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05-23-2009, 03:26 PM   #1
mikeyarmo
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Article on Hookworm therapy for Crohn's Disease

Here is an article talking about hookworm therapy for people affected by Crohn's Disease. I have no idea how this was ever thought of as being suitable to treat any illness, but it is interesting for sure!

Hookwork treatment for Crohn's Disease
05-24-2009, 04:06 PM   #2
ekspain
 
I have ulcerative colitis and am taking Helminths TSO1000 at the moment. I was taking 2500 before. I'm doing very well. Its really the only thing that helped but its EXPENSIVE!
05-28-2009, 06:44 PM   #3
MINI Cooper
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Yes, I think I may try this if/when Remi stops working for me.
It's not that disgusting. We have billions of organisms living in
our bodies already.
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05-29-2009, 05:29 AM   #4
ekspain
 
yeah remicade's gotta suck. I'd rather take harmless parasites that could put me into remission. The cost, however, for them little critters- is quite high.
300 Euros min. Although, Aspelia pharma looks promising, there is no product as of yet. I believe.
05-29-2009, 07:11 PM   #5
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What would be ideal is if they could figure out what these guys secrete
that calms the immune system down. if they could bottle and sell that,
it'd be gold! Also, the method of getting the critters into the body is no
good. So far I hear you have to put them to your skin as a patch on your
arm, then they travel to into your lungs, where you cough, and then they
get swallowed where they get to your tummy, finally. Why can't I just
swallow them and avoid the whole creepy lung thing?
05-29-2009, 07:13 PM   #6
katiesue1506
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Agreed Mini...
05-30-2009, 01:52 PM   #7
D Bergy
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I would bet quite a bit of money that the Hook Worms, by one mechanism or another, just reduce problem bacteria causing symptoms. I am 90% certain they do not directly affect the immune system.

This theory is far fetched in my opinion, and is pretty much a stand alone theory that has no proposed mechanism or historical precedence.

I think the relatively straight forward explanation that the Hook Worms compete or consume these unhelpful bacteria seems far more likely.

It is all just based on probability, but common explanations are more frequent than uncommon ones in real life.

Dan
05-30-2009, 03:35 PM   #8
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MINI Cooper said:
What would be ideal is if they could figure out what these guys secrete
that calms the immune system down. if they could bottle and sell that,
it'd be gold! Also, the method of getting the critters into the body is no
good. So far I hear you have to put them to your skin as a patch on your
arm, then they travel to into your lungs, where you cough, and then they
get swallowed where they get to your tummy, finally. Why can't I just
swallow them and avoid the whole creepy lung thing?
Thats not true sista! I drink the stuff, and I have no side effects. No coughing etc...thats all propaganda by the medical co. who want to make money off of people taking their meds forever...
The only thing is, I don't know if I can last through summer, yet, without a flare up. That will be THE test. If I can get through to Sep. without any issues, I'll be a true believer. But as of yet, I've had little or no symptoms since December, and I've stopped all meds. So....lets wait and see.
05-30-2009, 04:01 PM   #9
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D Bergy said:
I would bet quite a bit of money that the Hook Worms, by one mechanism or another, just reduce problem bacteria causing symptoms. I am 90% certain they do not directly affect the immune system.

This theory is far fetched in my opinion, and is pretty much a stand alone theory that has no proposed mechanism or historical precedence.

I think the relatively straight forward explanation that the Hook Worms compete or consume these unhelpful bacteria seems far more likely.

It is all just based on probability, but common explanations are more frequent than uncommon ones in real life.

Dan
According to the article, it DOES affect the immune system.
And people in third world countries where these parasites are common,
do not get these digestive diseases.
So it seems plausible to me.
05-30-2009, 04:04 PM   #10
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Ekspain said:
Thats not true sista! I drink the stuff, and I have no side effects. No coughing etc...thats all propaganda by the medical co. who want to make money off of people taking their meds forever...
The only thing is, I don't know if I can last through summer, yet, without a flare up. That will be THE test. If I can get through to Sep. without any issues, I'll be a true believer. But as of yet, I've had little or no symptoms since December, and I've stopped all meds. So....lets wait and see.

But that is how the worms travel to the gut:

"Within 3-5 days, the larvae break through into alveoli and travel up the ciliary escalator from the lungs into the bronchi, the trachea, and the pharynx. Upon reaching the pharynx, larvae are swallowed and gain access to the GI tract. Once in the GI tract, worms attach to the wall of the intestine and begin to feed on the blood of the host."

"Pulmonary complaints such as cough or wheezing are generally less common than in A lumbricoides infection."

-http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/788488-overview
05-30-2009, 04:50 PM   #11
D Bergy
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I would have lost a large sum of money. I looked into it further and this is a common characteristic of parasites. They prevent detection and destruction by the immune response by chemically altering the environment.

That makes sense to me, and this hiding ability is also present in some bacteria as well.

I still do not buy the part about toning down a hyperactive immune response to normal bacteria. It would knock down the immune response and I am sure that is helpful symptom wise. The part I do not agree with is that the immune system is hyperactive. I believe it is continuously trying to kill bacteria that is not beneficial to the person. It is not able to kill it and it results in a constant inflammatory response.

You can get relief by either of two methods. Lower the immune response, and prevent reaction to the bacteria, increase the immune response enough so it can kill the offending bacteria.

It explains why both drugs that dampen the immune response work, and why Low Dose Naltrexone also works. It also explains why both type of drugs can work most of the time and yet will not work in some people.

Boosting the immune system has to result in an immune response strong enough to allow destruction of the bacteria. If it does not, then you just have a stronger ineffective immune response which would not help and may even be worse.

Contrarily, if the immune dampening drug does not weaken the immune response enough, it will still respond to the bacteria ineffectively as it has before. You may be slightly better if it allows for less inflammation. I would guess that is why it works in the first place.

The long term effect is that now you have less immune system ability to rid yourself of the secondary problem of the bacteria. Maybe the other bacteria present will hold it in check, maybe it won't. Who knows what happens in the world of bacteria?

I think it is better to rid yourself of the bacteria in the long run. The medical consensus does not attempt to do this. There are some gastro researchers that are trying this approach, but they are in the minority.

Dan
05-30-2009, 06:39 PM   #12
Ekspain
 
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MINI Cooper said:
But that is how the worms travel to the gut:

"Within 3-5 days, the larvae break through into alveoli and travel up the ciliary escalator from the lungs into the bronchi, the trachea, and the pharynx. Upon reaching the pharynx, larvae are swallowed and gain access to the GI tract. Once in the GI tract, worms attach to the wall of the intestine and begin to feed on the blood of the host."

"Pulmonary complaints such as cough or wheezing are generally less common than in A lumbricoides infection."

-http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/788488-overview
hmmm...isn't that if you use that patch thingy? I'm not sure it works that way if you drink it! check out the ovamed site in Germany- it explains things really well- in English. In any case I haven't noticed any side effects like this. But everyone's different. I have noticed I feel better, but I still don't eat junk food. I stick with healthy veggies, no meat except fish. But even with the healthy diet, if I miss a dosage of the helminths my gut feels weird. They say that I may be able to maintain remission after a goodly amount of dosages. But again, everyone reacts differently... I still feel like I need to take the stuff. I'm hoping I can stop taking it in october maybe....
then see what happens.
05-30-2009, 06:46 PM   #13
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D Bergy said:
I would have lost a large sum of money. I looked into it further and this is a common characteristic of parasites. They prevent detection and destruction by the immune response by chemically altering the environment.

That makes sense to me, and this hiding ability is also present in some bacteria as well.

I still do not buy the part about toning down a hyperactive immune response to normal bacteria. It would knock down the immune response and I am sure that is helpful symptom wise. The part I do not agree with is that the immune system is hyperactive. I believe it is continuously trying to kill bacteria that is not beneficial to the person. It is not able to kill it and it results in a constant inflammatory response.

You can get relief by either of two methods. Lower the immune response, and prevent reaction to the bacteria, increase the immune response enough so it can kill the offending bacteria.

It explains why both drugs that dampen the immune response work, and why Low Dose Naltrexone also works. It also explains why both type of drugs can work most of the time and yet will not work in some people.

Boosting the immune system has to result in an immune response strong enough to allow destruction of the bacteria. If it does not, then you just have a stronger ineffective immune response which would not help and may even be worse.

Contrarily, if the immune dampening drug does not weaken the immune response enough, it will still respond to the bacteria ineffectively as it has before. You may be slightly better if it allows for less inflammation. I would guess that is why it works in the first place.

The long term effect is that now you have less immune system ability to rid yourself of the secondary problem of the bacteria. Maybe the other bacteria present will hold it in check, maybe it won't. Who knows what happens in the world of bacteria?

I think it is better to rid yourself of the bacteria in the long run. The medical consensus does not attempt to do this. There are some gastro researchers that are trying this approach, but they are in the minority.

Dan

whatever the case maybe, its undeniable the number of crohns and uc sufferers who are getting into remission thanks to helminths. And if your willing to try remicade, you should darn well be willing to take harmless pig whipworms, that don't cause cancer. Check the Ovamed site, and you'll find some info. There was a doctor from the University of Iowa who researched this stuff, I believe his name is Weinstock...check that out too. When I started this stuff, I was searching for any and everything. No medicine worked, no diet helped! It was a nightmare. I'm still not cured, but I thank God for another day in remission- Its been pretty stable now, since December...so I'll have to see how things go this summer, which is when my flares were generally the worst.
05-30-2009, 08:11 PM   #14
D Bergy
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It is an interesting therapy, that I would like to keep track of and see how it develops. You never know if a back up plan will be needed in the future.

I hope this Summer is a symptom free one for you.

Dan
05-30-2009, 10:04 PM   #15
D Bergy
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I agree, if it is working then it is hard to argue with success.

I have used treatments that are experimental and largely untested. I do not regret trying any of them, while most failed, some worked spectacularly.

This has some track record already and if it can help people, I am all for it.

Dan
05-31-2009, 12:22 AM   #16
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mini and ekspain--maybe theres two different ways to take the worms? you said that you drink them, ekspain, and mini was talking about a patch, which involves no drinking right?
i wonder why anyone would do the patch method, drinking them sounds a lot more direct. you swallow them right into your belly!
05-31-2009, 10:44 AM   #17
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kello82 said:
mini and ekspain--maybe theres two different ways to take the worms? you said that you drink them, ekspain, and mini was talking about a patch, which involves no drinking right?
i wonder why anyone would do the patch method, drinking them sounds a lot more direct. you swallow them right into your belly!
Yeah I drink mine. Its really not disgusting at all. In fact if you didn't know they were actually helminth eggs, you would never know the difference unless they did a blood test. The patch that I've heard about seems really a nuisance. Maybe cuz the drinking method has been patented or something, they were obliged to invent another way- the patch really does sound icky.
But hey if it works- I'm really not that grossed out by this stuff, though- and I don't really understand why some of us are. We have bacteria and other living things galore in our bodies anyways...
06-01-2009, 11:14 PM   #18
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Yes I would prefer to drink them to avoid the whole lung thing.
That is just creepy to me. Good to know they have a drinking method.
06-02-2009, 08:11 AM   #19
D Bergy
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It took me awhile to get used to taking probiotics since it is basically eating pure bacteria. A person does not really think of food as living organisms, but food has bacteria, insect larvae, and probably many other things we would rather not know about. Just take a close look at your flour and you will find bugs in it.

Hook worms? why not, I have likely ate worse things. I had these small tape worms from animal fleas. Apparently they do not help like hook worms because I discovered these after a CT scan when at my worst. The contrast liquid killed some of them. I purposely killed the rest of them.

At least the Hook Worms are not visible. The tape worms are.

Dan
12-30-2009, 04:10 PM   #20
luke
 
kello82 said:
mini and ekspain--maybe theres two different ways to take the worms? you said that you drink them, ekspain, and mini was talking about a patch, which involves no drinking right?
i wonder why anyone would do the patch method, drinking them sounds a lot more direct. you swallow them right into your belly!
I started the hookworm treatment that requires the patch in September for my Crohn's disease. The difference in the two methods of delivery has to do with the life cycle of the type of helminths. Necator Americanus requires entry through the skin where it eventually finds its way to your gut where it will live for 3-7 years. The good news is that during the trip through your lungs, you can't really feel anything. You might cough, but you could be coughing from pollen or allergies. It's not as if you are coughing up earthworms My guess is that pig whipworms can make the adjustment to the gut immediately, which is why you can swallow them.

There is an itching sensation where you place the patch, but it can feel as mild as a mosquito bite (though like everything, it differs for every person). The good news is you only have to do it every 3-7 years.

If you're considering it, I would definitely suggest doing your homework. I got mine from autoimmunetherapies.com after they sent me research papers on the topic of helminthic therapy. There are a lot of people out there trying to make a buck and since it's not regulated by the FDA it's up to you to make sure it is safe.

If your interested in how my experience has been, I'm blogging about it at: www.lukecology.blogspot.com

If helminthic therapy works I want people to know about it. In the same way, if it doesn't work, I want people to know to stay away. Either way, I'm glad to find others talking about it!
12-30-2009, 04:41 PM   #21
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Thanks for the info.
I am doing this next if Remi stops working.

'Coughing up earthworms' LOL. I gagged just reading that.
12-30-2009, 04:47 PM   #22
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Wow....Thanks for the info.

Are these worms able to travel to the brain? Are they the same type that use to be in under cooked pork?
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12-30-2009, 04:58 PM   #23
MINI Cooper
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oh and one more question.
Can I easily get rid of the if I decide I dont want them anymore??
12-30-2009, 06:31 PM   #24
luke
 
imisspopcorn said:
Wow....Thanks for the info.

Are these worms able to travel to the brain? Are they the same type that use to be in under cooked pork?
One of the reasons for using Necator Americanus (human hookworm) is because it doesn't "transmigrate." Having worms in your brain is one of the reasons why just any ol' worm won't do! I don't think the pig whipworm is the same as the kind you can get from pork, but I haven't done as much research about them.
12-30-2009, 06:34 PM   #25
luke
 
MINI Cooper said:
oh and one more question.
Can I easily get rid of the if I decide I dont want them anymore??
After multiple trips on Prednisone and the joys of its lasting effects, I was ready for something that didn't hang around when I was ready to be done with it. The great thing about hookworms is that you can take a pill and kill them within 48 hours. You can also kill them with "laughing gas" from the dentist, which I suppose would be more fun...
12-30-2009, 06:42 PM   #26
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Luke - thank you for hopping on here and contributing this information. This is one of those things that will probably only get figured out through self research since it will probably never get official funding.

P.S. - love the pic blog too - very nice sunrise shots!

Last edited by Peaches; 12-30-2009 at 06:49 PM.
01-12-2010, 11:23 AM   #27
Sue-2009
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I'd try it!!! Anything!!! I just can't believe they do not have a cure or better treatment for crohns!!! I find it unbelievable!!!
01-12-2010, 12:29 PM   #28
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I dunno, the thought of worms...ew

Sue what country are you from?
01-12-2010, 12:35 PM   #29
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You know what scares me...The worms are coming from Mexico...I would rather they came from the USA or Canada. Does that bother anyone else?

Last edited by imisspopcorn; 01-13-2010 at 10:43 PM.
01-12-2010, 01:06 PM   #30
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I think I would rather have my colon removed.
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