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Crohn's Disease Forum » General IBD Discussion » Your opinions on Jordan Rubin and Dr. Brasco's Guts and Glory book?


 
02-03-2011, 11:44 PM   #1
Piatchi
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Your opinions on Jordan Rubin and Dr. Brasco's Guts and Glory book?

Hi all,

I've been reading a book my mother-in-law gave me after I was diagnosed with Crohn's, called "Restoring Your Digestive Health" the Guts and Glory program.

In a nutshell, it basically preaches eating like our ancient ancestors --- special lean meats (like wild game and fish, not fatty steaks) and to drink things like kefir.
It also mentions HSOs, which are the probiotics from soil. According to the book, the bacteria in kefir and yeast are more aggressive and will actually run out some "bad" strains of yeasts and bacteria and reinoculate the colon and mucous membrane with various beneficial bacteria.
The co-author Jordan Rubin says he was near-death from severe Crohns and dehydration caused from it when he was 19, and by 25 with fermented foods and these HSO probiotics, he was vibrant and strong, and now without Crohn's.


So... has anyone read this book? What are your thoughts about it? Its a wonderful book and an interesting theory, I just want to know if any of you have went down this road already and how it may have worked for you!

Thanks a lot in advance from a new member on these forums,

Trevor Lewis
02-04-2011, 08:58 PM   #2
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Hey Trevor,
I've read Jordan Rubin's "The Maker's Diet" and have tried to follow some of the diet for the last month or two. I didn't feel well at all when started and honestly don't feel any better right now, but it hasn't been that long either. I do like a lot of the advice he gives on diet with regards to "clean" animals.

I googled him and the word "scam" together and there was a lot of negative info on his schooling credentials and claims on the labels of his products he promotes thru his books. I have also read many positive reviews of his products that many people have swore that the products have helped them. All that being said, I still recently bought and am taking his probiotic (Primal Defense). I take probiotics anyways and decided to give his a try. Again, I haven't been taking them very long and am not feeling well at the moment.

Sorry, I probably haven't been much help, but I do think he does have a very interesting story and diet theory.
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02-05-2011, 11:07 PM   #3
Piatchi
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Jaycee,

Your reply was helpful as could be, definately. Thats the kind of info I was fishin' for.

Tonight I went to the health food store and saw a lot of expensive stuff. I went there to buy his detoxification clay, his primal defense, structured water, and Kefir. (along with a kefir culture to start my own batch of homemade stuff)

I'll be starting on it tomorrow, and i'll tell everyone what I think of it. Apparently after a couple weeks, we should be feeling a bit better on the program.

Regardless, the Kefir is pretty good stuff. I'll probably drink it for life, regardless of how this diet goes.

Last edited by Piatchi; 02-05-2011 at 11:10 PM.
02-06-2011, 04:10 PM   #4
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First place I always stop by when investigating medical people is quackwatch.com.

Anyone with a potentially dodgy background usually pops up here.

http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/rubin.html

I especially like this part:

Rubin's press materials state that he has degrees in naturopathic medicine and nutrition and is certified as a nutritional consultant [4]. However, none of his "credentials" have any legitimate academic or professional standing


As for Primal Defence:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2006/03/gardenoflife.shtm
The FTC’s complaint targeted claims about four dietary supplements: Primal Defense, RM-10, Living Multi, and FYI. According to the complaint, the defendants made unsubstantiated advertising claims that:

Primal Defense treats intractable immune disorders, asthma, irritable bowel syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome, arthritis, lupus, colds, flu, and Crohn’s disease, and reduces users’ blood cholesterol levels;

...

The FTC also alleged that the defendants made false claims that clinical studies prove that:

Primal Defense reduces users’ blood cholesterol levels by 25 percent or more; improves users’ energy levels, memory, and concentration; and mitigates the symptoms of most patients with chronic lymphocytic leukemia stage II;

To answer the OP's question, I believe that this book will be the same as the last written by these men. It will be a platform to advertise their unsubstantiated 'miracle cures' and make money by exploiting vulnerable people with illnesses.
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02-06-2011, 10:38 PM   #5
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Well, I certainly find that interesting about Jordan.

But im not too surprised. I give the book some credit: Dr. Brasco is a board-certified gastroenterologist. With that said, Rubin probably used him as a shield to hide behind. Everything that Brasco wrote in the book was of good information, at least I thought. The stuff Rubin wrote, other than his personal story, sounded kinda cooky at times... but again, Brasco's information was research-backed and sound. Brasco also presented his own diet theories and tried to explain them with research.

The only good thing I heard from Rubin in that book was the story of his Crohns. Who knows if it's completely true. Im very cynical about these miracle cure stories. However, at least he claims that he was 6'1, 110 pounds at one point in the hospital, having tried all conventional medications and most naturopathic medications. Then he starts to swear by these HSO probiotics, structured water, and anti-inflammatory formula. His company sells all three of those.

Dr. Brasco however DOES speak a bit in the book and has some interesting theories about probiotics in dirt in general and how we used to bury our food and ingested the clay and dirt on the food. So, he advises that detox clay and the dirt could have some good benefits. The book also speaks about Kefir constantly... which honestly, I bought some blueberry and strawberry Lifeway brand Kefir and that stuff is awesome. Like I said in my first post, i'll probably drink that stuff for life anyway, despite the fact the rest of the diet is a sham.

-Trevor
02-06-2011, 11:41 PM   #6
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I looked up what structured water was as I had no idea what it was and I found this interesting site: http://www.chem1.com/CQ/clusqk.html
02-07-2011, 02:40 AM   #7
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I took Rubins Primal Defense. Only thing it did for me was cost me money... I flared a few times while taking it. Who knows...
02-07-2011, 03:12 AM   #8
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I thought Rubin capitalized on religion and the Bible instead of sticking to science and research and I have zero respect for him because of that but that doesn't mean that the diet he followed doesn't work. It isn't his though and the things have been done before.

I'm a follower of the SCD (Specific Carbohydrate diet) and his diet follows it closely with the main difference that it's more restrictive but I'll get onto kefir.

First off Kefir you buy in a store is 100% incapable of colonizing your digestive tract (running out the bad bacteria) because the FDA requires that foods in America don't contain active yeast and the yeast of Kefir cultures is required as a base in order for the bacteria in Kefir to survive in your digestive tract kind of like lichen is a combination of fungus and algae.

Also the stuff your buying is loaded with sugar which is horrible for you and counteracts any good you might be doing with the easily digested portions.

The main advantage of kefir is to turn Lactose which is hard to digest into galactose which is readily absorbed.

The secondary advantage of course is that it colonizes your system and when it digests food raises the acid level which slows the growth of other bacteria in the region.

Which is why I'm going to try to get a culture again . Last time I tried (ordered one from an australian actually) I failed to get it going. Actually why I just logged on but then I saw your post and had to say something.
02-07-2011, 08:57 AM   #9
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to answer the op's question, i believe that this book will be the same as the last written by these men. It will be a platform to advertise their unsubstantiated 'miracle cures' and make money by exploiting vulnerable people with illnesses.
This!
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02-07-2011, 08:27 PM   #10
Piatchi
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First off Kefir you buy in a store is 100% incapable of colonizing your digestive tract (running out the bad bacteria) because the FDA requires that foods in America don't contain active yeast and the yeast of Kefir cultures is required as a base in order for the bacteria in Kefir to survive in your digestive tract kind of like lichen is a combination of fungus and algae.
Interesting. I did figure the FDA had some restrictions that hampered commercial Kefir.

Do you have any research about commercial kefir definately not colonizing your digestive tract? How do you know? I dont mean to come across as rude, im just curious.
Theres a website with people willing to share their live cultures, most for free or if you pay the shipping costs. Just google Toronto Advisors.

On that site, I was fortunate to find someone in my hometown that has a batch of Kefir growing herself. I'll try to get homemade kefir culture going after I get a hold of her.
02-08-2011, 03:50 PM   #11
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After I was diagnosed in '05 a coworker gave me "The Maker's Diet". I did like some of the recipes and tried them although I couldn't tell you if they made a difference or not because back then I was in full remission.
I just thought the whole thing was a little over the top in terms of how he stressed that they lived so healthy ... well, their life expectancy was pretty much what ... 40, 45?
And, he lost me when he went on to toothpaste and deodorant, etc.
Although, I have to admit I do like his Living Multy Women's Formula ... so far the only multi-vitamin that doesn't make me nauseaus. If you have other multi-vitamins that are cheaper I am happy to take suggestions. Usually, it is the iron content that makes me nauseaus.
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06-26-2011, 10:53 AM   #12
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Dear Fans of not feeling like crap and dying young,

In the last couple of years I have lost 200 pounds and cured myself of an auto-amune disease called Sarcoidosis along with asthma and obstructive sleep apnea. Lets not spend the precious time and energy we have arguing statistics and other numbers that Allopathic crowd just loves to discuss. You know them right??? They are the guys that proudly sport a failure record on the weight loss front of,... what is it,... somewhere north of 90% failure rate? (a number both kind and generous).

I played their game for forty years and all it ever did was drain my wallet, my vitality and my quality of life. It left me sick and dependent on a whole bunch of drugs, all with side effects requiring more drugs to control.

Finally I quit listening to them and listened to my own hart and personal intuition. It just seems obvious that our bodies respond best to the food we've been eating for the past 4 million years. (RAW, ORGANIC, PLANT BASED FOOD)

Why then are we discussing in this forum anything other than how we can bring our habits in to alignment with what is obviously the best way known to produce lasting powerful health? Why get lost in the rhetoric of the propaganda spread by people trying to separate us from our money at the expense of our health? It's so simple. The chemicals and the altered food are ruining the health of all who eat it.

Lets take another look at the way we rationalize eating the FAKE food that have increased shelf life and has been designed aroundProfitability instead of health. If we just look around we can easily connect cause,... (fake food) and effect,... (disease)

Don't believe the herd masters. They lie. You can feel it in your hart if you will allow it. You can go a long way toward healing yourself, by just replacing the caustic crap being passed off as food, for food that has not been tampered with to increase profitability. It's just a return to the obvious. It will make such a drastic difference that it will amaze you. You deserve it.

My hart to you all,... best of wishes,

--Jordan Hale (healthy 200 pounder)
06-26-2011, 12:02 PM   #13
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... It just seems obvious that our bodies respond best to the food we've been eating for the past 4 million years.
and by 4million years you mean 200,000 (estimated age of sapiens sapiens)

I found this interesting article on Bread, saying that the quick rising loaf could be causing a lot of digestion problems

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13670278
07-01-2011, 08:58 AM   #14
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my son was a patient in NY Presbyterian Hospital for several weeks because of Crohn's disease- at 5'10" he weighed 85 lbs. His physicians said he was one of the worst cases they had seen. After weeks of steroids, harsh drugs, immune suppressants, etc... I stumbled upon Rubin's book, "Heal Thyself" and started to follow his diet plan for my son (I ate the same things and used the supplements as well even tho I was not ill). The book is certainly full of hype and commercial for Rubin's Garden of Life products but hey, that was 5 years ago and my son is now away in college, totally in remission, doubled his weight +, and never had the surgery the doctors promised him. It may not be the end-all book but I believe it to be VERY worthwhile...sift through the hype and there are some life-saving tidbits.
07-01-2011, 12:13 PM   #15
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I know Jordan personally. His story is true. I have taken many different brands of probiotics- his work the best for me. The diet works. I strayed off of it and paid a hefty price. I am going back on it. All thru history, those that chose the path less travelled have been judged and ridiculed. I consulted with an orthomolecular scientist and he totally supports Rubin. I do take other supplements. Nothing works overnight. Probiotics alone will not prevent flares. It takes a multi facet approach.

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07-01-2011, 01:47 PM   #16
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I just read Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human it's an interesting argument how we have evolved to eat cooked food, and a mix of foods. Since we have small jaws, one stomach (compared to animals like cows with 4), smaller colons.

I personally liked it because i've been telling my gi that my stomach can only handle soft foods and the author explains that soft foods are much easier to digest. this also makes some people fat, think of how soft most fast food is.
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07-05-2011, 07:55 PM   #17
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No one is persecuting Jordan Ruben, and I hesitate to even give my opinion on here because the last time I did I was harassed by his followers. Patients need facts, not just claims that can only be proven by buying a super expensive line of products.

I agree a healthful well balanced diet free of processed foods (as much as possible) is a very important component to anyone suffering from an autoimmune disease, and probiotics are very beneficial.

What upsets many people including myself most is the claim that a one size fits all approach "cures" this wide array of diseases, both mental and physical. In my opinion it preys on the desperation of critically ill individuals who will try anything to improve their condition. I've been in that position and is extremely scary, and it disgusts me that there is a whole industry of people who profit from it.

And the topper is the religious aspect for me-did he get a "cure" because God "chose" him? Do the rest of us suffer because we lack faith, either in God or Jordan's diet and supplements?

End of rant.
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07-05-2011, 08:06 PM   #18
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Its pretty clear to me that jordan rubin is the guy that people follow who want to go the "holistic" route. Its generally this group of people who have a negative attitude toward science and western medicine in general. Ive found whenever someone recommends a garden of life product, its almost guaranteed to be followed by a rant about how big pharma is poisoning the country.

I think his supplements are not based on science and evidence, which is what matters. I do not believe the bible has any answers on how to eat properly. There is this idea that somehow the ancient people who came before us somehow had secrets about health. Just because ideas are old does NOT mean they work. *COUGH*ACUPUNCTURE*COUGH*.

Life expectancy has gone way up in modern times versus a long time ago. Why do we think that these stone age men knew more then we do? We know a LOT more about nutrition and health now then we did back then.

I've heard all the anecdotes in the world about how "this diet is a miracle" or "this saved me" or "big pharma is poison and this is the only thing that worked", but none of the science shows it works. Sorry. Anecdotes are close to worthless - I can talk to plenty of people who think they've been abducted by aliens. If you want to do the whole "natural living raw food organic only meditation science-is-evil-jesus-cures-all" route, then garden of life is for you. But I think its overpriced nonsense. Hes been discredited everywhere, has no credentials, and his anecdote about being "cured" doesn't impress me in the least. I think people get taken advantage of and buy his products.

Summary: My opinion is less then favorable of Jordan Rubin and his bible diet.
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07-05-2011, 11:07 PM   #19
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07-06-2011, 02:34 AM   #20
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I pretty much agree with everything kekemonster101 said in his post.

I agree--- the ancients used to bleed people for all sorts of ailments. Got diarrhea? Lets cut you and let you bleed out a pint. Got the flu? Lets dance around a fire and burn incense. There are countless examples of the ancients being beyond stupid about all sorts of things, medicine included. Humankind has gotten much smarter, thankfully.

But I also agree that doctors can sometimes be fancy versions of a pill dispenser. That doesn't make naturopathic doctors any better though. I'd say a good portion of N.MDs are preaching crazy stuff that doesn't work and giving out miracle meds that are not much more than a placebo.

Modern medicine has its flaws, but I believe that naturopathic medication has many many more of them. I would love nothing more than to cure Crohn's without medications and just sticking to a diet, but I was on a very restrictive diet and it just didn't matter. I got a Remicade infusion and I went into remission extremely quickly.

I read the Guts and Glory book (it's been months now) and Dr. Brasco the gastroenterologist (coauthor of the book) had some interesting things written. However, I didnt really enjoy Rubin's portions of the book, as they were rooted more in mysticism than science.

Last edited by Piatchi; 07-06-2011 at 04:25 AM.
07-06-2011, 04:06 AM   #21
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There is a lot of room for dodgy practitioners in the field of complementary medicine. However it is unnecessary to 'throw out the baby with the bath water.' There are many excellent practitioners out there with a sound knowledge of both modern western medicine and the more traditional eastern treatment methods. It is a shame that people seek to write off all complementary forms of medicine when a charlatan is discovered!
For one, Acupuncture treatment has undergone thousands of clinical and experimental studies and found to be highly beneficial in many cases. It is widely used for its regulatory effects, analgesic properties, and definitive biochemical alterations - all carefully and demonstrably articulated in scientific and medical papers. Modern Chinese hospitals combine therapies as part of their normal procedure. They are not treatment modalities from the stone age, but rather treatments which evolved (and continue to evolve) in recent history, from some of the brightest minds ever to have existed.
There is no need to broadly dismiss all non-western modalities - to do so limits the available opportunities for assistance. (It was only a few decades back that psychiatrists, chiropractors, and osteopths were considered to be practitioners of 'black magic.')
Yes, charlatans are all about us.
Take care.
07-06-2011, 04:32 AM   #22
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Im not attacking acupuncture in its entirety, but I haven't heard of it putting anyone with Crohn's into remission.

I didn't mean to come across as saying naturopathic doctors are all shams. I did get to listen to a naturopathic doctor speak at a local meeting, and this particular one was preaching some truly nutty stuff. I think anyone following her advice wouldn't have improved any of their ailments. In my opinion, most of what the N.MD was saying would be advice for people that were overall quite healthy and wanted to feel good about themselves (eating a flower native to the area because it improves brain function?) but not for anyone that actually has a health problem.
07-06-2011, 06:11 AM   #23
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You misunderstand the term complementary medicine. There are a tremendous number of modalities involved, naturopaths are only a tiny minority.
The mainstream practitioners of complementary medicine are appalled by all the sham artists that blacken their work.
As someone who has benefited greatly from Acupuncture (one of the most scientifically studied fields of all complementary modalities) I find it a shame that people with little knowledge or experience tar not only Acupuncture, but the whole field of complementary medicine in one fell swoop!
Yes there are a great many scam artists and misguided people with wild and fanciful ideas, calling themselves alternative practitioners, that need to be avoided like the plague.
And there are some really bad western doctors to be similarly avoided. It is truly a minefield to negotiate, however that is no reason to broadly rubbish the whole field.
07-06-2011, 08:23 AM   #24
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As someone who has benefited greatly from Acupuncture (one of the most scientifically studied fields of all complementary modalities).
I disagree here. Ive done a lot research into things like acupuncture and all I have found is inconclusive research studies. Most often it performed no better then placebo. In fact, I remember one study where it found sham acupuncture (using toothpicks) was MORE effective then the real thing, and also it has been shown to be equally effective as "random" acupuncture, placing the needles in random locations as opposed to the "chi meridians" they are supposed to be placed in.

I would love to see any well controlled studies that show acupuncture was significantly better then placebo - I dont think there are many. (None?)
07-06-2011, 08:52 AM   #25
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Okay.
So allow me to get things back on track. This thread is specifically regarding the discussion of Jordan Rubin. This is not to debate, promote or or condemn the use of complementary or non-traditional medicine.

With the exception of surgery all medicine has its roots in some sort of what is considered "alternative" medicine. Aspirin is derived from willow bark and pine needles were used by native Americans for years to combat scurvy.

Complementary medicine has a place in society and treatment, it might not work for everyone, some of it is outright bogus, and some potentially dangerous. As far as natural remedies go the compounds found in plants may not be strong enough as the equivalent in pill format. Keep in mind we should not be using the term "modern medicine" but "Western medicine".
The reasoning behind why a medical issue exists may not be accurate, but often the treatment works on an actual level and not placebo.

With that said, I still stand behind my original statement that Rubin is a charlatan preying on the the sick.
07-06-2011, 08:56 AM   #26
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There are a vast number of studies, many undertaken recently, on Acupuncture and they are conclusive about it being far more than placebo! It is a recognised treatment even in mainstream medicine these days - though they do limit it to certain areas. As I mentioned, it is routinely used in modern hospitals all over China - and greatly valued.
You can take a look at 'The Vital Meridian' by Alan Bensoussan one day - very informative and thorough - so many world class studies. The ideas behind it are admittedly 'foreign' and hard to grasp for most people brought up with no knowledge of the systems involved.
Think of the many studies that show that very premature babies who are held and touched survive far more often than those treated only medically. No science has yet determined why this is so.
Hey good luck to you kekemonster (great name.)
You are clearly a very clever young guy. I was even more cynical about these things at your age, coming from a house full of physicists and doctors, and me being an engineer. Keep learning! Don't write off everything that isn't western medicine based, some of it is priceless knowledge - and yes, some of it is hokey pokey I'm afraid.
07-06-2011, 09:01 AM   #27
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Hey Vonfunk - your post went in as I submitted mine. Yes we have expanded on the original post!
I have nothing nice to say about Rubin's confusing and often dubious work, my point being not to let charlatans wreck the good work out there..
07-06-2011, 09:23 AM   #28
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handle - I understand, the post I made wasn't directed towards anyone in particular it was just a blanket statement as arguing had popped up.
07-06-2011, 09:25 AM   #29
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healthy discussion I hope!
07-06-2011, 09:51 AM   #30
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Most definitely. We all want the same thing. We all want to be healthy and to feel good. And I really do see the appeal of going the holistic route. The idea of living in the forest and gathering medicine and natural foods sounds like a really peaceful lifestyle that I would genuinely like to live. Honest. (Not saying that anyone else does)

I think the only choice I have is to go with evidence based medicine which isnt generally "natural" and such. I think of myself as a skeptic and I think thats the most rational way to live. It gives good results the largest percentage of the time. If im presented with good evidence for something, there is no reason I wont accept it or at least investigate.

I think the earth has provided us with a lot of medicines, and will continue to do so. But I think where we all can agree is that that are people out there to take your money in any field. Whether you buy into this stuff or not I think we should always have a goal of outting these scam artists and money grubbers. Even IF this Jordan Rubin believed his products had the potential to CURE people, why are they so expensive and overpriced? If I had a CURE I would give it out for free and win a nobel prize.

I certainly have no grudge or hard feelings against anything natural or those who practice such methods. All anyone wants is to live their life, uninterrupted by sickness and disease. But I will continue to challenge both people and their views, especially when I feel its morally just to do so. Its part of my obligation as a human being, as is anyone elses. We just have to try our best to be correct. Thats all.
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