I know that certain foods bother everyone with crohn's, but what I am curious about is if it actually harms us when we consume them? When I eat something such as chocolate or lettuce I feel sick to my stomach. Now, I can sometimes overlook the pain I know comes with eating these things and just suffer through it. Is this a bad choice with my crohns? Am I making my crohn's worse? Or is it simply just pain? I'm still new and trying to learn. I don't want to harm my body.
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Do certain foods harm you?
- Thread starter hannahni
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rygon
Moderator
with me yes. I find I get more bleeding, swelling , pain etc when I eat my forbidden foods. As far as Im aware it irritates the bowels ( think of it as rubbing as blister) Personally I think the pain/sickness is worth it on some occasions but it definitely isnt helping things, so i try to keep it to a minimum
Thanks for the post rygon. I have gone off my low-res diet a few times lately and have felt the pain. But this is another question I have. Can crohn's grow larger? I have it in my small intestine, but I know it can be round in more places. I'm worried that it might grow into a bigger issue than it is right now and I'm really curious how much diet actually cones into play. I'm worried that if I eat certain foods it will cause my crohn's to spread. Is this a ridiculous worry and am I only thinking this way because I'm uneducated on the matter?
Diet is a key factor i have found if i eat something really fatty or has some spice or sauce on it, it will make me bleed more have more mucus pain cramps and other stuff as tar as crohns spreading from certain foods i have read that highly processed or refined foods can definitely make it worse as it makes the inflammation stronger and with more inflammation it might spread or get worse i have designed a diet that i know works best for me and try and stick to it best i can like today i ate some salami which is homemade but still messed me up big time and i couldn't sleep from the pain and heartburn among other things i have had crohns for 5 years and in that time with multiple flares and it spreading i can tolerate less and less food so now im dairy grain and sugar free and works great but i cant tolerate many raw veggies or fruits so have to cook most of them all i can suggest is keep a food diary see what your trigger foods are and play with your diet like i used to love raw tomato and lettuce since my last big flare i cant tolerate either cooked or raw get heartburn blood and bloating then cramps so as you see you have to stick to a diet that works for you and stick to it,
Also now ill be trying the scd diet again
Also now ill be trying the scd diet again
I've never found any links to food and my crohns. I've tried cutting out certain foods, or eating different ones, more, less etc, and found no difference.
I was also told that food shouldn't make a difference, as research hasnt proved food is a link to crohns, but to colitus - but then lots of people on here seem to have issues with certain foods, so I don't know.
Crohns doesn't "grow" but it can spread. Mine is currently only in my large intestine, but that's not to say that when they whip that out, it'll find itself in my small intestine at another time, or down my food pipes.
I was also told that food shouldn't make a difference, as research hasnt proved food is a link to crohns, but to colitus - but then lots of people on here seem to have issues with certain foods, so I don't know.
Crohns doesn't "grow" but it can spread. Mine is currently only in my large intestine, but that's not to say that when they whip that out, it'll find itself in my small intestine at another time, or down my food pipes.
Remember that this is a support forum first and foremost. Please do your best to not attack other posters.
Crohn's can affect anyone who has it from their mouth to anus and can even cause issues outside of the digestive tract. See Extraintestinal Manifestations: http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=22407
It's really easy to blame food for everything yet there are far too few studies done to where they don't hold any weight in my book. When in a flare food is an issue because you need nourishment and it has to pass through damaged tissue. Of course its going to irritate what's already damaged but actually causing damage is an entirely different subject.
When in a flare you'll learn what your "trigger foods" are. Trigger foods are what cause more symptoms (diarrhea, pain, nausea, gas etc) such as fiber since humans can't digest it in the first place. Its an irritant to anyone with or without IBD.
When in remission you'll still have issues with obvious irritants like fiber but nothing near as bad as when in a flare. When in remission you don't have damaged tissue for it to irritate causing more pain or diarrhea etc so you can eat whatever you want. Whatever you personally can tolerate. You do not have to follow a specific diet while in remission just keep in mind that eating healthy is always important even if you don't have IBD so make sure you're getting proper nutrients so you can live a healthy and happy remission. Having a candy bar or salad while in remission is not going to trigger a flare.
Crohn's can affect anyone who has it from their mouth to anus and can even cause issues outside of the digestive tract. See Extraintestinal Manifestations: http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=22407
It's really easy to blame food for everything yet there are far too few studies done to where they don't hold any weight in my book. When in a flare food is an issue because you need nourishment and it has to pass through damaged tissue. Of course its going to irritate what's already damaged but actually causing damage is an entirely different subject.
When in a flare you'll learn what your "trigger foods" are. Trigger foods are what cause more symptoms (diarrhea, pain, nausea, gas etc) such as fiber since humans can't digest it in the first place. Its an irritant to anyone with or without IBD.
When in remission you'll still have issues with obvious irritants like fiber but nothing near as bad as when in a flare. When in remission you don't have damaged tissue for it to irritate causing more pain or diarrhea etc so you can eat whatever you want. Whatever you personally can tolerate. You do not have to follow a specific diet while in remission just keep in mind that eating healthy is always important even if you don't have IBD so make sure you're getting proper nutrients so you can live a healthy and happy remission. Having a candy bar or salad while in remission is not going to trigger a flare.
We were also told by my son's GI and dietitien that diet does not have a direct impact on Crohns. It can affect symptoms, however.
My son's treatment was Enteral nutrition to induce remission and has been his maintenance treatment since last year. He is in clinical remission (no symptoms), however, not biochemical remission as MRE still shows inflammation (so meds will probably have to be added). But, even with inflammation present, he is able to eat all foods without problem.
What our dietitien advised is that food can be used in response to symptoms and to assist in 'controlling' symptoms (but not eliminating them), i.e. rice can help alleviate diarrhea, low fibre/residue foods are easier to digest/less stressful on bowels during flares, etc. i.e. I have given my son prune juice when he was constipated.
He was told to avoid seeds and pieces of nuts (ie nut butters are fine) as inflammation can cause thickening and seeds and nuts can contribute to an obstruction. He was also told to 'limit' fruit/veg skins as they harder to digest.
Having said this, I do believe some people will find that certain foods cause them problems. From what I've read, it seems that dairy, gluten, spicy, high fibre, high fat are some foods that cause problems for some people (as is also the case for some people without crohns, ie my husband does not have crohns, however, 2 or 3 meals of 'fast food' or rich, fatty meals within a short time span will cause problems for him). My understanding is that while eating foods that 'bother' you can cause symptoms, they will not trigger a flare nor change the progress of the disease.
Our dietitien also made the point that many people will try gluten-free or other restrictive diet and feel better. But, she believes often the reason they feel better is that their diet, as a whole, has improved with few prepared and fast food.
My son's treatment was Enteral nutrition to induce remission and has been his maintenance treatment since last year. He is in clinical remission (no symptoms), however, not biochemical remission as MRE still shows inflammation (so meds will probably have to be added). But, even with inflammation present, he is able to eat all foods without problem.
What our dietitien advised is that food can be used in response to symptoms and to assist in 'controlling' symptoms (but not eliminating them), i.e. rice can help alleviate diarrhea, low fibre/residue foods are easier to digest/less stressful on bowels during flares, etc. i.e. I have given my son prune juice when he was constipated.
He was told to avoid seeds and pieces of nuts (ie nut butters are fine) as inflammation can cause thickening and seeds and nuts can contribute to an obstruction. He was also told to 'limit' fruit/veg skins as they harder to digest.
Having said this, I do believe some people will find that certain foods cause them problems. From what I've read, it seems that dairy, gluten, spicy, high fibre, high fat are some foods that cause problems for some people (as is also the case for some people without crohns, ie my husband does not have crohns, however, 2 or 3 meals of 'fast food' or rich, fatty meals within a short time span will cause problems for him). My understanding is that while eating foods that 'bother' you can cause symptoms, they will not trigger a flare nor change the progress of the disease.
Our dietitien also made the point that many people will try gluten-free or other restrictive diet and feel better. But, she believes often the reason they feel better is that their diet, as a whole, has improved with few prepared and fast food.
If diet doesn't have an impact then why did diet (eternal nutrition) put him in remission?
Your dietitian is living in the past,
Diet has been extensively linked to intestinal permeability and immune disorders,
Yes, Tesscorm, I think that we are talking about two different things here.
I know that certain foods (and amounts of alcohol) affect my symptoms. I have learnt this by repeatedly making the same mistakes.:lol:
Whether they affect/have affected the actual progression of my Crohn's is another matter and one that is still creating a lot of discussion without there being a definitive answer that is universally accepted. Even on this Forum there are people who believe implicitly in one view or the other because of their own personal experience. As far as I am concerned, the jury is still out.
I know that certain foods (and amounts of alcohol) affect my symptoms. I have learnt this by repeatedly making the same mistakes.:lol:
Whether they affect/have affected the actual progression of my Crohn's is another matter and one that is still creating a lot of discussion without there being a definitive answer that is universally accepted. Even on this Forum there are people who believe implicitly in one view or the other because of their own personal experience. As far as I am concerned, the jury is still out.
Hugh, I really don't have a definitive answer for you re EN. I'm definitely not an expert on the scientific background or processes of enteral nutrition, however, my understanding/opinion is that EN is not simply a 'diet', I think it is more of a 'treatment' rather than a 'diet'. It is formulated to be very easily digested which allowed my son to receive all necessary nutrition while providing bowel rest for a considerable time (six weeks) when his bowels were actively inflamed (beyond his current level of inflammation). It also has has anti-inflammatory and mucosal healing properties.
The initial six weeks reduced much of the inflammation, but not all. Maintenance EN (1/2 dose, 5x per week plus regular diet) has kept symptoms at bay and the remaining inflammation steady. Why does the 'maintenance' work (benefits of bowel rest are gone with a regular diet)? In addition to the anti-inflammatory/healing properties, I believe ingesting the necessary nutrition aids his body in the healing process by providing the tools it needs to heal as best it can.
I know there are many who have used exclusive EN to induce remission but once diet is added back, symptoms return; however, if diet was directly linked to the 'disease' (not symptoms), returning to a regular diet should have affected my son as well???
Your second point... Diet has been extensively linked to intestinal permeability and immune disorders, I'd certainly be interested in more info.
Susan - yes, I agree with you... I believe that certain foods can affect people differently. And, also agree that the 'jury is still out', I think diet is like all else in Crohns, very individual and what works for one, may not work for another. :yfaint:
The initial six weeks reduced much of the inflammation, but not all. Maintenance EN (1/2 dose, 5x per week plus regular diet) has kept symptoms at bay and the remaining inflammation steady. Why does the 'maintenance' work (benefits of bowel rest are gone with a regular diet)? In addition to the anti-inflammatory/healing properties, I believe ingesting the necessary nutrition aids his body in the healing process by providing the tools it needs to heal as best it can.
I know there are many who have used exclusive EN to induce remission but once diet is added back, symptoms return; however, if diet was directly linked to the 'disease' (not symptoms), returning to a regular diet should have affected my son as well???
Your second point... Diet has been extensively linked to intestinal permeability and immune disorders, I'd certainly be interested in more info.
Susan - yes, I agree with you... I believe that certain foods can affect people differently. And, also agree that the 'jury is still out', I think diet is like all else in Crohns, very individual and what works for one, may not work for another. :yfaint:
That did read very critical Ozboz, not sure at me or in general??
I don't really see my crohns as a digestive disorder, I see it as an immune system disorder. I may of course be completely wrong, it's just my opinion and how I see things.
It was the reason they say I can't donate blood, because it's an immuno disorder, it's the reason they've always given me immunosuppresants to stop my immune system fighting itself, I have asthma, eczema, hayfever, nut and pet allergies and a whole other manner of skin sensitivities - to me it makes sense to be immune related rather than digestive. For me, no certain type of food seems to have made a difference.
Having said all that, I recognise that we are all different, and that some people can notice differences in food.
I don't really see my crohns as a digestive disorder, I see it as an immune system disorder. I may of course be completely wrong, it's just my opinion and how I see things.
It was the reason they say I can't donate blood, because it's an immuno disorder, it's the reason they've always given me immunosuppresants to stop my immune system fighting itself, I have asthma, eczema, hayfever, nut and pet allergies and a whole other manner of skin sensitivities - to me it makes sense to be immune related rather than digestive. For me, no certain type of food seems to have made a difference.
Having said all that, I recognise that we are all different, and that some people can notice differences in food.
I asked my GI this exact question. If I eat something that makes my symptoms worse, am I actually doing damage? He said no. He said it may make me feel like crap if I'm already flaring, but it won't cause a flare or do any physical damage to my intestines.
Absolutely, yes. My first flare was limited to my TI only. My current flare is my TI and my entire colon (but not my rectum). However, my belief (and my GI's) is that foods will not make it grow. It's a mean little beast and will come out of nowhere and go wherever it wants to go.
I'm seeing a registered dietician who specializes in Crohn's and she said low fiber/low-res only while flaring. I'm supposed to stay under 13g fiber/day. Nothing raw, no nuts, no seeds, no skins. Basically, nothing that my intestines have to work to digest.
Because when something is irritated/inflamed, rubbing it with sandpaper (i.e., fiber) will not allow it to heal. But once healed, it can properly handle the sandpaper and stay smooth. I doubt diet put him in remission. Diet allowed his bowels to have a break and heal themselves.
Persephone300 im never critical of a fellow crohnie sorry that it came out that way. I was being critical at the medical profession as when i first got diagnosed a supposed gi professor kept telling me diet doesn't affect ibd so i went out started eating whatever i wanted and was back in hospital within a few months that was 5 years ago when i was first starting on this journey it was my mum that kept saying how can diet not be a manor factor in an bowel/ digestive disorder and i have to agree that when your bowels are inflamed and damaged and ulcerated food has to be the number 1 trigger
CrohnsChicago
Super Moderator
Last night I had some of the worst cramping I ever experienced. I ate very little yesterday (Breakfast: greek yogurt, honey, almonds; Lunch: 1 mini baked turkey muffin containing spinach and feta cheese, 1 package of ramen noodles; Dinner: 1 mini baked turkey muffin and steamed veggies)
The steamed veggies (broccoli, cauliflower and carrots) made me nervous eating them because I have avoided much steamed veggies since diagnosed. I typically only stick to leafy, soft (squash, etc) or bean-like veggies. I made it a point to chew my food very well and very slowly. However in the middle of the night I had the worst cramps I have experienced yet after having no real cramping issues for a while. I would wake up and while there was no urge/desire to pass stool, the cramping/spasms persisted while the food traveled through my gut (I could feel it) and had me hunched over walking to the bathroom to pee or curled in fetal position in pain while I tried to sleep. It went away after a period of time. Morning stool didn't look any different than it has lately and that's a good thing. I have felt fine today despite still no real appetite like yesterday.
The only thing I can contribute it to are the broccoli/cauliflower/carrots. I think maybe these foods are possible triggers for me and have the potential to cause extreme discomfort. All the other foods I ate that day I eat normally in small doses without an issue.
The steamed veggies (broccoli, cauliflower and carrots) made me nervous eating them because I have avoided much steamed veggies since diagnosed. I typically only stick to leafy, soft (squash, etc) or bean-like veggies. I made it a point to chew my food very well and very slowly. However in the middle of the night I had the worst cramps I have experienced yet after having no real cramping issues for a while. I would wake up and while there was no urge/desire to pass stool, the cramping/spasms persisted while the food traveled through my gut (I could feel it) and had me hunched over walking to the bathroom to pee or curled in fetal position in pain while I tried to sleep. It went away after a period of time. Morning stool didn't look any different than it has lately and that's a good thing. I have felt fine today despite still no real appetite like yesterday.
The only thing I can contribute it to are the broccoli/cauliflower/carrots. I think maybe these foods are possible triggers for me and have the potential to cause extreme discomfort. All the other foods I ate that day I eat normally in small doses without an issue.
kiny
Well-known member
Think Enteral nutrition works like someone said and some other reasons.
When they do fecal diversion for people who had surgery, they noticed that the wounds healed faster in those spots where the "fecal stream" as they call it is diversed. Food has bacteria, even "clean" food, which could cause an immune response, limiting exposure to any bacteria at all, will always make wounds heal faster, EN is extremely low in bacteria compared to "real" food.
Another reason EN could be helping is that some have a really good amino acid profile, many amino acids are involved in stopping ROS damage (oxidative stress), and glutamine is involved in repair, others are involved in IL10, etc.
Another reason they believe it could help is because it's low in undigested particles, people with crohn's disease react differently to metals, their response is lower for whatever reason, maybe because microparticles from metals entered their inflamed tissue, I don't know, all they know is that EN is low in microparticles, which could be the reason it helps.
(I have to say I was one of the ppl who didn't believe EN would help because I saw no reason why, but there are legitimate reasons why EN could work)
EN is not a diet, it works very differently from diet, because EN works does not mean diets like paleo and SCD and all the other magical diets works, most of them probably do not work at all.
Also don't think every EN is created equal, some have a bad amino acid profile, EN is not the same as Fortimel and Ensure, EN costs so much because of the filtering they use to make it so bioavailable, they break the peptide bonds from the proteins, it's often hydrolised whey isolate which is very expensive to make. (it's why EN can smell hideous, high quality hyrolised whey smells hideous too) Can't survive on just hydrolised whey, would end up getting kidney damage, EN has sugars in it too, but no fat. When I read about those crohn diets that avoid fat and sugar, they make no sense, a pure protein diet would end up killing you because the first thing that would die is the kidneys. Protein is good in EN, but there's a reason there is sugar in there too, can't survive on protein alone.
When they do fecal diversion for people who had surgery, they noticed that the wounds healed faster in those spots where the "fecal stream" as they call it is diversed. Food has bacteria, even "clean" food, which could cause an immune response, limiting exposure to any bacteria at all, will always make wounds heal faster, EN is extremely low in bacteria compared to "real" food.
Another reason EN could be helping is that some have a really good amino acid profile, many amino acids are involved in stopping ROS damage (oxidative stress), and glutamine is involved in repair, others are involved in IL10, etc.
Another reason they believe it could help is because it's low in undigested particles, people with crohn's disease react differently to metals, their response is lower for whatever reason, maybe because microparticles from metals entered their inflamed tissue, I don't know, all they know is that EN is low in microparticles, which could be the reason it helps.
(I have to say I was one of the ppl who didn't believe EN would help because I saw no reason why, but there are legitimate reasons why EN could work)
EN is not a diet, it works very differently from diet, because EN works does not mean diets like paleo and SCD and all the other magical diets works, most of them probably do not work at all.
Also don't think every EN is created equal, some have a bad amino acid profile, EN is not the same as Fortimel and Ensure, EN costs so much because of the filtering they use to make it so bioavailable, they break the peptide bonds from the proteins, it's often hydrolised whey isolate which is very expensive to make. (it's why EN can smell hideous, high quality hyrolised whey smells hideous too) Can't survive on just hydrolised whey, would end up getting kidney damage, EN has sugars in it too, but no fat. When I read about those crohn diets that avoid fat and sugar, they make no sense, a pure protein diet would end up killing you because the first thing that would die is the kidneys. Protein is good in EN, but there's a reason there is sugar in there too, can't survive on protein alone.
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