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Crohn's Disease Forum » Books, Multimedia, Research & News » MAP Vaccine Ready for Human Trials - Could be Used for Crohn's


 
07-26-2014, 07:34 PM   #361
rollinstone
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That's got nothing to do with acknowledging scientific proof, which is what koch's postulates is, the scientific criteria required in prooving causation. And seriously, don't get me started on what a load of bollocks the FDA is, they're criminals backed by richer criminals, (and I'm making reference to countless people that have died of cancers or kids with epilepsy that could have been avoided had the FDA had really cared or looked at the evidence that was so plain to see with benefits of extracted marijuana oil...) FDA are in bed with big pharma and have been for decades. They are far more interested in money than your wellbeing.
07-26-2014, 07:43 PM   #362
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If they even acknowledge it it could be taken as endorsement. It's easy for us to bray about these things but their livelihoods are on the line whenever they open their mouth on anything vaguely related to medicine.
07-26-2014, 08:29 PM   #363
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Sorry, I could agree with you but then I feel like we'd both be wrong, the only livelihoods on the line are those who are really sick and can't get what they need, it's been this way for a long time. I'm not saying they go and legalise anything with anecdotal success stories, obviously they have to cover their ass, but things that have already had studies done and shown to be effective and ALOT safer than what pharmaceuticals are currently available... Go and watch Dallas buyer's club if you can be bothered, that's a prime example of what's still going on... It's fking sad really, It's morally disgusting.
07-26-2014, 08:38 PM   #364
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Sorry, I could agree with you but then I feel like we'd both be wrong, the only livelihoods on the line are those who are really sick and can't get what they need, it's been this way for a long time. I'm not saying they go and legalise anything with anecdotal success stories, obviously they have to cover their ass, but things that have already had studies done and shown to be effective and ALOT safer than what pharmaceuticals are currently available... Go and watch Dallas buyer's club if you can be bothered, that's a prime example of what's still going on... It's fking sad really, It's morally disgusting.
I'm with you. They are all morally bankrupt. They have their eyes on one thing. MONEY. That's all the United States is about.
07-26-2014, 09:30 PM   #365
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I'm glad you understand the souls of us medical researchers so well.

It's not like we have loved ones who get sick too.
07-26-2014, 10:15 PM   #366
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Nobody said you didn't, what you're trying to argue is that the FDA put their "livelihoods" on the line and what I'm saying is tell that to the ghosts of people who have died when the FDA conviscated medication that was keeping them alive because there hadn't been "trials" on it. I have a scientific mind I understand the importance of testing things but take marijuana for example, do you have any idea how long people have known that it can cure cancer for? Big pharma tried and are still trying their damnedest to restrict it's availability, and they did it largely through it not being passed by the FDA. Now on to the relevance of this thread, if you're a medical researcher you'll be aware of koch's postulates, I don't come on these forums to argue but when something's met the scientific criteria to prove "proof of causation" the case is closed. They can't deny it anymore, it's like saying the earth is flat.
07-27-2014, 03:21 PM   #367
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With regard to the above posts - I am a businessman, and totally agree - these companies are in it for the profits. If Crohn's and other autoimmune diseases get cured, Abbvie (maker of Humira) becomes completely bankrupt (over 50% of their profits are derived from this one medication).

In my personal opinion, you won't see these companies (the large ones with the resources) delve into alternative therapies or support new ones until the patents on their existing drugs run out and generic manufacturers can make duplicates for cheap (metrandolzione (SP?) vs. Flagyl, substitute vs. vicoden)

With all that being said, the power, once again, must be derived from the people. The only way to beat this is to start demanding alternative cures through crowd source funding - unfortunately, those suffering must support the efforts of the people who really want to help (Professor Taylor). What I am saying is...let's stop focusing on the bad, and start focusing on the good, and figure out a plan on how we are going to accomplish the funding for this study and vaccine. I'm willing, open, and will help in any way....can we organize a nationwide fundraiser (and make sure not a cent of it goes to the CCFA who's backed by big pharma?). Can we push our family members to make small 25 - 50 dollar donations?
07-27-2014, 03:43 PM   #368
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Johnson & Johnson makes Remicade (second most profitable drug in the world) and they are investing in microbiome biotechs.

http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2014/0...icrobiome-era/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-your-stomach/
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My 13-year-old daughter was diagnosed with Crohn's 12/2013, via endoscopy, colonoscopy biopsy, and MRE.

After four months of little improvement with Pentasa and Prednisone, we tried the Specific Carbohydrate Diet. Almost overnight, all the symptoms resolved. Currently off all meds. Bloodwork is completely normal.

Last edited by lbligh; 07-27-2014 at 03:46 PM. Reason: Another link
07-27-2014, 04:12 PM   #369
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Johnson & Johnson makes Remicade (second most profitable drug in the world) and they are investing in microbiome biotechs.
I don't see microbiome biotechs providing a cure for Crohn's before the patents on Remicade run out next year. The original patent was due to expire this year, but they got an extension.

"Remicade, the autoimmune disease blockbuster, generated more than USD 7bn in worldwide revenue in 2012." And people wonder why there are obstacles to raising $5M to prove a vaccine that could cure Crohn's?
07-27-2014, 05:44 PM   #370
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http://jcm.asm.org/content/41/7/2915.full.pdf

Here is a study using proper PCR methods that detected the mycobacterium in 92% of Crohns patients vs 26% of control.



Skin issues are prevalent. There's pictures where the Cows lose the color of their hyde. Also, we are completely different animals to cows, just as we are completely different animals to mice. The disease may effect one animal differently than another, and vice versa.
Hi Thank You I have read the article. In the control group witn Non-IBD, 9 patients tested positive for MAP, all of them had some colonic, digestive issues such as IBS, colon cancer or simply diarrhea, etc. How does the Koch postulate is sure digestive disease in these goats is more of a crohns than an IBS or orther digestive conditions? Were ulcers seen, granulomas?

I am still not convinced that the disease other animals develop wether in their natural environnement or in the case of Koch's postulate is the same as CD. Just in humans, UC is so similar to CD (I have UC-like crohn's), yet they are not the same and eventhough they respond to the same drugs, they respond differently to Enteral diets, GI Dr John Hunter LOFFLEX diet and Dr Jean Seignalet hypotoxic diet.

It would be interesting to measure the MAP activity of a patient when his CD is active and measure it AFTER he goes into NATURAL remission without a medication such as immuno-supressant. has this been done? Some people DO go into remission periods without any treatment or lifestyle change.

It is known that the gut is populated with higher amount of bad bacteria when the disease is active and that it comes back to a normal level when the disease enters remission. This is the case with other chronic inflammatory diseases such as RA for instance. On the MAP website, it is mentionned immuno-supressant help make slow down MAP proliferation. But, what about all those patients who go into natural remission without immuno-supressants and who continue to eat meat and drink dairies and contaminated map water? They prolly too come back to bacteria normal levels without medical intervention when in remission...

To me, it is still not clear that MAP is causative. I still feel MAP is associated with CD and happens to be there and take advantage of a already weak host to proliferate, just like c-difficile would do. I think, the gut flora is already disrupted since a long time in humans and in animals in the western world, and then MAP or other bacteria have wide open door to invade and proliferate potentially causing more or different damages (super-infection?). some predisposed individual, who eat bad food such as most animals here (who predominantly eat GMO corn and soy), and us too who eat too much food which does not protect our gut flora (only vegetables, fruits and fiber are protective and they are extremly lacking in western diet), combined with the high amount of antibacterial agents used for prevention in animal industry and us eating that meat and milk and water FILLED with antibacteria, inevitabily disrupt gut flora, gut permeability and then most of us go on to develop chronic illnesses of all kinds at some point in life. Most cancers are also in the same bag of chronic conditions which develops over decades. Without proper protection and overuse of antibiotics in meat and possibly water, our colon gets weak in the western world with all sorts of colon diseases, thus we are more at risk of being targetted as hosts for bugs. Therfore I still think MAP is associated rather than causative, unless I read more convincing evidence of course. I definately encourage this research and trial, anything that is not detrimental to our body, like we are used to, I encourage greatly and I am thinking of donating. I have no doubt anti-Map vaccine can help as a treatment, as regular antibiotics help too in reducing symptoms of CD and putting some cases in remission, but to cure? In the long term? I have read in the thread or in the MAP website that the vaccine has been tested on humans with CD and it worked for some cases who tolerated it... Am I correct? Could I have the link please? For how long was the remission maintained after treatment? so many questions..., but interesting.

I think it is important to remain open to all possibilities when searching for an answer. being close minded prevents people for experimenting and exploring and getting closer to a solution. It is clear many people and researchers in the FDA have hidden agendas and it is true pharmaceuticals and pesticides and GMO Magnas sleep with the gvmt. Those companies are extremly rich and they finance extensively those parties $$$ in different legal or illegal ways. In return, the political leaders have no other choice but to push the machiavelic plans and stop any controversial issues raised by other independant researchers in search for morality and safety that contredicts the products of their contributors. Most researchers who studied the effect of GMO for instance have lost their job or subventions in university settings. University researchers lose their job if they start to discover things that are not pleasing to the eye of the MAFIA. Thats not what I call research. thats what I call a CRIME, CORRUPTION. The first quality a researcher should have or any scientitist should have is CURIOSITY and desire for exploration and thats what should be encouraged. Outcast with strong ideology and character with new ideas or proposition are often being severly rejected by the core, the order, the syndicate. The human being is the same since its creation... That rejection and shut up process is not scientific, it's ANTI-SCIENTIFIC!!! Rejecting ideas and findings without explorating it reasonably is primitive and not part of the true scientific mind.

two years ago, on a trip in India, Hillary Clinton was not happy and warned Indian agricultural and health Minister about ruining the chances of better economy in India after he decided to suspend the plantation of ''GMO-Round up-ready Monsanto eggplants'' due to solid doubts of carcinogenic effects of GMO and pesticides raised by Dr Seralini in a 2 year study on rats... Seralini has been violently criticized, his article has been retracted-taken off in the scientific journal it was first published in. But after a consortium of more than 300 scientists world wide who signed a petition, another journal finally decided to publish the study again very recently.
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''UC-like Crohn's'' since 2001:
on: 25mg 6-MP (purinethol)+ B12 shots
minor hands/wrists chronic arthritis since 01/2013

Diet: ''IBD-AID'' : http://www.nutritionj.com/content/13/1/5+ organic food only
suppl Curcuminoid extract, Inulin,psyllium, apple pectin, Vitamin D

past meds:
pred 50mg, 5-ASA, cortifoam, Imuran (failed) Purinethol (success) methotrexate (failed CD and arthritis).
07-27-2014, 06:12 PM   #371
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It would be interesting to measure the MAP activity of a patient when his CD is active and measure it AFTER he goes into NATURAL remission without a medication such as immuno-supressant. has this been done?
It hasn't been done because until very recently it was very hard to accurately test for MAP.

I think it is important to remain open to all possibilities when searching for an answer. being close minded prevents people for experimenting and exploring and getting closer to a solution.
I completely agree. If you believe the MAP theory is wrong, you should still support further research so that we can prove conclusively it is wrong. If MAP is not the cause, it significantly narrows the field of research for a cure for Crohn's. The only way we lose, is if the research is not done.
07-27-2014, 06:18 PM   #372
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Hello all, new to the forum and to the disease as my son was just recently diagnosed. I have been looking into all the possible treatments and am intrigued by the vaccine idea. I am not quite clear though about the MAP test, or lack of a test. Dr. Harmon-Taylor needs money to commercialize his test? Isn't Redhill also developing a test? Does anyone here know if these tests are the same? I have also seen the name of Dr. Nasser in Florida who has also developed a test ( or not ). And where does he fit in with the MAP theory? Sorry if I seem a bit dense, but I have read so much about Crohn's for the last two weeks and everything is beginning to blur. Hopefully some patient person can set me straight. Thanks!
07-27-2014, 11:21 PM   #373
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With all that being said, the power, once again, must be derived from the people. The only way to beat this is to start demanding alternative cures through crowd source funding - unfortunately, those suffering must support the efforts of the people who really want to help (Professor Taylor). What I am saying is...let's stop focusing on the bad, and start focusing on the good, and figure out a plan on how we are going to accomplish the funding for this study and vaccine. I'm willing, open, and will help in any way....can we organize a nationwide fundraiser (and make sure not a cent of it goes to the CCFA who's backed by big pharma?). Can we push our family members to make small 25 - 50 dollar donations?
YES WE CAN! I have raised €6,500 (8,750 USD) for this vaccine in two months! From relatives, friends, colleagues, friends of friends, parents of colleagues, you name it. We are 7 individual fundraisers at the moment, "Crohn's MAP Vaccine heroes", but we would need MORE people to get activated and donate and ask their loved ones to donate too, for themselves!
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*Son (9 years) with severe Crohn's diagnosed at the age of 26 months, currently UC or Crohn's colitis
*Current mediacation: IVIG, Humira, Azathpriorine, Eusaprim
(Tested but failed: Modulen IBD, Neocate advance, Budenofalk, Remicade, Azathpriorine, MTX, Jerusalem cocktail, cycklosporine, pentasa,...)
07-28-2014, 03:51 AM   #374
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Hello all, new to the forum and to the disease as my son was just recently diagnosed. I have been looking into all the possible treatments and am intrigued by the vaccine idea. I am not quite clear though about the MAP test, or lack of a test. Dr. Harmon-Taylor needs money to commercialize his test? Isn't Redhill also developing a test? Does anyone here know if these tests are the same? I have also seen the name of Dr. Nasser in Florida who has also developed a test ( or not ). And where does he fit in with the MAP theory? Sorry if I seem a bit dense, but I have read so much about Crohn's for the last two weeks and everything is beginning to blur. Hopefully some patient person can set me straight. Thanks!
very understandable Mummy bear.
good for you for looking into it…
There is no 'map bacteria test' currently…well, there isnt one that is available to the masses, but dr hermon taylor and others have the ability to test for it in resected gut tissues….(gut that has been operated on)….You are right, Redhill have a human trial for anti biotics that are targetting at the MAP bacteria and that is happening right now, with Dr Naser in the USA.

So there is Dr Hermon Tylor and Dr Naser working on a clinical diagnostic test that will enable patients to be tested for having a MAP bacteria infection, until now, this has been unavailable die to the difficult nature of the bacteria.

Dr Naser, Dr Borody and others are younger than Dr Hermon-Taylor…it is Dr Hermon-Taylor who is the 'elder' and the younger doctors are following his and Dr Crohn's lead.

Hope that helps….

Good luck with your son - getting the inflammation under control is paramount….
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diagnosed 1994 aged 18. 3 surgeries. Remicade is my drug.

I believe this could cure crohns disease.

-Dr John Hermon -Taylor is trying to cure Crohn's disease.
07-28-2014, 04:36 AM   #375
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And Professor Hermon-Taylor is the one currently working on a vaccine for Crohn's which can be used to treat infection as well as preventing it - hence the current appal for funding:

www.crohnsmapvaccine.com

Extensive tests in mice and cattle have shown the vaccine to be powerful and safe.

Please read the FAQ's page for more info.
07-28-2014, 04:46 AM   #376
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Please read the FAQ's page for more info.
The FAQs are an excellent source of information which are constantly being updates as new questions, mostly from Crohn's patients, are being raised.
07-28-2014, 05:35 PM   #377
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I just donated. I also understand the cynicism about big pharma, but I also have faith that a couple of smart scientist and/or investors will get involved not simply because it is morally the right thing to do, or because they are personally involved in some way with this horrible disease, but they are going to realize that a "cure" will also bring them wealth. There are small start ups working on a pill form of good poop ... and others will do the same for other treatments. But a lot of times of course, there just isn't enough money. I am including a link to a TED talk that discusses funding of new treatments, with the hope that it might prove useful. http://www.ted.com/talks/roger_stein...earch#t-657496
07-28-2014, 08:25 PM   #378
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I wish they could figure out a way for U.S. donors to get a tax break. Maybe that is in the works. (Our family made a rather large donation regardless.)
07-28-2014, 09:50 PM   #379
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there must be a way to get a tax break if you are in the US and donate to a charity in the UK???? Surely????

maybe there is a tax expert on this forum? Might be worth asking……?

thank you for helping.
i do hope it is the cure~!
07-28-2014, 10:10 PM   #380
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What do you all think about the chances of having any traction with the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation? They have a particular interest in "ENTERIC AND DIARRHEAL DISEASES". That's a pretty spot-on lay-man's description of IBD as I see it.
07-28-2014, 10:13 PM   #381
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Definitely worth giving them a call, but as far as I know they can only do charities... But yeah, definitely worth a try.
07-28-2014, 11:05 PM   #382
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not sure they donate to countries like England, i think they are more interested in helping third world countries? Their website is very very good, you can see all the information there as to who they might support. I remember looking at it and reached a dead end.
07-28-2014, 11:07 PM   #383
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Yes, I was wondering about the same thing. I am also thinking about places like Kaiser , ie HMO 's. I should think they would have a financial incentive to find a true remedy. I have never, ever tried to raise money and I do not want to make a mistake and blow any chances, but I am willing to approach these organizations or help someone who perhaps has more experience.
07-29-2014, 02:47 AM   #384
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What do you all think about the chances of having any traction with the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation? They have a particular interest in "ENTERIC AND DIARRHEAL DISEASES". That's a pretty spot-on lay-man's description of IBD as I see it.

We have looked at it in the past, unfortunately, the foundation does not fund "Projects addressing health problems in developed countries": http://www.gatesfoundation.org/How-W...We-Do-Not-Fund
07-29-2014, 07:47 AM   #385
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I am including a link to a TED talk that discusses funding of new treatments, with the hope that it might prove useful. http://www.ted.com/talks/roger_stein...earch#t-657496
Mommabear,
Speaking as someone who has worked in finance, this is a superb talk! I sent you a PM with my email address if you want to discuss further.
07-29-2014, 10:36 AM   #386
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Surely crohns affects people, and will affect people increasingly in the third world?
07-29-2014, 10:49 AM   #387
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Surely crohns affects people, and will affect people increasingly in the third world?
I took it to mean that they were interested in funding health issues that exclusively affected the third world
07-30-2014, 05:36 AM   #388
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Just thought I would add this info from Korea.
Johne's first discovered in herds 1967.
Look at the low but rising IBD incidence rates from 1986 on, cant find
older data. MAP can have long incubation period, but you don't need an actual
infection, the MAP antigen is everywhere.
Faroe Islands have the highest incidence rate of IBD in the world, I wonder
why. Too bad cannot find, Johne's disease statistics for Faroe Islands.
But it was/is a colony of Denmark, Denmark high in IBD and Johne's.
Old Mike
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22749233

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17941073

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...6/#!po=1.92308
07-30-2014, 11:25 AM   #389
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I am looking into setting up a non-profit in the US for tax purposes for folks living here who donate to the vaccine, unless someone has either already done it, or is in the process
( which I would appreciate knowing about, so please let me know)

I think even if this vaccine does not work, if everyone who has Crohn's or knows someone who suffers from it, donated simply a dollar or two ( or pound or euro )we could then move this thing forward and know for sure. For the doubters, they could say, "see I told you so" and if it did work we could all celebrate. I do not understand the resistance, particularly if there is even a hair thin possibility that it might work. What is one dollar, or pound or euro ? Alone, nothing, but amassed maybe permanent remission.
07-30-2014, 11:44 AM   #390
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I so agree Mommabear. We need to put this to bed and find out once and for all if this is the treatment we have all been waiting for. A few pounds/ dollars/ euros from those affected or relatives/ friends/ colleagues of those affected would see us well on the way. If it proves to be the success it is expected to be, surely we all need it to be available as soon as is humanly possible.

www.crohnsmapvaccine.com
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