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Crohn's Disease Forum » General IBD Discussion » That's a new one. bm related post


05-31-2007, 09:51 PM   #1
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That's a new one. bm related post

I doubt anyone here will be too grossed out by such discussion but it seems polite to put a warning of some sort in the title.


This afternoon I noticed two odd objects floating in the toilet after a loose bm. They looked like two small marbles. They were off-white with black marbling. They were pretty small. Less than 1/2" across.

I'm not sure what this was. A gallstone? Something else?
05-31-2007, 10:55 PM   #2
Cara Fusinato
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Wow. No idea, but sounds like they shouldn't have been there. I don't think the various systems are connected. I would have been tempted to fish them out, wash them off, and take them in. Of course, I deliver sheep too and not much grosses me out these days. . . .
06-01-2007, 02:37 AM   #3
old hat
 
The gall bladder is part of the digestive system. They are definitely connected. It is certainly possible for a gall stone to pass out of the gall bladder, into the intestines and then out as you can see here

It's entirely possible but not neccessarily true.
06-01-2007, 06:42 AM   #4
Kev
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Sometimes, you gotta do... what you gotta do. Like the little old lady who swallowed her false teeth said as she flashed me a big smile.. (OK, let's not even go there...)

I would have recovered them... tongs, rubber gloves, whatever it required.. At the onset of my illness, after I'd been seen by one GI, and had my first colonoscopy, the GI thought that I had only a mild case of colitis of some indeterminate type, and that it would just go away.. But I kept getting worse, and my blood loss shot way up, and up, and up, YET no one seemed to take my 'take' on my deteriorating condition seriously. but I had a digital camera.. So on my next visit, I had a 'diary' in glorious technicolor of what, and how much, including blood, was coming out of me. You should have seen the look on that doctors face. don't think any previous patients had so graphically detailed for him their 'symptoms'.

But it worked. Got me another colonoscopy.. which lead to an emergency operation... which may have saved my life, even if it didn't cure me..
__________________
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Dx'd July, 2006
Meds: Flagyl, Cipro, Pred, AZA.. to no effect
Low Dose Naltrexone Nov 2007 - May 2014
Remicade June 17th, 2014
06-01-2007, 08:20 AM   #5
katiesue1506
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Hahahaha!!!! Kev, you crack me up!
06-01-2007, 12:51 PM   #6
D Bergy
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I do not ever want to see your photo album's Kev.

I have heard of stones coming out like this from gallbladder flushes. If you have eaten lots of olive oil or some other greasy stuff it can cut something like that loose.

My wife had her gallbladder removed and she had a stone of a similar size grown right into the gallbladder. No wonder it hurt so bad.

Really is not to many places to hide something like that.

D Bergy
06-01-2007, 05:06 PM   #7
old hat
 
Most people with gallstones have no symptoms at all. Often they are only discovered incidentally as part of a test done to evaluate some other medical condition. I had a CT scan but that is a poor test for finding gallstones and often does not show them. Standard x-rays only show them on around 10% of cases and only some types of stones. There are more sensitive tests but they weren't done because there was no indication of a gallbladder problem.

Here's an interesting but only tangentially relevant article on the use of imaging in the detection and treatment of gallstone problems.
http://radiographics.rsnajnls.org/cg.../full/20/3/751
06-01-2007, 05:40 PM   #8
Kev
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I had the following done to try to find my 'inivisble' gallstones.. the ones that the doctors were certain causing my pancreatic attacks.. X-rays (they showed nada).. ultrasound sonograms (showed NO stones, but had a field-day with pancreatic cysts - which some thought were tumors - that was when they mis-diagnosed me)
then a host of CT (computerized tomography) scans (showed no stones either, but at least it confirmed my cycsts were just cysts, and not pancreatic tumors).. and then I had MRI (magnetic resonance imaging).. Again, it showed no stones..

After all of this, what did the doctors say... Welll, according to them, it obviously was a case of 'microscopic' stones... piled together to block the bile duct.. That is what 'they' said it had to be.. So they removed my gallbladder. Still no 'stones'. On the upside, apparently my gallbladder was totally shot... they (pre my crohns diagnosis) just couldn't put a handle on what had decimated my gallbladder. If they had, or if it hadn't taken so long for the crohns/IBD diagnosis afterwards, it would have been possible for them to test the g/b they removed for the disease.

Since the gallstones apparently were never there, I wouldn't argue about whether they are painfull or not... I would say that pancreatic pain, or at least the pain from those cysts, is not something that I would want to experience again...

The pancreatic pain felt like an elephant was sitting on my chest (right hand side)
The pancreatic cycsts... felt like a knife blade... in two separate & distinct areas.. and it simply wouldn't go away... even at the height of my pain relief medicine.. I could make all of the other pains go away.. but not those. I dunno why. Just got used to living with it..

Anyway, I digress... but perhaps this little walk down memory lane will put into perspective why/how a person can become desparate enuff to photograph their BM's.. All I know is that got me action... 8.5 X 11 glossy prints are available. you just let me know where you want them sent... Seriously, when I'm fighting for me, I don't pull any punches... If those items had come out of me, they would've ended up on my GI's desk at the very next visit (steam cleaned & totally spotless)
06-01-2007, 06:20 PM   #9
Nancy Lee
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When I was in the hosptial after being diagnosed..and I was finally able to get up to the bathroom myself, my doctor had me draw on a pad with a pencil just what my movements looked like each time I went (true story)...and I would show the nurses and GI when he came in each day. There were many many drawings or doodles in a day. The day he came in and my drawings finally looked like shrimp he was very pleased...because my stool was starting to form. I sat there just as proud as if I had given birth for the first time.

Anyway, what I was going to say about these round white with black speckled things you passed...could it have been something you had eaten and was not completely digested?

My sister had her gallbladder out...kept the gall stones but they look like dice!
She kepps them in a jar to show people.
06-01-2007, 07:19 PM   #10
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Nancy Lee said:
Anyway, what I was going to say about these round white with black speckled things you passed...could it have been something you had eaten and was not completely digested?
I am not sure what that could possibly be. I haven't had any solid food since last Thursday. IV fluids only for the first two days and a liquid diet since then to prevent another obstruction from developing before my surgery appointment. The most substantial thing I have consumed in eight days was some store brand Ensure knock-off nutritional drinks.

My bowels have been moving at hyper-sonic speed. The Wellbutrin tablets I am taking are small (150mg), white time release tablets with black lettering like this. I am taking exactly two of them per day.

Maybe they just went right through. The black marbling was just the ink. Unfortunately, I am out for a few days because of miscommunication so I can't test to see if they float in water or not.
06-02-2007, 07:19 AM   #11
Kev
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Well (and this is pure speculation) hi fluid volumes have been known to flush out the system, albeit typically kidney stones. I have no idea if that would also correspond to gallbladder... It seems to make sense from a purely uninformed perspective such as mine. Another possible cause of flushing out items can be related to changes in your circulatory system... nicotine withdrawal can trigger this, or if changes in meds cause a similar situation. My current situation was most likely triggered by my (at the time brilliant) idea to give up smoking... It was enuff to tip my precariously balanced situation out of whack, yet resuming smoking didn't tilt it back... just slowed my blood loss. Now I'm not stable enuff to quit (yet). Anyway, enuff bout me. These items are passed and gone, speculation re what they were, could have been, etc., is now moot. During one of my stays in a GI ward, I too had to diary my BM's, and draw pix, and measure and categorize it. I found it a less than pleasant experience. But the digital photo idea? I'd do that again in a heartbeat, and .. no, for the squemish, these are not for public display.
Just for the medicos... After all, they take photos too. Ever seen any taken from your colonoscopy? I've seen mine. Talk about not for the 'squemish'. But it works
06-02-2007, 10:34 PM   #12
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I was using the patch so I still had nicotine in my system.

I was given copies of some highlights from my last colonoscopy. The terminal ileum looked rather nasty but that is hardly a surprise.
06-03-2007, 01:33 AM   #13
Kev
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7, 14 or 21 mg?
06-03-2007, 10:51 PM   #14
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Kev said:
7, 14 or 21 mg?
21 mg
06-04-2007, 01:24 PM   #15
Kev
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Well, assuming a moderate intake of nicotine from your smoking, switching to patch at that level wouldn't cause a change in your circulatory system. So much for one of my 'bright' ideas..

You know, it just struck me, as I was writing this.. the totally absurdity, completely surreal, nature of this. And, by that, I don't mean to imply that your observation, condition, or your frank and open discussion of this 'event' in passing (so to speak) isn't important, genuine, real.. or anything along those lines.. It was just the... well thought... That if anyone had asked me pre illness, pre-diagnosis, pre this website... IF I ever thought that I would be sitting at a computer comparing notes on what passed from my (or anyone elses) backside with someone I never met, a grown man, and to be doing so on a non philosophical level, but on an intrinsiclly physiological level.... as if we were discussing global warming, or some similar event.. then I would have said back then.. that I seriously questioned their sanity.

And yet, here we are today.. grown ups who've never met, doing so in a totally sincere, earnest fashion.... and the relevance and importance is so real, so crucial.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.. Life is just not predictable. As for those lil foreign objects... If I'd passed them, and flushed them, then I would have said (and please forgive the horrible pun and the extremely poor choice of language)

"Awwww shit!"
06-04-2007, 02:03 PM   #16
Dekar
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well kev, we all have something in common with this disease, and as this disease has impacted our lives it has also made us more tolerant, civil individuals. as a result, we work alongside one another just like any other friends that share some sort of interest.
06-04-2007, 03:05 PM   #17
D Bergy
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I also never thought I would be examining my stool like a new birthday present.
Much less comparing notes on consistancy, smell, etc.

Life is much stranger than fiction, thats for sure. I am not sure I would be surprised if I passed a cannon ball.

D Bergy
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