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12-03-2008, 06:39 PM   #1
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Crohn's news article

My mom's neighbor just sent this to her, and she sent it to me.
It's from Daily Health News
I see a few things that don't sound quite right, but you can judge for yourself.

7 Steps to Controlling Crohn's Disease

For people with digestive issues, life tends to revolve around what you can and can't eat and how far away from the nearest bathroom you dare to venture. That's certainly the case with Crohn's disease, which along with ulcerative colitis is one of the two most common forms of inflammatory bowel disease. Symptoms include wrenching stomach pain soon after eating (typically in the lower right side) and relentless diarrhea. It's relatively rare, but a new research finding suggests that people with Crohn's are seven times more apt to carry bacteria that cause a related gastrointestinal disease in cattle. The bacteria -- Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis or MAP -- has been found in milk in American supermarkets, and some studies have found it in meat and cheese, raising the possibility that it may be passed up the food chain to people.

IT'S GUT WRENCHING

Whether or not bacteria such as MAP cause disease in the intestinal tract is largely a matter of threshold, explains Daily Health News contributing editor Andrew L. Rubman, ND. A person with a healthy, intact digestive tract will likely be able to resist infectious bacteria. But the large intestine is the body's center of immunity, and when the digestive tissue becomes damaged and inflamed, it becomes more susceptible to invasive microorganisms, be it MAP or the increasingly infectious species of E. coli, Salmonella, and other causes of food poisoning. If the balance of healthy versus harmful bacteria is disrupted and/or tissue is damaged, people become less able to resist disease and it becomes more difficult to treat. Dr. Rubman and I talked more about Crohn's disease in general, and about natural support for people with this problem.

Little is known about the causes of Crohn's disease, although family history, an overactive immune system and inflammation response, and environmental triggers are all believed to play a role. It differs from ulcerative colitis (which causes similar symptoms) because inflammation is deeper in the intestinal wall and also potentially affects the entire gastrointestinal tract from mouth to anus. Ulcerative colitis primarily affects the colon and small intestine. There's no known cure for Crohn's and remedies offered by conventional medicine are riddled with problems. In September 2008, the FDA ordered stronger warnings for common Crohn's drugs -- infliximab (Remicade), adalimumab (Humira) and certolizumab pegol (Cimzia) -- after an association with the risk of developing fungal and yeast infections such as Candidiasis was found. Because conventional treatments have significant side effects -- even when they work, and they don't always -- more than half of people with Crohn's disease turn to natural therapies.

NATURAL SOLUTIONS

Since Crohn's disease affects different people in different ways, Dr. Rubman individualizes treatment for each patient, working in collaboration with his/her gastroenterologist -- a strategy he suggests for all Crohn's patients since a combination of natural and mainstream treatments seems to be most effective.

Dr. Rubman's natural solutions include...

Probiotics. Health requires maintaining a balance between good and bad bacteria in the digestive tract. Poor diet, stress or a digestive disorder such as Crohn's can result in a takeover of the system by "bad" bacteria, resulting in symptoms such as diarrhea and gas. To restore a proper floral balance, Dr. Rubman frequently prescribes a seven- to 10-day course of a probiotic supplement composed of Lactobacillus acidophilus and Bifidobacterium bifidus. However, he notes that it is important to have a stool test before treatment, in order to ensure the proper probiotic formula is administered.

Fish oil. A small British study found that fish oil taken with antioxidants may help reduce the inflammation associated with Crohn's disease. Eat fatty fish such as salmon, mackerel or sardines two or three times a week. In addition, Dr. Rubman often prescribes one or more grams of an EPA-DHA fish oil capsule or liquid daily.

Vitamin B-12. When the bowel has been damaged by Crohn's disease, it may no longer effectively absorb B-12. If you are tired and rundown, ask your doctor to test you. Dr. Rubman prefers to prescribe sublingual B-12 rather than B-12 shots. "It's as effective, less expensive and certainly more comfortable," he notes.

Acupuncture. Acupuncture has traditionally been used to treat inflammatory bowel disease in China and is meeting with increasing mainstream acceptance in the US. A small German study suggests that acupuncture may help improve quality of life and general well-being in people with Crohn's disease by modulating symptoms and may even result in a small decrease in inflammatory markers in the blood. Find an acupuncturist in your area at the Web site of the American Association of Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine at http://www.aaaomonline.org/45000.asp.

Focus on whole foods, fresh fruits and vegetables. A diet that contains lots of processed and fast foods -- like white bread, sugary desserts, etc. -- stresses the bowel and may trigger inflammation and worsen symptoms of Crohn's disease. Disease-causing microorganisms thrive on foods like these. Many people with Crohn's report that they feel better when they eliminate or significantly cut back on processed foods and place a greater emphasis on whole foods, fresh fruits and vegetables and moderate amounts of protein. Avoid milk and dairy products as well as trans fats, as they can also irritate the intestinal track.

Decompress. Many people with Crohn's find that their symptoms worsen during stressful periods. If you find this to be the case, take steps to effectively manage stress. Do whatever works best for you -- whether that is yoga or meditation or dancing or tennis.

Stay away from colonics. Many people are tempted to turn to this "quick fix," but Dr. Rubman warns that colonics can backfire and worsen symptoms. The large intestine requires a healthy balance of microorganisms to function properly, and colonics indiscriminately wipe out the good with the bad under the thinly supported premise of detoxification.

To feel more in control of your disease and your life, learn more about Crohn's and connect with others who are going through the same things you are. Join message boards, chats, blogs and support groups (online or offline) at Web sites such as www.ccfa.org, or those listed at http://www.crohns-disease-and-stress.com/support.html and http://ibdcrohns.about.com/od/online...portgroups.htm.

Acknowledging that a diagnosis of Crohn's disease is never good news, Dr. Rubman urges those who have the problem to be optimistic -- it can often be controlled without drastic drugs or a draconian diet, and quality of life need not suffer.

Source(s):

Andrew L. Rubman, ND, director, Southbury Clinic for Traditional Medicines, Southbury, Connecticut.

American Society for Microbiology, http://www.asm.org/
12-03-2008, 06:59 PM   #2
sh!+_stains
 
Interesting article thanks for posting. While i agree with most of the treatment recommendations, the doctor comes very close to inferring that MAP is merely a secondary invader of already inflamed tissues. Problem with such an inference is that one, MAP is a recognized pathogen with a proven ability to cause disease of a range of histophathological types in a variety of species including sub-human primates and so biological plausibility favours it being pathogenic in humans and two, MAP is not found in the same proportion of people suffering from other conditions that involve inflammation of the intestines.
12-03-2008, 07:25 PM   #3
MINI Cooper
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No mention how it is an auto-immune disease either. It seems pretty
focused on the bacterial element only. being an immune system thing, the
bacteria will be attacked in the gut, whether its good or bad bacteria. So probiotics
certainly are no cure.
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12-03-2008, 07:51 PM   #4
sh!+_stains
 
It is not an autoimmune disease. This has been established and accepted by doctors who follow the research.

Extract from the ASM report which was a source of the news article:
"For decades, CD was considered an autoimmune disease, where the immune
system erroneously identifies tissues of the gastrointestinal tract, specifically the
large intestine, as “altered” or “foreign” and begins a relentless attack. In recent
years, however, the pathologies associated with CD have been observed in other
conditions that affect the regulation of immune and inflammatory cells to cope
with bacterial pathogens, such as Chronic Granulomatous Disease (CGD) and
Chronic Variable Immunodeficiency (CVI). Moreover, studies of white blood cells
present in tissue biopsies from CD patients demonstrate a dysfunction in the abil-
ity of these cells to ingest particles, a preliminary event for clearance of bacteria
that invade tissues (3). These more recent studies call into question the autoim-
mune etiology of CD. This disease does not appear to be a result of immune
activities directed specifically against human tissue."

The autoimmune theory comes from a) the use of immunesupressive drugs, and b) the presence of lymphocytes in the tissue. a) have been shown by two independent researchers to have antimicrobial effects, so they act in two ways; one, reducing inflammation and two as antimicrobials. b) is stupid, just because white cells are found in tissues is supposed to mean it is autoimmune?

Moreover, if CD was a reaction to the commensal flora, why does disease not occur everywhere the that flora touches the bowel wall? And why have probiotics attenuated UC and CD?Interestingly fecal transplants have had very impressive results for UC, another so-called autoimmune disease.

The Center for Disease Control feels that most diseases of unknown cause will eventually be revealed to be infectious in origin; autoimmunity attached to all these diseases is probably the biggest hindrance to productive research more than anything else.
12-03-2008, 09:36 PM   #5
MINI Cooper
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Unless my doctor or CFFA says otherwise, I consider Crohn's as a disease where
there is a problem with the immune system.

"Both illnesses (crohns and colitis) do have one strong feature in common. They are marked by an abnormal response by the body's immune system. The immune system is composed of various cells and proteins. Normally, these protect the body from infection. In people with Crohn's disease, however, the immune system reacts inappropriately. Researchers believe that the immune system mistakes microbes, such as bacteria that is normally found in the intestines, for foreign or invading substances, and launches an attack. In the process, the body sends white blood cells into the lining of the intestines, where they produce chronic inflammation. These cells then generate harmful products that ultimately lead to ulcerations and bowel injury. When this happens, the patient experiences the symptoms of IBD."

-http://www.ccfa.org/info/about/crohns
12-03-2008, 10:30 PM   #6
sh!+_stains
 
Ask your GI the next time you see them if they know that MAP has fulfilled Koch's Postulates for Crohn's as well as Rellman's guidelines, provided they even know what they are because most (surprisingly or not surprisingly rather) do not know what they are. Also that MAP does quite well with Hill's criteria for CD as well. CCFA is a tax write off for drug companies.

Undoubtedly there is an immune component; it is just that it is a part of the disease pathogenesis; not the cause. This is a really good article and I'd be happy to email it to you if you want. [email protected]


David
12-03-2008, 10:31 PM   #7
Jeff D.
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sh!+ stains- do you have a report of scientific origin with an author that states Crohn's is not an autimmune disease.

Sorry I was writing while you put this up
12-03-2008, 10:43 PM   #8
sh!+_stains
 
From just below on CCFA's website it states that:

"Many scientists now believe that the interaction of an outside agent (such as a virus or bacterium) with the body's immune system may trigger the disease, or that such an agent may cause damage to the intestinal wall, initiating or accelerating the disease process."


I honestly believe that the autoimmune theory has set research progress back significantly.
12-04-2008, 12:09 AM   #9
D Bergy
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I believe there is an immune system element to Crohn's and many other so called auto immune diseases. But the term autoimmune is a cop out term in my opinion.

I think there almost always is a pathogen involved with the immune response in most any auto immune disease. It may not be identified, but the immune system is pretty good at discerning what belongs and what doesn't. The immune system may respond to it more or less but it is not just attacking your guts all of a sudden for no good reason.

I believe the reason for the confusion with the MAP bacteria connection is because it does not work alone in creating symptoms. MAP and certain strain or strains of E-Coli work together to create inflammation. Once you get pathogens like this in your system in high numbers it creates a different environment that allows other pathogenic bacteria to grow. Soon you are dealing with a host of damaging bacteria that are causing multiple problems. There also may be fungus, namely yeast that adds to the problem.

Probiotics can help keep the bad bacteria from increasing and maybe even reduce them over time. I do not think this is a quick fix. It could take months maybe longer if you are not actively killing the bad bacteria.

I would be very surprised if efforts are made to reduce the E-Coli and MAP bacteria would not result in improvement in most, if not all, cases of Crohn's.

I used that very premise for my treatment and am still symptom free. It could be a fluke, luck or some other unknown factor, but I doubt it would last this long.

I was flared when I started and have no indication of any inflammation presently that I can identify.

It also explains why I went into sudden remission in my twenties after a barium enema. I did not know I had Crohn's but knew something was wrong as the chronic big D would not go away. As soon as the enema was done I had no more symptoms for years. It simply flushed out or killed the bacteria that caused the problem.

I think it is worth anyone's time to investigate this aspect of Crohn's.

I spent a lot of time on the whats and whys of this disease and the Lyme disease my wife has. I have spent the last few years investigating alternative medicine and finding what works and what does not for both of our conditions. I am certain I am more right than wrong. The proof is my remission and my wifes good health in spite of the Lyme still in her system. Crohn's was easy compared to chronic Lyme disease. That is one I am still working on for a complete cure.

You really would be surprised how much you can do without any doctor and using common sense and a few key alternative treatments.

Dan
12-04-2008, 08:53 AM   #10
sh!+_stains
 
At the conference in Washington Dr. Arlette Michaud-Darfeuille presented on Adherent Invasive E-Coli, and afterwards she said that in here opinion it is really only associated with Ileal Crohn's Disease. She is one of the current world experts researching AIEC. Anyways, take that for what you will; is AIEC a cause of only Ileal CD or is it getting stuck preferentially to inflamed ileums and is not capable of adhering well to a colon that isn't already inflamed? Also, E-coli is not known to set up chronic enteritis; only acute, but I guess you never know.

What kind of enemas did you use? MAP is intracellular and throughout one's blood so an enema could not have eliminated all MAP. Plus, it is likely that MAP is deep in the intestinal tissues. And even perhaps that ulcers start from within and make their way to the 'surface' within the colon, like the top of a volcano, meaning GIs when they look at the ulcer aren't looking at the starting point but the end and are potentially misinterpreting everything, thus why they give credence to the fecal stream theory.

Lyme is crazy. Have you heard of Burrascano in NY? Trent Nichols in PA said that something like 70% of his IBD patients test positive for Lyme. What does this mean?


12-04-2008, 10:21 AM   #11
D Bergy
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Lyme causes lots of problems if left unchecked. I can control and reduce the bacterial load, but eliminating it is virtually impossible using current medical methods. If not treated immediatly, you are going to be saddled with it for a life time. In the case of this disease there are many alternative methods that work better than the accepted treatments.

The enema I had was with Barium and it was so they could get an X-Ray of my lower intestinal tract. I suspect that Barium like other metals just oxidized whatever bacteria was on the surface of my lower intestinal tract. I would suspect that it was mostly E-Coli and not so much MAP. Both are needed to produce symptoms related to Crohn's.

I was a young man then and my immune system worked much better than it does now. It only took a litle help to get it under control. My diet also did not promote bacterial infections. I largely ate a high protien diet with little sugar and grains.

At the time, the stress of being newly married, a miscarriage, and being dirt poor probably lowered my immune fuction enough to allow the bacteria to get out of control.

I think researchers are too bent on single causes. It is more complex than that.
At the beginning though MAP and E-Coli likely start the ball rolling. After that any number of fungi and bacteria take residence. The fungi break down the mucous in the intestinal tract causing other symptoms.

I also had an H-Pylori infection that I cleared using an alternative treatment that I have used for Lyme disease. That eliminated most all of my painful symptoms, but could not remove a stricture that caused other symptoms. Only surgery could resolve that.

I reduced or eliminated MAP with Chlorine Dioxide. It is experimental but it oxidizes most any bacteria that are more acidic than the body. I like using it because it is selective in what it kills. Colloidal Silver and antibiotics are not so discriminating and wipe out much of the good bacteria along with the bad.

It is used by the immune system to kill bacteria but gives it much more potentcy.
Chlorine Dioxide kills bacteria far more effectively than any other alternative method I have used. Six weeks of use cleared the sensation in my terminal Illium that nothing else would touch. I have not had that sensation since.

You will only find a handful of doctors in the U.S. that use it for treatment. It is not approved for treating anything. I also have not found anything better and I have tried quite a few different methods. You can get it under the name of Miracle Mineral Supplement.

It is experimental and has not been tested as thouroghly as I would like, but the chemistry says it breaks down quickly into harmless substances. Use at your own risk. I have yet to hear of anyone being harmed by it, but that does not mean someone, somewhere, could not possibly manage to do that.

Dan
12-04-2008, 11:25 AM   #12
sh!+_stains
 
Thanks for all the information! I will look into chlorine dioxide
12-05-2008, 12:23 AM   #13
pb4
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Our intestinal tract is home to 70% of the immune system. Lactic acid bacteria (lactobacillus) present in the intestine plays an active and important role in the regulation, development, and processing of our immune system.

Lactic acid bacteria within our intestine are digested to produce cell wall fragments that initiate the process for stimulating the body's natural immune response. The reason for this response is due to proteins and other biological substances that are contained within the cell walls. The immune system does not respond to the presence of whole lactic acid bacteria until digestion occurs and cell wall fragments are produced. This is the process for the natural immune response.



Last edited by pb4; 12-05-2008 at 12:35 AM.
12-05-2008, 09:05 PM   #14
D Bergy
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Here is one article that indicates certain E-Coli strains appear to play a role in Crohn's.

It is not new, but I believe it is accurate yet incomplete.

http://www.ccfa.org/reuters/ecoli

Dan
12-06-2008, 12:50 AM   #15
sh!+_stains
 
Thanks for posting. Think you could post some stuff about the chlorine dioxide.

I think MAP is the strongest candidate, but that said E-Coli certainly is a first rate candidate as well. Perhaps they can both play a significant role in one's IBD. And or perhaps they may be the cause of specific types of CD, so that MAP causes say 60% of CD and E-Coli causes 30% - speculating wildly, but who knows. I firmly believe that some pathogen, maybe even viral or fungal sets up the conditions in the bowel for the pathogenesis of IBD to take off - just look at C. Diff. or H Pylori or anywhere else in the body that there is inflammation; inflammation, think infection.

It makes no sense that by some miracle people start reacting to their own floral, which prior to IBD was completely normal.
12-06-2008, 01:11 AM   #16
sh!+_stains
 


















Dr. Jonathon Rhodes mentioned in the article from CCFA is using antibiotics to target E-Coli
12-06-2008, 10:59 AM   #17
D Bergy
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Chlorine dioxide oxidizes bacteria, viruses and parasites with a pH of 7.0 or below.
Human tissue and most bacteria that are beneficial to humans are of a pH of 7.3 or higher. This is what makes it more selective in what it kills than Colloidal Silver or most any antibiotic. This disinfectant action is well established by other uses of Chlorine Dioxide such as water treatment, hospital disinfectants, etc. Internal use is relatively new and has been tested by the producers of Dioxychlor. This product is chemically identical to MMS which is used to produce Chlorine Dioxide. It is a weaker form of Chlorine Dioxide but the same chemical.

The only thing that keeps it from oxidizing bacteria with a pH of 7.0 or below is the biofilm that protects certain bacteria such as cyst form of Lyme. The biofilm of Lyme is what makes it so hard to destroy completely. It changes form for survival and I admire its very effective defense mechanism, and hate it at the same time.

I have a long drown out story of how my experimentation using frequency treatments led me to believe certain strains of E-Coli are involved with Crohn's, but I will not go into it now. The important thing is a real researcher using different methods came to the same conclusion.

In the end it really does not matter to us which bacteria are responsible, but knowing that it is a bacteria that is likely acidic is important. Remember that acidic bacteria are the ones that generally do not belong in our body to begin with. Some of the suspect bacteria are, H-Pylori, MAP, E-Coli, Listeria, Measles virus, and half a dozen others.

Using the logic that Crohn's symptoms are most likely caused by some pathogen and that pathogens usually are acidic in nature gives us the ability to kill them using Chlorine Dioxide (MMS) or Miracle Mineral Supplement.

I hate research that is interesting but totally useless for any practical solution to our disease. I have taken the research and came up with a practical treatment to help no matter what bacteria is involved. As long as they are acidic, and that is likely, and they have no biofilm strong enough to protect them (unlikely because this is specific to certain bacteria) it should help.

I tested it on myself and it worked as it should have using this hypothesis. The results of one person are only worth so much. Very little really. The important thing is the logic is sound and only more testing will prove its usefulness or lack of it.

Dan
12-06-2008, 11:18 AM   #18
Jeff D.
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Dan wait for the summer and I'm going to try it out. I'm going to try to have my doctor monitor me so that there is more than my word for how it works. Then we will have documented proof of it working. Thanks for all your help. I'm going to order it so I can start the first week of summer.
12-06-2008, 11:38 AM   #19
sh!+_stains
 
Very good. I am going to need to digest all this information before I can make any really constructive comments. Chlorine dioxide i guess can kill cell-wall deficient forms of bacteria too? Interesting about the acidity of bacteria being important; you always hear about wanting a non-acidic internal body but i did not realize the same goes for the bacteria in your body. Without knowing much about the process of chlorination I always wondered if it would be killing off the beneficial bacteria and could then be contributing to IBD; I have been told by doctors to not take probiotics with chlorinated water based on this idea. The idea of chlorination in city water made some intuitive sense as a possible contributory factor to IBD, just as recent research on iron in city water has shown to be a risk factor, but if the chlorine is not indiscriminate in which bacteria it kills then it I guess that worry does not reply apply?

Good luck Jeff.



David
12-06-2008, 12:39 PM   #20
D Bergy
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I would take a probiotic regardless of what it is supposed to do. Even if it kills no beneficial bacteria you are vacating a huge amount of bad bacteria. You may as well make sure you are repopulating with good bacteria.

Yeast also can rear its ugly head when given a space to grow.

It is a good idea to have an objective third party monitor progress or lack of it.

Dan
12-06-2008, 01:11 PM   #21
D Bergy
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Your doctor will not recommend you use it. They are not too keen on something they are not familiar with. They also are open to sanctions and losing their license if they approve any unapproved treatment for anything.

Just thought you should know that beforehand.

Do some research on it before you use it. Whenever you try something experimental you are taking on the responsibility of the results good or bad.

I decided the risk was minimal based on the information I had on the subject. You may come to a different conclusion. Don't do it solely on my opinion. Try it out if it makes sense to you based on the information available. It takes some digging, but it is worth the effort. Weigh the risk vs the reward. This differs for every case.

You also need to know what to expect when you use it. Big D is a given at some point. At a certain dosage the bad bacteria will die in your intestinal tract and your body will dump it out. Later you will not be able to induce the big D no matter what dose you use. There is no more to be killed.

Always use caution when using experimental treatments. They are not for everyone.


Dan
12-06-2008, 01:14 PM   #22
D Bergy
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About Iron. Iron is a very good oxidizer also. That is why it bothers our stomachs. Too much Iron will oxidate tissues in our body and age us prematurely.

Iron is not a selective oxidizer but we do need some for our body to function properly.

Dan
12-06-2008, 02:46 PM   #23
sh!+_stains
 
think you could email me some stuff on chlorine dioxide? [email protected]


There is supposed to be a Swedish study coming out with similar results. A doctor that told me about the association felt it prudent to minimize any dietary intake of iron as much as possible; double-edge sword for people with IBD that are anemic, taking iron could make their disease worse, but you need to sometimes.

12-07-2008, 09:45 AM   #25
sh!+_stains
 
Thanks
12-07-2008, 01:37 PM   #26
Jeff D.
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Dan do you have any articles on the side effects as I can't find much on that. My girlfriend is a little concerned about me taking it so I'm trying to find as much stuff as I can to weigh the goods and bads.
12-07-2008, 02:23 PM   #27
D Bergy
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The only side effects I have ever come across are stomach upset. Most anyone can experience this, particularly if you take it on a totally empty stomach. I always took it in the evening about two hours after eating. I took it once in the morning before eating and my stomach felt lousy for a couple of hours.

My wife developed a stomach sensitivity to it after many weeks of use. This is common with antibiotics also. She had to quit using it for this reason. It did no permanent harm. Others have had this happen also.

Some people will vomit for the above reasons. I have never personally seen or experienced this, but it does happen sometimes. Most people that use this are already sick in one way or another so the reactions may or may not be tied to the illness they have.

In all of these cases, you can drink something with added vitamin C and it deactivates the MMS. That is something you want to remember.

I have also heard of Cancer patients killing too much Cancer at once by going to fast with the MMS and suffering a real severe reaction. Cancer is toxic when killed and too much die off can be lethal. This is true for any treatment that kills it.

I never had any problem with it other than taking it on an empty stomach. The worst part is the taste. It is horrible. You should not smell it either as it is producing a gas when activated that is an irritant.

Some people are now just taking the Sodium Chlorite without activating it. The theory is that the stomach acid will activate it anyway. I do not know if this works as well or not.

You have to start out with a minimal dose and slowly work your way up. I stopped when I got the big D and started up again when it stopped. There is no reason to hurry with it. Bacteria cannot develop a resistance to it. I always go slow the first time I use any treatment I am not familiar with.

Much of your reaction depends on what bacteria and viruses you are harboring. A perfectly healthy person will not get big D and will not have any improvement or any reaction to treatment. A sickly person with tons of pathogens will have lots of big D and possibly vomiting. The body will remove any dead bacteria it has one way or another.

I had a moderate reaction and my wife suffered quite a bit at first at the destruction of lots of Lyme and who knows what coinfections she may have had.
She could not even tolerate one drop every day at first. I ramped up quickly because my bacteria was mostly in my guts. They do not cause pain or anything else but the big D.

I always drank a lot of water with it because I was trying to get the MMS as far into my intestinal tract as possible. Usually it is the blood carrying it to kill the pathogens but with Crohn's direct contact was possible and that is what I was going for.

Since you do not have Cancer the side effects that I am aware of is limited to stomach upset, possible vomiting. Since it breaks down quickly there really is no residue to be left in the body.

I do not recommend using it for cold or flu viruses. I have done this a couple of times and it is too hard on the body killing huge amount of viruses at once. They also replicate very fast and you have to keep on taking it for several days to prevent it from multiplying. I think the immune system is best left to normal flu and cold viruses.

Dan
12-07-2008, 02:58 PM   #28
Jeff D.
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Thanks so much for the advice. I knew about drinking something with added vitamin C to deactivate it. I'm really wanting to try but my girlfriend is a little worried that it will make me worse or that it will kill all the bacteria in my stomache so I won't be able to eat. At this I keep telling her that MMS kills bacteria under a pH of 6 and above a pH of 10 but she doesn't seem to believe me; which is why I'm trying to get some studies on it with humans. I just can't find anything.
12-07-2008, 09:54 PM   #29
D Bergy
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The only well designed studies were done on the Dioxychlor product. The problem is they were private studies and you have to pay for them.

You could use Dioxychlor instead but it is weaker. Chemically it is the same product.
Either should work but it may take longer with Dioxychlor.

I would take probiotics to protest against yeast infection. Yeast seems to always take off whenever you kill any bacteria. It reproduces fast and can really be a problem. My father is battling with yeast right now from long antibiotic use. I can kill it using an alternative treatment, but it comes back so fast it has to be addressed with a sugar free diet and probiotics for a long term solution. He finally is going to go that route. His immune system is weak and he needs to get rid of this.

Dan
12-07-2008, 10:34 PM   #30
Jeff D.
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Thanks for the info. I would love to take it but I don't think I will try it until I can get my girlfriend's approval. She cares for me a lot and she has really good instincts so if she says she is afraid of me taking it I will put it off until there are more studies on it. Thanks for the help my friend. I just wished there were more scientific trials on this.
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