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11-30-2013, 08:41 PM   #1
Chlorinated
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: london, United Kingdom
Elemental diets pon the SCD?

Hi

If can only tolerate elemental drinks at the moment and am trying to comply with the scd. I may even build my own shake however there are same slight issues.

Firstly, I understand maltodextrin is not permitted on the scd. What about dried glucose syrup or rice syrup solids, are these permitted?

If not does anybody know of any elemental shakes that comply with the scd, if not the whole shake then at least the carbohydrate component as I can build the shake but am having trouble with the carbohydrate element.

Btw, maltodextrin feeds candida, however would it also feed h pylori?

Thanks
11-30-2013, 10:18 PM   #2
kiny
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When the SCD book was written, I don't think maltodextrin even existed. I don't use the SCD diet, but it's pretty simple, it just removes complex carbs.

So yes, dried glucose syrup is permitted according to the diet.

I have no idea what rice syrup solids are.
12-01-2013, 07:13 AM   #3
Kris_Ti
 
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This is the recipe from the SIBO.info site, she lists 4 different options for the carbohydrate mix:

Options for homemaking
Recipes for homemade elemental formulas are posted in the resources. Disclaimer: These recipes have not been formally tested, their safety, tolerability and effectiveness is unknown.

The following information is provided to clarify the components of elemental and semi-elemental formulations.

Protein
1. Amino Acid powder = Elemental formula
Can be expensive because so much is needed. The RDA for protein is 45-55 grams/day. 1 gram = 1000 mg.
Amino acids taste unpleasant.
2. Hydrolyzed whey, casein or fish protein powder = Semi-elemental formula.
Semi-elemental formulas have not been studied for the treatment of SIBO. Sensitivities to these proteins are possible.
Note- most whey contains small amounts of naturally occurring lactose.

Carbohydrate
1. Honey
2. Dextrose (glucose)
3. Glucose flavored liquid
4. Grape syrup (similar profile to honey)

Fat
1. Oil
Note- medium chain triglyceride oil (MCT &/or Coconut Oil) are recommended in cases of fat malabsorption, common in SIBO, as they absorb easily.

Vitamins & Minerals
1. Multivitamin/mineral that contains no fiber, food or anything other then synthetic nutrients.

Some options include Freeda SCD Multi, Klaire VitaSpectrum Powder, Pure Encapsulations Nutrient 950.

Avoid
Fiber, gums, thickeners, food items, or prebiotics.
Forms of protein and sugar not listed above.
Standard cleansing formulas such as Mediclear, Clearvite or Ultraclear are not elemental or semi-elemental formulas.
12-01-2013, 07:16 AM   #4
Kris_Ti
 
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I was considering using absorbplus - which while it does have a maltodextrin base the other ingredients look amazing and the creator suffers with an IBD herself. She mentions that while maltodextrin isn't ideal (and it does feed candida)... Depending on how bad your gut it is it might be a small price to pay short term and then when your gut is better you can go back and essentially 'clean up'... She does recommend a pretty good supplemental protocol to help avoid as much damage as possible while on the diet. You can actually get her IBD remission ebook + 2 samples for cheap on the site (just search absorb plus). I've read the ebook and am waiting for my samples in the mail... Still unsure if elemental is for me... Will wait and see how my antibiotics for SIBO work.

Her recipe for homemade elemental is this:
Basic Shake Mixture if not using Absorb Plus
 25 grams of whey protein (or protein alternate)
 50 grams of carbohydrate mix
 Daily multi-vitamin/mineral including trace minerals
 1 gram of L-Glutamine
 3 grams total of mixed amino acids in free-form
12-02-2013, 05:50 PM   #5
Chlorinated
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: london, United Kingdom
.

Carbohydrate
1. Honey
2. Dextrose (glucose)
3. Glucose flavored liquid
4. Grape syrup (similar profile to honey)
You say these comply with the scd diet but aren't they sugars at the end of the day that will feed bacteria? I mean I'm trying to heal my gut and also have h pylori so wouldn't any of the above sugars(carbs) feed the bacteria? Or do you think I can take it whilst also trying to kill the bacteria off?

Please let me have your opinions. Need to get started on something my body is so imbalanced im showing rapid tooth decay.
12-02-2013, 07:30 PM   #6
Kris_Ti
 
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I didn't say they were SCD legal - just less abrasive than maltodextrin perhaps! The recipe is straight from the SIBO.info site. As far as I know grape juice and honey are ok further into the SCD but during an elemental diet you need some form of energy... Depends if you want to make a short term sacrifice for long term results.

I haven't gone down this route yet as I cleared H Pylori with a round of Nexium and am currently taking herbals and antibiotic for SIBO. If this is unsuccessful I'll consider the elemental diet again.

Good luck!
12-02-2013, 07:33 PM   #7
Kris_Ti
 
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Search 'absorb plus' on google and get Jini's IBD remission book. I think you'll find it helpful in answering some of your questions - I'm no expert, I've just done a little bit of research when I was considering it.
12-07-2013, 09:30 PM   #8
Chlorinated
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: london, United Kingdom
Why does the sibo allow honey and grape syrup but not list fructose?

Also the diet for sibo is the scd diet and that says all fruits are permissible. So why doesn't it allow fructose for elemental? Anybody have ideas?

Thanks
12-08-2013, 05:19 AM   #9
Kris_Ti
 
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You'd need to do some reading on FODMAPS, SCD and GAPS diets and come your own conclusions. Fruit isn't permissible as an all in as much as you want... It's graduated and introduced in stages and is cooked at first.. Fructose is a highly fermentable type of sugar as fair as I know - as I said. Look into the FODMAPS diet and get the book breaking the vicious cycle and/or study the SCD lifestyle website. Good luck.
12-08-2013, 11:54 AM   #10
Chlorinated
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: london, United Kingdom
You'd need to do some reading on FODMAPS, SCD and GAPS diets and come your own conclusions. Fruit isn't permissible as an all in as much as you want... It's graduated and introduced in stages and is cooked at first.. Fructose is a highly fermentable type of sugar as fair as I know - as I said. Look into the FODMAPS diet and get the book breaking the vicious cycle and/or study the SCD lifestyle website. Good luck.
Well I'm looking into those things now however I am wondering if fructose isn't allowed in large quantities, then why is honey allowed as the carbohydrate component of an elemental diet - that would be large quantities.
12-08-2013, 12:52 PM   #11
Chlorinated
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: london, United Kingdom
Hey Chris, is this you posting in another forum?: http://www.ibsgroup.org/forums/topic...d-experiences/ ?
If so looks like you and me are on the same boat(adrenal fatigue, leaky gut, sibo, h pylori, mcs, etc).

1) id you try absorbplus in the end? I was also thinking of trying it however as far as I'm aware maltodextrin may prevent the healing of leaky gut however I also read someone say it stopped their leaky gut, maybe it's worth trying anyway?

2) Also in that link you list the sibo elemental recipe however say "3 - I'd still need a powdered carbohydrate source " . Why would this be the case assuming you take enough honey? Or can one not temporarily live on fructose as carbohydrate source?
This also brings me back to my previous question, why is honey aloud in sibo elemental considering that will be large amounts of fructose?

3) The total cost for 2 weeks elemental sibo would be similar to absorb plus:
Protein: hydrolysed whey (expensive)
Carb: Honey (cheap)
Fat: olive oil/chicken broth (cheap)
MultiVitamin, l glutamine etc (not sure how much).
I'd assume total cost is similar to the equivalent amount of absorbplus.

4) Are you unable to digest solid foods due to your leaky gut and is h pylori preventing you from taking stomach acid pills? If yes have you tried vegetarian digestive enzymes?

Anyway what are you eating at the moment and why didn't you try these things just to test and see the results? I think I might try them myself.
12-09-2013, 01:15 AM   #12
Kris_Ti
 
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1 - Absorb plus is disgusting! I tried a sample.

2 - Honey WOULD be the carbohydrate source if you chose to use it.

3 - I live in Australia so the postage is about the same cost as the treatment for absorb plus so making my own woulda been a cheaper option.

4 - I eat like this: http://bighealthventures.blogspot.co...ling-diet.html and take HCL and digestive enzymes as part of my gut healing protocol.

I'm not doing elemental as the sacrifice I'd make taking in all that sugar isn't worth the results. My issues are pain, bloating, fatigue, poor sleep, nausea and constipation. If I was diarrhea predominant I'd consider it. I'm also already underweight with adrenal fatigue... You have to be prepared to loss at least 10lbs or more.

I'm using diet, herbals and medication. You can read more here on my blog:

http://bighealthventures.blogspot.co...and-leaky.html

http://bighealthventures.blogspot.co...tion-plan.html

http://bighealthventures.blogspot.co...parasites.html

http://bighealthventures.blogspot.co...nt-enough.html

I use the IBS forum more than here so PM me over there if you want. But read all the links above as most of my thoughts and experiences are there x
12-09-2013, 05:33 AM   #13
Kris_Ti
 
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Also...

Watch this... http://scdlifestyle.com/2013/12/smal...s-and-testing/

Honey is a monosaccharide, monosaccharides are allowed on the SCD. Specific carbohydrates meaning 'specific' carbohydrates are allowed.
12-21-2013, 08:36 PM   #14
Chlorinated
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: london, United Kingdom


2. Hydrolyzed whey, casein or fish protein powder = Semi-elemental formula.
Semi-elemental formulas have not been studied for the treatment of SIBO. Sensitivities to these proteins are possible.
Note- most whey contains small amounts of naturally occurring lactose.
I take it anything that isn't amino acids is considered semi elemental? Suppose a formula contains only di and tripeptides, would that be considered elemental and would an advanced leaky gut be able to break that down into amino acids? Basically if I get something which is hydrolysed to di and tripeptides, would that be ok for healing and nourishment? What else would the body need to do in order to break it down into amino acids?

Does the body require amino acids or are di/tri peptides sufficient? Does the body require di/tripeptides i.e. if you are not getting these does it matter or not?

Thanks
12-22-2013, 12:12 AM   #15
Kris_Ti
 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia, Australia
All I know about elemental diets is in here:
http://shoppe.listentoyourgut.com/th...atel-thompson/ it's a $10 ebook.
12-22-2013, 08:42 AM   #16
Chlorinated
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: london, United Kingdom
Vitamins & Minerals
1. Multivitamin/mineral that contains no fiber, food or anything other then synthetic nutrients.

Some options include Freeda SCD Multi, Klaire VitaSpectrum Powder, Pure Encapsulations Nutrient 950.
Hi Kris, ok I will read the book however would you be able to tell me who recommended these multivitamins and if they are considered elemental products?
I urgently need to get an appropriate multivitamin because I am showing rapid tooth decay and black pockets inbetween gums so need to get some supplements fast before anything else.
12-22-2013, 10:51 AM   #17
Kris_Ti
 
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It's from the SIBO.info site as mentioned above.
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