various documentaries I've seen and things I've read, meat seems to be worst in that respect, and I haven't seen much to conflict with that impression.
10-09-2014, 08:49 PM   #22
hugh
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, but from the various documentaries I've seen and things I've read, meat seems to be worst in that respect, and I haven't seen much to conflict with that impression.
It is when it is separated from all other aspects of food production and done a long way away from the consumer.To change the subject (but keep it the same).
A cup of tea........
there is a big difference between growing a herb and making your own hot beverage with it and an industrial cup of tea.........

The same applies to producing meat,
Take an industrial chicken, all it's need come from somewhere (and cost money and fossil fuels) else and all its outputs (except the meat) are need to be dealt with (costing money and fossil fuels)....

Compare that to a permaculture system.....


It is the system of production that is broken, not the food
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