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Crohn's Disease Forum » Books, Multimedia, Research & News » UC- Its the Sulfur-So it would seem


08-25-2012, 01:21 PM   #1
mf15
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UC- Its the Sulfur-So it would seem

I won't bore you with a lot of studies,you can read my last thread on beta oxidation inhibitors,which
takes a strange path. What I believe is going on is sulfur in the diet,including inorganic sulfate in water.
In a nutshell,this is what I believe might be going on.

UC in many starts distally, butyrate the preferred fuel for colonocytes is mainly manufactured in the colon from starches and fibers/carbs that escape digestion in the small intestine. Fermentation in the colon of these carbs is proximaly and decreases distally,along with butyrate concentration. So by the time the stool gets to the rectum it is high depleted in (SCFA)short chain fatty acids. So in the distal colon and rectum the cells are depleted in energy.
Perhaps not a problem.

As the food progresses down the colon the carb fermentaion ends,and the bacteria start to eat protein and sulfur compounds,ammonia,hydrogen sulfide and mercapto compounds start to form and increase as the stool
progresses. These compounds all inhibit beta oxidation and can block the CoA path, beta oxidation is how the coloncytes use the butyrate for energy.

So by the time what little butyrate gets to the distal colon and rectum,the
colonocytes can't use it for energy.

I have also just found where methonine restriction increases tight junctions in the colon.

So with the overload of protein,and sulfur compounds,sulfates,sulfites,sulfated polysaccharides (carrageenan),brominated compounds in the diet some of us get UC. The
high sulfur diet also leads to more sulfate reducing bacteria in the colon,excess fat also seems to increase taurine conjugated bile,which these sulfate reducers eat. Once they build up they can then of course attack and dissolve your sulfomucin mucus,then get past the mucus to the colon mucosa,then the immune sys starts to attack
resulting in inflammation. As to why the immune sys does not stop attacking is perhaps another story.
Many of these compounds are also direct toxins to colon cells,such as hydrogen sulfide.

It would seem that a low sulfur diet,which has worked in small trials is the way to go. Carnitine suplements
may be a possible work around,carnitine involved in the transport of butyrate into cells.
In addition have to get off of most processed foods with all the sulfate,carrageenan and iron added.
I would also not drink water in which the sulfate has not been removed.
Some may recall the terrible sulfur gases prior to getting UC,or while you have it.
This is my best shot along with reduced linoleic acid fats,veggie oils.

Old Mike

PS:Sure antibiotics can trigger UC by killing off good bacteria,also gut infections,
and of course there is a genetic component.
08-26-2012, 07:49 AM   #2
David
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Mike,

Is there a good source that lists sulfur containing foods so people can test out your theory if they want? How about affordable water tests so people can find out if sulfate is in their water supply?

Have you tried it yet?
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08-26-2012, 09:52 AM   #3
mf15
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Here is one link.
just search sulfur in foods,high sulfur foods,low sulfur foods,sulfite in foods,carageenan.

http://www.dryarnell.com/wp-content/...ve_colitis.pdf

As far as water goes,sulfate is in everyones drinking water to some degree,except of course if you drink RO,or di or distilled.
I just bought a Zerowater water filtering pitcher,which removes sulfate,note other brands may not remove it.
Old Mike

Last edited by mf15; 08-26-2012 at 10:56 AM.
08-26-2012, 10:38 AM   #4
bangarang
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Awesome, knew there was some relation to it. I've been avoiding high sulfur foods as much as possible the past a couple years definitely noticed positive effect.
01-27-2013, 06:58 PM   #5
2wsxzaq1
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Hi Old Mike, How did you find out the ZeroWater filter removes sulfate?? I live next to a volcano, literally, and our water is collected rain water. I have uc, mostly in remission.(knock wood) I cannot drink the rain water. I noticed that reducing my meat intake to 150 grams a day seems to make me feel better. I too saw the articles linking lowered SCAAs (sulfur containing amino acids), methionine and cysteine, to improved tight junctions in the gut. So I will try out reducing the sulfate content of my drinking water also. Thanks to you
01-27-2013, 07:03 PM   #6
mf15
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It removes just about everything,it comes with a conductivity meter,which reads 000,on water ran through the filter.
I would suppose the worse your water is the less time the filter will last.
Old Mike
http://www.zerowater.com/
01-27-2013, 07:40 PM   #7
2wsxzaq1
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Hi again, I just read "Influence of dietary factors on the clinical course of ulcerative colitis: a prospective cohort study"
S L Jowett,1 C J Seal,2 M S Pearce,3 E Phillips,4 W Gregory,4 J R Barton,1 and M R Welfare1 Quote "The strongest relationship between a dietary factor and an increased risk of relapse observed in this study was for a high intake of meat, particularly of red meat and processed meat. This is a novel finding. Consumption of large amounts of sulphur and sulphate were also associated with an increased risk of relapse, and although they may have been spurious findings due to the number of statistical tests performed, these components of food may offer an explanation for the increased risk seen with meat. Red meat, for instance, is stated as a food to be avoided on a low sulphur amino acid diet28 and processed foods contain large amounts of sulphate as a food additive.23 Similarly, a high alcohol intake was associated with an increased risk of relapse and many alcoholic drinks contain large amounts of sulphates as additives.23 A high sulphur diet, either from sulphur amino acids or sulphate additives, results in the generation of hydrogen sulphide26,27 and mucosal damage in the colon." Food for thought, I wonder why this hasn't been publicized more?
01-27-2013, 07:57 PM   #8
mf15
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2w: If you are into reading articles,here are two large threads, of mine on healing well,have fun. IBD is so complex the doc's go down so many pathways and they still have no idea. These are just some possible causes and solutions,do they work probably not. All this may not matter one bit if say the cause is MAP,or something
else that people have been exposed to since 1920 or so. Whatever it is probably started to cause a problem with people prior to 1920. Could be as simple as chlorination 1911 in the USA,wesson oil1899,crisco 1911,I will add saccharin but I have not eaten it to my knowledge.
I just research stuff I find that might have a connection to UC/IBD,been doing it
for 30 or so years,and still have UC,nor could I save my sons colon.
I am also looking for some minutia that the doc's might over look,so far no luck.
Right now I am most interested in serotonin toxicity,see the other thread on
this site. Giving my healingwell threads since I tend to to know where they are and may have more stuff there. I hang out at both sites, there are a lot of excellent researchers here.
Old Mike
http://www.healingwell.com/community...f=38&m=2493840
http://www.healingwell.com/community...f=38&m=2496733

If you have bad water you might like my iron thread.
http://www.healingwell.com/community...f=38&m=2427189

Last edited by mf15; 01-27-2013 at 08:28 PM.
01-27-2013, 08:41 PM   #9
2wsxzaq1
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Hi and thanks for your reply. I will check those out. As for a triggering event how about the increasing access to dental care ie mercury/silver amalgam fillings. Be interesting to see if the early Jewish sufferers of CD show a correlation to dental care....For myself, I was thinking that fecal transplants followed by a permanent low sulfur or sulfate diet might be the avenue I will try. BTW I have had great success using powdered Turmeric (up to 3 Tblspoons mixed into food) for stopping bleeding in my intestines. I prefer it to prednisone and it worked quickly for me. Best, 2wsxzaq1
01-27-2013, 08:51 PM   #10
mf15
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2w Yes of course mercury fillings are a possible cause,even root canals.
Thanks,had all my fillings pulled back in 2000 still have UC,have also tried chelation to remove mercury from my cells,no luck. I have tried tumeric,but not that much,might give it a shot,if the amino acids don't work.
Old Mike
02-22-2013, 08:27 PM   #11
NewbieMom
 
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Location: Newton, Massachusetts
@2W - is Turmeric hard to take? does it have negative as well as positive side effects?
02-22-2013, 08:29 PM   #12
NewbieMom
 
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Location: Newton, Massachusetts
@ old Mike - My son is on sulfasalazine - I assume for those who have sulfur issues that is bad? (Since being on sulfasalazine - and also removing foods including wheat and dairy - his ileum has cleared up, as has the inflammation in some of his colon. Another part of the colon is still inflamed. An herbalist (who is an MD in China) told me I should see if he is allergic to the sulfur (by putting some under tape on his arm for 3 days if I can't find another test).
02-22-2013, 08:37 PM   #13
mf15
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Newibiemom:Sulfasalazine is not the sulfur I am talking about,the sulfasalazine is a med.
Some people are alergic to sulfasalazine,your son would know it if he was.
What I was taling about was sulfates and sulfites from diet.
Old Mike
02-22-2013, 08:51 PM   #14
NewbieMom
 
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Location: Newton, Massachusetts
Old Mike - Thanks - just wondering if there was a relationship...
03-24-2013, 06:35 AM   #15
juljul
 
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@2W - is Turmeric hard to take? does it have negative as well as positive side effects?
Hi NewbieMom,
You just have to be careful with turmeric if you have some gallbladder or liver issues. It is a known bile stimulator. I believe this to be true. Sorry if TMI but it seemed to help resolve many floating stools for me...probably through bile stimulation and thus improved fat absorption, though they are still paler than normal for me.

If you take a lot it could make you dehydrated also so you have to keep an eye on your liquid intake...just make sure you drink enough if you are on any high dose turmeric or curcumin supplements.

I make my own tablets and keep them in the freezer and then just down them with some plain yogurt. I don't like the taste so I keep them frozen so they don't melt on the tongue quick enough to taste them. Black pepper, if you can use that alongside turmeric, contains piperine which in one study was said to boost curcumin by as much as 2000%. That one study has had a lot of influence on nutraceutical companies in terms of competition for more bioavailable curcumin/turmeric supplements. There are other antioxidants besides curcumin in turmeric. I cannot for the life of me remember what they are called, if I remember or find an article I'll post back. Or another member might like to comment.

Turmeric is excellent in my books. I would be lying on the sofa in agony still if it wasn't for turmeric. I still flare but turmeric has made a world of difference (Alhamdulillah). Sadly, for me, it seems to have hampered my diagnosis though and I have been told by one Dr they don't acknowledge turmeric (he was asian lol ...they live on turmeric!!! ).....meaning that because I respond to some sort of (natural) anti-inflammatory positively, that does not mean we will accept that is an indicator you have inflammation. To moi, it just shows what a stranglehold drug companies have on Drs!!! There has to be some Drs out there who are open-minded in this regard. German Drs (thanks to German Commission E) prescribe many natural anti-inflammatory supplements to their patients. I would therefore expect a German Dr to believe that responding favourably to turmeric/curcumin is an indicator that something is amiss with the gut in terms of inflammation. UK Drs are in denial about these supplements. If anyone knows of a good Crohns/IBD Dr in the UK who has integrity and courage and is not afraid to acknowledge supplements....please can you pass on their name. Many thanks.

:::edit::: I forgot to add that if you are on any meds, it is best to have a word with your pharmacist before taking turmeric, to be sure there are no drug-erb interactions. You can space them out if necessary usually. Turmeric might have an effect on the absorption of some beta blockers for instance ...decreasing absorption of some, increasing absorption of others...decreased absorption of talinol (a beta bocker) for instance, but increased absorption of midazolam (a benzodiazepine) (a ref on that: http://medicinalplants.us/herb-drug-...tions-turmeric ). :::end of edit:::

Just my two pennies worth.

juljul xx
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Anything I say on here is not a substitute for medical advice. I speak only from my life experience. I am not a medic. Please don't take anything I say as medical advice. Thanks...

Last edited by juljul; 03-24-2013 at 07:25 AM. Reason: add a note on herb-drug interactions
03-24-2013, 06:50 AM   #16
juljul
 
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Hi old mike,
Picking up the thread on Sulphur and UC (my last post was to NewbieMum on turmeric, this thread).......
I am undiagnosed. However, I have long noted that I respond negatively to sulphur rich foods .....particularly if they are cooked which seems to liberate the sulphur compounds. And I was recently prescribed a sulphur-antibiotic for a UTI, and yes it "inflammed" my gut. At a recent food sensitivity test, the lady confirmed my high sulphur sensitivity, and also tested highly sensitive to those foodstuffs known rich in it....eggs, onions, garlic in particular. I also proved highly sensitive to chlorine....which explains why I can't even drink a sip of tap water without wanting to vomit, when it is at 'the season' in particular, i.e. when the water treatment plant deems more chlorine is necessary, whiich seems to be after a heavy rainful.

Anyone else have an issue with chlorine in tap water...either drunk or in the shower. The food sensitivity lady said I should avoid steamy bathrooms and long showers....for the chlorine exposure.

juljul xx
03-24-2013, 07:09 AM   #17
mf15
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Here is a study on sulfites out of the UK,you may have read it in one of my other threads,not sure about chlorine.
Old Mike
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC549081/
03-24-2013, 08:08 AM   #18
juljul
 
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Hi Old MIke,
I am quite new to the forum so have not read any of your other threads as of yet.... hope to do so
I should add that I undiagnosed as of yet though I definitelyt know I have a major issue with sulphur. I suspect Crohn's rather than colitis, unless I have micrscpic colitis....
Thanks for the link
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