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Crohn's Disease Forum » Books, Multimedia, Research & News » Dysbiosis in inflammatory bowel diseases: the oxygen hypothesis.


08-23-2013, 07:48 PM   #1
mf15
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Dysbiosis in inflammatory bowel diseases: the oxygen hypothesis.

Hopefully I will get it close someday.

Based on Dysbiosis in inflammatory bowel diseases: the oxygen hypothesis.
The key point I believe is that facultative anaerobes should not be present in any kind of high amounts.
Seems like this is tying together.

Inflammation, generates more oxygen in the colon iNOS/possible excess nitrates in diet/ROS/blood, all add to excess oxygen , or oxygen radicals. Obligate anaerobes/bacteriodes die, trpsin/protease is not deactivated,facultative anaerobes grow and invade,more inflammation,tissue destruction. Not necessarily in this exact order.

Interestingly enough bacteriodes are the only bacteria known to deactivate trypsin, a serine protease.

If too much protease is present say in the colon/rectum we start to digest ourselves.

Possible trigger events.

Antibiotics

excess nitrate in diet

infection

pesticides



Believe need a multipronged approach.

Low nitrate/nitrite diet. May need to go totally organic,and stop certain veggies.

Possible low arginine diet/reduced arginine.

Manganese

Perhaps DMSO or other oxygen scavenger that works in the colon.

Might even need pred to first stop the inflammation, as much as possible.

Certain probiotics may help,don't know which ones.

Probably much more one can do,need to put more thought into it.

This might be why they can't find a specific IBD pathogen,and why it is idiopathic.

Its our own bacteria.


Please read all this info so you can understand what is going on.

Old Mike

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23677008



inflammation probably causing the problem

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23478337

levels in ibd

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7481547



host derived nitrate.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23393266



well what do you know,brings us full circle back to inos.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0207172102.htm



inhibitors

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us



arginase

http://www.healingwell.com/community...f=38&m=2607313

more

http://www.jimmunol.org/content/173/3/2109.full.pdf

You would want to be Manganese sufficient.



more bacteria are NO generators

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...8.03612.x/full

diversion colitis

http://link.springer.com/article/10....5217154#page-1

counter point

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...3780050115/pdf



NO from dysbiotic respiration of nitrate

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...08.03612.x/pdf



Nitrates in diet

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/90/1/1.full.pdf

http://www.nutritionj.com/content/8/1/16

http://www.inchem.org/documents/jecf...no/v50je07.htm



Moving on to nitrates and nitrite my old thread,more info.

http://www.healingwell.com/community...f=38&m=2503059



Oxygen scavengers

DMSO

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8493453

and UC dmso

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1350610

free radicals old stuff,takes some time to load

http://gut.bmj.com/content/34/7/865.full.pdf




trypsin and bacteria

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23840402

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21073731

I am always harping on protease.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trypsin



Something might be going on with certain probiotics

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...91584906004229



some NO chemistry

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1782592/



inos mucus

not sure what this might mean, brand new info

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23977158



another on dysbiosis

http://archive.ispub.com/journal/the....uC9lL8Q3.dpbs



selenium

http://link.springer.com/content/pdf...BF02034441.pdf

http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/bchm...c.2003.067.xml

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3277928/



Se with milk thistle and vitamin E .For reference



Larry Smarr video on gut bugs

http://lsmarr.calit2.net/multimedia?vid=2EMzInPwDDQ



AHR real important stuff-thread

http://www.healingwell.com/community...18976#m2818976

This seems to tie together many loose ends.
Quantification and Characterization of Mucosa-Associated and Intracellular Escherichia coli in Inflammatory Bowel Disease.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23989750

this may provide more insight as to what goes on after FT
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23093385

Last edited by mf15; 09-03-2013 at 08:10 AM. Reason: updated info
08-24-2013, 01:19 PM   #2
wildbill_52280
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
it would be cool to look into which species of healthy gut microbiota regulate immunity and inflammation, thereby providing more support for dysbiosis/reduced healthy diversity being the first cause of inflammation/autoimmunity characteristics, and the accumulation of pathogens as an effect of the initial dysbiosis/reduction in diversity in healthy bacteria.

i know the production of butyrate from butyrate producing bacteria plays a big role in regulating oxidative stress, which then has an influence on inflammation. but there are other molecules made by health bacteria that communicate to our bodies and tell them how to behave, and tell immune cells how to function.

dont have too much time to get into details, im not that sharp on them.
08-24-2013, 07:52 PM   #3
rollinstone
Senior Member
 
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yeah, after watching that larry marr thing it makes me so frustrated, why the F are they not measuring to that extent, if you could somehow kill the current population, then do FT therapy maybe the results would be more effective
08-31-2013, 08:07 PM   #4
David
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Naples, Florida
Thanks as always for sharing Mike. I appreciate it.
09-02-2013, 04:01 PM   #5
mf15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
I have added some new material to my first post,makes a more complete story.
The ecoli is just not supposed to be there in high numbers,plus what ever other nasty
bacteria that might act the same.
Old Mike
10-02-2014, 07:56 PM   #6
xeridea
Senior Member
 
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I don't know if this is the right home for this but I'm cross-posting this paper from an FMT group since some of the points it made seemed to fit.

http://users.unimi.it/~dmora/materia...otaHealthB.pdf
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