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Crohn's Disease Forum » Diet, Fitness, and Supplements » SCD and Paleo Diets » My journey with the Specific Carbohydrate Diet.


 
04-01-2013, 04:47 PM   #301
Ya noy
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I've been losing too much weight as well, and I don't even have a digestive disorder and it's not a question of calories or funds either. I think I just haven't been eating enough carbs to fully digest all the proteins and fats. Not really sure to be honest, but I've even been drinking coconut milk at 550 calories per glass, and still losing weight.

It's more important right now to keep your energy levels up for school, so I don't blame you. hopefully you'll be able to find a happy medium.

best of luck!
04-01-2013, 05:21 PM   #302
Beach
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No reason to feel disappointed with pulling back, in my opinion. The diet along with medication is a tool to help improve our IBD conditions. With the knowledge that you have gained over this time eating this way, you now have a good idea of what to do if your Crohn's should flare back up.

With your time constraints from school this might not work for you now, but in the future thought to mention - it's hard for me to believe, but around 3 years ago I weighed close to the same as you do today. Same as you, I didn't like it a bit.

This afternoon I weigh 192lbs @ around 10% body fat. What made the difference for me was weight lifting twice, sometimes three times a week for around 45 minutes a session. Eating cleanly, along with taking vitamin D I suspect too, helped a great deal.

Best of luck in the future! Hope your health continues to improve, and you have a chance to take up lifting to pack away some muscle weight.

Last edited by Beach; 04-01-2013 at 07:18 PM.
04-01-2013, 07:01 PM   #303
hugh
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Simply put I cannot get enough calories and don't have enough money to try too. So what I've decided is to stick mostly to SCD but I will also be eating some foods that are not legal such as potatoes, rice, some pasta (but not pasta sauce) and other foods that aren't super unhealthy but also provide needed calories at a lower price.
I understand your dilemma and wish you well

I would recommend only adding them one at a time so you can see what happens (four weeks would be ideal but not very practical ),

paleo carbs....
http://balancedbites.com/2011/08/paleo-diet-carbs.html

I find rice to be OK but wheat is a disaster.
Personally potato gives me weird symptoms but sweet potato is fine.

All paleo carbs (like tubers) should be fine, and White Rice.
Then try gluten free oats then another.....

You might want to check out paleo based diets like "archevore" or "perfect health diet", they allow some grains (depending on whose version it is) but ALL recommend avoiding gluten)

See if that is enough to reverse the situation before you eat wheat, and if you do eat wheat see if you can afford spelt rather than short dwarf poison wheat.

I would definitely recommend this for a while so you can see if more carbs do make a difference, as it may be that you are just not adsorbing enough of what you eat which might (and i only say might) indicate that you are consuming something that is not helpful (i improved on SCD up to a point but it was only after i gave up yogurt that i gained weight and completely stopped the D)
I might be weird, but i only gained weight after i went from SCD to Paleo, and it wasn't the increase in carbs, it was the dairy....
Test your theory, but remember it might not be that.

best of luck

-and i think beach is right, some weight training may help on many levels, Maybe check out 'Convict Conditioning', fairly simple bodyweight exercises, the book is a bit padded but the exercises are simple and start at a very easy level. Cheaper than weights or Gym membership
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04-01-2013, 07:51 PM   #304
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Don't beat yourself up about it man, you've done well and I bet you've healed a whole bunch on the inside, i think if you can do 80% you'll still do well, what I try do is have days where I allow non SCD items and on the days I have motivation I'll stick to it 100% I think the problem is with junk food and really processed stuff, if you can stay off that you should be good, either way it's better than eating whatever you want. Let us know how you go
04-02-2013, 10:27 AM   #305
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I've been doing the SCD diet about 80% of the time and have been doing just fine. I try to go the whole week 100% but when the weekends get here watch out lol. I think you will be fine as long as you don't go overboard with eating anything. Sometimes I go overboard and have a little D and gas but that usually clears right up as soon as I go back to eating SCD. You still continue to be an inspiration and a big help to us all so just keep doing what you've been doing.
04-02-2013, 09:22 PM   #306
Charleigh
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We've already talked about this via pm's but I will repeat here just in case someone else references. You know that I support you. I completely agree with Hugh though on introducing slowly. Have you seen rice pasta? I actually prefer it to wheat pasta Maybe you could just keep dairy and gluten (the big offenders) out of your diet for a few months and see how you feel? It might be that a dairy and gluten free diet will be sufficient and that is far easier to keep than the SCD.

Buy almond milk, it is yummy. The regular, not the unsweetened. It is great for smoothies and cooking and it will cut your time.

As far as startch/grain I would introduce in this order
one at a time and slowly

Potatoes
Rice
Corn
Oats
True Sourdough bread (the kind that has no yeast but has been fermented, the process eats up most of the gluten and acids that bother most people)
Wheat
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04-02-2013, 09:53 PM   #307
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I for one am totally impressed with you and your progress! Hats off, look at what you have done! You have accomplished so much! Thank you! Sue
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04-03-2013, 05:00 PM   #308
Ya noy
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True Sourdough bread (the kind that has no yeast but has been fermented, the process eats up most of the gluten and acids that bother most people)
Wheat
This seems to be true, because for the time being, my husband's doctor wants him to stick to white flour, so he made a sourdough starter rather than use yeast for bread baking, and even his daughter, who has a problem with gluten, has no problem with his sourdough bread, even thugh it's made with regular wheat (organic, unbleached and unbromated.).

The bread made with sourdough starter is also incredibly delicious
04-03-2013, 05:45 PM   #309
Charleigh
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This seems to be true, because for the time being, my husband's doctor wants him to stick to white flour, so he made a sourdough starter rather than use yeast for bread baking, and even his daughter, who has a problem with gluten, has no problem with his sourdough bread, even thugh it's made with regular wheat (organic, unbleached and unbromated.).

The bread made with sourdough starter is also incredibly delicious
It doesn't surprise me that your husband and his daughter are fine with it. There is a whole book written on the science behind it and how traditional breads were made using a natural fermentation process (rather than with instant yeast). There is a theory that this might be what has caused so many gluten intolerances, etc. They key is to make sure it is authentic. Some brands use a quick rise yeast method and throw in some flavoring or a tiny bit of sourdough batter and call it sourdough.
04-03-2013, 10:38 PM   #310
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There is a whole book written on the science behind it and how traditional breads were made using a natural fermentation process (rather than with instant yeast). There is a theory that this might be what has caused so many gluten intolerances, etc. They key is to make sure it is authentic.
Hi, I'm a long time lurker here on this thread and site. I was wondering what the name of the book you mentioned above is?

Over the last 6 weeks, at my wife's urging, I went through the Whole 30 paleo diet and eliminated grains and essentially most carbs as a result. Had great result with reduced joint pain (psoriatic arthritis) and GI issues have almost disappeared with the exception of some uproariously fun constipation issues around week 2 and 3. This isn't the SCD diet and since Easter I have tried adding sugar and some wheat back in an exclusionary fashion. What seems to affect me most is the wheat, or more specifically, the gluten. When I have tried gluten free items, which involve other grains that are supposed to be less irritating, they are less irritating. Perhaps over time they too would irritate but I think I will try and stay away from grains in general for the most part. I can see an 80/20 or 90/10 paleo lifestyle in my future. The benefits are worth it.

Point of this un-lurking above is to say thank you to all involved in this thread. It has been helpful in my decision making and my understanding of why food does what it does and why it affects people differently. It would serve a purpose to keep it going.

Cheers,

Matt.
04-03-2013, 11:55 PM   #311
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I'm fortunate. We have two young men locally who make delicious certified organic sourdough bread:

"Zeally Bay Sourdough is a wholefood bakery based in Torquay turning out a range of certified organic sourdough breads. We are the first artisan sourdough bakery in Victoria to offer a fully certified range of genuine, quality, handcrafted loaves.

Our sourdoughs are made in the traditional time honoured way and do not contain any added malts, gluten, commercial yeast or mould inhibitors.

Made slowly using a unique blend of organic flours, filtered water, the 30 year old family leaven and natural sea salt, our delicious crusty robust breads have a complex aroma, a well baked appearance and a chewy satisfying texture."

It is now being stocked by some delis in Melbourne and is well worth looking for.
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04-04-2013, 02:51 AM   #312
Ya noy
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It doesn't surprise me that your husband and his daughter are fine with it. There is a whole book written on the science behind it and how traditional breads were made using a natural fermentation process (rather than with instant yeast). There is a theory that this might be what has caused so many gluten intolerances, etc. They key is to make sure it is authentic. Some brands use a quick rise yeast method and throw in some flavoring or a tiny bit of sourdough batter and call it sourdough.

True sourdough starter is nothing more than flour and water, which then ferments by using wild yeasts captured from the air--leaving it out on the counter, covered with cheesecloth. To get it going, you have to keep discarding about half, and feeding the rest, by adding more flour and water, and keep doing it for about a weekor so, until it's all bubbly and yeasty smelling.

Took my husband a couple tries to get it going, but the resulting bread is heavenly.
04-05-2013, 04:38 PM   #313
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So am I understanding that if sourdough bread is made with a fermentation process then it's ok to have on the SCD diet?
04-05-2013, 04:59 PM   #314
Beach
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I don't believe that would be the case about modern sourdough bread. Sourdough wouldn't be SCD legal - at least it isn't GAPs legal which is largely based up the SCD diet.

Some of our ancestors did eat fermented foods, grains, and were healthy. From what I've seen the works of dental researcher Weston Price is often mentioned in this regard. Price traveled the world in the 1930s, and found societies that ate grains, and were healthy, tended to highly process their breads looking to remove anti nutrients.

Sourdough bread is probably the closest to what we have today to what our ancestors ate.

Dr. Guyenet has written some about the grains our ancestors ate successfully. One of his pieces.

"How to Eat Grains"

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...at-grains.html
04-05-2013, 08:46 PM   #315
hugh
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So am I understanding that if sourdough bread is made with a fermentation process then it's ok to have on the SCD diet?
Any breads will never be SCD legal, or paleo, or Gaps.

It is 'better' than 'regular' bread (much much better). - providing that it is a real sourdough, rather than a normal bread with a bit of sourdough added.

Sourdough 'yeast is a mixture of wild yeast and bacteria (particularly lactobacillus)
The fermentation process breaks down much more of the gluten, and begin the breakdown of the complex carbs,

But there are other issues.
Sourdough fermentation has been shown
-to decrease phytic acid (more so than commercial yeast) and subsequently increase bio-availability of nutrients. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12781853
- to have a lower GI, making it a better choice for diabetics,
- to contain more lactic acid from the lactobacilus, supporting intestinal health

Traditionally, bread would have been made from a very different wheat. [1], grown without pesticides [2], ground on a stone mill [3], fermented for a longer period with a wild strain of yeast/bacteria

modern 'bread' may contain.....
Chemicals likely to be found in conventional breads include: lecithin, mono- and di- glycerides, carragheenan, calcium sulfate, calcium carbonate, dicalcium sulfate, ammonium chloride, potassium bromate, calcium bromate, potassium iodate, calcium peroxide, azodicarbonamide, tricalcium phosphate, monocalcium phosphate, calcium propionate, sodium propionate, sodium diacetate, lactic acid, calcium stearoyl-2-lactylate, lactylic stearate, sodium stearyl fumarate, succinylated monoglycerides, ethoxylated mono- and all-glycerides
http://www.soilandhealth.org/06clipf...-%20ground.htm

Ideally, in a perfect world, etc. etc......
your best bet is to buy an expensive 'artisan' sourdough from someone you trust or make it yourself....
or get carbs from rice and tubers


[1]-ancient wheats had much higher levels of selenium,
-and the short dwarf developed in the sixties has less minerals AND they are less available
-short dwarf wheat gluten is predominately a gluten peptide known as glia-α9 - the most reactive “CD (celiac disease) epitope and one found in much lower levels in older wheat varieties.
[2] check out 'desiccation', the practice of spraying a crop just before harvest to get a uniform seed moisture content (and maximise pesticide residue)
[3] modern milling can and does lead to lower levels of potassium and phosphorus, the bran and germ are totally removed, the flour is heated to a point that increases rancidity, and only about 20-30% of vitamins are retained. For approximately 20 nutrients, there is an average loss of 70-80% of in refined and enriched flour. Chemical oxidising agents and bleaches are used to improve the characteristics.
[4]
04-05-2013, 11:23 PM   #316
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Sour dough bread is easy to make but takes time. Here is one set of instructions for making starter with some pictures of what it looks like at different stages, which can be helpful if you've not done before http://www.thekitchn.com/recipe-basi...-starter-47337

Timings do vary based on how temperature, my kitchen is impossible to keep cool, so my starters mature faster than the timings mentioned.

Having tracked down organic spelt flour, today I'm baking my first batch of sour dough bread using it. I'd really like to try einkhorn flour as I've read good things about, but spelt was the only old wheat flour that I could find here.

So the kid will have healthyish bread for his school lunches this week. The recipe makes 5 loaves of bread so I'm planning to freeze a couple of loaves so will do his lunches for the whole week. I know breads not as nice when it's been frozen but my impression is it doesn't impact nutritional value.

I've dismissed the idea of SCD & Paleo diets as impossible for us, as I thought bread was not an option at all. My 10 year old loves his bread and I've not found any alternatives to sandwiches for school lunches that he'll actually eat. So interesting to see this discussion of people eating some breads while on these diets.
04-06-2013, 09:11 AM   #317
Charleigh
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So am I understanding that if sourdough bread is made with a fermentation process then it's ok to have on the SCD diet?
No, sourdough bread is not ok on SCD. Not at all. No wheat or gluten are allowed. What I was saying is that technically the SCD is supposed to be followed to allow the body to heal and restore bacterial balance, etc and the author says that it should be followed strictly for at least 1-2 years (she suggests at least 1 year after the last symptoms leaves). Then, some people find that they can tolerate particular foods like potatoes, rice, etc. I would think a paleo style diet would be best BUT some find they can tolerate a true, aged/fermented sourdough bread. Keep in mind, this is not easy to find. Your typical loaf of "sourdough" bread at the local grocer is not actually traditional sourdough. I am not sure if we will ever try wheat with E but if we do it will be only in that form and not for a long time.
04-06-2013, 09:22 AM   #318
Charleigh
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Hi, I'm a long time lurker here on this thread and site. I was wondering what the name of the book you mentioned above is?

Over the last 6 weeks, at my wife's urging, I went through the Whole 30 paleo diet and eliminated grains and essentially most carbs as a result. Had great result with reduced joint pain (psoriatic arthritis) and GI issues have almost disappeared with the exception of some uproariously fun constipation issues around week 2 and 3. This isn't the SCD diet and since Easter I have tried adding sugar and some wheat back in an exclusionary fashion. What seems to affect me most is the wheat, or more specifically, the gluten. When I have tried gluten free items, which involve other grains that are supposed to be less irritating, they are less irritating. Perhaps over time they too would irritate but I think I will try and stay away from grains in general for the most part. I can see an 80/20 or 90/10 paleo lifestyle in my future. The benefits are worth it.

Point of this un-lurking above is to say thank you to all involved in this thread. It has been helpful in my decision making and my understanding of why food does what it does and why it affects people differently. It would serve a purpose to keep it going.

Cheers,

Matt.
Welcome, Matt, and thank you for unlurking

I love Whole 30. I have Hashimoto's and Whole 30 has changed my life. It is why I went on a research frenzy for diets when my son was diagnosed with Crohn's. SCD and Whole 30 are very similar.
I totally know what you mean about grains. I have inflammatory problems myself and staying away from all grains makes a huge difference in how I feel. When I tried to add in rice, etc I felt bad I think if you stay on the whole 30 and then slowly add in other foods, you will learn what you can and cannot tolerate. I do believe with IBD that it doesn't always show up immediately. What you start eating today may not begin to cause problems for a month (as the irritation and bowel issues compound). For me, I am fine with potatoes and very limited amounts of sugar but rice, corn, wheat, dairy, etc just aren't worth it for me. I look at the way I eat as a lifestyle and you really do get so accustomed to it that you don't miss the stuff you used to love and, believe it or not, it just isn't difficult. It becomes just a part of who you are

I think the diet is completely worth it. For what it is worth, my son E is only 11 and he thinks it is totally worth it.
04-06-2013, 09:27 AM   #319
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Any breads will never be SCD legal, or paleo, or Gaps.

It is 'better' than 'regular' bread (much much better). - providing that it is a real sourdough, rather than a normal bread with a bit of sourdough added.
.................................................. .................................................. ........................................

[4]

And this is why I adore Hugh Everything I was thinking but he is so much better with words!
04-06-2013, 09:35 AM   #320
Charleigh
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Okay, one more post and then I will stop before Kyle fires me, lol.

I know that bread is a hang up for many people. But, seriously, you get over bread. I was an avid bread maker before we switched our family to a paleo diet. I never could have imagined life with 4 kids and no sandwiches. As difficult as that is to envision, you really do get over it....you move on and you find a new normal and it isn't a big deal.
04-26-2013, 11:42 AM   #321
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Sadly, one of my son's favorite foods in the world are my homemade biscuits, but he'll let them go, if it means keeping his intestines. No contest!

I recently bought the SCD vitamins - calcium with D combo and the multi, am i missing anything? I'm pretty nervous about starting this with my son...esp since he's determined to stay vegetarian.
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04-28-2013, 08:08 PM   #322
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Sadly, one of my son's favorite foods in the world are my homemade biscuits, but he'll let them go, if it means keeping his intestines. No contest!

I recently bought the SCD vitamins - calcium with D combo and the multi, am i missing anything? I'm pretty nervous about starting this with my son...esp since he's determined to stay vegetarian.
We use a SCD safe Acidophilus instead of yogurt since we do not use any dairy at all. This is where I vary from true SCD, I eliminated all dairy. I did attempt to add cheese back in and E did not do that great with it.
04-29-2013, 03:22 PM   #323
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Okay, one more post and then I will stop before Kyle fires me, lol.

I know that bread is a hang up for many people. But, seriously, you get over bread. I was an avid bread maker before we switched our family to a paleo diet. I never could have imagined life with 4 kids and no sandwiches. As difficult as that is to envision, you really do get over it....you move on and you find a new normal and it isn't a big deal.
LOL Fired? No way! You're pretty much the SCD goddess. I appreciate all your help within this thread.

Now that I have altered the diet a bit, I've been considering adding yogurt to get the cultures as well and have been trying to choose between acidophilus and yogurt.


And I'm sure you guys have been wondering how much I've been sticking to the diet and what changes I've made, and the only things I've pretty much only added potatoes/rice (which are paleo anyways), and (please don't hate me) pasta noodles. I still use SCD legal dressings/sauces but I decided to add the pasta noodles for the calories, low cost, and easiness. Other than that, there's nothing significant I can think of that I added.

I take the psyllium now which would be illegal because of the high fiber, but it helps maintain my BMs.
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04-29-2013, 06:55 PM   #324
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We have added potatoes.

E does great with the acidophilus but he doesn't do so great with milk proteins so we have to skip the yogurt. You can always try it though

Glad you posted
06-16-2014, 06:15 AM   #325
Ormolu
 
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I see that you made a drink using Pineapple and Mango.

Be carefu with the Pineapple. I found out that it ic NOT correctly listed.
It contains 9.8% Sucrose, which should make it highly illegal.
06-19-2014, 12:08 PM   #326
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AAwesome record of your journey, congrats. I have been on a mostly SCD for a few years now, when I am healthy enough to keep it together....and I would stop with the conventional pasta if I were you, try a rice pasta (i will sometimes eat the quinoa/corn stuff, which is tasty and illegal but better than wheat/gluten). I eat a lot of goat milk yogurt and it shores up my calorie intake and I feel keeps me functional. I also highly recommend coconut water/oil, aloe, tumeric and any other natural antiinflamatories that you can tolerate. Teas made from slippery elm bark and marshmallow also highly effective.

When I have it together and do not undereat and cheat like I have been lately, the SCD has allowed me to stay off of humira for the last three years. I have been thinking of going back to it, but I really believe a combination of diet, supplements and excersize can make us healthy...of course that being said, I have been struggling the last few years(was diagnosed 2007 at 27, after years of distress and was on Humira till 2010). I have been dealing with some recurring perianal abscesses that have left me with bad depression and led me to bad habits, but I know that if I could stick to my diet and care regement, I would be hunky dory. The abscesses first formed while on humira due to i believe a bad fall on pavement that caused burst glands and initially healed, but a couple minor surgeries later and ifeel they might never heal right and have recently become fiusae. (sorry to stray off topic, but thought i would mention why i have a hard time maintaining the diet, tho i do believe in it's potential to heal us, barring other complications).

Keep up the good work, please try some goat milk yogurt and stay away from the gluten. Itake solice in knowing we can beat this thing if we stay vigilent.

All the best,
Andrew

Last edited by Oregon Gaffer; 06-19-2014 at 12:18 PM. Reason: Mistype
06-19-2014, 07:45 PM   #327
Poppysocks
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What I've noticed, so far...

I am not doing SCD,

my diet consists of steak (specifically ny strip and sirloin), LOTS of canned spinach, and LOTS of canned green beans. I also eat out at cracker barrell quite often and order there grilled sirloin/grilled chicken with all green beans. I also cook grilled chicken and pork on the stovetop in canola oil. Literally just salt and pepper both sides then throw them in my stainless steel skillet.

I haven't had any pain while eating like this. None, nada, zilch. I wake up feeling more refreshed and can get through the day quite easily without coffee or any type of supplementation. And my appetite is voracious.

Those are symptoms that immediately improved.

Symptoms that I continue to have are urgency, unformed BM's, inability to put on weight, and going too frequently (probably 5-6 times a day).

But I would say since I started eating like this 2 months ago the aforementioned symptoms have slowly gotten better.

I just think I have had so much inflammation over the years it won't go away overnight no matter what I eat, which is also the reason I'm so hungry all the time because I still have inflammation and why I can't put on weight. I can literally eat over 2 pounds of steak in a single sitting. I just don't absorb much of it I think.

If I play doctor with myself I'd guess it's going to take at least a year for these symptoms to correct themselves.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack thread, just giving everyone my experience with a semi-SCD related diet (although technically way more strict and extreme than SCD).

But extreme conditions cause for extreme solutions. I'll do whatever it takes to get off of medication I don't care.
06-19-2014, 08:41 PM   #328
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Just reading through here. We just moved and I'm looking forward to settling in and getting control over my diet after the last six months of upheaval and stress with little control over my diet!
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