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04-17-2012, 05:39 PM   #1
Kev
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Cows Milk Vs Mothers' Milk

Here's a thought (and yes, it happens so rarely that Ripley's called to verify it).
Has anyone taken/conducted a poll amongst the Parents of Children with IBD to see how many were bottle babies vs nursed? And, if nursed, to what age. The reason I toss this out there is that I'm alarmed by the (at least to my minds eye) increase in the number of very young children that are getting this disease. One prevalent theory (17 studies, but nothing definitive) targets MAP from beef/dairy cattle with Johnes disease as the potential culprit behind IBD. I haven't seen too many 2 year olds chowing down on a rare, juicy T-bone, so I'm guessing that red meat isn't how they 'possibly' contracted MAP, but what about cows milk? I'm wondering if there is a possible correlation in numbers that might pop out if we conducted a survey along those lines. Anyone intrigued? Or am I totally off the wall? Mind you, the one thing that goes without saying, so I'll say it here... is that, if a correlation did appear, I hope parents wouldn't go blaming themselves. The best/brightest scientific minds have yet to pinpoint what causes Crohns. And, if interesting numbers do pop up, that doesn't mean we're onto a full blown eureka moment. I raised kids, I will always remain a parent, I did the best I could with the info I had at the time.. like we all do. I couldn't help it if at various points in the process the 'experts' did a complete 180 on what is the best... Well, the point needs no further discussion. Anyone want a poll?
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KEV

Dx'd July, 2006
Meds: Flagyl, Cipro, Pred, AZA.. to no effect
Low Dose Naltrexone Nov 2007 - May 2014
Remicade June 17th, 2014
04-17-2012, 06:04 PM   #2
Mom2oneboy
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Hi Kev,

Interesting topic! I breastfed my son for 7 months. After that he went to formula until the ped told us we could switch to cow's milk. I can't remember what age that was. He has always loved his milk!
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11yr old son
dx Crohn's 2/2012
Currently on VSL #3
Started EN 4/2
Methotrexate 6/6/12
Remicade 09/30/12

Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...It's about learning to dance in the rain.
04-17-2012, 06:19 PM   #3
dannysmom
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Danny (undiagnosed) was breast-fed for 3 months, then formula (which does have milk in it), and switched to whole milk at 1 year old. Danny loved milk .. and drank about 6 glasses a day. When he was first ill and we did allergy testing, it showed he was extremely allergic to cow's milk and cassein. We have since avoided all dairy. I am always curious about MAP since reading about it (after having some response to the skin PPD test, but negative to the regular TB quantiferen gold test, which would mean that my son was exposed to some mycobacterium) Doctors do not seem to test for it though.
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04-17-2012, 06:44 PM   #4
DustyKat
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Both of my children were breastfed. There is only 17 months between them and Sarah started refusing the breast at 1 year old. I often wonder if it was my hormones that turned her off the breast milk. Matt was breast fed to 2 years old.

Once off the breast I did not put either of my children onto cows milk as a feed so they only received it via cereal etc.

Neither were cow's milk drinkers as they grew either, they just didn't look for it or particularly like it. I personally don't like it either and did not tolerate it as a child.

Dusty.
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04-17-2012, 06:55 PM   #5
DustyKat
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I knew there was an old poll somewhere...

http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthrea...ght=breast+fed

...my how times change, read my response.

Dusty. xxx
04-17-2012, 07:12 PM   #6
Twiggy930
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My son would not breastfeed. I tried everything to get him to do it and had no success. I pumped for 6 weeks but could not produce enough to feed him solely on breast milk so he received a combination of both formula and breast milk for 6 weeks and then just formula from there on out. Interesting that my daughter, who is 15 months younger, breast fed like a champion with no problems at all.

Both my kids started on cow's milk at 1 year of age and both have been, and still are, big milk drinkers.

Until I have hard proof that not breastfeeding my son caused an increased risk of him getting IBD I refuse to entertain such thoughts. Too much guilt...
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Son (age 13) diagnosed with Crohn's Feb. 2012.
Currently on Imuran and Sulfasalazine.

Also taking: TuZen probiotic and following a low FODMAP diet (not very strictly).

Past Treatments: Prednisone, Flagyl, Cipro, Pentasa, exclusive EN via NG tube (6 weeks), Prevacid, Iberogast (20 drops twice a day) and high doses of vitamin B2.
04-17-2012, 07:26 PM   #7
Tesscorm
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Same here, Twiggy - Stephen would not breastfeed (but daughter did), he also had a combination of breastmilk and formula for 4-5 weeks and then just formula. Started on cow's milk (whole) at 1 year.

Stephen always drank lots of milk and still does.
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Diagnosed May 2011

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May-July 2011 - 6 wks Exclusive EN via NG tube - 2000 ml/night, 1 wk IV Flagyl
July 2011-July 2013 - Supplemental EN via NG, 1000 ml/night, 5 nites/wk, Nexium, 40 mg
Feb. 2013-present - Remicade, 5 mg/kg every 6 wks
Supplements: 1-2 Boost shakes, D3 - 2000 IUs, Krill Oil
04-17-2012, 07:42 PM   #8
Crohn's Mom
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All three of my children were strictly formula fed until around 1 year. None of them tolerated cow's milk very well after tho; and my middle son had a milk protein and soy allergy so he was quite tricky.

Dusty... I wish that post from the previous poll were still true !
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DX: Crohn's 2/2010
and Austin (18)
DX: Crohn's 7/2013
04-17-2012, 08:20 PM   #9
imaboveitall
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no 1 child: breastfed only three weeks, then milk based formula to six mos, then straight cow's milk which he refused after age 2.
Age 29 healthy as any ox.

no 2: breastfed exclusively five mos, milk based formula to seven mos then to cow's milk. Big dairy consumer rest of her childhood. Now age 28 and vegan and healthy as her older brother.

no 3 VIOLET: breastfed exclusively seven mos, then to cow's milk/milk based formula combo. Only kid with any sort of health issues.

no 4: breastfed exclusively three mos, added milk based formula at three mos, weaned from breast eight mos and put on straight cow's milk. This kid is so healthy you couldn't kill her with an axe. Goes years without even a cold, even when all around her are sick as dogs.
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Pediasure PEPTIDE 1000 cals nightly via NG tube
Imuran 150mg
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Failed and/or past tx:
Remicade
methotrexate
prednisone
Flagyl
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atenolol
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cyproheptadine
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04-17-2012, 08:37 PM   #10
my little penguin
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Breastfed #1 until 15 months. He had milk soy protein intolerance . Drank cows milk from then on but doesn't like it. He will see the GI in May suspected crohn's.

# 2 has crohn's and was Breastfed to 20 months. He nor I had any dairy in our diets at all during that time. His gut started acting up at two weeks old.
He drank a ton of cow's milk from age two on.
04-17-2012, 08:39 PM   #11
LittlebitsMommy
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I know alot of people are going to read and reread what I am fixing to say . I dont do alot to what people think is normal, but you what I am okay with that

Kota strickly breastfed until he was a year old. Then continued to nurse 5-7 times a day until he was 3. From age 3-5 he nursed when he got up in the morning and to sleep at night. And of course if he got hurt or wasnt feeling good, he would nurse more. Then from age 6-7 he nursed at night before bed. I am not even sure if he really got anything at that point. It was more for comfort and security. Because he would only be at the breast for a couple of minutes and he would be asleep . Ko has never liked cows milk and has maybe had 1 gallon his whole life.

Kota was the first of my 3 children to nurse.

Becca is 22 now. She had formula until she was a year old. After a year she drank only a little bit of cows milk. Drinks more now then she did when she was younger. She is healthy

Skyler is 17. He had formula until he was a year old and then went to cows milk. He loved cows milk. I dont think I have ever seen a child that liked cows milk as much as he did. Now he doesnt drink milk unless he is puttin it on cereal. He is healthy but did have alot of stomach issues when he was 4 months -5 years old.
04-17-2012, 08:42 PM   #12
DustyKat
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Until I have hard proof that not breastfeeding my son caused an increased risk of him getting IBD I refuse to entertain such thoughts. Too much guilt...
Awwww Twiggy......I personally think it is something you will never need to feel guilty about.

I will go out on a limb here and say one of my pet peeves in life is the breast feeding nazi's. I abhor the way they make mother's feel when they don't have the ability to breast feed their baby but the fact of the matter is not every baby will take to the breast for whatever reason. I also believe that if a mother chooses not to breast feed then she is answerable to no one for it.

Off the soap box now.

Dusty. xxx
04-17-2012, 08:49 PM   #13
my little penguin
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Hugs Twiggy
No matter how you look at it
It is still food which even if you did nurse would still have the proteins from the food you ate in it. Trust me those pesky proteins did a number on my LO gut.
Which is why I go by the theory you do the best you can and don't worry about the latest study since sure enough there will be another one disproving it soon enough and blaming something.
04-17-2012, 08:51 PM   #14
izzi'smom
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Littlebitw as long as it works for you. And your family- dd nursed exclusively until 9 months, when I began to supplement with a bit of formula as my supply dwindled. She weaned at 13 months. Ds sshe loves milk! Ds self weaned at 9 mos and doesn't care much for milk. He has never hadformula and doesn't have ibd.
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Angie, mom to Izzi,10 Crohn's Colitis 1/11 prednisone, entyvio since 2015 Tried: Tacrolimus, Bactrim, simponi, Levsin, Prevacid, Prednisilone, Humira, Remicade, EN via ng, vancomycin, Pentasa, carafate, Sulfasalazine, Cortifoam enemas, dietary changes, fish oil, VSL#3.
04-17-2012, 08:54 PM   #15
LittlebitsMommy
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I think it is sometimes totally out of the mother and babies hands if they get to breastfeed. It doesnt work for everyone. I could never look down on anyone for not nursing. Or think well if you would have nursed your baby they wouldnt be sick. No one should ever feel guilty that they couldnt nurse. But I know its easy to have lots of what ifs running through your head. One could be Would my baby be sick if I would have nursed. Yes your baby could and would probably still be sick if you would have nursed. Heck I did nurse Ko out of the norm and he is still a sick little boy. My nursing relationship was the best and I feel very blessed to have had it BUT NO it didnt keep my Ko from being sick.

Sorry for the ramble
04-17-2012, 09:10 PM   #16
DustyKat
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Yikes LbM!

I hope my post isn't misconstrued as a dig at you! Because it certainly isn't! Just one of those unfortunate things where you posted when I was writing mine.

Dusty. xxx
04-17-2012, 09:25 PM   #17
LittlebitsMommy
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No Dusty I didnt take it that way at all. I still you and think you are great..
I am one that totally believes you do what works for you and your family. Yes I think breastfeeding is great and I would try an breastfeed if I ever had another baby but I would never look down on someone for not doing it. I would encourage and of course help anyone that might need help with it but not force it down anyones throat or make them feel bad for not doing it. Did that make sense?
04-17-2012, 09:43 PM   #18
Catherine
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All three of my daughters were breastfeed. Sarah for the shortest time of 9 months, interestly no doctor was willing to tell me to consider stopping breastfeeding even when I was asking there opinion and was losing weight rapidly and down to 48 kgs and expecting second child.
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Mother of Sarah dx aged 16, Jan 2012
DX - CD 1/12, asthma
Small bowel to small bowel fistula

Meds: ), azathioprine 200mg, Mesalazine 1.2g x 2, seretide 250 x 2 (asthma), ventolin (as needed)

Currently no supplements.

Has previously taken Multi B, Caltrate, B12 & Iron

Prednisolone (from 30 mg 01/02/2012 to 17/06/2012, 30mg 24/10/12-28/12/12, 50mg 24/1/13-27/4/13)
04-17-2012, 10:22 PM   #19
DustyKat
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It makes perfect sense LbM and that is what I subscribe to as well.

Dusty. xxx
04-18-2012, 12:40 PM   #20
izzi'smom
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On a similar note, I had a friend (who is a HUGE bfing advocate) ask me if I considered relactating to provide bm for Izz. (I was considering EN at the time and she wondered "What better perfect food?") It wasn't something that would work for me at the time but she had a friend that said it helped her sons digestive problems.
I am glad that we have the education that we have today regarding breastfeeding-that it CAN be hard but there is a ton of help out there for those who are willing to accept it. It wasn't like that when *I* was a baby-and I am thankful for my bfing friends that helped me through it. )
04-19-2012, 02:21 PM   #21
Jenn
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Interesting question. And I wonder all the time if there isn't something else in common for all these kids. What dish/laundry detergent do you use? Is your water flouridated? what pesticides are used on school grounds? computer monitor radiation? It goes on and on! Too many individual and variable factors, I think, and no smoking guns.

I have one Crohn's kid and one non-Crohn's kid. They were both breastfed exclusive for 2 months, then combo breast/formula for another 4 months, then formula only til milk at 1 year. They both love milk. The formula was milk based, but different brands (for some reason - healthy one on Enfamil, Crohn's one on Similac). Milk these days comes from cows on growth hormones. Something else to chew on, I drank milk while breastfeeding...

Water supply for each their first year also totally different- 1st one born in Maryland, 2nd (Crohn's) in California. Healthy one prefers salt, Crohn's one has a huge sweet tooth. Ultimately? genes I guess....
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Jennifer ~ son dx at age 8, Sep 2010
currently on Humira, Feb 2012+, MTX (20mg) Aug 2017+, folic acid
past use: 6mp for Sep 2010-Apr 2011 (not effective enough), then Remicade April 2011-Dec 2011 (built antibodies); additional 6MP Aug 2012-Sep 2013; Periactin for appetite Sep 2010-Sep 2013
other: Centrum chewable multi; calcium-vitD;
Derma-Smoothe for psoriasis rashes; Alrex, Zaditor eye drops for vernal conjunctivitis; history of asthma, ear infections
04-19-2012, 07:53 PM   #22
Kev
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Let me jump in here with this. Neither myself nor my 4 siblings were breast fed (adopted). We all were raised on cows milk (literally gallons of it, my uncle had a dairy farm). We all drank the same water, breathed the same air, went to the same schools, churches, etc.. I develop Crohns. 1 sister developed MS. Yet, my birth mother has Crohns, and 4 of 5 of my half/siblings have Crohns. On another thread, discussing how things like MAP might be spread/transferred... thing of it is... IF everyone who was exposed to MAP (for example) were certain to develop Crohn's, more people would have it. In a perfect world, people who regulate milk and dairy industry would quarantine all animals with Johnes. Wonder what that would do to the incidence of it? Or, at the very least... change the way milk is pasteurized. Or at least go public with the info that this cow product MAY contain MAP, and let the buyer beware. (Whether or not MAP causes Crohns is one thing, but that MAP meat/dairy product is let into our food chain is totally another. You don't see that disclaimer when they are advertising 'it does a body good' or 'natures nearly perfect food'.)... But, I've slipped off onto a totally separate tangent.

My son's started on the breast (not mine), but they switched to cow's milk. When I think about all the milk they consumed (not to mention how much it cost... uncle had retired).. only to occasionally wonder if MAYBE it will turn into some deadly time delay fuse... ah, well.. the grey hairs in the photo come naturally. I should have known that there would be no quick and simple eureka. But, I thought it was worth tossing out there.
04-21-2012, 09:52 AM   #23
polly13
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Lucy wasnt breastfed at all. She was on 'comfort formula' forumal specailly designed for pucky babies until she was one and she hasn't every had cows milk as she absolutely hates it. Her dairy is mainly from yogurt and cheese.
polly
04-21-2012, 09:47 PM   #24
ChampsMom
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Son #1 - Nursed for 22 months. Introduced formula (8 oz/day) around 9 months to help while I away. Was never a fan of cows milk but ate everything under the sun, especially raw veggies, until he was diagnosed with Crohn's April 2010. 50% in height/50% weight

Son #2 - Nursed for 24 months. Introduced formula around 2 weeks old when he ended up sick and had to stay in the hospital - the continued to nurse. Went on cows milk at age 1 and has drank GALLONS a week ever since. 95% in height/50% weight.

Son #3 (here you go LbM) - Will be 3 next week and we are still going strong Lactose intolerant so on Lactaid for milk he drinks when he wants. 95% in height/95% weight.
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Mom of Champ (Alex)
Dx: CD April 2010
Meds: 04/25/13 switched back to Pentasa 3,500mg/day - Lialda brought lower abdominal cramps & exhaustion); 04/05/13 switched to Lialda 1.2GM 3 pills/day verse Pentasa 3,500mg/day, prevasaid 15 mg x 1/day, elemental iron, daily vitamin, calcium w/mag D, 50,000 mg Vitamin D/week, B12, B6 supplements, Cetrizine (for sinus issues)
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04-21-2012, 11:02 PM   #25
LittlebitsMommy
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Way to Go Shell!! I loved my nursing relationship with Ko. It doesnt work for everyone but it did for us
04-22-2012, 05:14 PM   #26
Kev
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I didn't become symptomatic till I'd been around for 4 decades, and since there is no way of knowing what I was exposed to and when; searching for the 'X' factor that caused my Crohn's is akin to searching for a miniscule needle in a giagantic haystack. However, in the alarming increase in the incidence of Crohns in increasingly younger children (at least that's my general conception/mis-conception... when I first started hanging out here 5-6 years ago, the number of people reporting they'd become ill at that tender an age seemed far smaller), well, I thought there might be opportunity to find a glimmer of good news amongst the tragedy. Kids that young just haven't had the time.. to have been exposed to as many possible culprits. Thought that we might find a common denominator. I still think it might be worth exploring, just don't know 'how to'.
01-29-2013, 11:05 AM   #27
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Liam (undiagnosed) now 10 could not tolerate breast milk, I persisted with breast feeing for six weeks (which in hindsight seems crazy) I blame it on the fact that I was a huge believer in breast feeding and really didn't want to bottle feed him. By that stage he was no longer simply not growing but loosing weight at an alarming rate and I had to abandon the idea. He was put on a soy based formula which his body was able to digest after which he started to grow normally.
01-29-2013, 07:40 PM   #28
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I love this thread! Interesting thing, when Caitlyn was diagnosed my baby was six weeks old. The GI doctor told me to nurse the baby as long as possible. From three months old my little one started having stomach issues. She is now four years old and we listened to the advice to keep nursing. At this point the doctor is saying all her labs and fecal calprotectin is normal so we will just keep an eye her. I keep hoping the prolonged nursing will help prevent her from getting sick. Whenever people comment why are you still nursing I can at least tell them the doctor said to! ( maybe I should get a doctors note LOL)
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Crohn's Dx'ed Sept 08
Allerg Imuran Sept 08
Fail Remicade Jan 09
Methotrex Oct 09-Aug 11
Pentasa stopped - nosebleeds
EENOct 31 - Nov 28th. Too hard!
Retried Remicade Dec 11
Stopped due 2 Anaphylactic Reaction
LDN Jan 2012-June 2014 Got My daughter back!
New secondary diagnosis: Gastroporesis Dec 2013
Lost remission June 2014
Started Entyvio April 2015. Decreased to every 4 weeks October 2015. Praying for remission.

Last edited by kimmidwife; 01-29-2013 at 07:41 PM. Reason: Spelling
01-30-2013, 06:44 PM   #29
my little penguin
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Too funny ...
I got the LOOK because I nursed DS until 19 months _
Again because we were also told to nurse as long as possible
But silly us - I stopped since he was found not to be allergic to milk at 19 months
Things went downhill after that
01-31-2013, 07:32 PM   #30
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I am currently tandem nursing my 4YO (dx with IBD at 2 YO) and 8 month old (no known issues). Although his GI doc knew he was still nursing at the time of diagnosis and encouraged it, she looked rather shocked when I mentioned it at his last appointment a few months ago! Because he has issues with dairy that means I avoid it too. His labs all remain normal and he presents very well clinically, except for an elevated fecal calprotectin. Doing one more round of labs in February to see if the levels are trending down, then will likely do scopes. I am increasingly nervous of the silent aspect of this disease. Still somewhat in denial that he won't just "grow out of it".
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