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11-24-2006, 06:50 AM   #1
Mazen
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Life without bread?

Has anyone read the book "Life Without Bread"? The author is an Austrian doctor, Lutz, who for decades has cured various diseases through a very low carb diet.

http://www.scdiet.org/7archives/lutz/lutz7.html

In his book he has a section on Crohn's, in which he states that patients suffering from Crohn's disease were treated by a low-carbohydrate diet. After a quarter of year most patients (85 percent) showed remarkable improvement in their health. After half a year, more than 60 percent were asymptomatic, after one year more than 70 percent and after one and a half year about 85 percent. This is in contrast with ulcerose colitis, which Is shown in the lowest line, improvement of which runs much slowlier on the same diet and often is interrupted by relapses.

Crohn's disease generally thought of being incurable can so be shown to be very well accessable to dietary measures.

The diet basically entails the following:

Restrict all utilizable carbohydrates to 72 grams per day


Allowed Foods:
-Fish
-Any type of animal meat
-Cheese, plain yoghurt, cream cheese, sour cream
-All kinds of animal fats
-Salads, leaves and stems of vegetables (asparagus, lettuce, Brussels sprouts, cauliflower, cabbage , broccoli), cucumbers, avocados, tomatoes (in moderate amounts)
-Nuts (in moderate amounts)

Restricted Foods:
-All carbohydrate containing foods (breads, pasta, cereals, grains, potatoe)
-Sweet fruits
-Sweetened Food of all kinds
-Dried Fruits

Has anyone tried this? It seems very restrictive, even more than SCD? I want to try it but it's so hard to stay away from all grains, fruits,.... I'm already on a very strict diet
11-24-2006, 09:45 AM   #2
danika
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I've heard of this and it sounds basically like a pretty dangerous diet unless supervised. I have a friend with poly-cystic ovarian syndrome and she is supposed to avoid carbs because of hormone production and her mum is in the same boat, after years of a diet like this her mum has kidney disease
11-24-2006, 04:45 PM   #3
Cara Fusinato
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Salads for Crohn's? Not me, it'd kill me.

I gave up milk. Ain't giving up bread too!

I come from a line of bakers, I am baking bread, pies, cakes, cookies, etc!
11-24-2006, 08:07 PM   #4
skeet
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If you switch the two catagories, you'd pretty much have my diet!.

Twelve years of trial-and-error had shown me that carbs are what I can digest the most easily. My diet is probably 80-90% starches. Like all of the other diets and remedies that have been discussed here, this one is not going to be right for everyone, but might be perfect for some.

Approach with caution, keep detailed notes of intake & reactions and discuss with your doctor. In other words - be safe!
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11-24-2006, 08:36 PM   #5
mikeyarmo
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Skeet has spoken... and I agree .

Many diets claim nuts are allowed... but any nuts I consumed usually came back out of my mouth, but only after several hours of intense cramps and pain.

Do not feel that you are to blame for your disease if you do not follow a certain diet. What works for someone does not necessarily work for anyone else. Do what you are capable of and is safe. Today we are lucky to have the medical capabilities so that no matter what happens, you will get through this disease. Surgery is often shown as a worst-case scenario that should be avoided at all cost, but in reality it can save and improve your life.

Surgery did not affect my life very much and it has been the best treatment I have experienced so far (including attempts with the SCD). Does that mean everyone should do it? No. Everyone should do what is best for them.
11-25-2006, 08:54 AM   #6
DannyB
 
mikeyarmo said:
Many diets claim nuts are allowed... but any nuts I consumed usually came back out of my mouth, but only after several hours of intense cramps and pain.

Do not feel that you are to blame for your disease if you do not follow a certain diet. What works for someone does not necessarily work for anyone else. Do what you are capable of and is safe. Today we are lucky to have the medical capabilities so that no matter what happens, you will get through this disease. Surgery is often shown as a worst-case scenario that should be avoided at all cost, but in reality it can save and improve your life.
I also have the same problem with nuts as you and I totally agree with what has been said. What is good for one person may not be good for another so its trial and error.
11-25-2006, 12:09 PM   #7
Skinsfan1229
 
I didnt really have time to read it but life without bread seems to be more of a celiac friendly diet...gluten or wheat free.
11-26-2006, 05:40 PM   #8
ruthymg
 
The foods which are restricted are foods I eat very little of anyway, so you could say I'm already trying the diet. I eat all the foods that are allowed except I only eat white meat really. So, anyway, if this diet is supposed to help I suppose in some ways it does but in others it doesn't. I think your crohns flares due to an accumilation of things and not just diet or stress. We can only help so much but in reality, if you're gonna flare you're gonna flare.


Ruth
11-28-2006, 06:46 AM   #9
Jonny
 
I was on a Gluten free diet for a while when my crohns was giving me the more than usual trouble.I took a vega test and was advised to avoid gluten for a bit.
It did help me and i dont eat alot of bread these days as to much of it irritates my tummy.
11-28-2006, 01:26 PM   #10
kieran
 
i can't at bread either maybe the odd toasty, did any of ye try the gluten free bread bought a loaf of it for 6 euro the other day and it's horrible ya have to toast it first but it still taste's rotten!!!
11-28-2006, 04:27 PM   #11
Dekar
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ya, i try to keep a gluten-free diet as well.. nuts go against my body too. and there is no way i can have tomatoes either unless they are cooked

ive found eating fish and yogurt has really helped
11-29-2006, 12:40 PM   #12
Cara Fusinato
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I know this is about bread, but the milk one didn't come up today. I actually dreamed last night that I was in the kitchen drinking glass after glass of milk and my husband was there glaring at me. I actually asked him today if I dreamed it or if it really happened. Funny, eh? I told y'all that getting off milk is really, really hard for me, especially as my husband has a glass of it every night with dinner right in front of me. Oh well, milk = MAP = BAAADDD.
11-30-2006, 05:23 AM   #13
Skinsfan1229
 
so so weird...I have no restrictions, nothing has ever bothered me, except dairy ONLY when flaring though....!
12-07-2006, 11:56 AM   #14
mysticmartyr
 
My body has a hard time with gluten (i think).. which is why i originally thought i was a celiac.

I can't have that much bread. If i have a little it might not affect me, but if i have too much, it definitely will.

I also can't have milk, or at least a lot of it.. i can usually have some stuff that has a little bit of milk in it, but, if it's a main ingredient then i can't.

I'm surprised to see people with reactions to other things like nuts.. my doctor had told me that diet shouldn't be an issue (or at least that i wasn't a celiac), however, it turns out that everyone has a set of foods that they can't have.

I figure i'll switch over to a gluten free diet one of these days. It's a lot easier on me. Although, the breads/pre-made foods aren't that great (you have to make them if you want them to be any good), some of the foods are godsend.. like gluten free cookies or the pasta (you can get presidents choice rice noodles for like 99 cents to just over a dollar a package.. for those of us living in canada). It's just way too expensive.
12-08-2006, 05:19 PM   #15
Cara Fusinato
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If anyone wants an easy and killer recipe for Beer Bread -- yum! Has 4 ingredients total, no rise time! PM me or e-mail me at [email protected]
01-13-2007, 03:12 PM   #16
Jayppers
 
Hello. I am new to the forum - this is my first post. I have read Dr. Lutz's work (Life Without Bread). I have been following his diet for 56 days now, only I do not consume any vegetables or fiber of any kind. Basically my diet is meat, saturated fats (including coconut oil), hard cheeses, eggs, cod liver oil, and dietary supplements. I strongly believe that carbohydrates (of almost any kind) are what brings about IBD conditions and keeps them from healing. Healing takes time, but so far I have noticed positive improvements in my condition. It has taken time to adjust to this way of eating and at times can be a struggle, but I believe there is not other alternative for me. I tolerate fatty meats, eggs, and animal products better than anything else. The health benefits of fruit (and most veggies) to me is a complete lie.

I do not believe that a vegetarian or vegan approach to maintaining or healing IBDs is wise at all - just wanted to share my opinion!
01-15-2007, 08:11 AM   #17
Mazen
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Hi Jason. Welcome, and good to hear that you are doing well on the diet. I tried to do it, but can't seem to be able to, because if I don't eat carbs I always feel hungry or weak. Also nuts and red meat seem to not suit me very well. I'm also concerned about all the talk about dangers of saturatd fat and how it affects the balance of Omega 6 to Omega 3. I guess I'll try to cut out bread and wheat as much as possible and see what happens. Here is another interesting link about same subject

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chri...bohydrates.htm

By the way are you still taking any meds or are you only on the diet?
01-15-2007, 08:37 AM   #18
Mazen
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Another link saying how Crohn's can be cured with a very low carb diet

http://www.biblelife.org/bowel.htm


He says that 70% of our diet should be fat, 27% protein and only 3% carbs!!!! Is this safe???
01-15-2007, 09:23 AM   #19
danika
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Jayppers said:
Hello. I am new to the forum - this is my first post. I have read Dr. Lutz's work (Life Without Bread). I have been following his diet for 56 days now, only I do not consume any vegetables or fiber of any kind. Basically my diet is meat, saturated fats (including coconut oil), hard cheeses, eggs, cod liver oil, and dietary supplements. I strongly believe that carbohydrates (of almost any kind) are what brings about IBD conditions and keeps them from healing. Healing takes time, but so far I have noticed positive improvements in my condition. It has taken time to adjust to this way of eating and at times can be a struggle, but I believe there is not other alternative for me. I tolerate fatty meats, eggs, and animal products better than anything else. The health benefits of fruit (and most veggies) to me is a complete lie.

I do not believe that a vegetarian or vegan approach to maintaining or healing IBDs is wise at all - just wanted to share my opinion!

I did the opposite, I went vegetarian a while ago because I noticed that meat never sat well with me, especially when in flare... I guess that just goes to show that everybody has a different reaction and nothing is black and white with IBD
01-15-2007, 09:44 AM   #20
Jayppers
 
Mazen said:
Another link saying how Crohn's can be cured with a very low carb diet

http://www.biblelife.org/bowel.htm


He says that 70% of our diet should be fat, 27% protein and only 3% carbs!!!! Is this safe???
What this site and Dr. Lutz (among many many others) describe is the ultimate diet for humans. I personally believe this is safe and very healthy. It is absolutely possible for humans to live without carbohydrates in their diet, it's just that many humans are carbohydrate addicts and cannot move past the mythes and lies that we must have them in our diet to be healthy and thrive. In my opinion and personal experience, carbs. are addictive and are keeping people in a diseased state with IBD.

Mazen, I'm guessing one of the reasons you failed on this diet is because you probably limited your saturated fat intake. It is absolutely essential that you eat high fat when doing low/no carb, otherwise you will be extremely hungry all of the time and not have adequate energy. I can attest to this personally. You must ignore all of the mainstream hype that says saturated fat causes heart disease and other health problems. Saturated fat is an incredibly healthy food and is needed for a healthy body and mind (and most certainly a healthy intestinal tract). The lipid hypothesis is not correct and is a lie. It is actually the carbohydrates/sugar that contribute to diseases like auto-immunity and heart disease, etc. Saturated fat is actually cardio protective; It is the preferred energy source of the heart. Many people don't know this, but when people do not consume enough saturated fat, their bodies turn the carbs. they eat into saturated fat. I have been doing this diet for 58 days now and have noticed many other health benefits on top of just improvement with my IBD/Crohn's. I am not taking any medications and never have for IBD.

I would not recommend eating nuts - I do not do well with them either.

Do not worry about the n3/n6 balance. Consume cod liver oil and get adequate n3 EFAs. It is all scare tactics and lies that eating red meat is bad for health. Red meat is a very safe an healthy food - I eat it almost daily!

Also, you mentioned cutting down on bread and wheat - it is not just bread and wheat you should cut down on - you should eliminate almost all carbs for the best results. In Life Without Bread, he doesn't mean to imply that just cutting out bread and wheat is adequate, "Bread" = all carbohydrates. If you are eating even a small amount here and there your system will continue an auto-immune response and keep you from healing - this diet is very strict and must be followed to the letter.

Also, be careful with the word cure when applying it to this diet. I do not expect to apply this diet for a limited period of time and then be able to switch back to my old eating style - I do not believe that this is how this method of management/recovery works.

Regards,
01-16-2007, 03:27 AM   #21
Mazen
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It seems that the SCD diet which was very successful with many people with IBD, covers the same principles, but allows fruits and vegetables and home-made yoghurt

http://www.scdiet.org/1about/scdwhatis.html

Any experiences with this?
01-16-2007, 03:31 AM   #22
fgillette1986
 
Jayppers said:
I have been following his diet for 56 days now, only I do not consume any vegetables or fiber of any kind. Basically my diet is meat, saturated fats (including coconut oil), hard cheeses, eggs, cod liver oil, and dietary supplements.
Hello Jayppers,

Interesting diet theory...

On this diet, how do you meet the glucose needs that the brain requires? How does it avoid ketoacidosis in these conditions?

Wouldn't this diet overwork the kidneys?

How are insulin levels maintained on this diet?

Last edited by fgillette1986; 01-16-2007 at 03:40 AM.
02-25-2007, 04:12 AM   #23
Brando
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this diet is incredibly similar to an anti-candida diet. could possibly be that because you are on this diet you are starving yeast that has overpopulated parts of your intestinal tract (terminal ileum most common spot). sugar is one of the main food sources for yeast and I personally think there is a connection to intestinal bacterial ratios and Crohn's disease.

Eating high carb diet gives the dangerous bacteria living in your intestinal tract a chance to proliferate. Personally, dairy foods hit me like a freight train and breads and things high in sugar seem to irritate me after I eat a certain amount (the amount is pretty low ).

Although some articles are saying high protein diets are potentially harmful for the kidneys, I think there is a healthy balance. I mean think about it for a minute.. People 6000 years ago didn't eat bread, pasta, cookies, milk, cinnamon rolls, etc. as a major part of their diet if at all. Meat, fruits, and nuts were the most commonly avaliable food sources and it didn't seem to hurt them.
02-25-2007, 10:08 AM   #24
DanSJVDavis
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With Crohn's, in the end each person has to eat what they can tolerate. A diet that works for some perfectly could end up being a death sentence for others. If I didn't have carbs I'd have nothing to eat during some of my bad times, unless I ate baby food, and I'm not ready to switch to that right now. Red meat irritates some bowels with Crohn's and can indeed cause blockages in some, illiciting a bit of a trip to the hospital. Likewise, nuts can cause major problems in some with Crohn's. I don't think any diet that's being touted out there is the 100% solution to treat anyone's Crohn's disease. Far as cutting carbs out completely, from what I understand that can be just as dangerous on your body than cutting out any essential nutrient. Carbohydrates give you certain nutrients as well and cutting them out completely can, as someone mentioned earlier, potentially damage parts of the body. True, some folks eat far too many of them, but cutting them out altogether can be just as bad as eating too much. There's much to be said for the term, everything in moderation.

In the end I eat what my body can tolerate when it can tolerate it; and that's really all any of us can do.
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02-25-2007, 10:39 AM   #25
DanSJVDavis
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By the by, the Chinese have been eating Carbs for well over 6000 years without ill effects.

Rice, anyone?

Rice was cultivated in China over 6000 years ago.

Bread is mentioned in the bible and has been made in its unleavened form for at least that long. Grains like wheat and barley has been cultivated by civilizations for use as cakes, unleavened breads or cereal for at least 10,000 years. There's even evidence to suggest that the people of the stone age made simple cakes out of ground barley and wheat.

The big underlying problem with the human race in general is that we don't seem to get the term, in moderation. Someone says something is good so we automatically eat tons of it and then someone else says something else is bad so we go to the other extreme and cut it out completely. In truth, everyone's body is a bit different. If we were all clones of each other then any chosen diet would work exactly for everyone equally, but we're not. We hear statistics and automatically assume they must be right because they're statistics. However, statistics can be twisted to mean whatever you want them to.

And with that, I'm out for now.
02-25-2007, 01:08 PM   #26
Brando
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yes there were forms of carbs long ago, but then again they were not fortified and enriched with preservatives and tons of other chemicals and other substances. take a look at what the ingredients actually are in you regular everyday white bread or wheat bread. there is so much added stuff it's unreal. i would venture to say that bread in stores is quite different than it used to be.
02-25-2007, 01:17 PM   #27
DanSJVDavis
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Which is why I make judicious use of my bread machine and read labels.
02-25-2007, 06:32 PM   #28
Brando
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flour for your bread machine is fortified with stuff too
02-26-2007, 11:05 AM   #29
DanSJVDavis
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I don't use bread machine flour and you can buy flour that's not enriched or fortified if you look around, but I also don't see the issues that a lot of people are suddenly seeing with plain old AP flour.

And just to satisfy my curiosity, a question to all who may have read more than I about these sudden dangers, what is bad about enriching flour? I've been hearing this new thing about having to stay away from anything that says "enriched flour". All's added in it is vitamins and I can't see anything wrong with added vitamins. I can't really see anything wrong with some added folic acid, thiamine, niacin, iron, and Riboflavin. There's really nothing else in there. And as far as bleaching goes, don't buy bleached flour if you have an issue with that part of the process. I love how things change from one thing to another. Few years ago it was butter that was bad for you. Now butter's okay, but stay away from enriched flour. Coffee is bad for you...no wait, coffee's better for you than we thought, but now you shouldn't drink milk. Few years from now they'll be telling folks to stay away from honey because it kills important microbes in your body, but table sugar will be great for you again.

Truthfully, there's more added junk in the premade breads on the market shelf than in bread you make yourself. In bread you make yourself, you control what goes in it, which in the end is always better for you anyway. No whacky preservatives, no oddball things you can't pronounce.

Then again, I've never had issues with bread anyway, so I can't see as that would cause my problems. In truth, the vegetable part of the equation in the diet at the top would have me going to the hospital inside of a month with a blockage, as would eating more beef and fats

I'm more concerned with the junk that goes in prepackaged foods than anything else. The more you make from scratch, the less man-made agents go into your system. Those things weren't supposed to be in our bodies and who knows what they do once they are in there. Heck, I don't even use meat tenderizer unless it's a natural enzyme like papaya juice.

Last edited by DanSJVDavis; 02-26-2007 at 11:29 AM.
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