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Crohn's Disease Forum » Tests for IBD » Explanation of Anti-Carbohydrate


07-17-2014, 05:59 PM   #1
pone
 
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Explanation of Anti-Carbohydrate

I had a test recently that suggested I have high probability of inflammatory bowel disease (IBD). My antilaminaribioside carbohydrate antibodies (ALCA) and antimannobioside carbohydrate antibodies (AMCA) were both elevated. Can someone explain to me exactly what these are? Strangely Google did not show any page giving a clear definition.

The name "carbohydrate antibodies" is very strange to me. It suggests the body's immune system is attacking carbohydrates? How does one determine which specific foods are causing the problem? It cannot be a reaction to just any sugar?
07-17-2014, 06:53 PM   #2
Orchid
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Laminaribioside is a disaccharide with cytotoxic effects often witnessed in those with CD. As a result the body will oftentimes start producing antibodies against it. Just because something is made of benign building blocks doesn't mean the sum of the parts is harmless.
07-17-2014, 07:04 PM   #3
pone
 
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Laminaribioside is a disaccharide with cytotoxic effects often witnessed in those with CD. As a result the body will oftentimes start producing antibodies against it. Just because something is made of benign building blocks doesn't mean the sum of the parts is harmless.
Laminaribioside is apparently found in cell walls of yeast and fungi. Does that mean I might have an infection with those organisms? In true Crohn's disease, what is creating the Laminaribioside?

Do you happen to know if these disaccharides get into systemic circulation, and can they cause any kind of neurological side effects? I have a lifelong issue where some foods can make me feel neurologically impaired. Wheat for example would leave me feeling like I ate rat poison and almost vegetative at times, unable to concentrate.
07-17-2014, 07:26 PM   #4
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That sounds more like gluten sensitivity, have you talked to an allergist about tests for gluten disorders?
07-17-2014, 08:20 PM   #5
pone
 
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That sounds more like gluten sensitivity, have you talked to an allergist about tests for gluten disorders?
I have avoided gluten for years. But I take your answer to mean that the disaccharide you identified does NOT have neurological effects?

What about fungi and yeast? What is source for this disaccharide in a Crohn's patient?
07-17-2014, 08:42 PM   #6
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It's unknown. It's not part of the human immune response.
07-18-2014, 05:36 PM   #7
pone
 
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It's unknown. It's not part of the human immune response.
Are there any theories about the source of inflammation in Crohn's? Does anyone believe Yeast and Fungi are involved?
07-18-2014, 05:43 PM   #8
Orchid
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You're not making any cutting edge discoveries here. Most of the genes implicated in CD involve impaired immune response in the GI tract.
07-18-2014, 05:45 PM   #9
pone
 
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You're not making any cutting edge discoveries here. Most of the genes implicated in CD involve impaired immune response in the GI tract.
I have no goal to make new discoveries in science. I'm trying to understand the scope of what my test result implies.

The question is whether the immune response is directly to food, or is the immune response to some organism in the gut.
07-18-2014, 06:09 PM   #10
Orchid
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We simply don't know.
07-18-2014, 06:59 PM   #11
pone
 
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We simply don't know.
Here was a nice study explaining how in IBD type diseases there is a deterioration in the colonic / ileum lining and bacteria cling to the unprotected surfaces, causing inflammation:

http://www.jpp.krakow.pl/journal/arc...s6_article.pdf

Seems like an excellent strategy would be to spend money on BioHealth and Metamatrix bacterial profiles and work with an expert to repopulate just the dysregulated species of bacteria.

Last edited by pone; 07-18-2014 at 08:30 PM.
07-18-2014, 07:00 PM   #12
Magnolia24
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The question is whether the immune response is directly to food, or is the immune response to some organism in the gut.
Have you read Breaking the Vicious Cycle? It sounds like it might be of interest to you. It describes the role food plays in gut illness, and specifically sources of sugar that create bacterial imbalance, immune response, and inflammation, and offers an alternative diet (SCD) that aims to correct the imbalance.
07-18-2014, 07:17 PM   #13
pone
 
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Have you read Breaking the Vicious Cycle? It sounds like it might be of interest to you. It describes the role food plays in gut illness, and specifically sources of sugar that create bacterial imbalance, immune response, and inflammation, and offers an alternative diet (SCD) that aims to correct the imbalance.
I'm interested in looking at the Paleo Anti Inflammatory diet as well.
07-22-2014, 03:21 PM   #14
Magnolia24
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Yeah, Paleo and SCD (and GAPS, Primal, Perfect Health Diet...) are pretty similar with some differences in starches and dairy products. The big thing they have in common is cutting out grains and processed sugars... And of course eating real, whole foods. So it's nice that you can find recipes that work for the regimen you've chosen in cookbooks and blogs of the others, and realize that some of the specific differences might be personal variables you can experiment with down the road (For example, I've been doing SCD, but on the advice of my ND am adding quinoa and yams).
07-22-2014, 03:45 PM   #15
pone
 
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Yeah, Paleo and SCD (and GAPS, Primal, Perfect Health Diet...) are pretty similar with some differences in starches and dairy products. The big thing they have in common is cutting out grains and processed sugars... And of course eating real, whole foods. So it's nice that you can find recipes that work for the regimen you've chosen in cookbooks and blogs of the others, and realize that some of the specific differences might be personal variables you can experiment with down the road (For example, I've been doing SCD, but on the advice of my ND am adding quinoa and yams).
I have been on a largely gluten-free, low sugar diet for many years. I have never had extreme IBD symptoms, but symptoms more like IBS. But when I had wheat I had horrific symptoms.

What I am struggling to understand at this point is what do these anti carbohydrate markers actually measure, and what do they suggest about my gut ecology and tissue inflammation given that the disease is well controlled?

I guess I need to profile my bacteria and see if something pops out there.
07-22-2014, 05:26 PM   #16
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No celiac tests measure for specific antibodies caused by the reaction of gluten products with the immune system and gluten sensitivity is only really tested with the gluten challenge.
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