Causes of Crohns

I was recently reading an article which suggests Crohns could be caused by a bacteria from farm animals.

We do not live on a farm, but I took my daughter to a goat petting area every summer when she was young.

Is it possible she contracted something from them?

I am interested to find out if others with Crohns were also exposed to farm animals?

Can only assume they are referring to MAP.

It's a shorthand for M. Para, Mycobacterium Paratuberculosis, Mycobacterium Avium Subspecies Paratuberculosis, or simply MAP.

Mycobacteria is a genus of bacteria, amongst them are the bacteria responsible for Tuberculosis (M. Tuberculosis) and Leprosy (M. Leprae) and MAP. MAP causes Ptb (shorthand for Paratuberculosis) in ruminants.

Interestingly they recently found more genes associated with crohn's disease and many similarities between people susceptible to mycobacteria like leprosy and TB are present in subsets of crohn's disease patients.

Anyway, as to your question, I do not believe everyone with Crohn's disease has MAP, I believe it is a specific subgroup, categorizing crohn's disease as a single disease means you run into a lot of issues. A disease which involves immune deficiencies would involve a number of different pathogens, it is really really unlikely to me that crohn's disease is one disease, I believe there are many different subgroups of crohn's disease. Part of the frustration of biologists is that many clinicians still to this day treat crohn's disease as a single disease.

MAP is in aerosol, it can go airborne, if it's enough to get infected with it I don't think so, I believe infections would be through the water or food supply.

Interestingly, farmers don't seem to be more susceptible to crohn's disease, but there's no reason to assume this has to be true to make the case for MAP, you can just as easily assume that farmers would be less likely to have crohn's disease because they would build up resistance. There are a number of cases of houses clustered around dairy farm that had many more cases of crohn's disease than surrounding areas.

I also find it interesting to go over the list of animals with very different digestive systems to find out which animals have gotten Ptb.

After a while I gave up, because the list of animals affected by Ptb is so large by now that it would be easier to count the animals where no Ptb has been found.

Interestingly, paratuberculosis has been found in a tribe of monkeys, many of which died from the intestinal disorder and underfeeding.

The idea that all of those animals get sick from M. Para but humans would somehow be immune, is pretentious, and the fact this bacteria is still present in the food chain is disgraceful.

I can talk about this for a few pages very easily, and provide you with sources if you like, I find it interesting and it's easy to get caught up in it, I read one study and wanted to read another, I read another, I started talking to veterinaries and biologists and I never stopped reading since then, it's very addictive.

so would you say it is possible to get that bacteria from a petting zoo?

Well it's possible sure, I don't know if it's likely that's all. Younger animals often get Ptb because they come into contact with fecal matter during birth when they're delivered. Animals with Ptb shed large amounts of MAP in their fecal matter, that's how the soil gets contaminated and eventually the water supply.

I can't say how likely it would be, no one know what amount of MAP concentrations would be needed. MAP is in aerosol, but is it enough to cause issues, is milk likely or would you need a very high concentration like a Ptb postitive animal that gets into the food supply and is turned into meat, they don't know what concentrations are needed to cause issues.

Also, ruminants don't get Ptb right after infection, it takes quite a while, often years, before clinical symptoms appear.

We have a local farm that has a goat run. There are a couple different types and ages of goats. It is a pretty clean place, but it would only take one bacteria making it into a childs body that grows there for several years and then something triggers it.

Crohns seems to be prevalent in America, Australia and the UK. We all have petting zoo's. I am just trying to connect the dots. Or seeing if there are dots to be connected.

It is that bacteria that they say feeds off of lactose.

Well, it would depend on the host and if the host can reach bacterial clearance or not. There are controls without crohn's disease who have MAP also in their system (although MAP postitive subjects who have crohn's disease is much higher).

A bacteria like MAP could be considered harmless in host A and pathogenic in host B, depending on genetics and circumstances. (it wouldn't be the first bacteria where this is the case)

I also wonder if it is a fruitful endeavor to try to pinpoint any exposure to farm animals and trying to correlate it to the development of crohn's disease, there are so many ways to get exposed to MAP. Trying to limit further exposure to MAP just in case there is a causative link is an idea I can get behind though.

As far as your feeding question, it is dependent on mycobactin in labs, it steals iron inside the host.

This reminded me of when I fell In my friends barn and was stuck by a pitchfork in my ankle that had cow poop on it . I was diagnosed with Crohn's 3 years ago.

kiny said:

Interestingly, farmers don't seem to be more susceptible to crohn's disease, but there's no reason to assume this has to be true to make the case for MAP, you can just as easily assume that farmers would be less likely to have crohn's disease because they would build up resistance. There are a number of cases of houses clustered around dairy farm that had many more cases of crohn's disease than surrounding areas.

Click to expand...

I find this statement interesting.

No one in my husbands family has IBD. Fourth generation Dairy farmers.

This "building up a resistance" might have some merit.
If your wondering about Grace, she's doesn't drink raw milk like the rest of us. Never has! She's the ONLY one in my family with GI problems.

It's a complex issue. http://www.sciencedaily.com/search/...n&section=all&filename=&period=365&sort=date#

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