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Crohn's Disease Forum » Diet, Fitness, and Supplements » A question for body-builders!


 
06-18-2008, 09:18 AM   #1
lardossen
 
A question for body-builders!

Hi, I'm new to the forum and recently posted a thread in 'your story' called 'new friendly member, very confused'....

My question:
Is drinking protein drinks, weight-gainers, taking creatine and carnitine good or bad for you? I find it very hard to put weight on, especially muscle and I really want to get a nice, finely tuned body at the gym.
Any tips?!?
During flare-ups I find my stomach bloats and I lose body weight just after gaining some from going to the gym.....

Any advice would be superb.

Thanks.
06-18-2008, 09:28 AM   #2
Jeff D.
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I'm not a body-builder but I'm a Health Science major at college.

My first question to you would be are you in a flare right now. I used to have problems gaining weight and I found out that for four years I was in a flare. I could eat as much as i wanted but because of the flare I gained nothing, so that would be the first thing to look at.

Also, I'll have to look it up but some protein shakes can be very bad for the intestines, creatine has also been known to be a little irritating to the intestines as well. I have never heard of carnitine so I will check that out.

Also, what type of work out are you doing and what are you looking to achieve. Do you want body-builder type muscles, lean muscles, or what? There are so many different plans of attack for building muscle and gaining weight. What kind of weights are available to you? Are you going to a gym or are you looking for a cheaper home workout plan?
06-18-2008, 09:37 AM   #3
lardossen
 
Hi Jeff.

I'm in a flare right now. I was in remission until about a month ago. It's getting better and I don't want to stop training completely while I recover.
I get mixed reviews about protein shakes, but I don't feel like they're having a bad effect, but I'm not that sure. I've only started taking them recently. Carnitine acts as an amino acid to help the fat burning process (it says on the tin), I'm trying to help my bloated stomach but maybe that's a bad idea. Again, I don't know!

I'm quite skinny so my workout is a general one at the gym to help build up muscles to look in-shape. Nothing too big , just healthy. It helps the confidence, right?!? And makes my weight a bit more normal - right now I'm 70 k, 28 yrs old, and about 5ft 11.
It's hard for me to put weight on hence the supplements...
06-18-2008, 09:50 AM   #4
Jeff D.
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Okay, you aren't going to gain much weight while in a flare because your body is going to use most of the energy you are taking in to heal itself. If you feel good enough to work out then definitely do it. It will help out in the long run to build muscle and staying in shape means less recovery time because your body is stronger. I would not take Carnitine if it is a fat burner because you are going to need that fat to turn into muscle. For a skinny person a fat burner can only do harm because it is stripping your body of much needed fat so that you can gain weight. That may also be the reason why you are not gaining weight.

For strength, i.e. looks, go with a heavy weight and only do a few reps, under 10 but under 8 is better. Remember to lift a wieght that you can't lift more times then the number of reps you will do.

For endurance, and you should balance strength vs. endurance to keep well balanced muscles, do high reps and low weight. Somwhere areound 12-16 reps is a good number. This will keep you from bulking up too much and throw some variety in your workout.

Also, remember to keep variety in your workout so you don't get bored. Remember the second most important thing is rest. Allow a day of rest between workouts. Never do static stretches as they can damage muscles and take up to four days to heal.

If you have any questions don't be afraid to ask.
06-18-2008, 10:49 AM   #5
lardossen
 
thanks jeff - i'll take all that into account - i really appreciate your advice.

do you have any recommendations for food intake?
i.e. how often and when to eat, amount of carbs vs protein and fat etc?

should i be eating more than normal as my body needs a bit more to heal?

thanks!
06-18-2008, 11:35 AM   #6
Jeff D.
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I would eat several small meals a day rather than three large meals. It really depends on what your body can handle food wise. Definitely things like fish, red meat, and chicken are good for you body building. FIsh is probably one of the best things, especially tuna but I wouldn't eat the stuff packaged in a can. Your also need a lot of carbs for body building. Don't eat the whole grain stuff just regular pasta, white bread, etc.

This is a good starting point although a little outdated, called Will of Iron

http://www.amazon.com/Will-Iron-Prin...3806845&sr=1-6
06-18-2008, 07:33 PM   #7
BWS1982
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Well to put in my input (I miss working out heavily, I used to be able and allowed to, but due to the severity of this flare, most of the time I'm not up to it, and I'm also instructed not to)....I have been in a bodybuilding lifestyle for 4 plus years. A pure gym rat. I was doing great, deadlifting 405, put on lots of muscle, etc...learned a lot of advanced info.....Crohns and bodybuilding go together like Diarrhea and laxatives....you need to rely mostly on diet to get what you want out of bodybuilding...

To clarify on some stuff Jeff said, you can either build muscle, or lose it, there's no shaping, toning, or any "bulking". It either builds (hypertrophy) or deteriorates (atrophy or, in true deterioration, you have dystrophy, such as Muscular Dystrophy...). So, lifting heavy will not get you too "bulky", as you simply are building the fibers of your muscles (or creating new ones, which is termed "hyperplasia" I believe). So if you already have trouble gaining weight/muscle due to this disease or genetics making it difficult, you shouldn't do any "high reps", as they're useless in most cases. Rep ranges of 5-12 reps, depending on the muscle, will get you what you want as far as growth. The way you determine what reps you should go for, is the bigger the muscle the, the fewer reps in general, it takes to cause muscle tearing (on a microscopic level, that's what you want). For example, big muscle groups are chest, back, legs (quads, hams, glutes)...small would be biceps, triceps, shoulders, calves....You can work out more than 3 times a week, that's fine, but you have to make sure each muscle is getting rest. Experienced lifters will alternate groups so you can let one heal while you pummel another.


For example, here's a good one I followed for a while at one point:

Mon-Upper body pushing (bench press, military press, incline bench, and tri's)
Tues-Lower Body pushing (squats, leg press, leg extensions, calves)
Wed-OFF (rest)
Thurs-Upper body pulling (Pulldowns, rows, shrugs, lats and biceps)
Fir-Lower body pulling (Hamstring curls, deadlifts, Stiff legged deadlifts)
Sat-Off
Sun-Cardio and abs

This routine was a mass gaining one for me, all sessions took around 45 minutes, and sets varied, the bigger the muscle, the more sets I'd do, and less reps per set. For example, biceps (the arm related ones, you actually have "biceps" in your leg too) would be perhaps a 10 rep set, done 3 sets on Thursday of my above plan, but that same day, because the lats are huge muscles, I'd do 5 sets on them, but each set would be 5-9 reps.

You don't need to switch up a workout that's working still, your body will learn to adapt to things (after all building muscle is adapting, the body is preparing for heavier work loads, because you are stressing the muscles to do more), but only switch up a good plan if it stalls things. And DO NOT start out heavy until you learn each movement.

Diet is key though, and if you're flaring, that throws a monkey in the wrench. Depending on what your bowels will tolerate, you should shoot for 1 gram of protein per lb of bodyweight if possible, twice that to three times that for carbs, and fill in the rest of the space with healthy fats as best you can to get to the correct calorie level. You may need to adjust your caloric intake as you go, just try for example 3000 cals a day and see if you gain, static, or lose. This way you can gauge where your Total Caloric Burn (TCB) is, as nobody can tell you this unless you get tests done, or through trial and error. Go for around 1 gallon of water a day (about 3-4 liters) if possible. Space out meals as evenly as possible, but make sure you time them around your workouts well, so you can get maximum results after each session. Get a high dose of quick digesting carbs with quick protein following a workout....gatorade in a protein shake is perfect, and cheap, and fast.

Creatine is hit or miss with it's "irritation" of the GI tract, some can take it with IBD, others not at all. I'm fine with it as long as I'm not flaring, but I've been flaring for 10 months. Carnitine is an amino like you said, but it's generally not that effective to warrant it's cost, because it's usually expensive. And like Jeff said you're trying to gain muscle, if you take Carnitine you will use up valuable calories. Your body will not add much muscle at all if you're in a deficit, so calories are needed to be in excess. Muscle is costly for the body to keep around, so if your body is going to add it, you need to show it it doesn't need to worry about the cost (in calories) to have it. If your body always has excess, it'll get the message that you can afford to add muscle, as your eating enough to fuel it's maintenance. As for weight gainers, many are loaded with simple sugars to get a bomb of calories, real food is always better though, even if you can tolerate a weight gainer.

And to clarify what Jeff said also, you cannot turn fat into muscle, that is impossible biologically, but you can create the appearance that that is happening when you workout heavily, as that will often burn fat and build muscle. The problem is, you really should focus on one or the other. As only a newbie or somebody on steroids will be able to trim significant fat AND add significant muscle (you're a newbie so it'll happen for a while to start) all at the same time. So pick a goal, do one or the other. That's why bodybuilders have "bulking" phases and "cutting" phases. You try to catch 2 rabbits at the same time and both will get away.

When you say "bloated" I'm guessing your talking about abdominal fat, or a slight beer belly....that will slowly go away in time, you're weight for 5'11" is quite low, so your body will react well to a weight/muscle gaining regimen. Let the belly go away on it's own, besides, if you add mass to the rest of it, it'll make the belly less noticable. Big muscular guys can carry fat well because they have the muscle to "blend it in".

There's so much to tell you to start. This is only the surface of it, and I'm probably forgetting some crucial details, but I know I've covered some good basics. About going "to failure" (which is lifting in a set until you fail trying to go for another rep), that should be used, but used sparingly, as you can overtrain if you do it on every set. Try to do it on maybe half your sets, the last half (you don't want to totally exhaust your body in the first half of your workout).

I wrote an enormous beginners guide somewhere a couple years ago, I'll try and find it. I started a facebook group for Crohns bodybuilders, but it's not fully up and running yet. I've trained with some big guys (not as a partner all the time though). Sam Urbach was 2004 Mr. Illinois, and Bill Norberg was 1982 Mr. Collegiate America. Awesome dudes. If you can get an experienced partner, they can help you learn the ropes on site.

One last important thing (I really don't want to overwhelm you), make sure you learn proper forms on each movement first, if you don't know already. Injury will do you no good, and may affect your IBD.

I'll come back here later to speak of some more basics when I get time, as I honestly mean it, this is only the tip of the iceberg, there's a lot of science to this as Jeff will know.
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Last edited by BWS1982; 06-18-2008 at 07:43 PM.
06-18-2008, 08:15 PM   #8
Jeff D.
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Another thing to add is that my health science teacher was telling us about a study he did where body builders ate different amounts of carbs per day, between 50 to 90 percent carbs. He found out that you gain the most weight in muscle by eating around 70 to 80 percent carbs. It seems like a lot but that's what the study showed. I wish I had the study on me but I don't, it was a slide for the class I had with him and I don't have the paper anymore. But I remember that.
06-19-2008, 12:26 AM   #9
BWS1982
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Yeah I've heard of numbers in that area too. For the most part I agree with 'em....if one gets in all their protein and has positive nitrogen levels (meaning that there body has used all the protein it can and there are "left overs")...carbs are the transportation for shuttling nutrients, so they're a big help.

Again a problem arises when one is not able to eat so many carbs (as we have seen many studies show lower carb consumption can curtail IBD symptoms sometimes)....I swear out of all diseases for a bodybuilder to get.
06-19-2008, 12:39 AM   #10
BWS1982
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From my facebook group of bodybuilding Crohnies....

06-19-2008, 12:43 AM   #11
Jeff D.
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Lowering carbs has never helped me much so I eat a ton of carbs a day. I just need to get back to lifting. Luckily when school starts I get free access to an amazing gym. It's brand new with every piece of equipment I would ever need. Now they just need a pool for these 90 degree plus days.lol
06-19-2008, 01:00 AM   #12
BWS1982
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Carb cycling, as brutal as it is, helps me immensely when I actually want to cut off fat and retain muscle (a difficult feat, as many don't know). But I'm ready to take a damn nap on my no carb days half way through, it's not just no carbs (less than 15 grams) but it's the lowest calorie intake of the cycle too.....harsh stuff.


I envy you and that gym Jeff, but as of now I'm not allowed to be lifting anyways. Is it free or extra?
06-19-2008, 01:05 AM   #13
Jeff D.
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It's completely free for me since I'm a student. For other's it's like 50 a month or something crazy like that. I feel like I need to get into shape so I can lift.lol I'm starting tomorrow with a 4 mile walk though because I have some extra fat from pred that I need to get off, I'm also going to be doing some bodyweight exercises. Then by the time I start school I will be in enough shape to start doing some real exercises. I like to start with a little base so I can actually lift more than 10 pounds.
06-19-2008, 01:36 AM   #14
BWS1982
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I would always tell newbies (not that you're one, just saying) to remember everyone starts somewhere....Jay Cutler (Google image search him, he's one of the biggest and best right now) started out at something low like 130 lbs. at nearly 6 feet back in his youth.

IMO I'd actually tell you to just skip any fat loss, I can almost guarantee you'll see it slowly slide off as you put on muscle and lift hard and eat well, but it's your choice.

Something you said reminded me of Steven Wright:

"My doctor said I shouldn't work out until I'm in better shape.....I told him okay don't send me a bill until I pay you"...pure genius!
06-19-2008, 01:49 AM   #15
Jeff D.
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Well one of the reasons for burning the fat is because I'm into a discipline called Parkour where you need to be able to run at high speed for a long time and then throw in jumps and other things. That's mostly what I train for. I'm starting out walking because I just want to work on my heart rate right now and after a few days will start to jog and then run and go from there.

The last time I did something like this was two summers ago and I wasn't feeling 100% then but I got my vertical leap to go from 20 inches to 32 inches in two months time. I went from doing 15 pushups tops to almost being able to do a handstand from a seated position. I personally like bodyweight exercises more than weighted exercises but I know I need some weights in my exercise program. In a month or so I'm getting a new house and I'm going to install a pull up bar so I can do pull ups, hanging crunches, and muscle ups. By the time I'm done that I will be ready to add a few inches to my vertical leap at the gym because you need a good core to jump high. I can't do bench press because of my shoulder so I will be doing shoulder exercises until I get it strong enough to do bench press.

I'm going to be training for Parkour, beach volleyball, and soccer all of which need a lot of stamina, especially in this heat, and some strength. I work on more of a lean muscle than a bulky muscle. Just because they are bigger doesn't mean they are stronger. I like to build very strong but small muscles which work better for what I do.
06-19-2008, 06:11 PM   #16
BWS1982
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That makes sense. It sounds similar to Jason Stathams views, the actor from Transporter and Crank. He said "big guys look good yeah [referring to guys like the Rock] but I want functional muscle" He'd rather be able to move quickly than look bigger. He has some decent size and great speed, he used to be an olympic diver in the UK. To each their own. I want both too, but I'd like to still be around 220lbs ~8% bodyfat. Something like Vin Diesel perhaps...and get back into martial arts again. I only did it briefly as a teen and would like to try it out again in the future, while having a good amount of muscle. It's all about how you can train both goals simultaneously. The Rock can move surprisingly fast for his size, they talk about it in the behind the scenes on The Rundown.

You're right, muscle size does not always equate strength, strength is related to your CNS or your Central Nervous System....you need to activate the muscle fibers you have, which is why smart bodybuilders will often train in different rep ranges to continue to progress both size and strength, so as to avoid a plateau. You can train your CNS just as you train your muscles, by varying reps. My proudest lift when I was in my prime before the flare was I hit a max of 405 lbs on deadlifting. I miss my lifting days.

Yeah, parkour is amazing to watch, but you wouldn't catch me doing it. I'm sure I could train for it, but it's one of those things that I would rather not risk the injuries (I know you can do it safely, but still, sh&t happens).

There's a videogame coming out later I think this year, called "Mirror's Edge" and it's a first person action title where you are doing Parkour all over a metropolitan city on rooftops, skyscrapers etc... as the action unfolds. Like living a Jackie Chan movie kind of. It looks really cool.


here's a screenshot: http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/wp-co..._281_2_big.jpg

Last edited by BWS1982; 06-19-2008 at 06:14 PM.
06-19-2008, 06:24 PM   #17
Jeff D.
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Yeah it took me a month to learn how to do a simple roll and you wouldn't believe how many bruises I got.lol

405 deadlift that's crazy.
06-20-2008, 05:41 AM   #18
GregD
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Hey,
I'm glad somebody brought up this topic. I used to be really into weightlifting in highschool. I have since taken about a five year break and am only recently getting back into it. I've done some research on supplements and found some that are supposed to be very effective. Can anybody tell me if any of these products seem to contain anything that would be harmful to people with Crohns? Thanks.

NO Explode
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/bsn/xplode.html

Cellmass
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/bsn/cell.html

Nitrix
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/bsn/nitrix.html
06-20-2008, 09:37 AM   #19
Jeff D.
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Personally I don't like using supplements too much but it really depends on what you are looking to achieve. Are you trying to get really big, then the use of supplements is probably something you need but if you are not trying to look like one of the bodybuilders then I wouldn't take them.
06-20-2008, 12:32 PM   #20
lardossen
 
Guys, thanks so much for your responses - especially Jeff - what a load of information. I'm stunned someone could be nice enough to take the time to actually educate me on the topic in such detail.

Really, really appreciated.

To clarify something i didn't realise i omitted - as i'm quite skinny i'm not so focussed (for the moment) on bulking up, but actually getting an athletic and toned figure.

Am I still ok to take onboard what you've said??

Thank you!

Last edited by lardossen; 06-20-2008 at 12:49 PM.
06-20-2008, 09:55 PM   #21
Jeff D.
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Hey no problem. If you are looking to get a more athletic body then yeah what I said should work. Also, if you can tell us what kind of equipment you have at the gym it would be very useful. If you want to start out doing some bodyweight exercises I would recomend this site highly.

http://www.bodyweightculture.com/

They have a load of information on getting fit and different exercises you can do with everday objects.

Also, I forgot if you were flaring right now. If you are and you are having D I would recomend staying away from lower body exercises as they may, will definitely, make you have to go run to the bathroom. If thats the case then walking should be a good exercise for you.

Let us know about the gym situation. If they have a pool it would be good for whole body cardio.

I'm sorry I don't know how to do conversions from kilo to pounds. But are you trying to lose or gain some weight.
06-20-2008, 09:58 PM   #22
jed
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1 pound is just under half a kilo
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Current meds - Methotrexate, the rest werent doing anything.
Current state - hopeing poop softener, honey and cinnamon tea make me poop like a crohnie again..

my story - http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=3093
06-20-2008, 10:06 PM   #23
Jeff D.
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Cool thanks, I'll try to figure it out. I'm terrible at Math.lol
06-20-2008, 10:17 PM   #24
BWS1982
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There are not really two ways to head in terms of direction with a physique that you want. The athletic build you speak of (I can think of off hand Brad Pitt from Fight Club) and the "bodybuilder" physique (like John Cena and Arnold) are not really gone about in too much a different way when you start out. The main difference (and this is important) is how long you spend building the physique. They all are similar routines and methods and practices, but the bodybuilders just keep going after the point that Ryan Reynolds or Jason Statham would stop at (or even someone very skinny with little fat like David Beckham). You can train like a bodybuilder and not end up looking like one. Trust me, it takes years and years to start to look "bulky". Just train as I had specified and that will add muscle the most efficiently, when you get to around the amount you want, start focusing on the fat loss (as you'll probably gain a bit while gaining the muscle). If you found you lost too much muscle while trimming fat, go back briefly to gaining muscle. Again, trust me, you not going to magically activate some hidden trigger that packs on muscle too fast, you'll see it gaining and you can stop when you want to. Adding good solid lean muscle is hard work, and it's even harder to keep it while trimming substantial fat. Watch and aim for about a pound a week in gains (which would be around 500 cals extra a day above maintenance), and if conditions are good, most will be lean muscle.

My point being in summary, that you would do great adding muscle the fastest doing things "like a bodybuilder" and just stopping when you meet your personal goals. Muscle doesn't have different shapes, just different size, it cannot be built "wrong", just bigger. There's not a difference in building what people call a "toned body" (I hate that term) and building The Rock's body, except how long you spend doing it.

And as for the supplements, same thing, they won't make you "look like a bodybuilder" because there's no magic supplement. Trust me, otherwise every frat boy who lifts once a month would have biceps like Arnie. They help only so much, as that's why they're termed "supplements", they supplement your supposedly already honed diet. The supplements you linked up above are NO2 products, and I have used them myself, they do help some, mainly with dilating your veins and capalaries, which widens the pathway for nutrient delivery, thus, making growth/healing a more efficient process. You won't get miracles out of them, and in fact, creatine is more effective (some products contain both products) and I'd say start with that. The NO2 products may upset your bowels if you're flaring. Try and ease in one change at a time to see what you'll tolerate.

Diet will get you 90% of your success, without it, your toast. Lift hard and heavy (once you know the exercises), eat big, and rest (sleep) as often as possible (growth occurs in highest rates while sleeping), you'll start to see a difference. Once you've gotten your desired muscle mass, go after any excess fat. I've done this process a dozen times, and seen it and helped train friends through it, there's never an incident where someone went "shite! I went to far, and got too big, now what?!"....doesn't happen that way.
06-20-2008, 10:25 PM   #25
jed
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Jeff D. said:
Cool thanks, I'll try to figure it out. I'm terrible at Math.lol
he he, work it out the easy way
http://www.healthyweightforum.org/eng/converter.asp
06-20-2008, 10:40 PM   #26
Jeff D.
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^^^
Thanks for that I fugured it out.lol

Hey Benson:
I was studying how the bodybuilding way is not the right way all the time to gain muscle. I need to find the book it was in and I won't be home for most of the weekend so I will look for it on Monday.

It talked about how gaining muscle fast leads to weaker muscles than the slow progress method. An alternative would be for the first month to do a bodybuilding program and switch to slow progress so that you start off with quick gains and then you use other methods ot get the same result. It will result in stronger muscles in the end.

The one thing I would like to point out as well is that body weight exercises should be done with every workout as they focus mostly on broad muscle groups rather than isolating a muscle. You may think thats not a good thing but it will work out those small muscles you never thought you had until you did the exercise.

Take a burpee:
It's a pushup mixed with standing up and doing a jump after. Check out the forum I provided above for what it is and variations.

But in doing it you work out your entire body. You will feel it from your fingers to your toes.

I hope that helps I'm going to try to find that book or study off the internet in the next few days.
06-21-2008, 12:54 AM   #27
BWS1982
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Well in all honesty the only "quick" or "fast" way to gain muscle is through the use of the steroids that we DON'T take (anabolic)...but I see what the concept means. Even the "bodybuilding way" of gaining takes years, but it's usually the fastest way to pack on muscle out of anything. Like I said above a bit, you can wave (alternate) your focus from strength and size back and forth so you don't lose out on them, and put a focus even more so on what you desire most. Me personally I want size first, then strength, but some strength is required to continue with size. I also desire some flexibility so I don't become statue-esque and avoid injury. Again it depends on goals IMO.

Bodyweight exercises are nice and have their place in training the core, but I would note that at some point many intermediate and advanced lifters will not see anything from them other than some possible endurance or flexibility advances, not in strength. When you're getting to the point that you can lift much more than your bodyweight in size, even a couple TIMES your bodyweight, then it will take too many reps to make strength progress, and endurance is the only gain from it. Strength rep ranges need to be 10 and below in most cases. For example, if one can do about 20 pushups or more, I'd recommend to them to use pushups for endurance (like if they play sports heavily it may help), but if they want to get bigger and stronger, that's not enough resistance. A good example of how size is correlated to rep/stress is a marathon runner and a sprinter....the marathon runner is very lanky and skinny with not much muscle to speak of. A sprinter has very thick muscular thighs etc... because using a muscle less, but with more force when it is used, will result in size and strength gains, while many minor repetitions will result in an increase in endurance.

We have 2 main types of muscle fibers, Type I and Type II...type 1 are for endurance and are often called the slow twitch or red muscle fibers and are great for endurance due to heavy concentrations of capillaries (for aerobic work)....and type 2 have 3 subgroups, but in short, are great for anaerobic work (except for type 1 a, which can be aerobic still) like heavy lifting and fast movements, and often called the fast twitch muscles. For example, the calf muscle for a jumper in the NBA would run and run, training mostly his type 1 fibers if he's jogging, but without training for a fast twitch reaction, the type 2's won't be worked, so he would need to do calf raises, jumping exercises and the like. My point with the fiber overview is that if you go too far into the aerobic work, like dozens of pushups etc...you are more training your slow twitch fibers in the chest, which comprise of a small amount of your chest muscles in the case of the pecs. The type with the most growth potential by far is the type 2 fibers, so doing chest exercises with rep ranges in the 3-10 range and failing by the last one will be the best way to activate the type 2 fibers. Type 1 can grow yes, but will not serve much purpose for pure strength or fast movement. Again the sprinter Vs. marathoner analogy.....

I like the error in Batman Begins when Alfred asks Bruce Wayne what is the point of all his pushups if he can't lift a bloody log off his chest when the house burned down. A heavy log would be similar to a one rep max, or maxing out, so pushups would do nothing in this regard to train (well not nothing, but very little), he'd have to be doing something (most likely benching) in a 5 or so range to simulate such a task.

This can be dry material, but due to your studies Jeff I'm guessing you knew all this already, it was mainly an overview for the others here.

The best thing is to align your goals with your training. If you are into parkour or martial arts or sports, a good amount of higher rep and aerobic training and bodyweight work will be of good help. Someone into Strongman comp's and powerlifting and bodybuilding will have little use for it other than to use it occasionally to avoid turning into a tree trunk (keep the core flexible for injury aversion)....many athletes would benefit from both, like football (US football & EU football) basketball etc... where you need endurance and all, but you will need quick bursts of strength due to the intensity... One good purpose of the type 1's though is that if you can train them well with type 2's here and there on a regular basis, you can use the capillaries they enhance to help with nutrient delivery. Your body forms new capillaries etc...to adapt similar to increasing muscle fiber diameter etc....

Last edited by BWS1982; 06-21-2008 at 01:03 AM.
06-21-2008, 02:10 AM   #28
Jeff D.
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Join Date: Apr 2006
The thing with bodyweight exercises is that you don't just stop at regular pushups. When you can do 10 regular pushups make them harder. Raise your feet off the ground or widen your grip or narrow your grip. After that try handstand pushups, handstand pushups are one of the hardest exercises I have ever done. It is upper body and core strength. Doing one of these will be harder than most exercises that you can do at a gym untl you start getting into big numbers and I'm talking about twice your body weight for bench press.

The idea of doing a more "bodybuilder" type workout for a month or six weeks is because that is when you start to notice a change in muscle size. When you notice that change where you start to get more "cut" then you back off of the really strenuous workout. This is where you less one single-muscle, like biceps, but you do more multi-muscle workouts. You do these because you will get strength not only in the main muscle you want to work out but in the surrounding muscles(the support group). You want these support muscles because in everyday life you will not just be using your biceps like you would in a bicep curl. In lifting a box you will use your biceps, shoulders, back, and abs(I'm only going into the upper body here) each muscle groups having several supporting muscles to keep everything balanced and working right. That is why I say use bodyweight exercises, not exclusively but if you can combine bodyweight exercises with weight you will end up with stronger muscles.

When I think of bodybuilders I think of the guys that grow huge muscles that go on a show floor like models and get judge for how there muscles look. My health science teacher taught us that these men and women are not as strong as you would think. You can train a muscle to look big and not be strong just like you can train a muscle to be strong and not look big. There was a woman who was on the science channel who competed in the Olympics for weight lifting, if you saw this lady on the street you would have thought she was a dancer, yet she was lifting about 500 pounds. They also had a man who did the same thing, this guy was huge. But against the woman he didn't lift as much per pound of body weight.

You must train Type 1 and Type 2 muscle fibers together. You can't train one or the other unless that is your goal but for most of us we want to train everything. Both groups of muscles are very important in how we train and how we live.
06-21-2008, 03:40 AM   #29
BWS1982
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Well, no true bodybuilders just train biceps or do just chest flyes etc....(casual gym goers might though) I realize what you're talking about, and that's why there are rows, deadlifts, squats, bench presses, cleans, etc... because that's not what you do in real life (curl a chunk of metal).....only uninformed lifters would just go in a hit their bi's and abs because those are some key beach muscles.

In regards to your pushup portion though, I have to point out that if you start raising your legs and go towards a handstand position, you are no longer doing a pushup motion, you have slowly moved into a military press, which is shoulders, tris and some pec major/minor.....this is no longer the same as a pushup, it's a different exercise. Same thing with the widened grip of the pushup, if you widen it, you use less of the tri's and more of the chest. A narrow grip on pushups will focus on the triceps. I feel it's important to do the same motion but with more resistance, and if one is really set on doing bodyweight exercises, they can add some weight to a backpack and wear that while doing pushups. I've done this myself in the past, to add resistance. The key is if you change the exercise and not the resistance, you're making it harder, but you're no longer working the same motion and muscles.

Again, not speaking down on bodyweight exercises in general, but trying to state they have their place just as weights have their place, and where that place is depends on the results one wants. My goals would obviously be much different than your goals, or perhaps the OP's goals. I use it at minimum in order to keep limber, and injury free. The reason being I want to train my body to focus on fueling damaged type 2 fibers and not so much type 1's. But I also do aerobic workouts for that too. Not trying to say don't train one type of fiber or the other, but you activate the most fibers when lifting very heavy. The closer to a 1 rep max, the more fibers that are called into play.

And yeah, some bodybuilders are just fluff with their size, others are strength beasts and could out-powerlift many pro's (like Ronnie Coleman). Not all Bodybuilders fit the profile you mention either, many are non-competing who live the lifestyle for health purposes and want to accomplish a certain physique.
06-28-2008, 06:05 AM   #30
GregD
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Hey Guys,
Thanks for all of the good advice. I just wanted to give you an update. I've been taking the supplements I mentioned (NO-Explode, Nitrix, and Cellmass) for about a week now. I haven't had any problems at all. I actually seem to be less tired throughout the day, since taking them. I think it is too early to really see any effects from them, in terms of size. However, taking the NO-Explode right before I lift really has given me a lot more energy for my workouts. I am able to workout longer and feel less drained afterward.
I guess everyone with Crohn's tolerates these supplements differently, but they haven't caused me any difficulty or discomfort so far.

-Greg
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