Share Facebook


12-08-2013, 12:57 PM   #1
Chlorinated
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: london, United Kingdom
Elemental formula for GAPS diet?

Anybody know what this might look like?

I was reading her website and I think she says take protein broth and egg yolks? Is that correct and do you think that will give enough calories per day?

Actually egg is one of my first sensitivities so I doubt it will work however she if it doesn't what is she suggesting as the introductory diet because she goes from broth to egg yolk to stews however unless the broth and egg yolk give calories and do not cause reaction, I don't see how one can recover to the point that they will be able to tolerate other foods if they are sensitive to all foods.

Can somebody explain if I've misunderstood the introductory diet for the Gaps diet and how it should be?

Thanks
12-13-2013, 01:26 AM   #2
hugh
Senior Member
 
hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011

My Support Groups:
Anybody know what this might look like?
I believe there are SIX stages to the intro diet,

stage 1
Homemade meat or fish stock.
Homemade soup with your homemade meat or fish stock
Probiotic foods
Ginger tea with a little honey between meals

stage 2
Continue with Stage 1.
Add raw organic egg yolks
Add stews and casseroles made with meats and vegetables
Increase daily amount of homemade yogurt and kefir, if introduced.
Increase the amount of juice from sauerkraut, fermented vegetables or vegetable medley
Introduce fermented fish
Introduce homemade ghee

and so on to stage six then full GAPS diet.....
http://gapsdiet.com/INTRODUCTION_DIET.html
THIS IS THE WEB PAGE YOU WANT TO BE FAMILIAR WITH

Thera are many other sites with lists but i'm unsure how accurate they are.....
eg....
- http://www.wellfedhomestead.com/what...aps-intro-diet
- http://www.gapsinfo.com/gaps-introduction-diet/ - i thought this one the least confusing

recipes - just google gaps intro recipe
http://gapsaustralia.com.au/stock-and-soup-broth/
http://lifefoodjourney.blogspot.com....s-recipes.html

I was reading her website and I think she says take protein broth and egg yolks? Is that correct and do you think that will give enough calories per day?
Yes, broth and soup in stage 1, eggs added in stage 2. don't worry about calories, eating lots of calories and then shitting them out isn't going to help you

Actually egg is one of my first sensitivities so I doubt it will work however she if it doesn't what is she suggesting as the introductory diet because she goes from broth to egg yolk to stews however unless the broth and egg yolk give calories and do not cause reaction, I don't see how one can recover to the point that they will be able to tolerate other foods if they are sensitive to all foods.
Most people who are intolerant to eggs are intolerant to proteins in the egg white, some (a smaller proportion) are intolerant to yolks, very few are intolerant to both, so egg yolks are added in stage 2 if the intro diet and you obviously need to modify the diet if you cannot tolerate them.
Only fresh good quality organic eggs are recommended so go for the best you can afford.
As intestinal permeability is healed intolerance may resolve as the unwanted proteins are not being absorbed through the gut lining.

"-Food Allergies and In tolerances
People with food allergies and intolerances should go through the Introduction Diet in order to heal and seal their gut lining. The reason for allergies and food intolerances is so-called "leaky gut" when the gut lining is damaged by abnormal micro flora. Foods do not get the chance to be digested properly before they get absorbed through this damaged wall and cause the immune system to react to them. Many people try to identify which foods they react to. However, with damaged gut wall they are likely to absorb most of their foods partially digested, which may cause an immediate reaction or a delayed reaction (a day, a few days or even a couple of weeks later). As these reactions overlap with each other, you can never be sure what exactly you are reacting to on any given day. Testing for food allergies in notoriously unreliable: if one had enough resources to test twice a day for two weeks, they would find that they are "allergic" to everything they eat. As long as the gut wall is damaged and stays damaged, you can be juggling your diet forever removing different foods and never get anywhere. From my clinical experience it is best to concentrate on healing the gut wall with the Introduction Diet. Once the gut wall is healed, the foods will be digested properly before being absorbed, which will remove most food intolerances and allergies."

http://gapsdiet.com/INTRODUCTION_DIET.html


Can somebody explain if I've misunderstood the introductory diet for the Gaps diet and how it should be?
refer to the GAPS site and understand her instructions
http://gapsdiet.com/INTRODUCTION_DIET.html
-Following the Introduction Diet fully is essential for people with serious digestive symptoms:
-Probiotic foods are essential to introduce right from the beginning.
__________________
'Liberation can only be gained by practice, never by discussion'
SN Goenka

Last edited by hugh; 12-13-2013 at 01:57 AM.
12-13-2013, 10:35 AM   #3
Chlorinated
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: london, United Kingdom
Thanks for the reply Hugh.

In stage 1 it's impossible to sustain oneself with that(not enough protein), the person will starve/loose weight rapidly and even after a week the intestine won't heal to the point that that one can tolerate solid protein again. I'd say it would take a month of leaky gut rebuilding before one can tolerate solid protein again.

In stage 2, if one is NOT INTOLERANT to egg yolks, provided they eat enough egg yolks and assuming egg yolks require very little digestion then perhaps they will be able to sustain themselves on it. However I'm assuming egg yolks need to be digested like other proteins and are not really elemental?

Another way of putting it, is that do you think she is saying survive on egg yolks+fat+vegetable soup liquid(without solids) for a month until you can take solid protein again as is found in stage 2?

None of my doctors suggested an elemental diet with egg yolks neither is it mentioned in the sibo elemental recipe(they say use aminos or hydro protein) neither do I find any other information online regarding the mentioned diet online.
12-13-2013, 04:34 PM   #4
hugh
Senior Member
 
hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011

My Support Groups:
In stage 1 it's impossible to sustain oneself with that(not enough protein), the person will starve/loose weight rapidly and even after a week the intestine won't heal to the point that that one can tolerate solid protein again. I'd say it would take a month of leaky gut rebuilding before one can tolerate solid protein again.
Dr Cambell-McBride recommends 3-5 days on each stage, depending on how you feel, and taking a step backwards if you feel that you have rushed things.
Soups made with bone marrow, fish and meat stock are very nutritious....
From the stage 1 intro diet.....
" Do not use commercially available soup stock granules or bullion cubes, they are highly processed and are full of detrimental ingredients."
" To make good meat stock you need joints, bones, a piece of meat on the bone, a whole chicken, giblets from chicken, goose or duck, whole pigeons, pheasants or other inexpensive meats. It is essential to use bones and joints, as they provide the healing substances, not so much the muscle meats."
"Strip off all the soft tissues from the bones as best as you can to later add to soups or encourage your patient to eat all the soft tissues on the bones."
"The gelatinous soft tissues around the bones and the bone marrow provide some of the best healing remedies for the gut lining and the immune system; your patient needs to consume them with every meal. "

Stage 2 introduces stews and casseroles as well as eggs, so it's only 3-5 days on soups (and these soups contain bone marrow and soft tissue) so there is NO issue about starving.

Thousands have done it so i wouldn't get too bunched up about it.
If you feel it is not for you then try another diet.

“On the First Stage the most drastic symptoms of abdominal pain, diarrhea and constipation will quickly subside.”
“If you suspect an allergy to any particular food, before introducing it do the Sensitivity Test.”

In stage 2, if one is NOT INTOLERANT to egg yolks, provided they eat enough egg yolks and assuming egg yolks require very little digestion then perhaps they will be able to sustain themselves on it. However I'm assuming egg yolks need to be digested like other proteins and are not really elemental?
Gaps intro is NOT an elemental diet. It uses easily digested, well cooked foods, but it is not 'elemental'
Another way of putting it, is that do you think she is saying survive on egg yolks+fat+vegetable soup liquid(without solids) for a month until you can take solid protein again as is found in stage 2?
Dr Cambell-McBride recommends 3-5 days on each stage, depending on how you feel, and taking a step backwards if you feel that you have rushed things.
stage 2 introduces stews and casseroles as well as eggs, so it's only 3-5 days on soups (and these soups contain bone marrow and soft tissue) so there is NO issue about starving.

I know it can be a bit daunting but i'd say give it a go.
It is actually very easy once you get used to the simplicity of it.
I went from eating 5 meals a day and loosing weight to SCD (similar to gaps) and started gaining weight rapidly.
It's not about how much you eat, it's about how much you digest.

Once again, study the web page, you seem to be missing important bits of information (although the 3-5 days is lifted off another site and some other bits of important information may not be on the website, it's still a pretty good free resource).
Maybe buy the book?

It won't work if you don't follow the instructions and i'd hate it if you were one of those few who come back and start ranting against the diet because ”It didn't work even though I almost followed it to the letter except for the toast and the candy and the vegetable oil and the.......”

Last edited by hugh; 12-13-2013 at 05:11 PM.
12-13-2013, 07:43 PM   #5
Chlorinated
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: london, United Kingdom
Gaps intro is NOT an elemental diet. It uses easily digested, well cooked foods, but it is not 'elemental'
Yes I did read about the gaps diet and I thought it was clearly not elemental, however somebody on another forum told me there was an elemental version(hence I started thinking about the egg yolks and broth) and hence the question. Never mind.

Hugh, regarding the leaky gut, do you know if it is just the undigested proteins that cause the leaky gut not to heal or is it also undigested fat and vegetables. My doctor told me to take pre-digested proteins, fat as normal however it occurred to me that although the proteins are broken down this is not the case with the fat. Therefore wouldn't the fat still cause problems?

In the case of elemental diets, when they add olive oil, coconut oil etc, do you know if they break it down somehow?

Thanks
12-13-2013, 11:44 PM   #6
hugh
Senior Member
 
hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011

My Support Groups:
Yes I did read about the gaps diet and I thought it was clearly not elemental, however somebody on another forum told me there was an elemental version(
sorry, no idea, Intro diet is designed to be easily digested and healing,

regarding the leaky gut, do you know if it is just the undigested proteins that cause the leaky gut not to heal or is it also undigested fat and vegetables. My doctor told me to take pre-digested proteins, fat as normal however it occurred to me that although the proteins are broken down this is not the case with the fat. Therefore wouldn't the fat still cause problems?
The proteins and fats do not cause or aggravate the leaky gut.
- It is (in this theory (and I agree)) the 'bad' bacteria that cause the leaky gut.
It is the bacteria in the intestine that breaks down carbs, and there is plenty of research to show that what carbs we eat will affect which bacteria we have,
Fats and proteins are not feeding the 'bad' bacteria so they do not interfere with the healing process (– according to this theory)

The leaky gut allows the proteins to be absorbed before they are properly digested, causing a reaction to said proteins, but the proteins (and fats) are NOT causing or aggravating the leaky gut

Here, in oversimplified cartoon detail, and a few great explanations....
http://pecanbread.com/p/scdscience2.html

You may find you can reintroduce some carbs after 6 month/a year, whatever but not processed foods or wheat.
-I personally think it is not ALL complex carbs that are the problem but it is better to follow the diet 100% until you regain health before experimenting with reintroducing carbs - i eat a medium-carb paleo diet (with cheese and white rice) - more like 'Perfect Health Diet' than 'old-school' paleo, and find it works for me. Tubers (sweet potato, taro, casava, potatoes) are paleo but not GAPS so stick to the diet you have chosen.
12-15-2013, 09:42 AM   #7
Chlorinated
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: london, United Kingdom
I suppose there is many theories around the causes to leaky gut and doctors/researchers differ amongst themselves on it.

The leaky gut allows the proteins to be absorbed before they are properly digested, causing a reaction to said proteins, but the proteins (and fats) are NOT causing or aggravating the leaky gut
Make sense in theory, however it makes me wonder, suppose somebody has chicken soup(no vegetables just meat, fat and water), if they have advanced leaky gut and they eat this they get symptoms due to inability to break down the protein. However if they take stomach acid then they can break it down and start to recover.

If the protein indigestion isn't aggravating leaky gut, then shouldn't we expect the gut to start healing(since it isn't being aggravated) without one having to take the stomach acid supplement?
12-17-2013, 03:59 AM   #8
hugh
Senior Member
 
hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011

My Support Groups:
Chlorinated, i am unsure what stomach acid suppliment you are refering to?
I do not think there is any such supplement in the GAPS diet or maybe i missed it
12-17-2013, 09:25 AM   #9
Chlorinated
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: london, United Kingdom
Chlorinated, i am unsure what stomach acid suppliment you are refering to?
I do not think there is any such supplement in the GAPS diet or maybe i missed it
Sorry hugh, I wasn't referring to the gap diet rather your comment about leaky gut and undigested proteins NOT aggravating the condition.

I was basically saying, if one takes chicken soup(no vegetables, just water and chicken) with a leaky gut that cannot break down proteins properly, there guts do not start to heal. However if they take stomach acid pills(which break the proteins down properly with only chicken soup as I have mentioned they do start to recover. The only difference is that in the first case proteins are not broken down and the second proteins are broken down. However you have said the large proteins do not aggravate the condition. If so how do you explain the above and shouldn't we then expect the gut to heal when eating large protein particles?

Thanks
12-17-2013, 06:18 PM   #10
hugh
Senior Member
 
hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011

My Support Groups:
Sorry hugh, I wasn't referring to the gap diet rather your comment about leaky gut and undigested proteins NOT aggravating the condition.

I was basically saying, if one takes chicken soup(no vegetables, just water and chicken) with a leaky gut that cannot break down proteins properly, there guts do not start to heal.
No, leaky gut means that molecules not normally absorbed can pass through the intestinal barrier, it does not mean that healing cannot take place.
Healing will take place once two conditions are met, no more toxic foods and no more complex cards (by this theory, I think it's more complicated in that some carbs are ok and others aren't but that's my theory not GAPS theory).
Well cooked simple foods make digestion easier, that's all
Two separate issues

However if they take stomach acid pills(which break the proteins down properly with only chicken soup as I have mentioned they do start to recover.
Not sure on your reasoning there?

The only difference is that in the first case proteins are not broken down and the second proteins are broken down. However you have said the large proteins do not aggravate the condition. If so how do you explain the above and shouldn't we then expect the gut to heal when eating large protein particles?

Thanks
I would expect gut healing without added stomach acid if the diet is followed (in most cases, and if it doesn't work there are other additional steps that may help (nuts, dairy, honey, even AIP (auto-immune protocol palei) but don't go there unless basic GAPS fails
Reply

Thread Tools


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:06 PM.
Copyright 2006-2017 Crohnsforum.com