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07-20-2015, 05:37 PM   #541
wildbill_52280
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Wish i had access to this.
One of the very few studies of this kind, more to come I'm sure.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...60982215006144
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Learn How Fecal transplants restore good bacteria that regulate inflammation to induce remission and how it has potential to be a cure for IBD in the future. Follow the link below.
http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=52400
07-20-2015, 05:56 PM   #542
Ihurt
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: United States

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A disruption in the human microbiome I believe is connected to a lot of different chronic illnesses. Our immune systems reside in the gut. If that perfect ecosystem is disrupted, it can cause a cascade of health issues and ailments. I think Fecal transplants are going to be a way of the future. Some people are actually doing them on their own in order to heal their guts and bodies of different illnesses.

I have been having horrible intestinal issues as well as other health issues. I really would like to do a FT but there are literally no Dr's in or around Chicago who will do them. They will do them at like only a couple hospitals and only for refractory C-diff that will not respond to antibiotics. I think FT should be a first line of treatment for C-diff, not antibiotics. Antibiotics only further damage the gut Microbiome.

I also have heard of people who had UC and IBS who got cured from doing FT's. I really think this is the way of the future. I think mainstream thinking is going to change when it comes to treating infections. Instead of treating with antimicrobials, they will probably start fighting bacteria with bacteria. It makes sense..
07-20-2015, 06:57 PM   #543
wildbill_52280
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
A disruption in the human microbiome I believe is connected to a lot of different chronic illnesses. Our immune systems reside in the gut. If that perfect ecosystem is disrupted, it can cause a cascade of health issues and ailments. I think Fecal transplants are going to be a way of the future. Some people are actually doing them on their own in order to heal their guts and bodies of different illnesses.

I have been having horrible intestinal issues as well as other health issues. I really would like to do a FT but there are literally no Dr's in or around Chicago who will do them. They will do them at like only a couple hospitals and only for refractory C-diff that will not respond to antibiotics. I think FT should be a first line of treatment for C-diff, not antibiotics. Antibiotics only further damage the gut Microbiome.

I also have heard of people who had UC and IBS who got cured from doing FT's. I really think this is the way of the future. I think mainstream thinking is going to change when it comes to treating infections. Instead of treating with antimicrobials, they will probably start fighting bacteria with bacteria. It makes sense..
yes i did 4 of them so far. The third was a partial success i gained my weight back after being underweight for 6-7- years since diagnoses, i feel better too, many symptoms of crohn's remain doing it again soon.

Dr Borody reported recovery from multiple sclerosis in a patient and another report from duke university reports a man with severe ALS got up out of his wheelchair after an FMT. Autism studys planned in the future with FMT as well. I'll post links in a sec.

I realized the power of Fecal transplants maybe 4 years ago when I learned more about the bacteria in the gut and how many things we come in contact with that can destroy it. I'm dedicated to this idea's value and find value in promoting it.

EDIT- Other factors which led me to embrace the idea of the microbiome as an important general cause of disease were a book called prolongation of life optimistic written by nobel prize winning scientist elie metchnikoff which theorized the bacteria in the colon was highly involved in the aging process and disease in a process called autointoxication today this concept may be similar to something we call leaky gut/intestinal permeability and dysbiosis. his belief in the idea of probiotics to maintain health was an additional factor. https://books.google.com/books?id=U8...tudies&f=false

another book was written by john harvey kellogg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg
he was a doctor who also believed and experimented with altering the microbiome with yogurt enemas, in his case it was for psychological illness. This is the same guy who believed in a high fiber diet and started kellog cereal company.

And then there is denis burkitt a researcher that studied illness in africa during to 50 and 60's he theorized many modern diseases not found in africa were somehow related to the fiber in peoples diets and the quality and size of there stools. We know now that bacteria ferment fiber in the colon, so I believe burkitt's work compliments and reinforces the work or john harvey kellogg and elie methnikoff. http://nutritionfacts.org/video/dr-b...ts-f-word-diet

And finally there is my own experiances, i have been exposed to lots of antibiotics since 20 years old for acne, then after one course in 2008 for bronchitis 3 weeks later i had no energy and it felt like my brain was on fire i was stressed out and couldnt think straight, my hair started falling out and months later I developed colonic/ileal inflammation had an anxiety attack a colonoscopy and diagnosed with crohn's. After some studies i found linked antibiotics to crohn's it was becoming more clear, the idea that i was missing bacteria essential for health is a very likely theory this is what one major variable to how i developed this disease.

Now I sit back and watch study after study confirm this theory, and I already know the truth.

Last edited by wildbill_52280; 07-24-2015 at 11:24 AM.
07-23-2015, 08:31 PM   #544
Lady Organic
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''Increased Proportions of Bifidobacterium and the Lactobacillus Group and Loss of Butyrate-Producing Bacteria in Inflammatory Bowel Disease''

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3911339/

so I am getting confused. I thought lactobacillus were good probiotics for us? I had heard being cautious with Bifido, but lactobacillus too? could someone comment this research? thank you!
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''UC-like Crohn's'' since 2001:
on: 25mg 6-MP (purinethol)+ B12 shots
minor hands/wrists chronic arthritis since 01/2013

Diet: ''IBD-AID'' : http://www.nutritionj.com/content/13/1/5+ organic food only
suppl Curcuminoid extract, Inulin,psyllium, apple pectin, Vitamin D

past meds:
pred 50mg, 5-ASA, cortifoam, Imuran (failed) Purinethol (success) methotrexate (failed CD and arthritis).
07-24-2015, 09:22 AM   #545
jayann
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Orlando, Florida
Hi Organic Girl,

Yes it is confusing. I'm going to stick with VSL#3 until it isn't helping.

I took the Gut Check: Exploring your Microbiome. It was a Coursera Class through the University of Colorado put on by Rob Knight's Lab. It covered everything from how we acquire our microbes, to how they identify them by sequencing, to fecal transplants. One thing I learned is that Crohn's patients are missing or have very low Faecalibacterium prausnitzii. What I'd like to know is how do we get them. They are butyrate producing bacteria. I'd like to also know what are other Butyrate producing bacteria and how do we cquire them? If you were going to do a FMT then you'd certainly want the donor to have them.

I found this on Reference #16 of the link you just sent.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2575488/

BTW I got a notice about private conversation from you. It said "hi" I couldn't figure out how to respond.
07-24-2015, 11:32 AM   #546
wildbill_52280
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
''Increased Proportions of Bifidobacterium and the Lactobacillus Group and Loss of Butyrate-Producing Bacteria in Inflammatory Bowel Disease''

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3911339/

so I am getting confused. I thought lactobacillus were good probiotics for us? I had heard being cautious with Bifido, but lactobacillus too? could someone comment this research? thank you!
Lacto and bifido are still good for us, they are probably just unbalanced in ibd guts. It's possible they could take on a pro-inflammatory role as well because of intestinal permeability issues as no bacteria good or bad are supposed to be coming through the intestinal barrier. Butyrate producing bacteria such as clostridium clusters which dominate the intestinal lining maintain this barrier function. One study I read showed a loss of b. adolescentis. Lets just say the butyrate producing bacteria are the most important in IBD and other bacteria are also messed up and play a minor role.
07-24-2015, 12:02 PM   #547
jayann
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Orlando, Florida
Lacto and bifido are still good for us, they are probably just unbalanced in ibd guts. It's possible they could take on a pro-inflammatory role as well because of intestinal permeability issues as no bacteria good or bad are supposed to be coming through the intestinal barrier. Butyrate producing bacteria such as clostridium clusters which dominate the intestinal lining maintain this barrier function. One study I read showed a loss of b. adolescentis. Lets just say the butyrate producing bacteria are the most important in IBD and other bacteria are also messed up and play a minor role.
Wild Bill,

Do you have a list, or can you name a few of the butyrate producing bacteria. My understanding is that butyrate feed the colonic tissue and has a healing effect. Some people have had success with butyrate enemas.

I've heard of one person from a my doc. She said he gives it to his wife. She takes it orally and says it helps. I'm under the impression that it doesn't make it through the stomach acid, so not much gets to the colon. Can you confirm or deny this.
07-24-2015, 05:19 PM   #548
wildbill_52280
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Wild Bill,

Do you have a list, or can you name a few of the butyrate producing bacteria. My understanding is that butyrate feed the colonic tissue and has a healing effect. Some people have had success with butyrate enemas.

I've heard of one person from a my doc. She said he gives it to his wife. She takes it orally and says it helps. I'm under the impression that it doesn't make it through the stomach acid, so not much gets to the colon. Can you confirm or deny this.
In mice they have fed them butyric acid in their drinking water and it seemed to positively affect the immune system just by oral administration. I don't recall if the mice specifically had colitis or not, they may have. A study was conducted with butyric acid supplements with enteric coating and had a dramatic effect on IBD for some patients at least. This med was not developed any further though. It was disappointing that a natural based therapy would just be scrapped.

Niacin can stimulate the same receptor for butyrate, adding to your regimen would likely have some benefit but some negative reports of high doses exist in animal studies, it inhibits sirtuins which is essential for autophagy function. I would recommend 50mg of niacin in the form of nicotinic acid, then try messing with niacinamide they are similar but may affect your disease differently. I can say in my own experience the 100mg nicotinic acid form i take supresses some of my symptoms. I have not messed around with niacinamide yet but its in my multivitamin i think I'm getting enough.

On ebay you can order a probiotic clostridium butyricum, it's popular in japan to protect against antibiotic associated diarhea. That's probably going to provide more benefits then any other probiotic on the market in the us, but I have not tested this yet.

Last edited by wildbill_52280; 07-25-2015 at 07:33 PM.
07-24-2015, 09:16 PM   #549
Lady Organic
Forum Monitor
 
Lady Organic's Avatar
''Oral butyrate for mildly to moderately active Crohn's disease.''
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16225487

http://ibdcrohns.about.com/od/altern...ve-colitis.htm

''Dietary Gut Microbial Metabolites, Short-chain Fatty Acids, and Host Metabolic'' Regulation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4425176/

im supplementing with Inulin prebiotics in hope to increase my butyrate production. I could consider taking supplements.

@jayann: click on private messages on top right corner of the page., you shall be able to open my message there. It was a response to your questions about my experience with enteral diet.
07-24-2015, 11:32 PM   #550
wildbill_52280
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
''Oral butyrate for mildly to moderately active Crohn's disease.''
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16225487

http://ibdcrohns.about.com/od/altern...ve-colitis.htm

''Dietary Gut Microbial Metabolites, Short-chain Fatty Acids, and Host Metabolic'' Regulation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4425176/

yep!! that's the one for butyrate. 7 out of 9 crohn's patients achieved remission with enteric coated butyrate. Safe, natural therapy that was ditched 10 years ago.
07-25-2015, 08:28 AM   #551
ppk
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Massachusetts
yep!! that's the one for butyrate. 7 out of 9 crohn's patients achieved remission with enteric coated butyrate. Safe, natural therapy that was ditched 10 years ago.
That is a shame - is anyone here on the board currently using enteric coated butyrate as a supplement?
07-25-2015, 11:34 AM   #552
jayann
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Orlando, Florida
In mice they have fed them butyric acid in their drinking water and it seemed to positively affect the immune system just by oral administration. I don't recall if the mice specifically had colitis or not, they may have. A study was conducted with butyric acid supplements with enteric coating and had a dramatic effect on IBD for some patients at least. This med was not developed any further though. It was disappointing that a natural based therapy would just be scrapped.

Niacin can stimulate the same receptor for butyrate, adding to your regimen would likely have some benefit but some negative reports of high doses exist in animal studies, it inhibits sirtuins which is essential for autophagy function. I would recommend 250mg of niacin in the form of nicotinic acid, then try messing with niacinamide they are similar but may affect your disease differently. I can say in my own experience the 250 nicotinic acid form i take supresses some of my symptoms. I have not messed around with niacinamide yet but its in my multivitamin i think I'm getting enough.

On ebay you can order a probiotic clostridium butyricum, it's popular in japan to protect against antibiotic associated diarhea. That's probably going to provide more benefits then any other probiotic on the market in the us, but I have not tested this yet.
Thanks,

Some great suggestions. It is disappointing that a natural remedy would be scrapped. Guess no one can make billions off of it.

I'll look into the probiotic you suggested. Sounds promising. I've got some sodium butyrate, but only took a few, as didn't think it was getting to the colon. Will try again. Wish someone made an enteric coated. I understand they have enteric coated for cattle industry of some such. Just not for humans.
07-25-2015, 04:14 PM   #553
ppk
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Massachusetts
wilbill - I just bought some Myarisan, thanks for the tip! I bet it will help reduce my intestinal permeability.
07-30-2015, 12:33 PM   #554
jayann
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Orlando, Florida
yep!! that's the one for butyrate. 7 out of 9 crohn's patients achieved remission with enteric coated butyrate. Safe, natural therapy that was ditched 10 years ago.
Where does one get enteric coated butyrate? Thanks, jayann
07-30-2015, 12:37 PM   #555
wildbill_52280
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Where does one get enteric coated butyrate? Thanks, jayann
one does not!!
07-30-2015, 12:48 PM   #556
ppk
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Massachusetts
There is a product called ButyrEn which is enteric coated butyrate. You can get it from a lot of different websites, but here is one link (I don't get any referral money from this):

http://www.amazon.com/Allergy-Resear.../dp/B000LVDI5M

Keep in mind that intestinal cells in the small bowel mostly use glutamine, and butyrate probably mostly helps intestinal cells in the large bowel. Someone please correct me if this is wrong.
07-30-2015, 12:54 PM   #557
wildbill_52280
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
There is a product called ButyrEn which is enteric coated butyrate. You can get it from a lot of different websites, but here is one link (I don't get any referral money from this):

http://www.amazon.com/Allergy-Resear.../dp/B000LVDI5M

Keep in mind that intestinal cells in the small bowel mostly use glutamine, and butyrate probably mostly helps intestinal cells in the large bowel. Someone please correct me if this is wrong.
Then I stand corrected. Enteric coated just means it resists stomach acid, there isn't any guaranty its slowly released in the colon or stays intact in the small intestine, as far as im aware.
07-30-2015, 01:22 PM   #558
ppk
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Massachusetts
Then I stand corrected. Enteric coated just means it resists stomach acid, there isn't any guaranty its slowly released in the colon or stays intact in the small intestine, as far as im aware.
Yeah, I think that understanding is correct. For me, I'm not sure how much ButyrEn would help me as all of my disease activity is focused around my terminal ileum.
07-31-2015, 12:25 PM   #559
wildbill_52280
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Some general news on microbiome research.

http://www.streetinsider.com/Press+R.../10766684.html
07-31-2015, 12:29 PM   #560
wildbill_52280
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
[QUOTE=wildbill_52280;880103]Some general news on microbiome research.

http://www.ucalgary.ca/utoday/issue/...-federal-grant
08-01-2015, 02:40 PM   #561
wildbill_52280
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
consumer reports magazine mentions fecal transplants in an article.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/m...eria/index.htm
08-04-2015, 03:05 PM   #562
wildbill_52280
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
A new paper(july 6 2015) by Thomas Borody on Fecal Transplants.
http://www.mdpi.com/2079-6382/4/3/254/htm
08-04-2015, 03:09 PM   #563
wildbill_52280
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Just a blurb about someones conversations with professer borody.

http://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/topic...ut-curing-ibs/
08-04-2015, 03:22 PM   #564
wildbill_52280
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Womens claims to give fecal transplant to autistic son and he is now able to speak.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ete-Evans.html
08-05-2015, 12:45 PM   #565
christiffa25
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Hi peeps, just a question regarding FMT I wonder if anyone has an idea on a possible answer. (I know there's NO definite answers to anything regarding this yet)

I've read plenty about how it can possibly help our diseases. I've seen loads of people's clad to be much much better after doing this treatment.

I've had 2 surgeries already for my Crohns. First one was a right heloclectomy (spelt wrong I know) the second was a small resection at the site of the join (scar tissue) from the first op. I now have a stricture again in the same place at the join. Have had 2 dilations to open it up, but it doesn't last long. A 3rd Surgery is being organized to do a small resection again....

Anyway....once in this posistion, is it at all possible that FMT can help with recuring strictures (most likely due to scar tissue) that need surgery or are these strictures not likely to be helped by FMT.???

Any insight would be great. I just have no idea!!
08-05-2015, 12:58 PM   #566
wildbill_52280
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Hi peeps, just a question regarding FMT I wonder if anyone has an idea on a possible answer. (I know there's NO definite answers to anything regarding this yet)

I've read plenty about how it can possibly help our diseases. I've seen loads of people's clad to be much much better after doing this treatment.

I've had 2 surgeries already for my Crohns. First one was a right heloclectomy (spelt wrong I know) the second was a small resection at the site of the join (scar tissue) from the first op. I now have a stricture again in the same place at the join. Have had 2 dilations to open it up, but it doesn't last long. A 3rd Surgery is being organized to do a small resection again....

Anyway....once in this posistion, is it at all possible that FMT can help with recuring strictures (most likely due to scar tissue) that need surgery or are these strictures not likely to be helped by FMT.???

Any insight would be great. I just have no idea!!

there was just a study that tried to answer a question about FMT use in people who had surgery, I dont have a link it may be somewhere in this FMT thread, but you can try googling the terms to find the study. I do recall there was still some benefit.
08-05-2015, 01:50 PM   #567
christiffa25
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Thanks wildbil I'll try find some info.
08-05-2015, 02:13 PM   #568
christiffa25
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Can't really find anything.....

If anyone does find anything and could link to it that would be great!
08-07-2015, 01:25 PM   #569
wildbill_52280
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Hi peeps, just a question regarding FMT I wonder if anyone has an idea on a possible answer. (I know there's NO definite answers to anything regarding this yet)

I've read plenty about how it can possibly help our diseases. I've seen loads of people's clad to be much much better after doing this treatment.

I've had 2 surgeries already for my Crohns. First one was a right heloclectomy (spelt wrong I know) the second was a small resection at the site of the join (scar tissue) from the first op. I now have a stricture again in the same place at the join. Have had 2 dilations to open it up, but it doesn't last long. A 3rd Surgery is being organized to do a small resection again....

Anyway....once in this posistion, is it at all possible that FMT can help with recuring strictures (most likely due to scar tissue) that need surgery or are these strictures not likely to be helped by FMT.???

Any insight would be great. I just have no idea!!

christiffa25
study isn't completed yet, but it is believed FMT would be a benefit for someone with a resection.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/...ohn%27s&rank=1
08-13-2015, 01:13 PM   #570
wildbill_52280
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Les Dethlefsen, Ph.D., is a staff scientist at the Relman labs at Stanford. Since joining the lab in 2004, his work has been focused on the temporal dynamics of the gut microbiota. Les has an undergraduate double major in physics and molecular biology. He earned his Ph.D. in both Microbiology and Ecology/Evolutionary Biology from Michigan State.

Hear what he has to say about fecal Transplants @53:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnyyB_aKjAs
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