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Crohn's Disease Forum » General IBD Discussion » Naturalpathic Doctors


02-23-2007, 11:58 AM   #1
CanadaCurt
 
Naturalpathic Doctors

Has anyone ever seen a ND for their Crohn's? I was thinking about going to see one just to see what insight they may offer....
02-23-2007, 06:29 PM   #2
pb4
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I never have, although I do take my own combination of natural products that seem to help more then anything eles I've ever tried, mind you I am either allergic or non-responsive to traditional oral RX for crohns.

I use bee propolis, omega 3-6-9, Prodiem stool bulker (as suggested by my GI) and probiotics, I was going 30+ times a day before taking any of the above mentioned, I now go usually a maximum of 5 sometimes less, sometimes more (which is usually during my monthly cycle).

From what I've read most naturopathics will tell a CDer to stop eating dairy and wheat and to take probitocs and things like colostrum and other natural anti-inflammatories to see if you gain any benefit from symptoms.

I myself don't eat much dairy and I do avoid refined sugar and processed foods, as well as fast-foods, in combination with the stuff I take (mentioned above) it seems to help.

Good luck
03-02-2007, 04:32 AM   #3
Mazen
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I once saw one, who hooks you to a machine that reads electromagnetic waves in your body and tells you what foods you should stop. He told me to stop mainly:

- All grains except rice and corn
- All dairy except from sheep !!!
- Strawberries, melons, oranges, tangarines
- all red meat
- chicken

He also told me that i have low levels of Zinc, Magnesium and B vitamines. I was also advised to take Aloe Vera

I tried this and everything seemed the same. Also I had problems with things he mentioned I can eat, like corn and nuts.

So now I do as pb said; I try to find what foods I tolerate and I take supplements. Some regularly like Omega 3 fish oil and a multivit, and occasionally as needed: propolis, Zinc, Vit C, Magnesium, DGL Licorice......

Last edited by Mazen; 03-06-2007 at 05:20 AM.
03-02-2007, 06:53 PM   #4
mikeyarmo
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I have been to a nutritionist, but not ND. Mazen's experience seems to be something that includes both the Specific Carbohydrate Diet and an elimination diet, which together seems rather hard to do. Anyways since the recommendations seem to be based mostly on diet, I would recommend considering visiting a nutritionist if you believe that will be a cheaper and just as effective idea. Just ensure that anyone you see (including ND) is familiar with IBD.
03-07-2007, 05:48 PM   #5
robert.k
 
Mazen said:
I once saw one, who hooks you to a machine that reads electromagnetic waves in your body and tells you what foods you should stop. He told me to stop mainly:

- All grains except rice and corn
- All dairy except from sheep !!!
- Strawberries, melons, oranges, tangarines
- all red meat
- chicken

He also told me that i have low levels of Zinc, Magnesium and B vitamines. I was also advised to take Aloe Vera

I tried this and everything seemed the same. Also I had problems with things he mentioned I can eat, like corn and nuts.

So now I do as pb said; I try to find what foods I tolerate and I take supplements. Some regularly like Omega 3 fish oil and a multivit, and occasionally as needed: propolis, Zinc, Vit C, Magnesium, DGL Licorice......
Wow, that sounds like serious quackery. I don't know if you've heard of Scientologists, but they are a religion/group that have some magical machine that measures some made-up non-existant variable to determine one's phyical/mental/spiritual health.

A machine that reads electronic-type 'waves' and determines what you should or should not eat is beyond ridiculous.
03-07-2007, 05:53 PM   #6
robert.k
 
To the OP:

Personally, I am a huge skeptic of naturopaths. That's not to say that I will not look for non-drug non-surgery treatment options, as they are ideal, but I'm skeptical what training naturopaths actually undergro to receive whatever certifications they use.

An interesting site: www.naturowatch.org
03-08-2007, 03:37 PM   #7
pb4
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I figured out my own naturalpath without going to see a naturopath Dr....I use bee propolis, omega 3-6-9, probiotics (primadophilus reuteri made by natures way) and fibre supplements...I went from going 30+ times a day to 5 or less...I'm also careful with what I eat and drink and I exercise regularly.

03-09-2007, 04:20 AM   #8
Mazen
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Yeah. After my experience I agree with you. And as pb said, we can be our own naturalpath. We just need to read a lot, use our minds, and listen to our bodies. then we could hopefully find the supplements and diet that helps.... Also lessening the stress in your life and prayer is a very important factor.... I've noticed that when I'm on vacation all my crohn's symptoms go

Last edited by Mazen; 03-09-2007 at 04:32 AM.
03-09-2007, 03:25 PM   #9
pb4
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The way I came about self-perscribing was by reading what helped others, so I'd give it a shot and if I didn't see results within 3-5 months then I'd move along to the next thing...I only tried one new thing at a time to see what differences it made (if any) before I added more to my regime. In the long run it was probably cheaper then paying someone to help me find things that "might" work. It seems alot of the naturopaths follow close to the same guideline for CDers, like "avoid all dairy, gluten, take slippery elm and colostrum"....

Believe me when it came to the natural route I was very skeptical, I figured if the big guns didn't help then nothing would...but desperation can change a persons way of thinking sometimes...afterall the big guns were useless to me, I'm either allergic or non-responsive and was sick of going 30+ times a day so I gave the natural route a shot and was equally surprised and thrilled with the results I got...my GI was the one who suggested I take Prodiem Stool Bulker daily for the rest of my life, the rest I figured out on my own and they all work well in conjunction with one another and my GI is aware of all that I take and has given me the thumbs up....which tells me he's a good one and realizes it doesn't matter what works so long as you can find something that does, not like many GI's that shoot everything down because it didn't come from their heads so they don't get the credit for being a miracle doctor....some of them out there have huge egos, guess that's why in my 16 yrs I've been through 4 GI's all together.

Just my 2 cents
03-09-2007, 03:38 PM   #10
robert.k
 
pb4 said:
The way I came about self-perscribing was by reading what helped others, so I'd give it a shot and if I didn't see results within 3-5 months then I'd move along to the next thing...I only tried one new thing at a time to see what differences it made (if any) before I added more to my regime. In the long run it was probably cheaper then paying someone to help me find things that "might" work. It seems alot of the naturopaths follow close to the same guideline for CDers, like "avoid all dairy, gluten, take slippery elm and colostrum"....

Believe me when it came to the natural route I was very skeptical, I figured if the big guns didn't help then nothing would...but desperation can change a persons way of thinking sometimes...afterall the big guns were useless to me, I'm either allergic or non-responsive and was sick of going 30+ times a day so I gave the natural route a shot and was equally surprised and thrilled with the results I got...my GI was the one who suggested I take Prodiem Stool Bulker daily for the rest of my life, the rest I figured out on my own and they all work well in conjunction with one another and my GI is aware of all that I take and has given me the thumbs up....which tells me he's a good one and realizes it doesn't matter what works so long as you can find something that does, not like many GI's that shoot everything down because it didn't come from their heads so they don't get the credit for being a miracle doctor....some of them out there have huge egos, guess that's why in my 16 yrs I've been through 4 GI's all together.

Just my 2 cents
Would you mind sharing more details regarding your strategies to deal with your symptoms? I'd be interested in hearing it.
03-10-2007, 01:01 AM   #11
pb4
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Sure robert.k

I heard about bee propolis at another board (I visit a few of them) about 4 yrs ago, that's when I was going a good 30X/day (including mucus trips and stool trips) and I'm not exaggerating...the bee propolis 500mg caps 1 cap two times/day gave me almost immediate improvements the next day after taking the above mentioned dose...right away my bleeding stopped and so did the pain (I was literally crying from the pain in my lower back and anus with every bowel movement) it also cut back the mucus trips as much of my frequency per day was mucus alone which felt like it was gonna be stool movements but wasn't...and it cut back on my daily BM's as well to about 15, then about a yr after that I added the Prodiem Stool Bulker (simialr to Metamucil) caps (one/night before bed with plenty of water) as recommended by my GI to take daily for the rest of my life...well that really put a halt to my mucus movements and slowed down my BM's too, instead of going many times a day with little "deposits" I was going less times (from 15 down to 10ish) a day with larger "deposits" and it stopped all my severe gas and bloating (although keep in mind at first it gave me extra gas and bloat until my system adjusted to it which is normal even for healthy peeps) 3 months was my adjustment to that....then no more bloat and very minimal gas only at night before bed...no pain, no gain, it has been well worth it, I still take it and intend to like me GI told me to....I'm also able to tolerate eating fibreous foods without getting all gassy and bloated, even popcorn and all fruits and veggies, bran, you name it, it just firms up my stools that much more and no problems getting it out, as you likely know fibre helps with either C or D.

So then I added the omega 3-6-9, (I take one cap twice/day) really didn't do anything one way or another with my bowel habits, but helped the condition of my skin and hair and especially my mood and fatigue (but exercising regularly helps with my mood, sleep and overall healthy too). When I finally added the probiotics (primadophilus reuteri made by natures way with guaranteed intestinal release) one/day, my BM's dropped from 10ish/day to 5 or less (it averages at about 5, many days I go 3-4 times) and the other big thing I noticed was instead of my BM trips being spread throughout the day and night I get it all done and out of the way within the first couple of hours of getting up each day, occassionaly I'll have to go the odd time later in the day or eve but that usually only happens around my monthly cycle, that's known for throwing things out of whack, but still where I'm at now is a heck of alot better then where I've been most of my 16 yrs of having this DD.

Now, my GI also suspects that I have IBS as well and he tested me for lactose intolerance which it turned out that I am, but the probioitics that I take mention that it helps with lactose intolerance and sure enough I don't have to take lactaid pills like I used to so it definitely does help with that.

Keeping in mind I'm pretty conscience about what I eat and drink, mainly water and chamomile tea (known for it's natural anti-inflammatory properties) and very little to no refined sugar, no processed foods and very rarely any fast-foods/restaurant foods. No caffeine either. Water is so important for keeping the bowels flushed, same with the fibre, it helps sweep the bowels clean of bacteria.


So there you have it, this is what's been working for me, now I'm not saying that my regime is "the one" because with this stupid disease we all differ some so what works for some doesn't work for all, and maybe a slightly different combination of things will work better for someone eles...I also don't trust this disease, I know it has a mind of it's own and even if I keep on doing what I'm doing I could go back to 30 times a day, that I don't doubt, but I try and stay positive and figure I'll deal with it when I have to.

The bee propolis is 100% non-toxic, my GI even reasurred me of that and said there's no reason not to take it daily forever as long as it continues to help, I didn't take it one day just to see what would happen (this was about a yr of taking it) and the first thing that happend was some bleeding so I went right back to it the day after that. The particular probiotic that I use must be kept cold, there are no drug interactions with any of the stuff I take to prednisone (my GI wanted to put me on a round of pred while I was taking the bee propolis to see if it might swing me into a full remission but no luck, likely because I've become non-responsive to it after being on and off of it for so many years)....also it's not recommended to use any bee products if you're allergic to bees or for pregnant/nursing women.

I'll also mentioned that a couple of times ove the last 4 yrs I would get proctitis (Inflammation in the rectom due to CD in my case) on and off, but luckily I would get a script of cortifoam to help that, since taking probiotics I have not had proctitis come back, not saying that's what's keeping it at bay, just mentioning that it's been a little while now since having to deal with it (keeping fingers crossed it stays that way).

Believe me, when I've told people what has helped me, especially when I first stared taking the bee propolis and wasn't taking anything eles at the time, people accused me of being some kinda pusher or something, I totally understand but it was hard going through that...it took me a long time to figure out what worked for me and I long suspected it would take more then just one product, but I'm just happy to be where I am now now instead of where I was with 30 times/day and being very depressed and having anxiety and having some serious thoughts about suicide.

Sorry this was so long, if you have any Q's feel free to ask and I'll answer then as best I can according to my own experiances.


Take care
03-10-2007, 01:51 AM   #12
robert.k
 
Thanks SO much for the detailed reply. I greatly appreciate it!
03-10-2007, 02:31 PM   #13
pb4
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No problem... I had a real good sleep last night after all that typing LOL!

03-26-2007, 06:36 PM   #14
Dr. Cory
 
Came upon this page doing some research. I am a Naturopathic Physician licensed as a primary care doctor. I am posting to dispel some of the misleading information regarding this profession. I did my premedical requirements at Cornell University and subsequently dropped out of Cornell Medical to pursue what I believed to be a more healing based form of medicine. I attended a 4 year accredited medical program at the National College of Naturopathic Medicine. www.ncnm.edu In order to become licensed as a physician, I then needed to take and pass rigorous board exams. My classroom and clinical experience matches or exceeds that of any medical doctor. As I stated, I an now a licensed physician complete with DEA prescription rights. I routinely do blood-draws and diagnose through appropriate standard and/or specialty lab-work, refer for necessary imaging studies, and provide appropriate referrals to specialists as expected by a medical standard-of-care. Unfortunately, there are many "Naturopaths" who are little more than lay-healers with mail order degrees. It is important to make sure that your practitioner is from a licensed and accredited four-year medical school. Just like any profession, there are many variations in how a Naturopathic Physician will practice. It is appropriate to find one that resonates with you personally. Treatment should be individualized to treat YOU and NOT YOUR DISEASE.

My emphasis is to treat naturally first, working to restore health rather than utilize pharmaceutical medicine to treat symptoms. This is not to say that palliation (i.e. 30 BM's per day) is not necessary at times. I assure you that I do a great deal more than make dietary recommendations and give supplements. It is my belief that nearly all disease processes begin and are perpetuated by an exessive inflammatory/toxic burden on our bodies. The manifestation of a specific problem (ie crohns) is caused by how we react to this inflammation in our bodies. In order to restore health, it is necessary to change/restore this reactional tendency to a healthy one. A person will gradually get better, but this is a process that can take several years to complete. In this way, you are not expected to take a boat-load of supplements and avoid even the most minute amount of offending foods for the rest of your life. I assure you that we have very good success treating Crohns disease at our clinic - gimmick free.

Dr. Cory Tichauer, ND
03-26-2007, 07:30 PM   #15
robert.k
 
My classroom and clinical experience matches or exceeds that of any medical doctor

That's quite a statement.

Cory, which state do you practise in? If you are permitted to issue prescription drugs and/or controlled substances, that is because of the laws dictating your field of practise in the state you practise in. Most states do not allow NDs to dispense prescription drugs (among other things, such as performing surgeries, using the term 'physician', etc).

I respect your education, but I personally would never see an ND for treatment of any ailment. Although I do not hold the medical sphere of contemporary doctors on some pedestal of infallibility, I suspect a lot of quackery among naturopaths. A 4-year education cannot compare to the many more years of education and residency that must be undergone by conventional MDs.

You seem to really have a passion for naturopathy, and I do admire that, but I'm sure you're aware of the many problems regarding its inconsistent regulation in the US and in Canada.
03-29-2007, 01:45 PM   #16
Dr. Cory
 
Thanks for the reply. I practice in Oregon, and you are correct that each state has specific laws regarding the practice standards for Naturopathic Physicians. On the west coast, we are fortunate to have a broad spectrum of care. As for your feelings regarding Naturopathic Physicians, I imagine you must have some personal experience which has left you jaded or skeptical. As with any profession, there are eccentric individuals who practice "experimentally." From my own experience in Allopathic Medical School, I do not believe that M.D.s have any added credibility or exposure which makes them more capable of treating any chronic disease. They certainly have an expertise in "heroic" medicine, utilizing surgery and emergency interventions. However, when it comes to a chronic illness the art has shifted to diagnosis; wheras, treatment is little more than an algorithmic designation of which drug to prescribe or procedure to perform. I will reiterate that a medical doctor has no more years or education or training than a naturopatic doctor who has graduated from one of the accredited schools. If you would like to find more specifics regarding this issue see the University of San Fracisco based assessments on the profession at: http://www.futurehealth.ucsf.edu/pdf_files/Naturo2.pdf or check out one of the school's websites.

I agree that there is a need for a more consistent federal regulating body for Naturopathic Physicians. This would hopefully weed out more of the non-accredited naturopaths, but this is a political discussion at this point which has much more to do with the pharmaceutical lobby and the AMA than the profession.
03-29-2007, 02:13 PM   #17
katiesue1506
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I've seen kinda what you are talking about... she did give me weirdo natural things to take, but she also focused on my psychological state of being as well. At that time I had just been diagnosed, and as I'm sure you all know, I didn't know how to deal with this new thing and she was sort of a counselor as well.

But anyhow she had me taking psyllium, slippery elm, aloe, and some other things but none of it seemed to change anything. Although I will say that I didn't quite give it a chance either.
04-02-2007, 02:40 AM   #18
Mazen
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Hi Dr. Cory. Since you said you have had success with Crohn's patients, can you provide us with some tips and info on what supplements to use and what's the best diet etc.... That would be very helpful to us. We could try it and inform you if it helps.
04-05-2007, 01:59 PM   #19
aikoros2
 
Is there any difference between taking enteric-coated fish oil and taking shark cartilage? I'm taking 1000mg 3xday of fish oil right now.
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