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Crohn's Disease Forum » Surgery » Stoma Subforum » Ileostomy bag/wafer creasing on skin


10-26-2011, 03:10 PM   #1
robbo87
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ileostomy bag/wafer creasing on skin

HI guys, just looking for a bit of advice with bags. Basically now ive got a little bit of fat on my belly... the bag in one spot is always sort of not sticking and kind of coming lose and creasing really bad. Its always in the exact same spot and its happened today and ive ended up having a leak. Its ok if im stood up but once i sit down it just seems to crease. I use dansac nova bags and also use the mouldable rings as a barrier. When i put the bag on i press pretty hard and also blast it with the hair dryer as ive been told that can help it stick better.. but eventually it will just crease no matter what i do. Is there anything i can put on the wafer to help it stick more to my skin in that particular area?
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10-26-2011, 03:30 PM   #2
Misty-Eyed
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Where abouts does it crease, Martin? I use the same bags, although the one piece. I have a little tyre of blubber below my belly button line and was worried about creasing from when I practised before my op.

Now I've been properly trained, the stoma nurse said to put the bag on while standing up and I press all around the bottom before pressing around the sides and top. I always get little creases at the sides but they are only at the outer edge. She also told me that sitting on the bag before putting it on will warm it up and improve the stickiness.
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10-26-2011, 03:35 PM   #3
robbo87
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sorry mine is a one peice too, I still dont know what bits are what, so by wafer, i mean sticky bit on a one peice bag.. I always put it on whilst im standing up but dont necessarily push down on the bottom first so ill give that a try next time. The bit where it always creases is like to the right side towards the corner.
10-26-2011, 03:46 PM   #4
Misty-Eyed
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Are yours in the new style where the wafer is an oval shape? Just checking because I got given some of the old style by a stoma nurse and hated them so I always make sure I use the new style now!

I think pushing the bottom bit down first makes sense as its the bit of the wafer with the most surface area as the stoma hole is near the top. Plus you can feel for any creases easily through the bag.

I'm still a novice myself but as I'm using the same bag, thought I'd try and help out!
10-26-2011, 03:49 PM   #5
Nyx
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I use tegaderm when my flange doesn't want to stick all that well.
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10-26-2011, 03:55 PM   #6
robbo87
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Are yours in the new style where the wafer is an oval shape? Just checking because I got given some of the old style by a stoma nurse and hated them so I always make sure I use the new style now!

I think pushing the bottom bit down first makes sense as its the bit of the wafer with the most surface area as the stoma hole is near the top. Plus you can feel for any creases easily through the bag.

I'm still a novice myself but as I'm using the same bag, thought I'd try and help out!
I use the old style "Nova 1" bags i think they are called. I have had some samples of the new style one which is a slightly different shape but i found it didnt seem to hold as much in it, and also the sticky part just didnt work for me at all. I put it on and literally had to change back to the old one within a few hours because it just didnt seem to want to stick to my skin at all.
10-26-2011, 04:01 PM   #7
Misty-Eyed
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Ah for me the old style bags were way too big and were way harder to empty. Would you like a skin graft of my stomach skin so it sticks better? Lol only joking.
10-26-2011, 04:10 PM   #8
robbo87
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that might work... lol, Tbh i found the actual velcro bit to open the bag pretty much the same. i have a few more samples so i might give it another go next time i change n see if it sticks better.
10-26-2011, 04:20 PM   #9
Misty-Eyed
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I know this might sound completely obvious, but your skin is completely dry when you stick it on, isn't it? Other than warming it up before you put it on and sticking it from the bottom, that's all I have in my limited knowledge so far. Apparently the new style wafers are supposed to be a flexible fit due to its shape.

Also, I find the end is the bag easier to open and keep open when emptying on the new style. On the old I had to keep resorting to the squeezing the output out of the end. But that may just be personal preference.
10-26-2011, 04:41 PM   #10
Terriernut
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Dansac is usually a really good 'sticker'. BOTTOMS UP for application. You may find standing up works, but actually when you have some lumps and bumps (i had the doozy of a parastomal hernia) sometimes laying down flat and applying bottoms up works better.

And yes, using tegaderm tape helps with creases. (if I could only get it from my supplier, aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggh!)

With my hernia...well, I just couldnt help but have creases and folds! Oi vey what a mess. So bottoms up and stretch, and press, and press, and push and press. And Martin, for heavens sake, try a two piece system too!!! That way you dont have to change all the time. Once it's on good...yeah!!! Good for a few days.
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10-26-2011, 04:56 PM   #11
robbo87
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The skin is dry yeah and i use convatec powder aswell to help my skin. I cant get hold of tagaderm either but i have cut something called mefix into strips and put that over it to help stick but it doesnt always work.
10-26-2011, 05:01 PM   #12
Terriernut
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Yeah, it stinks to not find tegaderm

Can you tell us how you are washing the area first as well?

Oh, and what sign are you?? Kidding!
10-26-2011, 05:10 PM   #13
robbo87
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lol i just remove the old bag by using the adhesive remover spray... sometimes glue will stick so i kind of pick it off, i then use warm/hottish water and either kitchen roll or the wipes my provider gives me to give it a good clean, give the area a good wipe, (which weirdly i kind of enjoy... lol ) then if its got a bit hairy ill shave around the stoma as best i can, very close to my stoma because of the seal a lot of stuff stays stuck so i pick that away as best i can aswell. Then i dab it dry with paper towels until it feels slightly sticky again... put the powder on... stick the bag on and give it a good press for a minute or to then get the hair dryer on it
10-27-2011, 02:12 AM   #14
Gav
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Hi Rob,

I did, initially, try Dansac Nova (however this was 2007 so not sure if they are still the same) and had a little creasing here and there, but when I used my Cavillon Barrier Spray this helped it stick a lot better and I found lesser creasing with that also.

I had a real problem with creasing with Coloplast Assura bags I was using after that. I found out, quite by accident, that the bags I was using has too big a starter hole for me.

The Coloplast Assura I was using was 15mm to 43mm and my stoma is around 32mm diameter at it's greatest. I had some samples of 15mm to 33mm bag and just happened to be trying them and I found that the wafer didn't crease anymore as the wafer diameter was more suited to the stoma. Since then I've not had the problem and still user the Coloplast Assura bag with the 15-33 starter hole and cut to around 32x30mm ish in my stoma shape.

May not be the same issue as you but worth looking at.

Hope this helps chap.

Gav
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10-27-2011, 02:47 AM   #15
Terriernut
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Martin, why I asked was exactly as Gav commented...cavilon spray. Its a wonderful product and really helps the appliance to adhere to your skin. And protects your skin as well.

And yes, google some manufacturers and get them to send you free samples of their products and give them a try. Two piece systems too. Be daring and brave!!!!
10-27-2011, 08:47 AM   #16
robbo87
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What would be the advantages of wearing a 2 piece system?
10-27-2011, 09:10 AM   #17
Terriernut
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Lots of advantages. For me anyway. I can choose what bag size I want. A small one for a day at work, and a larger one at night for sleeping. All without changing my wafer. I can go 4 to 6 days without changing my wafer. Its easier on my skin without changing daily as well.

To change bags takes me literally about 1 1/2 minutes. I can do it at work if need be, and nobody knows.

And frankly, I like having the choice of bag sizes for different times of the day, or for different occasions. Its kinda like options for your wardrobe or shoes.

For a raucous night out I can choose a tiny little bag as well. (i'm dreaming of those nights)

HTH,
Misty
10-27-2011, 12:56 PM   #18
hopeful
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Martin,

I suspect it may be too much powder that is causing the problem.

Try wiping the skin with a Cavilon skin barrier wipe after you put on the powder. It will wipe away the excess powder and also make the skin more sticky.

You could also try using a blow dryer (on cool setting) to blast away excess powder.

For creases, Salts healthcare in UK have little strips you can put in place to resolve that. Or their barrier rings are good too. ask them for samples.

good luck
10-27-2011, 04:38 PM   #19
Nyx
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I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in for the benefits of a 2 piece system. My stool is pretty thick (I know, you don't have that with ileostomies) and it pretty much always gets stuck around the lip of my flange. I like being able to take the bag off and run a Q-Tip around that lip and get it really clean. I also use the bag liners, so a 2 piece system is needed for those.

Hope you get your sticking situation worked out! If you have to, spend the money on ordering in a roll of tegaderm. You won't regret the cost, and a roll lasts a long time, even if you use it every day.
10-28-2011, 03:52 AM   #20
robbo87
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Well i woke up in the night with it leaking again so had to get up and change the sheets and change the bag again. (ive barely had to make my own bed until recently lol) i tried putting a bit less powder on the area, although i always wipe off the excess anyway, and ive been using the barrier rings which usually do the trick, one problem at the moment is that the hole size is about 28mm, so i either have 32mm barriers which i can put on neatly but leave a gap underneath... or the 25mm which i have to mess with and strech a bit to fit. si im gonna have to speak to my stoma nurse and give something else i try.

I have tried getting tagederm in the past. but could only find it in dressing size squares which cost a fortune and wouldnt be much use.
10-28-2011, 03:58 AM   #21
Terriernut
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Martin, ask your medical supplier to give you the Salts SecuPlast mouldable seals. These mould to fit your stoma. I think they are great.
11-17-2011, 02:43 PM   #22
robbo87
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Finally given those salts secuplast seals a go, they're bloody brilliant!... and so much easier to shape than the Dansac ones.
11-17-2011, 02:55 PM   #23
Terriernut
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Yeah!!! So glad they helped!! Alot of folks think they are too thick. Before I peel the paper off them I warm it in my hand and I squish, so you can make them as thin or as thick as you want too!
11-19-2011, 08:25 PM   #24
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the same company that make mefix also makes a product called flexifix. It is exactly like tegaderm, I have a roll at home, it's fantastic.
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11-19-2011, 11:35 PM   #25
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I don't know the dansac because we don't seem to carry them in my province. I do use to have issues with Convatec and Hollister flanges at the time. I solved that leaking problem with the Sensura Coloplast. From the internet picture, it looks like the flanges are similar to the Dansac. They have what they call "body fit" technology and it works great. I haven't had a leak in over a year now and this is like amazing for me. I was often dealing with my other appliance leaking at inapropriate moment over the past then years until I changed for Coloplast.
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