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03-29-2014, 06:04 AM   #1
Crohn2357
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Paleo Diet and Kidney Diseases

Hello, I've been doing gluten, casein, sugar free diet, a lot like paleo diet but with rice&potatoes. I eat red meat(not processed) every meal.
As you know, some diseases have been linked to meat consumption by researches and trials though not all of them are clear or qualified. But I have concerns specifically about increased kidney stone risk with high meat consumption. I had problems with kidney stones before and I don't want to live with it again. I wonder, does high meat consumption increase kidney stone risk too much? I don't eat/drink citrus fruits so I can't use them as preventative. Maybe drinking too much water?
Thanks.

Last edited by Crohn2357; 03-29-2014 at 06:30 AM.
03-29-2014, 06:45 AM   #2
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Hello, I've been doing gluten, casein, sugar free diet, a lot like paleo diet but with rice&potatoes. I eat red meat(not processed) every meal.
As you know, some diseases have been linked to meat consumption by researches and trials though not all of them are clear or qualified. But I have concerns specifically about increased kidney stone risk with high meat consumption. I had problems with kidney stones before and I don't want to live with it again. I wonder, does high meat consumption increase kidney stone risk too much? I don't eat/drink citrus fruits so I can't use them as preventative. Maybe drinking too much water?
Thanks.
I think the short answer is that nobody knows for sure whether a specific diet type will "cause" kidney stones or not. You can get some clues from the dietary recommendations for people who already have them, though. But it's not that simple. There are many types of kidney stones...

Different types of kidney stones and general information:
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healt...nes_85,P01494/

Dietary recommendations from NIH:
http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/Kudiseas...iet/index.aspx

Excerpt from NIH:
Why is knowing which type of kidney stone a person has important?

The first step in preventing kidney stones is to understand what is causing the stones to form. This information helps the health care provider suggest diet changes to prevent future kidney stones. For example, limiting oxalate in the diet may help prevent calcium oxalate stones but will do nothing to prevent uric acid stones. Some dietary recommendations may apply to more than one type of stone. Most notably, drinking enough fluids helps prevent all kinds of kidney stones by keeping urine diluted and flushing away materials that might form stones.
03-29-2014, 07:01 AM   #3
Too Many Bum Steers
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To be clear, Paleo is often about having animal protein with a salad. But SCD and GAPS are often about choosing the correct type of carbohydrate and already fermented food (fermented outside the body instead of inside the body, in the case of GAPS), not about increasing the amount of animal protein in the diet.

My own experience with red meat + salad is that it led me to constipation because first, it is high in iron, and second it is high in fiber. SCD fixed that as it is much lower in fiber and does not focus on meat. GAPS is very clever in that it uses already fermented food which is not likely to make me any more gassy - as long as it is not contaminated. So GAPS is too tricky for me to embrace fully.

Both GAPS and SCD, and lately Paleo, use bone broth or cartilage broth which is high in glycine and low in methionine (muscle meat is dominant in methionine). This is significant for people with Crohn's because methionine levels can lead directly to high homocysteine levels. Since we are at risk for low B12 and folic acid, a glycine and not methionine dominant broth is important. (Note that plain jello is also glycine dominant.)

http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/g...ocysteine-risk
03-31-2014, 12:45 AM   #4
hugh
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[edit]published literature suggests[edit] High protein diets don't cause kidney disease, but they are not healthy for people with kidney disease.
Your diet is fine
When protien is increased there is an increase in uric acid production but there is also an increase in excretion, whereas with increased fructose there is an increase in production but not excretion

I've seen evidence of increased kidney stones in Ketogenic diet (the study was epileptic children treated with the ketogenic diet) but your diet is nowhere near ketogenic, it looks like a fairly sensible take on medium carb paleo (potatoes are as paleo as any other modern veg, but most paleo are carb-o-phobic)
google led to this...
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/categor...kidney-stones/
conclusion...
...Also, unless there is a therapeutic reason to restrict carbohydrates, it is best to obtain about 20% of calories from carbs in order to relieve the need to manufacture glucose and ketones from protein. This will substantially reduce uric acid excretion. If it also reduces vitamin C degradation rates, as we argued in our last post, then it will substantially reduce oxalate excretion as well.

an intelligent man looking at kidney stone in zero-carb diets (ketogenic) with some advice to look into if you are worried or prone to stones (i had one once and understand the desire to never have another - but it was at the end of my vegetarian days)
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Last edited by hugh; 03-31-2014 at 01:08 AM.
03-31-2014, 02:42 AM   #5
PsychoJane
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It will depend of the type of stone. I read that meat consuption might possibly increase the risk of uric acid stone formation because it lowers the ph but it was also stated that the clinical effectiveness of the low protein diet in the prevention of stones was not clear.

High fluid intakes (water) helps reducing the risk as well as coffee, certain teas, beer and wine while apple and grapejuice would increase the risks.

Limit sodium intake, increase dietary calcium from food (not in supplement as it could increase the risk). Maintaining a low BMI also reduce the risks.
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03-31-2014, 05:56 AM   #6
Crohn2357
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Thank you all.
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