Share Facebook
Crohn's Disease Forum » General IBD Discussion » Can diet and alternative therapy keep Crohn's in remission


 
03-10-2012, 11:05 PM   #1
AckMac
 
AckMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Can diet and alternative therapy keep Crohn's in remission

My gastroenterologist is of the opinion that diet plays absolutely no role in Crohn's Disease. He also thinks that alternative therapies are a bad idea. Now, he's a good western medical doctor and I respect him a great deal from that perspective, but I think that there might be more for me out there. In your opinion, can diet and/or alternative therapies keep Crohn's Disease is remission once you get there? Or should you rely strictly on western medicine or an amalgamation of the two?
03-11-2012, 10:51 AM   #2
David
Co-Founder
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Naples, Florida
Studies showcase that those in remission can certainly increase their chances for staying in remission with diet. But it's about finding the diet that works for you. And some alternative therapies can definitely help, others can be a hindrance. Again, it's about making educated decisions that are right for you. Some highlights from this study which, while not the best study, makes some strong statements:

There is enough evidence to indicate that IBD is a diet-related disease.
Pre-illness case-control studies, including those in Japan, have reported increased intake of sugar, fast foods, chocolate, and cola drinks in IBD, and a decrease in total fruit and vegetable fiber in CD
We regard IBD as a lifestyle-related disease that is mediated by mainly a westernized diet
Consequently, if a suitable diet is identified and patients stick to the diet, we believe that the majority of IBD patients could be free from relapse without medication.
03-12-2012, 10:55 PM   #3
AckMac
 
AckMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
That's really interesting, thank you for the information.
03-12-2012, 11:37 PM   #4
Momof2EW
Senior Member
 
Momof2EW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Alabama

My Support Groups:
I myself would be more on the side of yes, diet is a big part in CD and controls a lot of the disease. That's just Imo though.
__________________
Elise
Getting through this, one day at a time!
Diagnosed With Crohn's in September 2010
Medications:
Remicade
Lexapro 30mg daily
Klonopin 1mg 2xday
Trazodone 150mg nightly
Lomotil(only as needed)

Tried & Retired:
Humira,Buspar,Effexor XR,Ambien,Prednisone(devil)

"Sometimes I think my life would make a great TV movie. It even has the part where they say,
"Stand by. We are experiencing temporary difficulties."
03-13-2012, 12:23 AM   #5
mnsun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
First off, I would wager a guess that anyone who has had active Crohn's for more than 6 months KNOWS that foods do affect them one way or the other. However, sometimes symptoms do appear out of nowhere. It most likely depends on the severity of inflammation and/or number of surgeries you've had when considering the effectiveness of diet alone.

If your in remission right now, it might take awhile for bad diet to tip the scales and cause symptoms. I think doctors want immediate results from good/bad foods, whereas I think it takes weeks to months to years to reach critical mass, so to speak, and cause a cascade of symptoms ("flares")--all dependent on the progression of individual case.

It all depends on the individual case which varies by age/emotional state/physical fitness & activity/environmental exposures(water/work/house)/allergies/supplements etc. but diet is definitely THE most important aspect, in my opinion. Secondly, I would rate supplements like copious amounts of enteric coated fish oils (at least 3 grams of total EPA/DHA--more EPA than DHA--daily and not simply 3 grams of "omega 3s". The fish oil should have an actual breakdown of EPA/DHA which together totals 3 grams daily.) and QUALITY probiotics daily.

See my post at: Your Story>Success Stories>MY Supps for MY Dis-Ease
__________________
"Give away the stone. Let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and fated anchor. Give away the stone. Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into to gold. Let go." MJK
03-13-2012, 01:52 AM   #6
Jennifer
Adminstrator
 
Jennifer's Avatar
I guess I'm the oddball out and feel that diet only plays a part when you're in an active flare. There's been no evidence that shows it actually causes flares or causes the disease itself. Use whatever treatment you like but I will stick with medication as its kept me in remission for many years already with many more to come (I hope of course).
__________________
Diagnosis: Crohn's in 1991 at age 9
Surgeries: 1 Small Bowel Resection in 1999; Central IV in 1991-92
Meds for CD: 6MP 50mg
Things I take: Tenormin 25mg (PVCs and Tachycardia), Junel, Tylenol 3, Omeprazole 20mg 2/day, Klonopin 1mg 2/day (anxiety), Restoril 15mg (insomnia), Claritin 20mg
Currently in: REMISSION Thought it was a flare but it's just scar tissue from my resection. Dealing with a stricture. Remission from my resection, 17 years and counting.
03-13-2012, 10:21 PM   #7
David
Co-Founder
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Naples, Florida
Specific foods MAY not DIRECTLY cause flares or any form of IBD. However, diet always matters. Taking food A may not cause a flare, but a healthy diet is instrumental for anyone that doesn't have a chronic disease much less someone who does. I can't see how it can be argued that an unhealthy diet doesn't in some way affect chronic disease, especially those of the digestive track. A specific diet may not cause flares but I will bet any amount of money that specific diets certainly reduce (or increase) the likelihood of relapse. There are plenty of studies that show people with Crohn's Disease are more likely to consume refined sugars, fast foods, high levels of unhealthy fats, low levels of quality fruits and vegetables, and the list goes on.

Example studies:

Heckers H, Melcher FW, Kamenisch W, Henneking K. Chemically prepared fats and Crohn disease. A pilot study of occurrence of trans-fatty acids in the subcutaneous tissue of patients in comparison with healthy controls as a parameter of long-term fat intake. Z Gastroenterol 1988; 26: 25964.

Chuah SY, Jayanthi V, Lee CN, McDonald B, Probert CS, Mayberry JF. Dietary fats and inflammatory bowel disease in Asians. Ital J Gastroenterol 1992; 24: 3868.

Persson PG, Ahlbom A, Hellers G. Diet and inflammatory bowel disease: a case-control study. Epidemiology 1992; 3: 4752.

Geerling BJ, v Houwelingen AC, Badart-Smook A, Stockbrugger RW, Brummer RJ. Fat intake and fatty acid profile in plasma phospholipids and adipose tissue in patients with Crohn's disease, compared with controls. Am J Gastroenterol 1999; 94: 4107.

Martini GA, Brandes JW. Increased consumption of refined carbohydrates in patients with Crohn's disease. Klin Wochenschr 1976; 54: 36771.

Kasper H, Sommer H. Dietary fiber and nutrient intake in Crohn's disease. Am J Clin Nutr 1979; 32: 1898901.

Silkoff K, Hallak A, Yegena L, et al. Consumption of refined carbohydrate by patients with Crohn's disease in Tel-Aviv-Yafo. Postgrad Med J 1980; 56: 8426.

Mayberry JF, Rhodes J, Newcombe RG. Increased sugar consumption in Crohn's disease. Digestion 1980; 20: 3236.

Mayberry JF, Rhodes J, Allan R, et al. Diet in Crohn's disease two studies of current and previous habits in newly diagnosed patients. Dig Dis Sci 1981; 26: 4448.

Jarnerot G, Jarnmark I, Nilsson K. Consumption of refined sugar by patients with Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, or irritable bowel syndrome. Scand J Gastroenterol 1983; 18: 9991002.

Katschinski B, Logan RF, Edmond M, Langman MJ. Smoking and sugar intake are separate but interactive risk factors in Crohn's disease. Gut 1988; 29: 12026.

Mayberry JF, Rhodes J, Allan R, et al. Breakfast and dietary aspects of Crohn's disease. Br Med J 1978; 2: 1401.

Kasper H, Sommer H. Taste thresholds in patients with Crohn's disease. J Hum Nutr 1980; 34: 4556.

Brauer PM, Gee MI, Grace M, Thomson AB. Diet of women with Crohn's and other gastrointestinal diseases. J Am Diet Assoc 1983; 82: 65964.

Penny WJ, Mayberry JF, Aggett PJ, Gilbert JO, Newcombe RG, Rhodes J. Relationship between trace elements, sugar consumption, and taste in Crohn's disease. Gut 1983; 24: 28992.

Porro GN, Panze E. Smoking, sugar and inflammatory bowel disease. Br Med J 1985; 291: 9712.

Probert CS, Bhakta P, Bhamra B, Jayanthi V, Mayberry JF. Diet of South Asians with inflammatory bowel disease. Arq Gastroenterol 1996; 33: 1325.
03-13-2012, 10:48 PM   #8
handle
Senior Member
 
handle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Most studies suggest a secondary, rather than causal relationship.

Crohns people often instinctively resort to low fiber diets, and therefore higher refined foods, in order to manage their symptoms - including pain. This a secondary response.
It is not a causal relationship. Most dietary studies assess the food intake of already diagnosed patients.

I think Crohns people generally eat the healthiest diets that they are physically able to manage.
03-13-2012, 10:49 PM   #9
Jennifer
Adminstrator
 
Jennifer's Avatar
Well sure a good diet even helps your complexion but that's not what I was getting at at all. I never said eating fast food everyday was good for you, just that if you do happen to once in a while, you're not going to throw yourself into a flare. It's one thing to say that eating well helps you feel good/live longer etc. yet its an entirely different story to say that if you don't eat a certain way, then you will have more flares or be diagnosed with an IBD.

I eat what I'm able to afford and have only taken care of my disease (mainly) with medication (I'm only treating it with 6MP now). Most people don't go past 10 years of remission after a resection and yet I'm past that with a crappy diet. In my case obviously something is playing a larger role than food. If food does play a role during remission, then its a very minor one in my opinion/experience.
03-13-2012, 11:00 PM   #10
David
Co-Founder
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Naples, Florida
I think Crohns people generally eat the healthiest diets that they are physically able to manage.
Some absolutely do and god do I respect their strength. My guess is that most of us with IBD do not. Heck, type II diabetes can be at the very least controlled and in many cases cured with proper diet and exercise. Yet it's an epidemic and very few actually follow the proper treatment regimen. This despite every doctor they meet telling them this.

With IBD some doctors say diet matters, others say it doesn't in the least. Those of us who theorize it does matter jump from diet to diet grasping at straws hoping something works. It's a hell of a lot easier to justify not sticking to that healthy diet when you're not sure if it's going to work anyway and you're having a massive craving. Most of us will cut out the foods we KNOW hurt. Popcorn? Out. Lettuce? Out. But sugar? Does it negatively affect us? It's hard to tell for sure. Lot's of theories... oh god I'm so depressed it feels like my side is on fire I deserve some M&M's (I had that battle tonight).
03-13-2012, 11:04 PM   #11
David
Co-Founder
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Naples, Florida
I eat what I'm able to afford and have only taken care of my disease (mainly) with medication (I'm only treating it with 6MP now). Most people don't go past 10 years of remission after a resection and yet I'm past that with a crappy diet. In my case obviously something is playing a larger role than food. If food does play a role during remission, then its a very minor one in my opinion/experience.
But how do you know it's a small role when you're on a powerful drug like 6MP? That's possibly like saying, "Sugar doesn't affect diabetes because look at all this sugar I'm eating and I'm ok"

*injects insulin*

For the record, please note that my tone is in no way confrontational here. It's friendly and I'm enjoying this discussion a lot Thank you both for taking part!
03-13-2012, 11:46 PM   #12
handle
Senior Member
 
handle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
You know, the funny thing is that studies do not list sugar as the direct cause of Diabetes type 2! One example (39,000 people surveyed):

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/con...6/4/1008.short

The more important issues (sometimes concomitant) seem to be obesity, lack of exercise, genetics, and even low-birth weight. The obesity can arise from a diet of high fat and sugar intake.

It is sometimes a seductive line of thinking that issues manifesting in the intestinal tract must be caused by the food that is ingested. It is analogous to having ear problems and thinking that soundwaves have caused them. Or that eye problems come from looking at things. It is not always the case that there is a direct link in that way.
However, since we fuel our bodies with food, diet will always be vitally important, but not necessarily in such a direct causal manner....!
03-13-2012, 11:50 PM   #13
David
Co-Founder
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Naples, Florida
Hahah. Touche' !

03-14-2012, 12:10 AM   #14
Jennifer
Adminstrator
 
Jennifer's Avatar
But how do you know it's a small role when you're on a powerful drug like 6MP? That's possibly like saying, "Sugar doesn't affect diabetes because look at all this sugar I'm eating and I'm ok"

*injects insulin*

For the record, please note that my tone is in no way confrontational here. It's friendly and I'm enjoying this discussion a lot Thank you both for taking part!
You're making this too easy David.

Such a powerful drug you say? Well, that powerful drug leads to a long remission yet those who stick with diet only go in and out of remission far more often. The users on this very forum have proven that.

I've gone without meds and almost died. Lack of meds forced the resection. The resection itself made me start over and I hadn't been on meds the entire time either (I aint no saint). I went a few years without meds after my resection and I didn't start back on them because I got sick, I started back up cause I was getting smart about my illness and didn't want to let myself go out of remission like I had before (learned from my mistake you might say). I also used to take Asacol with 6MP and a higher dose of 6MP. Since my resection they took me off of Asacol and lowered my dose of 6MP. Its an autoimmune disease so it makes sense to control the immune system to keep it at bay. Steroids for Crohn's are more like insulin for diabetes in the case you mentioned. 6MP for Crohn's is more like Metformin for diabetes. When you have a disease, unfortunately you can't just change your diet and expect it to stop cause there are other factors that come into play (stress, genetics my self portrait etc.). We all know its not food alone.

Does food help people with Crohn's who are in remission? Not anymore than it does for someone without an IBD. It definitely plays a factor during flares, no doubt about that. Remission? Not so much.

For the record, please note that my tone is very confrontational here. It's not friendly and I'm not enjoying this discussion at all. I'm just messing. :P

lol, well said handle!
03-14-2012, 01:37 AM   #15
David
Co-Founder
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Naples, Florida
I'm not arguing that medication doesn't help maintain remission, it absolutely can. My opinion is that most people would do best on a balance of healthy, specialized diet and medication. What I'm stating is that diet absolutely plays a role in many cases.

There are various small studies like this and this and this where specific diets for people decreased relapse rates.
03-14-2012, 02:07 AM   #16
handle
Senior Member
 
handle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
I think you are both right. If the Crohns is completely in remission, with no microscopic activity at all, then diet will normally not be a part of triggering any relapse.
However, there is often some microscopic activity still present even in a so-called remissive state. As that activity goes on, over time the gut can again become more sensitive to any aggravation, even to the process of eating itself!
Some people definitely have foods that aggravate them and which should be avoided in that case. That doesn't necessarily mean that food/eating causes the illness, only that it can aggravate the illness process once it has been activated.
It has to do with keeping the immune system calm. Laughter and feeling contentment do that well, as can a good cry! And eating M & M's can too. : )
03-14-2012, 02:19 AM   #17
Jennifer
Adminstrator
 
Jennifer's Avatar
What specialized diet? Every person and flare is different so if one food bothers you now, that doesn't mean it will bother you later and most diets obviously aren't for everyone. Salads and raw fruits and veggies are best yet totally destroy people who don't even have IBD (not all the time but it happens). So what are we "supposed" to eat and are we really all gonna flare if we break and eat some M&Ms? I think not sir.

I'll have to check out your links later. I have to go to bed. You're up late btw.
03-14-2012, 02:52 AM   #18
kiny
Senior Member
 
kiny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
There's atm three known bacterial ecosystems in the gut. http://www.nature.com/news/2011/1104....2011.249.html This is a very recent discovery, they're like blood groups. It doesn't matter where the person is from, Europe, US, Japan, you can find those 3 types around the world in every country. You are not born with either one, you just evolve into one of the three, depending on what you eat. They think you can go from one type into the other, by changing your diet, but if it's possible it would be a very slow process. What they want to know is if Crohn is more frequent in one of the three.

They also see a huge increase in Crohn in nations like Japan. You can't explain it by lack of understand of diseases because doctors are just as knowledgeable in Japan as in the US / Europe (like they could for Africa or China). You can't explain it through heredity, because the increase in Crohn's disease is too high (you can predict the numbers of people who will get a hereditary disease since you know how many babies are born, Crohn in Japan goes way above that number). What's left is diet, Japan has started to consume more and more milk and bread (also fast food, thanks McDonalds).
03-14-2012, 05:47 AM   #19
handle
Senior Member
 
handle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
There has been some increase in Japan, as well as elsewhere in the world. The prevalence (number of people with the illness) in Japan has risen to about 20 per 100,000 (from about 6 per 100,000 twenty years ago.)

It has been speculated that less breast fed babies has caused the problem (using formula instead.) It has been suggested that people not squatting on toilets is the issue. It has been suggested that eating less rice (with it's resistant starch feeding probiotic bacteria) may be the issue. It has been suggested that increased pollution, with more urban dwellers, is the issue. And even increased mixing of genes has been suggested!

No-one knows as yet what the cause or causes is, or why the incidence is rising elsewhere. It may be diet related even if not diet caused. Or it may be some other combination of issues.

Last edited by handle; 03-14-2012 at 06:08 AM.
03-14-2012, 06:20 AM   #20
kiny
Senior Member
 
kiny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
There has been some increase in Japan, as well as elsewhere in the world. The prevalence (number of people with the illness) in Japan has risen to about 20 per 100,000 (from about 6 per 100,000 twenty years ago.)

It has been speculated that less breast fed babies has caused the problem (using formula instead.) It has been suggested that people not squatting on toilets is the issue. It has been suggested that eating less rice (with it's resistant starch feeding probiotic bacteria) may be the issue. It has been suggested that increased pollution, with more urban dwellers, is the issue. And even increased mixing of genes has been suggested!

No-one knows as yet what the cause or causes is, or why the incidence is rising elsewhere. It may be diet related even if not diet caused. Or it may be some other combination of issues.
There are many studies that show there is a link between the increase in Japan of consumption of milk and animal fat and the increase of Crohn.

The other reasons you named are farfetched to me, people not squatting on toilets or increased pollution can't possibly explain Crohn. The only one that seems possible is the change of rice into other types of food. The breastmilk argument I have heard, but I don't know why that would lead to crohn.

The milk and animal fat theory is one that has proof and it can also be explained because of MAP, so it's the one I put most faith in atm.

I don't mind if people say there could be hundreds of reasons, but I do mind when many studies all point in the same direction and people choose to ignore them, because we can keep going forever like this, there is overwhelming evidence that MAP is present in Crohn patients and it's present in Japanese dairy and animals.

http://crohn.ie/archive/research/misc/japprot.htm

"We examined the correlation between the incidence of Crohn disease and dietary change in a relatively homogeneous Japanese population. The incidence and daily intake of each dietary component were compared annually from 1966 to 1985. The univariate analysis showed that the increased incidence of Crohn disease was strongly (P < 0.001) correlated with increased dietary intake of total fat (r = 0.919). animal fat (r = 0.880), n-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (r = 0.883), animal protein (r = 0.908), milk protein (r = 0.924), and the ratio of n-6 to n-3 fatty acid intake (r = 0.792). It was less correlated with intake of total protein (r = 0.482, P < 0.05), was not correlated with intake of fish protein (r = 0.055, P > 0.1), and was inversely correlated with intake of vegetable protein (r = -0.941, P < 0.001). "

In Europe they can also see a correlation between lactose intolerance and Crohn, they have mapped out where the highest number of Crohn patients are, it's UK / Netherlands / Belgium / Sweden, places where people consume a lot of animal fat and milk, also places where many people are lactose intolerant. There is a correlation.

The strongest case for believing it involves the diet for me were some studies that were done on African tribes. They followed people from tribes in Africa who went to Europe or the US, where there was never a single incidence of Crohn in the tribe. They went to the US / Europe and after a few years, some of those tribe people got Crohn while still none of the people from the original tribe had Crohn. How can you explain that without a change in diet, it's impossible.



Proving diet affects Crohn for everyone can be simpler than that, you need protein for mucasal tissue to heal, don't eat protein, you won't heal -> diet affects Crohn. Without short chain fat mucosa won't heal -> diet affects Crohn. etc

Last edited by kiny; 03-14-2012 at 07:01 AM.
03-14-2012, 07:17 AM   #21
Susan2
Senior Member
 
Susan2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia

My Support Groups:
An interesting discussion. If I can put my pennyworth in, I have had Crohns for over 50 years and have been diagnosed for almost 40, but I still am not sure of the correlation between what I eat and the state of my disease. I tend to feel that the disease itself is not substantially affected by what I eat but the symptoms certainly are. But, having said that, the symptoms also seem to be affected by a number of other factors such as how hard I have pushed myself physically (but not, as far as I can tell, by my emotional state).

I had a proctocolectomy almost exactly 13 years ago (I was in hospital for Easter 2000) and, after a few hiccups, have been in a reasonable state of remission since. I have been on no Crohn's related drugs in those years (with the exception of the occasional use of Imodium), but have been hospitalised a couple of times for dehydration following sustained vomitting and diarrhea.

I came to believe in the Blood Type diet, although I am not fanatical in my adherence to it, because it seems to keep my symptoms under the best control. What I eat can certainly affect me on a short-term basis, but whether it has been influential in my prolonged remission, I am unable to determine except that, in keeping my body in the best state that I possibly can, I must surely be helping it fight the Crohn's that continues to lurk there.
03-14-2012, 07:41 AM   #22
Susan2
Senior Member
 
Susan2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia

My Support Groups:
Could I just add that, contrary to the experience of many Crohn's sufferers, I have always found dairy to be my friend. Even my gastroenterologist admitted that, during my worst times with Crohn's, it was dairy that kept me alive. And today - after some 13 years of remission - dairy continues to be a substantial part of my diet.
03-14-2012, 08:28 AM   #23
handle
Senior Member
 
handle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
There are certainly several studies that point to a variety of things being the cause of Japan's rise in the prevalence of Crohns - as many as the theories on Crohns itself. Some find the variety confusing and even infuriating. Sure.

Here is but one theory:
http://www.internalmedicinenews.com/...3b8f207bf.html

Being fixated on a cause can be problematic. Once people make up their mind about a cause of Crohns (such as MAP, or complex carbs, or inflammatory foods, or genes etc) they can then get upset when others don't see what they see, and all the seemingly conclusive studies they have read! They may be right...
Perhaps some of us prefer to keep an open mind on the subject for a little while longer, even if we have our own strong suspicions?

(Yes, even increasing pollution levels have been blamed. It is alleged that human genes can be altered, increasing susceptibility to Crohns in some.)

Getting back to the OP's query, it is important for people to go with whatever works for them whether it is meds, diet, alternative therapy or a combination. People respond differently, and often individually, to each therapy they try.
It is great that this forum reveals the many options and ideas available!
The research may still have a way to go yet...even if it is narrowing in on the solution.
03-14-2012, 09:32 AM   #24
David
Co-Founder
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Naples, Florida
It has to do with keeping the immune system calm. Laughter and feeling contentment do that well, as can a good cry! And eating M & M's can too. : )
I'm not saying that food causes the illness. But I think it can aggravate it even out of remission. For example, they've found that polysorbate 80 (a common additive in processed foods) increases intestinal permeability. All of a sudden your intestinal walls are more permeable and that might allow bacteria to get below the epithelium and trigger a cascading inflammatory response. Or maybe people take multivitamins or cod liver oil high in retinol and bypass the body's control system which impairs vitamin D's rapid intestinal calcium response and impairs other functions of vitamin D and bam, you begin a negative feedback loop that takes three weeks to materialize. Or maybe it's about 32 variables like this and when at least 15 of those stars are aligned, you're out of remission. Maybe three of those variables are genetic, maybe ten are environmental, maybe three are psychological, and maybe five are dietary. Who knows what all the variables are but there are too many food related variables that could result in your calm immune system all of a sudden freaking out.
03-14-2012, 09:40 AM   #25
David
Co-Founder
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Naples, Florida
What specialized diet? Every person and flare is different so if one food bothers you now, that doesn't mean it will bother you later and most diets obviously aren't for everyone.
I agree 100% which is why I started the great diet brain dump. I think what diet works for a person depends on an enormous amount of static and evolving variables. I'd like to figure out as many of those variables as possible and what we know about them.
03-14-2012, 09:48 AM   #26
David
Co-Founder
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Naples, Florida
The other reasons you named are farfetched to me, people not squatting on toilets or increased pollution can't possibly explain Crohn. The only one that seems possible is the change of rice into other types of food. The breastmilk argument I have heard, but I don't know why that would lead to crohn.
Ah, but we have to open our minds to all these potential variables. For example, take a look at this. Do I think not squatting CAUSES Crohn's Disease? Of course not, but it could be a variable that, in conjunction with many others can cause issue. Who knows. And I can absolutely see pollution being a potential variable. If it can lead to increased cancer, asthma, and other ailments, I can see it having a deleterious affect on the digestive system as well. And formula is a terrible concoction of chemicals and leads to all sorts of digestive problems in many babies.
03-14-2012, 10:04 AM   #27
kiny
Senior Member
 
kiny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Ah, but we have to open our minds to all these potential variables. For example, take a look at this. Do I think not squatting CAUSES Crohn's Disease? Of course not, but it could be a variable that, in conjunction with many others can cause issue. Who knows. And I can absolutely see pollution being a potential variable. If it can lead to increased cancer, asthma, and other ailments, I can see it having a deleterious affect on the digestive system as well. And formula is a terrible concoction of chemicals and leads to all sorts of digestive problems in many babies.
I was thinking about posture and the impact of crohn is when I started going over the differences between crohn and johne's disease. Animals have almost the exact same symptoms as us, except for a few things. One of them is that they almost never get strictures, whereas some crohn patients do get strictures. It's blamed on fibrosis, specifically collagen overproduction, scar tissue healing, etc. But why not animals, why don't animals get it. I wonder if it's because they are standing up. I need to ask a veterinarian why animals don't get strictures with johne's disease.

(other differences, they get no fistula, all the rest is almost the same, animals get weight loss, they assume they get abdominal pain, they get granulomas, they can get ulcers, they find blood in their stool although it's rare, they get it at the same "relative" age as us, etc)
03-14-2012, 10:11 AM   #28
handle
Senior Member
 
handle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Yes David - it's all possible. That's why the current focus is on calming the immune system response, since that is a certain solution to an uncertain problem.

For now we have no choice but to work with what we have; antibiotics, immune suppressants, dietary trial and error, alternative therapy, surgery, supplements, painkillers, biologics and a sense of humor

I think the complexity will entirely resolve to a simple universal solution, eventually. That's the way things go both historically and philosophically - big problems can end with small solutions.
While we struggle, the research presses towards a conclusion. And we are part of that research.

(The theory behind the squatting issue is that incomplete defecation leads to increased bacterial growth and hence possibly Crohns! It isn't as mad as it first seems.)
03-14-2012, 02:56 PM   #29
Jennifer
Adminstrator
 
Jennifer's Avatar
Being fixated on a cause can be problematic. Once people make up their mind about a cause of Crohns (such as MAP, or complex carbs, or inflammatory foods, or genes etc) they can then get upset when others don't see what they see, and all the seemingly conclusive studies they have read! They may be right...
Perhaps some of us prefer to keep an open mind on the subject for a little while longer, even if we have our own strong suspicions?
For sure handle! I always keep an open mind where science is concerned cause we're learning new things all the time. Its very important cause you don't want to be too shocked when you're proven wrong or be rude about being right all along. In the end facts are facts and there's no reason to get upset at them or at other people.

For IBD there are so many different variables where even if we did find that food plays a roll, people would still be diagnosed with IBD because its affected by stress, environment and even our genes. Food may or may not be on the totem pole but my guess is that if it is, its on the vary bottom.

Also, Crohn's disease has been around for a very long time and it was only given a name/diagnosis very recently. So we're missing out on a HUGE chunk of history for this illness and the number of people who actually had it in the past (where they were located and what they ate etc.) who are now dead (possibly from the illness). Its easy to jump on the fast food bandwagon yet when you keep the actual history of Crohn's in mind, fast food wasn't even around back then. Grain on the other hand was. If anything, I bet it would have to do with the agricultural industry and the increase of grain in everything ("you're not eating candy for breakfast, here, have some toast and cereal instead"). Or maybe pesticides even.

For me I ate a lot of fruits and vegetables as a kid (lots of fresh and organic ones too from my grandparent's garden). We were also poor and got food from bag lines but nothing we ate was spoiled. We didn't eat a lot of precessed foods. Was still diagnosed when I was 9 years old. Poor kids. I doubt it was their diet.
03-14-2012, 07:10 PM   #30
Irene3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia

My Support Groups:
My GI also says diet dosnt really matter. It's very interesting to me however, how many studies there are out there, indicating that bad diet can bring crohns on. Like diabetes. But I think genetics must play a part, because apparently my aunt had crohns also (don't know details as we are not in contact), and with diet alone, went into remission. This was part of the reason I so strongly wanted to go on the candida diet.
I think wether we look at low residue, or the opposite- high fiber etc, it's crohnic, so looking at diet before hand is more key. Me personally, I was drinking barely any water, and drank heaps of Coffey with heaps of sugar before my symptoms started. Now many will say, that it may not be a contributing factor, but I believe, if it was genetic only, then my aunt couldn't go into remission with diet. So maybe if we eat well, it does prevent crohns... They say that about diabetes so who knows. But I started taking vitamins recently, and even though I tried a candida diet and was ill, I'd still like to try the scd diet, and reduce refined sugar. Personally I don't have a prob with taking medication if need be for crohns, except more recently prednisone I'd like to in future avoid, but what's to say a good diet wouldn't make a difference, so in time stronger medicines would only be needed in bad flares?
It's worth a try I think, though I know many with crohns here state that diet can only 'help' not cure. Each person I think, can at least try diff diets.
Having said that, I'm just about to go to my GI appoint to ask about medications I Havnt tried for crohns. But regardless, I'd still like to try eating well.
Reply

Crohn's Disease Forum » General IBD Discussion » Can diet and alternative therapy keep Crohn's in remission
Thread Tools


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:31 AM.
Copyright 2006-2017 Crohnsforum.com