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Crohn's Disease Forum » General IBD Discussion » Do you believe crohn's is purely genetic?


 
10-24-2012, 09:38 AM   #61
Wooddy
 
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Don't read into this and say it isn't fair comparing the genomes of a mouse and a duck...

Gianni
This isn't a contest, so being fair doesn't apply. There is nothing fair or unfair about it. It is about understanding the context on the same level so that we can move on.


What definition? In biology a genome refers to the organisms complete genetic make up.. hints the words genes and chromosome combined to make genome. Even the dictionary has this definition.
Gianni
I am not trying to split hairs here. I just want to learn as much as possible by removing as much ambiguity as possible. The larger and more diverse the gene pool is in a particular genome the stronger itís considered to be. Do you agree that is correct? Because, the response you gave indicates that you do not agree with that concept. When you say, "What definition?Ē it implies that you are not certain of nature of the context that is being addressed. Which is fine, but instead of making an irrelevant reference to the dictionary it would be easier to cite an example. For instance, if you gave an example of a specific genetic characteristic that makes an identical gene "stronger" in one subset of people over another it might help explain exactly what you are trying to say.

To clarify, when I say larger and more diverse I donít mean larger or different karyotype, it's not really that obscure, otherwise I would be talking about the difference between ducks and mice instead of humans.

Some (not all) of the things that you suggest or theorize in this thread make a lot of sense and you describe them with an interesting non-conventional angle of approach that is gratifyingly unique. It takes a lot to put your ideas out there to dangle for others to scrutinize. Not very many people feel comfortable doing that but I it is an excellent way to learn. I am not trying to put you on the defensive. It might sound that way, but it's hard to display affect when you type, even with the availability of emoticons

The concepts and terminology discussed in this thread have a deep-rooted technical background and the colloquial use of phrases like "strong genome" introduce layer of ambiguity that makes it harder to sort out what you are trying to explain. Thinking conventionally, I am wondering if you are suggesting that "fortified" and "unfortified" would more accurately describe what you mean when you refer to a genome as being "stronger" or "weaker"? If that is not the case, please elaborate, because I am missing something.
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Last edited by Wooddy; 10-24-2012 at 01:14 PM. Reason: grammar and syntax errors
10-24-2012, 12:01 PM   #62
Ihurt
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Very interesting theories indeed. I have not been dx yet, I am going through some tests( tomorrow MRE of small intestines). Though I have been sick since 2003 with all sorts of other chronic illnesses.

Is Crohn's genetic, well I think it can be in some people, but I wont say that it is exclusively genetic. I do believe that crohn's disease and other immune issues may be triggered by diet in some people as well as by medications. If you think about it, Crohn's disease is not seen in the third world countries really. The reason I think is because the foods are not processed ( pesticides etc..) like they are here. Also a lot of these places do not have access to all kinds of fast food places and such. Their food is usually eaten in it's natural state( raw). They also do not have access to medications like we do here. When they get infections, they just deal with it or use some type of natural remedy to try and get well. ( which sucks of course as sometimes meds are needed and they do save lives sometimes). Also over here the FDA regulates everything( which is good, but they do let a lot of stuff pass through that probably should not have been in my opinion). For instance, here they add all sorts of hormones and stuff to milk which God knows what it is doing to our kids. They feed our animals here antibitoics like it is part of their regular meals( this is not good). Well then we ingest the meats and get all the bad stuff with it. This does not happen in third world countries.

I mean I sure they get sick with a lot of other stuff in these countries due to sanitation issues with their food, but that is a different story.

Here is another interesting fact I learned. AWhile back I read a story about how celiacs has started to pop up in a lot more people. I remember reading that many people are getting celiacs now because the wheat farmers have cross-germinated their wheat with a hardy type weed that is not digestible to the human gut. They seen a huge spike in people coming down with celiacs after this happened. And of course the reason the wheat farmers do this is likely so the wheat can grow in abundance and hence they make more money. I also read that Ireland is the one place where they still harvest wheat in it's natural form( it is not cross-germinated with anything else).

So yeah, I would like to say that I truely believe that a lot of these orphan diseases that are popping up like crazy have a lot to do with foods, and environmental issues( pollution etc..), and medications and chemicals that the human body was never meant to comsume.

I know in my particular case, I was a very healthy person for the most part, and I got a flu shot and two weeks later my health took a downfall. So in my case I do think chemicals played a huge part in me getting sick.
10-24-2012, 01:26 PM   #63
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I was a very healthy person for the most part, and I got a flu shot and two weeks later my health took a downfall. So in my case I do think chemicals played a huge part in me getting sick.
I also got a flu shot about 6 months before i got sick, not sure I can deduce it was the cause though or a causing factor.


Also over here the FDA regulates everything( which is good, but they do let a lot of stuff pass through that probably should not have been in my opinion).
The FDA is about as corrupt as they come, they are awful at their jobs. I really think we would be better without them.
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10-24-2012, 01:29 PM   #64
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I am wondering if you are suggesting that "fortified" and "unfortified" would more accurately describe what you mean when you refer to a genome as being "stronger" or "weaker"?
I suppose you can call it that.
10-24-2012, 01:52 PM   #65
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Well, since my sister, my brother and myself all have Crohn's, I'm sure genetics play a big role, but IMHO there must be a trigger to get the ball rolling.
10-24-2012, 02:58 PM   #66
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You have a point Gianni. I mean I do know that I am constantly hearing about drugs that were approved by the FDA and deemed safe, then a year later you find out a bunch of people are dying from taking the drug. It is pretty scary.







The FDA is about as corrupt as they come, they are awful at their jobs. I really think we would be better without them.[/QUOTE]
10-24-2012, 07:10 PM   #67
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gianni, i was wondering if your crohns occurs higher up your small intestine, in addition to the ileum? or to your knowledge is only the ileum affected, or is it the typical ileo-colonic?
10-24-2012, 07:16 PM   #68
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Just the ileum as far as I know. I've had three colonoscopies two of which showed Ileal Crohn's and one which showed no evidence of disease.

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10-24-2012, 07:19 PM   #69
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You have a point Gianni. I mean I do know that I am constantly hearing about drugs that were approved by the FDA and deemed safe, then a year later you find out a bunch of people are dying from taking the drug. It is pretty scary.
Yup because money talks. If you are old enough I'm sure you remember the drug vioxx and the FDA's refusal to take it off the market even after being linked to nearly 60,000 deaths. Eventually they did.

There have been many investigative journalists who have dug deep into the corruption of the FDA. A google search on FDA and corrupt yields thousands of results.
10-25-2012, 04:58 AM   #70
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Yup because money talks. If you are old enough I'm sure you remember the drug vioxx and the FDA's refusal to take it off the market even after being linked to nearly 60,000 deaths. Eventually they did.

There have been many investigative journalists who have dug deep into the corruption of the FDA. A google search on FDA and corrupt yields thousands of results.
The FDA certainly isn't perfect. Vioxx was withdrawn 8 years ago, and since then there have been a numerous other drugs removed from the market -- however, Avandia still remains available in the US but has been withdrawn in Europe.

What I don't like, is the commercials that you see on TV for prescription drugs. Before 1997, it used to be illegal for drug companies to advertise on TV. It was the FDA who changed the rules quietly, without congressional approval to allow this marketing. Before that rule change, the doctor decided what drug you needed, if any at all, after an examination in his/her office. What happens now is, people walk in to the doctor's office and demand Drug X but don't worry if that doctor doesn't prescribe it, their practice will suffer because the patient will go to a doctor who will. This puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the doctors to give out prescriptions unnecessarily. Apparently, it has also seemed to have backfired on Merck with Vioxx, but propelled Pfizer's stock to increase over 300% after Viagra was approved in 1998 and the fact that they were able to tell you about it on TV didn't hurt sales!

I am not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch of the imagination, but I understand the FDA is manipulated by the drug companies. That's something that doesn't require an advanced degree to sort out and I think most of us agree on this point.

The reason that I am responding to this particular post is because I am hoping to find an answer to a question that my wife and I have had for a very long time. We really want to know, from anyone reading this thread, why does the commercial for Cialis feature two separate "his" and "her" bathtubs? How does that work?
10-25-2012, 12:42 PM   #71
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Hey Woody,

I dont know, but when I see the commercials they scare the crap out of me. I mean they always end the commercial with telling you " serious reactions have happened when using the drug, such as tuberculosis, lymphoma, and in some cases, death. Please talk to your doctor if you experience any of these reaction". Ahh, really???? I especially like how they expect you to talk to your doctor if death was one of your experiences!

I myself find it that some doctors are the ones that kind of push the drugs, not really the other way around. At least not in my case. All the side effects scare me off really fast.

I still cannot figure out the two bathtubs in the cialis commercial though . You would think they would be in one tub together, hehehhe
10-25-2012, 01:17 PM   #72
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We really want to know, from anyone reading this thread, why does the commercial for Cialis feature two separate "his" and "her" bathtubs? How does that work?
Now bearing in mind that I have never seen the ad and had to google what the med was, I will hazard a guess...

An advertising guy trying to think like a woman and therefore thinking this is perfect foreplay and as a result the bloke in the ad is going to score.
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10-25-2012, 04:36 PM   #73
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I myself find it that some doctors are the ones that kind of push the drugs, not really the other way around. At least not in my case. All the side effects scare me off really fast.

I still cannot figure out the two bathtubs in the cialis commercial though . You would think they would be in one tub together, hehehhe
Ihurt,

Funny you should mention that because companies like IMS Heath buy prescription data from pharmacies all around the country/world and sell it back to the drug companies. Although when the data is sold to IMS from the pharmacy the patient specific data is not included, however, the doctor's name is and the prescribed drug is. So every drug rep knows exactly which doctors are prescribing their drugs and how frequently the prescriptions are getting filled. So if you want to know why antibiotics are so heavily prescribed or why Nexium and Nasonex are flying off pharmacy shelves, it's because the drug reps are visiting your doctor and pressuring him/her to write prescriptions. A drug rep can walk into Dr. Kilpatient's office and tell him exactly what he was prescribing, how many new prescriptions he wrote for that drug in a certain time frame and how many times those prescriptions were refilled. He can also see if that doctor was writing prescriptions for a competing drug instead and then pressure him to change to the one that he is selling even though it might be more expensive or offer no advantage over the other. They keep a very nice tally don't they? Keep mind that the drug reps salary is based on commission -- it can be very lucrative career to legally push drugs.

Besides all the pressure that the public gets from the TV commercials, if that doesn't work to increase sales because the advertisement didn't make sense, you don't have to worry because the doctor is going to push it anyway. That is why there are two tubs, after taking so much Cialis the couple is worn out after too much sex and needs a break so they go in their individual tubs to relax after rolling around on the beach!
10-25-2012, 04:55 PM   #74
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Ha ha , that is hilarious!

But yeah, you are right. I do always see those reps in the doctors office giving away free samples of drugs to the doctor. There have been times when I have seen like three different drug reps in my doctors office within the hour pushing different drugs.

I remember a few years back I use to see this one doctor and I am not kidding you, I went to see him for back pain and he gave me a script for nexium!! I was like " umm, I dont have heartburn, my back hurts"! Do you think the doctors get a kcikback everytime they prescribe a drug?? I just think it is nuts.. I know when my son was little ( he has asthma), well when I would bring him to the doctor, they would always want to give him antibitoics, even when he just had a cold. I would Not give them to him unless he really started having an issue, like fever or something like that. But yes, you are right, doctors do push certain meds a bit too much and unnessasarily a lot of the time..












Ihurt,
. That is why there are two tubs, after taking so much Cialis the couple is worn out after too much sex and needs a break so they go in their individual tubs to relax after rolling around on the beach!
10-25-2012, 05:49 PM   #75
Gianni
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We really want to know, from anyone reading this thread, why does the commercial for Cialis feature two separate "his" and "her" bathtubs? How does that work?
I personally haven't seen the ad but I would guess it's part of the FCC's regulations. Just how beer commercials can never show a person drinking beer, I bet that an E.D. drug can never show such intimacy during the commercial. Maybe they can roll around in sand but sharing a bathtub might be crossing the inappropriate line for commercial television especially if it is during family viewing hours (I.e. before 10pm).

Gianni
10-25-2012, 11:52 PM   #76
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Ha ha , that is hilarious!

But yeah, you are right. I do always see those reps in the doctors office giving away free samples of drugs to the doctor. There have been times when I have seen like three different drug reps in my doctors office within the hour pushing different drugs.

I remember a few years back I use to see this one doctor and I am not kidding you, I went to see him for back pain and he gave me a script for nexium!! I was like " umm, I dont have heartburn, my back hurts"! Do you think the doctors get a kcikback everytime they prescribe a drug?? I just think it is nuts.. I know when my son was little ( he has asthma), well when I would bring him to the doctor, they would always want to give him antibitoics, even when he just had a cold. I would Not give them to him unless he really started having an issue, like fever or something like that. But yes, you are right, doctors do push certain meds a bit too much and unnessasarily a lot of the time..
Ihurt,

Not too long ago the drug companies would entice doctors to prescribe their drugs by rewarding them in one way or another but would barely try to make it look legit.

I cut and pasted the requirements for physicians to maintain their license in the next paragraph so you can see the relevance.

Continuing Medical Education (CME) credit hours are required for all licensed medical doctors. Licensed health professionals must earn continuing education units (CEU), but medical doctor specific units, are called CME. The number and type of CME credit hours are defined by the states. Coursework must be approved by the Accreditation Council for Continuing Medical Education (ACCME) as defined by the American Medical Association (AMA). Coursework is divided into two categories. These categories are Category 1 (formal classes with post-test evaluation) and Category 2 (self directed learning).

For example, in Pennsylvania the State Board of Medicine requires medical doctors to complete a total of 100 CME credit hours every two years. A minimum of 20 CMEs must be chosen from Category 1 credit hour options. Twelve (12) CME credit hours must cover Risk Management, or Patient safety. Coursework may fall into Category 1 or Category 2 guidelines. The balance of required CMEs may be covered in Category 2 activities. So you can see that Category 1 CME are not only time consuming, but a pain in the ass to get because you had to study and pass a test. Who wants to do that?

In the past, a drug company might help a doctor fulfill this requirement by sponsoring an event for CME that would give the doctor 20 or more hours of Category 1 credit while on a 1 or 2 week cruise on a private yacht/cruise-liner owned or rented by the drug company. In order to receive credit, the doctor might have to attend a 2 hour lecture at the end of each day, while eating a gourmet dinner served with the most expensive wine and you can bet the doctor giving the lecture had a glass in his hand while he was giving the lecture as well. On the other hand, they might have had the option of attending a lecture during breakfast as they prepared for a day of fishing for Marlin. One thing that is certain, the CME lectures focused on the drugs that the sponsoring drug company was promoting at the time and the doctors got credit to maintain licenses to practice from them.

The kickbacks are still there for sure -- however, they have been toned down a bit in recent years for a number of reasons, partly to save face before increasing public pressure would be force to act FDA to intervene. [The FDA regulates the drug companies but you can see that in the end, itís the drug companies who pull the strings]

Now, the drug companies arenít allowed to sponsor and CME events, they all even stopped giving out free goodies. They used to give out all kinds of good free stuff like pens, clocks, Phillies tickets, you name it they had their name on itÖ But donít worry they still have a good grip on the doctors and the other people prescribing their medications. If your doctor gives out lots of samples, you can bet that the drug rep is rewarding him/her for writing prescriptions for drugs made by that drug company. Kind of like a crack dealer that gives you a free sample every once in a while so you use his stuff and not someone elseís. Even the grocery store pharmacies give you free antibiotics to lure you in to their store and itís all legal. 85%-90% of the time, upper respiratory infections are caused by a virus and antibiotics are not indicated. However, if the doctor has a coupon from the drug company for a very expensive antibiotic to give to you that will eliminate your co-pay you will take it to the pharmacy, not pay a cent, the pharmacy will make money, the drug company will make money, and you will get a drug that you donít need. The worst part about that is that it might cause you harm, but donít worry it was free to you after all so it doesnít matter.
10-25-2012, 11:59 PM   #77
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I personally haven't seen the ad but I would guess it's part of the FCC's regulations. Just how beer commercials can never show a person drinking beer, I bet that an E.D. drug can never show such intimacy during the commercial. Maybe they can roll around in sand but sharing a bathtub might be crossing the inappropriate line for commercial television especially if it is during family viewing hours (I.e. before 10pm).

Gianni
Gianni, are you suggesting that they should start making X-rated commercials?

Don't forget that 10pm on the West Coast is much different on the East Coast, the networks might encounter some problems, maybe they should get Howard Stern to promote these drugs instead of a bathtub.
10-26-2012, 12:02 AM   #78
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Don't forget that 10pm on the West Coast is much different on the East Coast, the networks might encounter some problems, maybe they should get Howard Stern to promote these drugs instead of a bathtub.
Of course but you won't see all the same commercials I see if we are both watching monday night football. Often commercials differ based on region/timezone.

Additional programming will occur at 10pm on west coast and east coast... For example if you were watching uhhh (don't watch much tv)... two and a half men each thursday, it will show after 10pm on east coast, and again on the west coast.
10-26-2012, 12:59 AM   #79
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Of course but you won't see all the same commercials I see if we are both watching monday night football. Often commercials differ based on region/timezone.

Additional programming will occur at 10pm on west coast and east coast... For example if you were watching uhhh (don't watch much tv)... two and a half men each thursday, it will show after 10pm on east coast, and again on the west coast.
When I watch TV, I usually watch the History Channel and since according to my wife, I am about as big as two and a half men, my wife forbids be to watch the Cialis commercials so I don't know what's going on that late except what ever she wants...
10-26-2012, 01:05 AM   #80
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I feel like the history channel has been saturated with a bunch of alien encounter shows recently D:
10-26-2012, 01:06 AM   #81
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I feel like the history channel has been saturated with a bunch of alien encounter shows recently D:
Need to make a series on the History of IBD!!!!
10-26-2012, 01:07 AM   #82
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Need to make a series on the History of IBD!!!!
let's make one!
10-26-2012, 01:11 AM   #83
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Who's gonna offer up the first video chronicling their first colonoscopy?
10-26-2012, 01:13 AM   #84
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a more important question is would they censor the whole procedure?
10-26-2012, 01:14 AM   #85
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hmm, not if it was John Madden during half time on Monday Night Football!
10-26-2012, 01:16 AM   #86
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lol
10-26-2012, 01:16 AM   #87
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Of course the browns would need to be playing
10-26-2012, 01:18 AM   #88
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Seriously, there needs to be a medical history channel
10-26-2012, 01:19 AM   #89
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Of course the browns would need to be playing
OMG! that was wrong on so many levels!
10-26-2012, 04:12 PM   #90
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Just the ileum as far as I know. I've had three colonoscopies two of which showed Ileal Crohn's and one which showed no evidence of disease.

Gianni

im asking this to try to perhaps explain why you are doing so well consuming juices, assuming you actually drink some of the recipes you have shared on other posts which at least include apples, carrots and sweet potatoes.

i believe someone with a greater small intestinal involvement may not do so well on a juice blend made with these, because most of the digestive process happens in the small intestine, these sugars would cause more diarhea, and the mucus would impair digestion. for instance i have more small intestinal involvement, something like apples that contains perhaps only 2-5 grams of sucrose would lead to diarhea in 1-3 days.

im glad you are doing so well on your regimin, but take note, do not overgeneralize and assume just because we all have a general label of crohns or UC, that what you do will apply to the next person simply because of the general crohns label, there are more specificitys and ranges of the crohns/ibd condition.

im sure what im saying has likely occured to you already, but it didnt seem like you communicated it that well, or i failed to read it somewhere in your posts. but i dont want to discourage you from giving advice that could help someone.

Last edited by wildbill_52280; 10-26-2012 at 05:29 PM.
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