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09-13-2009, 10:01 AM   #1
Mats83
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weight problems!?!?!?

Hello!

have a weight problem, can not gain weight the way I do, it seems that, assuming that more of you have the same problem? someone who has good suggestions on what can be done?
134p weighs pounds and is 183 centimeters long, (6fot) weighing around 176p pounds. you get mad.
Took steroids for 2 years ago, but I will not again.

Are from Sweden, so hope you understand what type yes

May the best
09-13-2009, 10:33 AM   #2
Dawn
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Hi Mats and welcome to the forum!

Have you tried any of the protein drinks such as Boost or Ensure? I don't know that those are sold in Sweden, but many people tend to drink those during a flare (myself included). It's really difficult to gain weight during a flare-up, but maybe protein drinks can help you maintain.

Hope this helps!
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09-13-2009, 02:37 PM   #3
kenny
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I'm in the same boat Matts, and yes I can understand just fine.

6'1" used to weigh 170 lbs and was physical active person.
Now I'm 140-145 and struggling.

I am keeping a calorie intake log so I can push myself to eat enough without eating foods that will hurt me. Its hard to take in sufficient calories when you cant eat much types of food
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09-13-2009, 03:36 PM   #4
BWS1982
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Hi Mats, you're saying you can't gain weight back after losing it now that you're off the steroids and still flaring, correct? You used to weigh 176 and now are 134?... I think you're saying you can't gain weight right now, but I just want to give you the right answers too, in case you're actually saying you want to lose it...Just want to be sure as I wanted to give advice too.

Also, how sick are you, if at all with your Crohn's Disease at this time, are you flaring very badly?
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Last edited by BWS1982; 09-13-2009 at 03:40 PM.
09-13-2009, 11:50 PM   #5
Naps22
 
BWS, please tell us how you get so freakin big. I'm jealous. I've been 135 lbs for the last 4 years. I've been trying to get to 150 forever. I lift weights but it's still really tough for me to put the weight on. I've started drinking 3-4 ensures a day, and usually 2-4 meals a day, and one of the meals is usually always a good source of protein (chicken, fish, tuna, steak). I just can never seem to put it on. I saw that you were going to do a food log awhile back of what you ate but you never did it. Did you get crohns in your late teens after you had already grew?

i'm honestly to the point where I'm about to just give up and quit worrying about it and just accept the fact that im going to look like an annorexic kid for the rest of my life. I try so damn hard and just fail, and fail and fail time after time it's not even worth the effort anymore. I guess I'm just not meant to be a normal weight.

Last edited by Naps22; 09-14-2009 at 12:01 AM.
09-14-2009, 12:03 AM   #6
Jeff D.
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Naps not to hijack this thread but what are you doing when you lift weights. What are your workouts like? Do you lift more each time you go to the gym? Do you use the same weights? How much protein are you getting and when are you eating it? How many carbs are you taking in as well?

I know lots of questions but they can definitely help when trying to gain weight.
09-14-2009, 12:25 AM   #7
Naps22
 
Jeff D. said:
Naps not to hijack this thread but what are you doing when you lift weights. What are your workouts like? Do you lift more each time you go to the gym? Do you use the same weights? How much protein are you getting and when are you eating it? How many carbs are you taking in as well?

I know lots of questions but they can definitely help when trying to gain weight.
I won't say I'm an expert at lifting weights but I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing. I just got off prednizone a few months ago so I was pretty weak for awhile and I've just gotten back into lifting, and I've gotten a lot of my strength back. I bench press, dumbbell press, leg press, do curls, dips, pull ups. I'd do deadlifts but I'm afraid doing those will hurt my back. I can max out at 185 on the bench, and bench 165 5-6 times. It's not like I have no muscle. When I take my shirt off I definitely have some muscle, it's just that I cannot fill out, and with a shirt on I just look like another skinny kid. I'm 5'11 btw. 135 just seems to be my peak weight. I rarely do cardio, sometimes I'll play basketball and that will be my cardio, so it's not like I'm burning any calories running around or anything. I eat about 6 meals a day. I count an ensure as a meal as one of them is like 350 calories. I also try to eat 3 normal meals a day. 1 of those meals is usually always some source of lean protein like chicken, steak, tuna, or any kind of fish. The other 2 meals are usually something like a publix sub (philly cheese steak). I try to limit the carbs as much as possible, because I know they won't help me in putting on any weight because that's pretty much all I ate up until a year and a half ago, but sometimes I do indulge. I don't count calories but I have to be getting in about 2500-3000 calories a day, and that SHOULD put weight on me. But it doesn't. It's not like I don't know what I'm doing, I'm a food and nutrition science major, I'm just to the point where I'm desperate and any advice from anyone will help.

and sry to hijack the thread
09-14-2009, 12:40 AM   #8
Jeff D.
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If you are lifting the same weight every time you go to the gym then your body will only grow muscles to keep lifting that weight so you will eventually reach a plataeu. When you say you max out at 185 how many reps is that?

Try to lift 5 more pounds every week you go to the gym. Remember that when trying to gain weight that rest days are just as important as your workout days.

I'm not saying you don't know what you are doing I'm just trying to help out as I have been researching muscle building for the past 6 or 7 years. I have just been sick for most of the past 6 years as well so I haven't always been able to put into practice what I have learned. The times I have been able to workout I have gained 20 pounds in less then 3 months so I feel like my methods work.

When you reach a plataeu it also could mean that you need to change things up. You can't give up. Just try something different. Do different exercises for the same muscle groups. Try lifting heavier weights at much less reps. Try lifting a heavy weight until you can't lift it past ten times then use a smaller weight and lift until fatigue then repeat.

A workout should really not take much more than 45 minutes. Any more than that and your body starts to work against you. The only way to prolong a workout for more than 45 minutes is to give yourself more recovery between sets which can be a good thing.

If you are working out and doing one set after another without much rest inbetween then you are giving yourself a good cardio workout which is not what you want.
09-14-2009, 01:10 AM   #9
BWS1982
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Naps, Jeff asked some good guiding questions, I'll see how much I can add too, I'll start with this "novel" first, and thanks for the remarks within your questions.

I thought I'd done a "average daily intake" type post where I posted an optimal day of eating, where I totaled the cals up and all, but perhaps that was in a wordpad doc still. I could have sworn I'd posted a basic list of food sources I switch up, but you could be right, maybe I never got to it. Hmm. Sorry 'bout that. I'll do that here for what I can eat as of now, according to the foods I can tolerate and my current goal of bulking back up (the pics in my signature are from a couple years ago right before this flareup, but by Nov I predict I'll be similar at this pace)...I'm about at 185 now, also 5'11", and was about 185-190 in those pics, but I was carrying Id guess about 5-8 pounds less fat. I am about 2-3 months away from having that much muscle again at this rate, based on my own experience and pace as of late, but will then have to trim off that 5-8 less fat, as that's the standard "cycle" to add muscle, then trim the extra fat, repeat.

A normal selection of food lately comprises 3 frozen beef and bean chimichangas that's about 30 grams of protein and 900 calories...that's breakfast, believe it or not, it costs me just a bit over a dollar for the 3 when bought in 8 packs at Walmart, and they bind well and help with D...they agree well for me and are a quick microwaved meal in the morning to eat in traffic on the way to work. Breakfast is generally the biggest meal for me, as it should be for most people, Crohns or not.

A couple hours later, I'll eat on break, a handful of peanuts, chewed up REAL well, again, as of now, no issues doing just a handful, and as long as I chew them up, no issues. I'm about 85% to remission, and have gotten this well eating moderate amounts of fiber/nuts chewed up. That's about 200 calories, maybe 8 grams of protein.

Couple hours later, I'll usually have a packet of tuna with some crackers, or, because of mercury restrictions, a MetRx Colossal Big 100 protein bar, they're under $2 at Walmart, I usually have the cookies and cream ones. No issues with these either. 32 grams of protein, and about 400 cals.

Few hours later I need to start eating more carbs for my work outs (4 days a week currently, no cardio as of now), so I might eat a can of Chef Boyardee shell/beef pasta or Beefaroni (hey it's cheap and serves the need), which is about 24 grams of protein, and about 500 calories. For more slow burning carbs on top of the pasta, I may add in some pretzels, 2 bananas/apples (chewed up well they're okay lately), or baked potato chips, which adds negligible protein, and about 200-300 calories.

About 30 minutes before the workout, I actually might have about 16 oz or more of gatorade, or even a handful of marshmellows with lots of water (trust me, it gets burned off in the gym and doesn't make me any worse, I've done that for years, long before the Crohns, and it's almost necessary for the intensity in the gym I expect of myself). The goal here is some quick energy to blast me through the next 60-90 or so minutes, and be done with my workout before any rebound comes from the slight sugar spikes, as my postworkout nutrition will take over then. The point is also excellent hydration, although I drink at least 64 oz of water a day and up to a gallon some days anyways, I really focus on the 2 hours prior to the workout, so my stomach isn't bloated when I'm parched later during the workout. This is only about 100 calories or so either way.

Following the workout, I immediately drink my shake when I get home, which has about 20-30 grams of Isopure protein, 50 grams of sugar (Gatorade usually), and creatine and L-Glutamine. This is about 300 calories or so.

30 minutes after that I eat something from Wendy's I may have picked up on the way home, often a side salad and 2 spicy chicken go wraps or even a double stack or Jr. bacon cheeseburger. The salad has actually helped me, even when I was a bit worse, and I need those nutrients. This is around 40 grams of protein, maybe more (the point is to actually give my body so much protein it's possible my protein synthesis will have excess, which isn't unhealthy at all, I just want to saturate the protein requirement as it's post-workout)...this is cheap too, about 4 bucks for a salad and meal. LOTS of water too. This is often around 600-800 calories or so, depending on the chicken/burger. I usually have fat free ranch on the salad or balsamic vinegarette.

Finally, before bed a couple hours later, I have maybe 3 cheese sticks or cheese slices, low-fat cheese, and this adds about 200 calories and about 20 grams of protein. No issues, mozzerella string cheese usually.

Total (remember this is bulking and the point is to out-eat your metabolism by about 500 calories or so per day to net about 1 pound a week in "gains") is about 3700 calories, give or take 100 or so. Protein hits about 180 or so, which is just shy of my bodyweight for the 1 gram/pound of weight mantra (~185 lbs. or so). I used to be able to eat more around 200 grams of protein, but certain things had to be adjusted as I slowly upped food as I got healthier lately. Things like milk and more protein powder could be added before Crohns, and I used to eat more than 1 handful of peanuts etc... This has kept gain steady for about 5 pounds a month, and most of it has been muscle. I still have all my measurements from the chest pic below in my signature (July of 2007, 1 month before this current flare I'm in started) and I'm not too far off, progress and pace seems acceptable if not optimal with this "diet", and Crohn's doesn't mind it either.

Last edited by BWS1982; 09-14-2009 at 04:04 AM.
09-14-2009, 01:57 AM   #10
BWS1982
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Oh, and to add, carbs should normally be around at least double your bodyweight in grams when bulking IMO (whereas protein is "supposed" to be about 1 gram per pound in weight, carbs should be double that in grams of carbs)...the problem is that I had to completely revamp my carb selection once I got Crohns and I also have to readjust to not being able to eat so many veggies and ESPECIALLY fruits. I used to eat pears and oranges all day too, oatmeal, etc..and I feel awful not being able to include as many nutrient dense foods as I used to. You'll notice a lot of my food is "processed" above as of late, and that's because of Crohn's requirements (and partly for financial reasons too). My body seems to need some level of processing on some foods, particularly carbs. Others like chicken breast would have been in there, like canned chicken breast chunks, but that can give me a stomach ache or not be an option at work, one or the other. I used to eat a lot more "natural" and unprocessed when in full remission and before Crohn's but can't do it as much now. I also can snack on beef jerky now only if it's not too tough. I used to eat a lot differently when I had free range of choice, and would eat spinach salad and egg whites when cutting, I could drink a quart of keifer when bulking...and have no issues, I can't eat that way now (well the egg whites are okay still). The above is more of a place holder until I'm back in remission and can ease in foods one at a time.

I think a problem is you have the notion you need to cut back carbs, carbs help shunt the nutrients (protein, vitamins, creatine, which is in food not just a supplement, etc...) to the muscles. You probably know this from your studies, though. Think of carbs as a transportation aid or delivery system, and even though you're majoring in this and may know it, I think that could be your problem based on your above post.

You say you were only eating carbs before, regarding your prior mindset, I think you have to remember it's different now, because you are working out, your body is a whole other "animal"..the normal person should limit carbs to an extent, but when working out intensely and regularly, you have to ignore the mantras and "common sense" that society and "folks like Oprah" preach, the sedentary person (or person trying to trim fat off) is a whole other creature compared to an avid gym goer/weightlifter aiming to gain muscle mass, what makes sedentary people fatter makes a bodybuilder or powerlifter bigger and stronger, and adds muscle and energy, not love handles and another chin. That sounds vein or pompous but as you well know, it's also science, as unfortunate as it is for civilized, sedentary society, when the body is anabolic and has surging testosterone and all the workings of prime muscle growth environments, excess calories aren't converted to fat the same way, and hypertrophy and protein synthesis are present. I had to depressingly remind myself of this when I was not able to work out, and treat myself as the sedentary person I'd become. Carbs are also a great source of energy. Storing the glycogen up in the muscles and "topping" it off will heed great results and sustainability in the gym, and keep you from fatiguing so early on. Finally, carbs will help you reach caloric goals easier....if you are getting 2500 or so cals a day, and only eating perhaps 2 meals with major sources of protein (your protein source examples + your philly cheese steak) then you may not be getting enough protein either...all the extra calories have to come from somewhere, and that's where macro ratios come in, as you no doubt know them by. Protein to carbs to fat...the premise of "Balance nutrition bars" (though those are for "optimal health/weight management, not muscle building, so ignore those ratios)...

Finally (ha, that's a good one Benson)...your workout routine may need refinement too, your pullups are about the only back work you're getting, and I don't know how often you work your legs, but you should have as much lower body focus as upper. Testosterone surges and releases most doing the biggest muscle groups, and for the lats (most of your upper back) and your legs, there aren't any other larger muscles. And to answer, I was diagnosed when I was 24, after I'd already grown to my height of 5'11". Bottom line is I think you may be short on protein, and even shorter on carbs...you'll have to judge your macros and find how those 2500-3000 calories total up.

A huge dude once told me years ago "eat anything not nailed down"...once you've gotten enough of the carbs and protein in, the rest is a buffet. As long as you don't sacrifice your status in Crohns-land...eat it.

Last edited by BWS1982; 09-14-2009 at 02:17 AM.
09-14-2009, 05:00 AM   #11
Mats83
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thank you all for good info. especially BWS, you seem to be that of the intake and exercise. must try it.

Dawn: it is in Sweden, though I NUTRICIA energy drink (12g protein, 18g carbohydrate) approximately 4-5 drinks per day and breakfast lunch dinner. but have been drinking them for many months and nothing happens. Maybe time to change.

BWS: true that I want to put on weight, got very good response from you. going to test it, to increase by A LOT calories, protein intake. I have just finished medecenering at 8 weeks of prednisolone. have had Crohn's disease in 6AR. but I shall eight small portions often when I tranne?
I may try in a few months and see if it goes up slightly in weight, I have made a log that Kenny wrote about. hope it goes well for everyone else too. continue to struggle. May the best Mats
09-14-2009, 09:55 AM   #12
Naps22
 
Thanks for all the info BWS. I do do more than just pull ups for my back. Like Upright rows, lat pull downs, and a couple other things I forgot to post. But I have been ignoring my legs a lot lately for some reason. Probably because I just hate doing them. How many times do you workout a week when bulking?
09-15-2009, 01:05 AM   #13
BWS1982
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Mats83 said:
thank you all for good info. especially BWS, you seem to be that of the intake and exercise. must try it.

Dawn: it is in Sweden, though I NUTRICIA energy drink (12g protein, 18g carbohydrate) approximately 4-5 drinks per day and breakfast lunch dinner. but have been drinking them for many months and nothing happens. Maybe time to change.

BWS: true that I want to put on weight, got very good response from you. going to test it, to increase by A LOT calories, protein intake. I have just finished medecenering at 8 weeks of prednisolone. have had Crohn's disease in 6AR. but I shall eight small portions often when I tranne?
I may try in a few months and see if it goes up slightly in weight, I have made a log that Kenny wrote about. hope it goes well for everyone else too. continue to struggle. May the best Mats
Yeah, you'll want to limit portion size when training, if that's what you're asking. Maybe 5 or more "meals" a day. You can count a snack as a "meal" if it's just a piece of fruit and cheese stick, for example. On days off you want to eat about the same as the days your workout, as your days of growth are your days off for the most part, so you want to fuel your body through those too. The 3 most important parts of the day in my opinion nutritionally are breakfast, pre-workout, and finally, post workout. If you mess up one or more of those on an ongoing basis, you'll see results suffer. Try to get about 30 grams of protein in the morning, a small meal perhaps 1 hour before working out, and then at least one more meal after the workout (whether you have a protein shake afterwords or not) and that should also be at least 30 or so grams protein. Without protein coming in, the muscles actually have a tendency to "digest themselves" to feed on protein needs. Kind of like if a building falls down, you can start building it back up, but you may need pieces that went elsewhere just to adequately put most of it back up...the best way would be to get in new supplies and pieces. The same goes for muscle building, the best way to rebuild is to give all new "materials"...ie: protein.

Let me know if anything is unclear...my Great grandma came from Sweden, but I only know a couple words in it.
09-15-2009, 01:25 AM   #14
BWS1982
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Naps22 said:
Thanks for all the info BWS. I do do more than just pull ups for my back. Like Upright rows, lat pull downs, and a couple other things I forgot to post. But I have been ignoring my legs a lot lately for some reason. Probably because I just hate doing them. How many times do you workout a week when bulking?
I'll admit I usually don't like working legs either, the benefit that helps motivate me to do them like clockwork anyway is I can rest longer between sets that day, and feel more focused on each set. I do 12 total sets for any upper body day minimum, but with legs, it's at about 6 to 7, and maybe calves too...this allows a more calculated mindset, I guess, and I guess I use that to really generate focus and turn each set into an even more important one to do.

The best 3 back exercises IMO are pulldown movements (pull ups or pull downs, really both are lat-intensive), some sort of seated row movement (cable, machine, or however), and Tbar rows...Dumbell and barbell are okay, but you may be limited by whatever you're propping yourself up on, whereas the others have you pushed up against some sort of pad, stopping device, or your feet/outstretched legs are holding you in place (like on cable rows or some machines)...bent over barbell rows are a good "movement" per se, but they are limited to the weight you can hold in the concentric/up status, where the bar is up to your chest and you're bent down. This can limit it as you're no longer doing the best isolation job you could have, you're now incorporating unrelated muscles that may fatigue first before your back gets sufficient work, like the lower back may get too sore bending down for 20 seconds straight with all that weight before your upper back/lats have had enough for a good set.

Upright rows are a good exercise for the middle head of the deltoid (top of shoulder) and the traps...traps are a back muscle more or less, but a good day to work the traps is on a leg day in some cases, depending on what else is done the rest of the days. Personally, I do military press work for shoulders (and rear deltoid flyes for rear deltoids) and shrugs for traps. I do deadlifts too, and those work the traps well, but for great trap work, nothing isolates them like shrugs. Deadlifts when done right have no risk of injury any more than any other exercise, you just have to start light. If you have a shrug machine, use it.

When bulking the current plan I have has only 4 to 5 days a week working out (it alternates, one week it's 4, the next it's usually 5, because I actually work out 9 days out of 14, hence the alternating pattern).

Last edited by BWS1982; 09-15-2009 at 01:28 AM.
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