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04-12-2015, 10:02 PM   #121
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That's true. I know I do need to work on self confidence and accepting my body image no matter how it is. It's just hard for me, to be honest.


Has anyone been on antidepressants for an appetite stimulant? My GP gave me Remeron to increase my appetite and for anxiety. It did seem to make me hungry but made my legs so restless I couldn't sleep. So I quit taking it.
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04-13-2015, 07:16 PM   #122
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So, I went to work today and was fired....they told me among the many reasons one was because I was too thin.
04-14-2015, 12:15 AM   #123
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So, I went to work today and was fired....they told me among the many reasons one was because I was too thin.
First off, I'm so sorry.

Secondly, I'm pretty sure it's illegal to fire someone because they're "too thin"! Wow. I am so sorry.
04-14-2015, 03:19 AM   #124
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Oh no I am sorry to hear that! Pretty sure they can't fire you for being too thin, what the heck?
04-14-2015, 06:19 AM   #125
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First off, I'm so sorry.

Secondly, I'm pretty sure it's illegal to fire someone because they're "too thin"! Wow. I am so sorry.
It was the main reason they gave but there were others. I look weak and frail. I guess some regular customers commented on it.
04-14-2015, 07:11 AM   #126
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I have to be strong and energetic enough for the kids that I work with, but they have not fired me at my worst. Job hunting is hard enough without all the medical bills you have to go through. I hope you find something better soon!
04-15-2015, 05:33 AM   #127
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It was the main reason they gave but there were others. I look weak and frail. I guess some regular customers commented on it.
If you don't mind me asking, how much do you weigh, and how tall are you, and what is your job? If I was well enough to be working (which I'm not, but my weight is not the reason for that) I think I'd understand that my weight would make me unemployable for many jobs, because it's not possible for anyone to weigh as little as I do and be able to do anything involving physical activity. (Not just very strenuous activity, but even just being on my feet a lot.)

But I'm an extreme case an I doubt that you're as underweight as I am. Are they firing you because of your image rather than because they think it's not safe for you to work due to your weight? Even if they do have safety concerns, surely they should at least have discussed it with you first? Surely the right thing to do would be to ask you to provide a letter from your doctor confirming your ability to work? Or at least asked you to take some time off with the promise that you'll have your job back if/when your health improves? There just seem to be so many better ways of handling things. I'm very sorry. But at least you'll no longer be working for such heartless people.
04-15-2015, 06:11 AM   #128
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If you don't mind me asking, how much do you weigh, and how tall are you, and what is your job? If I was well enough to be working (which I'm not, but my weight is not the reason for that) I think I'd understand that my weight would make me unemployable for many jobs, because it's not possible for anyone to weigh as little as I do and be able to do anything involving physical activity. (Not just very strenuous activity, but even just being on my feet a lot.)

But I'm an extreme case an I doubt that you're as underweight as I am. Are they firing you because of your image rather than because they think it's not safe for you to work due to your weight? Even if they do have safety concerns, surely they should at least have discussed it with you first? Surely the right thing to do would be to ask you to provide a letter from your doctor confirming your ability to work? Or at least asked you to take some time off with the promise that you'll have your job back if/when your health improves? There just seem to be so many better ways of handling things. I'm very sorry. But at least you'll no longer be working for such heartless people.
I am 5'8 and about 115. I work an embroidery shop and there are boxes, but I have always lifted them and still do. I was about 20 lbs heavier when I started working there.


I have Drs notes staying that I can work. He may not want me to work but he still writes my notes. I think the worst part is they were supposed to be my friends. They always talked about how we were family-friendly this is not how family treats each other.

On a different note, I am eating everything in sight(that I am allowed to) and am back to losing more weight. I am down to 110 in less than 3 days.
04-15-2015, 10:05 AM   #129
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Your bmi is only just under the minimum healthy norm. I can't see why they'd have a problem.
04-15-2015, 04:52 PM   #130
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That's true. I know I do need to work on self confidence and accepting my body image no matter how it is. It's just hard for me, to be honest.
Did you see the doc about anti-nausea meds or something else to stimulate appetite?

I was just thinking, it's just my opinion, it would be great if you can be happy with the way you are, because that would make you a good role model for your daughter to be self confindant too.
04-15-2015, 04:55 PM   #131
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cantthinkstr8t

That is terrible for you, I am so sorry.
Does that put you under alot of pressure financially now?
I am hoping that if you do not have to go to work then you can concentrate more on relaxing and feeling better.
04-15-2015, 04:57 PM   #132
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I think I might have to weigh myself to see how much I have lost since the colonoscopy. I have a nasty feeling it has knocked more that 2 kgs off. That was 6 months work......
05-01-2015, 04:45 AM   #133
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Just had to cut honey out, I'm down to milk, pomegranate and carrot juice and oats for carbs.

Luckily this leaves oat-fried chicken on the table.
http://i.imgur.com/8btjrNt.jpg
Old picture, wrapped in bacon.
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05-01-2015, 06:57 AM   #134
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I have stopped going near the scales for the moment - thankfully I don't own a set so thats pretty easy

My jeans are a little roomier than they were, but I'm not going to stress about it right now.
I feel more robust, and I'm up to 140g of protein a day, as well as whatever I eat which consists of alot of cottage cheese (low fat), fat free greek yoghurt with honey and cinnamon (massive amts of protein in the yoghurt) and tomato & fennel bread.

I had hoped to be nearer 50kgs at this point(53 is my real target), but looks like 46kgs is sticking to me right now.

My gut instinct says I haven't been on the protein drinks long enough for my body to start building reserves of any kind, so slow and steady is all I can do.
05-01-2015, 09:57 AM   #135
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Just had to cut honey out, I'm down to milk, pomegranate and carrot juice and oats for carbs.

Luckily this leaves oat-fried chicken on the table.
http://i.imgur.com/8btjrNt.jpg
Old picture, wrapped in bacon.
Why did you have to cut honey out?
05-01-2015, 10:03 AM   #136
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My gut instinct says I haven't been on the protein drinks long enough for my body to start building reserves of any kind, so slow and steady is all I can do.
Slow and steady should be easier to maintain.

I feel more robust, and I'm up to 140g of protein a day, as well as whatever I eat which consists of alot of cottage cheese (low fat), fat free greek yoghurt with honey and cinnamon (massive amts of protein in the yoghurt) and tomato & fennel bread.
Wouldn't it help more to eat full fat yoghurt and a high fat cheese? I'm not criticising, I'm genuinely asking. When I choose lower fat versions of foods it's because the higher fat ones are too rich and fill me up too much, but if I ate too many low calorie foods the amount of food I'd need to eat would be too filling. Do you eat fat free yoghurt for a different reason?

I find there's much more difference in satiety levels between high fat and low fat than there is between high sugar and low sugar. E.g. I find high fat milkshake much more filling than a low fat one, but I don't notice a difference between Diet Coke and ordinary, full sugar Coke. (Btw, there was an article linked to in another thread on this forum which claimed diet fizzy drinks make people gain weight. I know I've managed to lose weight well enough while drinking diet drinks. I much prefer the taste of Diet Coke, but I switched to drinking full sugar Coke because the Diet certainly wasn't helping me gain!)
05-01-2015, 01:43 PM   #137
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@UnXmas - its a fair question.one of my main problems is malabsorption due to intestinal lymphoedema. I also have lymphoedema externally too.

Lymphoedema itself is due to defective or absent lymphatic vessels under the skin. As the system is a transport system, one of the things it transports is long chain fat which is broken down. High/normal fat foods generally contain large amts of long chain fats.

So I have to eat low fat foods to reduce the need for my broken lymphatic system to be involved - short and medium chain fats are not transported by lymphatics.

If I eat normal fat foods, the lymphatics in my intestines swell, thereby reducing transport and absorption abilities further. Its a game I won't win, so I have to be picky.

I've been on this lowfat/high protein diet since I was 4 years old so its normal. My brain has been programmed to disregard foods I know are high fat. You also get used to being slightly hungry all the time
05-01-2015, 02:57 PM   #138
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Thanks for explaining, kikig. It's certainly a good reason for avoiding fat and I imagine it must make gaining weight very difficult. Has it always caused you weight problems? Is that why you're underweight now, or is it because of IBD? Sorry for all the personal questions, feel free not to answer if you don't want to, I'm just interested as I've not heard of lymphoedema before.
05-04-2015, 12:32 AM   #139
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I found this page that's full of weight-gain tips, it's aimed at people with cancer, but applies to anyone trying to gain:

http://kelliesfoodtoglow.com/nutriti...aining-weight/
05-04-2015, 03:12 AM   #140
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Thanks for explaining, kikig. It's certainly a good reason for avoiding fat and I imagine it must make gaining weight very difficult. Has it always caused you weight problems? Is that why you're underweight now, or is it because of IBD? Sorry for all the personal questions, feel free not to answer if you don't want to, I'm just interested as I've not heard of lymphoedema before.
Pretty much always caused issues, only I didn't realise it as a child really. I was always smaller and skinner than everyone else. Then again, no one really noticed as I had more noticeable lymphoedema.

I am underweight now due to IBD - symtoms had been on an even keel for quite a while that I didn't notice things slipping. I basically had a year of diarrhea & bloating - during which my general doctor refused to refer me to a GI. Eventually all hell broke loose and I found myself a proper GI.

Lymphoedema has been hitting the headlines recently on your side of the water as Kathy Bates has been doing alot of promo for it, to raise awareness. Her lymphodema is as after effect of breast cancer I believe - there are two forms generally - primary and secondary. Hers is secondary, mine is primary. I've always had it, and I found treatment on my own initiative, which is a life long thing I have to do. But it means that my hands are primarily the only obvious sign remaining.
Its everywhere really, so its a constant watch to keep it all manageable. Then IBD on top - I am a lucky girl

The lymphoedema was prob caused by my underlying IBD, and my severe immune issues also are a symptom of IBD.

I bought the wrong flavour protein drink at the weekend, so now I am stuck with 2kgs of strawberry flavoured protein. Strawberry flavour my butt, this is why I no longer eat the actual fruit

Last edited by kikig; 05-04-2015 at 03:51 AM.
05-05-2015, 07:38 PM   #141
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I've cut almost all carbs except milk and I'm drinking POM + coconut juice with water.
I'm trying to transition into a fat-based diet with some protein.

I've been reading about MAP and AIEC and they say nitrates from a high protein diet are bad for it, I'm trying to find the thread I read it in. Your body produces certain things that help eliminate cytokines, it's boosted by vitamin D, so Vit D is really good, I've been supplementing it and getting more sunlight.

I also read fasting helps. I'm wondering if it needs to be a full on fast or drawn out calorie restriction works, because I'm considering an IF diet where you eat all your calories within a 6 hour window and the rest of the day is a full fast, but if I could get a similar result with just restricted calorie intake, say 20-80% or so it would be easier.

I've been drinking hot milk with coconut oil for the lauric acid and vit D, then having lots of cheeses with my meats. Experimenting with vegetables, mushrooms and kayle are safe so far.

Weight hasn't budged but my BMs are consistently solid, energy levels are up, no discomfort, feeling unreasonably cold or shaky or anxious.

I'm taking lauric acid, cat's claw and a multi.

Despite my progress I had to cut honey and I had a small amount of sugar in my coffee last friday that caused an urgent bathroom trip. Simple sugars have never triggered me like they do right now.

My skin manifestations seem to be reducing. I still break out on my back and neck, I'm not sure if it's related but I've been treating it with a concoction of topical treatments including tea tree oil, head & shoulder's, aloe gel, Hibiclens, and coocnut oil in case it's surface manifestations of map bacteria.

Here it is http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=52151

Last edited by InstantCoffee; 05-05-2015 at 08:02 PM.
05-06-2015, 07:07 AM   #142
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Fasting is counterproductive if you're trying to gain weight.
05-06-2015, 04:44 PM   #143
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Fasting is counterproductive if you're trying to gain weight.
Not if it combats the underlying cause of weight loss - inflammation caused by harmful bacterial overgrowth.

Also Intermittent Fasting is neither pro nor counter productive, it only matters how many calories you consume during your window of intake.
05-06-2015, 06:45 PM   #144
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Mainly the purpose of fasting is to let your body rest and get rid of bad toxins in the body. It's like how Muslims during Ramadan in the summertime generally feel rejuvenated because all of the sugar and processed stuff is all out of their system, but they continue to eat meat, rice, and other whole foods when they aren't fasting. People may lose or maintain weight depending on their carb and protein intake, but the majority of them gain their weight back once the month is over.

Ramadan in the winter time is a completely different story lol. People definitely gain weight, period.
05-06-2015, 07:11 PM   #145
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I just want to share a little bit of my experience. I am still on the same restrictions, except that I have added in zucchini, summer squash, eggplant, and today some avocado without any problems. I also ate sweet potato once, but I consider it to be a treat.

Anyway, I was at 118 for months because I was detoxing that whole time. I have been gaining weight the last month, and now I weigh about 124. My bms are more solid and consistent, and I am hoping that with my training for Team Challenge that most of the weight I gain will turn into muscle.
05-07-2015, 07:02 AM   #146
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Not if it combats the underlying cause of weight loss - inflammation caused by harmful bacterial overgrowth.

Also Intermittent Fasting is neither pro nor counter productive, it only matters how many calories you consume during your window of intake.
Intermittent fasting would make it harder to gain as you'd have to eat a lot more during the times you eat. If someone has trouble eating enough already, then they're not going to be able to eat extra. If you can eat a lot extra, then you wouldn't be having any trouble gaining weight.

And I'm not sure I understand how fasting cures inflammation/bacteria overgrowth. Do you have links to papers/studies/whatever that show how that works? I'm genuinely asking - not saying you're wrong. When my doctors thought I had SIBO they gave me a load of antibiotics, and would never have dreamed of suggesting I fast. My surgeons had me on bowel rest while my intestine healed from surgery - is that the kind of thing you mean? (I had TPN during that time.) Also how do you know the underlying cause of your weight loss?

Last edited by UnXmas; 05-07-2015 at 08:35 AM.
05-07-2015, 07:34 AM   #147
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I've reached a milestone: I've worked out that I've put on a stone (6kg or 14lbs) since my hospital admission at the start of last Summer. And during that time my intestine perforated, which for obvious reasons stalled things a bit, though eating has been a lot easier since the surgery that fixed the perforation, as the surgeon removed the bad bit of my small intestine, and I got a new stoma which doesn't block like my previous stomas, so I no longer have dietary restrictions because of that.

Only another three stones or something more to gain and I'd be a normal weight.

Last edited by UnXmas; 05-07-2015 at 08:26 AM.
05-07-2015, 04:44 PM   #148
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Intermittent fasting would make it harder to gain as you'd have to eat a lot more during the times you eat. If someone has trouble eating enough already, then they're not going to be able to eat extra. If you can eat a lot extra, then you wouldn't be having any trouble gaining weight.

And I'm not sure I understand how fasting cures inflammation/bacteria overgrowth. Do you have links to papers/studies/whatever that show how that works? I'm genuinely asking - not saying you're wrong. When my doctors thought I had SIBO they gave me a load of antibiotics, and would never have dreamed of suggesting I fast. My surgeons had me on bowel rest while my intestine healed from surgery - is that the kind of thing you mean? (I had TPN during that time.) Also how do you know the underlying cause of your weight loss?
I can link you some threads but you can find all I've found searching MAP bacteria and AIEC on this forum and reading the first 2 pages of results.

If you have trouble with appetite / gaining weight, I'm of the opinion that your diet is not Crohn's friendly and you're going to suffer until it is.

I'm also of the belief that you can enter remission through controlled diet. I'm not saying cure it, but be 100% symptom free without medications.

Source:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2877178/

Now the problem is, if you're not eating a Crohn's safe diet, and you're not a-symptomatic, many of the therapeutic foods you need to be eating you won't be able to tolerate.

It's important to draw a line between trigger foods - ones that make Crohn's worse as a product of their chemistry - and sensitivities - foods that your unhealthy digestive system cannot handle in their current state.

A trigger food would be wheat, a sensitivity would be like fiber, or fat, as high-fat diets are preferable for Crohn's but many struggle with high fat. This is because their digestion isn't working properly due to inflammation and possibly dysbiosis.

The first thing they'll need to do is go on an ultra clean diet until they can reach remission. This may include fasting. For me chicken eggs and dairy let me reach this, it's hard to say what will work for everyone but generally:

-Low to no carb. No simple sugars at all.
-Limit fiber
-Limit greasy foods. If eggs are safe, boil or poach them rather than frying

If you're BARELY eating but you feel completely asymptomatic, this is still preferable to eating 2000 calories and being sick, continue this for 1-2 weeks and begin to incorporate more fat in the form of butter, coconut and extra-virgin olive oil.

I'm digressing a bit on the diet part, I'll give more details on what makes a good CD diet and why if you want, but I'll explain the causality which leads us to the why.

We have a LOT of evidence to suggest Crohn's symptoms are caused by two bacteria. MAP and AIEC.

I may have misunderstood the exact process but this is roughly how it works: Crohn's is a faulty function of our immune system that allows these bacteria to enter our macrophages (the immune cells that normally consume and kill bacteria) and live there while sending out messages requesting a TNF response, so they stimulate an overactive immune response. A weak immune system leading to an overactive response, this summarizes the symptoms to a T.

In order to kill the bacteria very special anti-biotics are required, three of them or more at the same time. Each serves a different purpose.
http://www.redhillbio.com/RHB-104

MAP is a slow-dividing bacteria and most antibiotics attack the bacteria during cell division. Because of this, special antibiotics that can penetrate the protective layer of the cell outside of division are necessary.

It's believed that lauric acid found in coconut oil can dissolve the lipid barrier protecting the bacteria allowing us to naturally combat it.

Consuming large amounts of sugars can quickly breed these harmful bacteria allowing their populations to expand.
http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=44806

So an ideal Crohn's diet starves the bacteria of food while enabling our body to kill it.

That's where this post comes in, but the user didn't post much citation.
http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=52151

The idea is to promote peptides which help fight the bacteria, and to induce autophagy via fasting

User wildbill_52280 posted this:
its not just map thats a problem,there may be a few bacteria that can survive within a cell and persist due to autophagy defects in genes, or even without defects.

stimulating autophagy may eliminate them, i have used resveratrol to do this and i believe it was successfull. did not cause a remission tho.


Fasting or caloric restriction is your best bet for getting a remission, it also stimulates the process of autophagy. autophagy is the process which the body uses to get rid of intracellular pathogens. but this isnt how a Caloric restriction would cause a remission, caloric restriction dramatically lowers inflammation too, and its this that may cause a remission because the inflammation which produces nitrate as a byproduct is what allows the raise in enerobacteria in crohns, as this physiological change fertilizes their growth. by dramatically lowering inflammation, these bacteria will disappear. http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-0...-bacteria.html
05-07-2015, 07:04 PM   #149
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Instant coffee, thanks for the info! I agree with you on almost everything, but disagree on your description of a perfect Crohn's diet. I don't agree with eliminating carbs at all. I know everyone is different, and I certainly don't support eating bleached white flour, but I believe that carbohydrates are and always will be the primary energy source for the human body. Grains like, rice, oats, amaranth, rye, barley, (processed to have little fiber, but not bleached) are easy to digest and packed with energy for your brain and muscles! I also believe that it is important to eliminate meat, beans well cooked or pureed are a much better source of protein, easier to digest, and free from the bacteria that meat has. To gain weight, eating fat is the best way! It's a simple equation, fat has 9 calories per gram, compared to only 4 for a gram of carbohydrate or protein, the body is also very good at converting fat we eat into fat for storage. I just suggest getting fat from plant sources mostly, such as olives, avocados, coconuts, nuts, and fatty seeds. Fasting is good for so many things, I'm considering it to try to reach remission. But as far as gaining weight, I'd say fasting isn't going to help much. I find I actually gain weight when I work out because I balance out my system and build a lot of muscle, working out also increases your appetite.
05-08-2015, 04:26 AM   #150
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Thanks for the info. But even if it's true (I haven't read the links you provided yet), I don't think I could apply it in reality. I have more things wrong with my digestive system than Crohn's, and at the weight I am, I don't know I'd have the energy reserves to fast or to follow a limited calorie diet for very long at all. Also, I've been on various excluion diets in the past and never felt better while on any of them. And shouldn't I have got better while on bowel rest? I healed from the surgery, but nothing else changed. I went a week or so on just TPN and water, then another week eating very little, and I definitely lost weight, (and I've fasted at other times for various reasons with the same results) so it still seems completely obvious to me that fasting and restricting calories conflicts with weight gain. If fasting for a day or two resulted in a significantly improved digestive system that meant it was much easier to gain weight from then on, then it would be worth fasting, but it doesn't.

If you have trouble with appetite / gaining weight, I'm of the opinion that your diet is not Crohn's friendly and you're going to suffer until it is.
I have gastroparesis which means I have no appetite regardless of other symptoms, and since there's a gastroparesis support group on this forum, it could be quite common amoung those with Crohn's. Do you think that can be fixed with diet changes?

I'm sorry to nitpick, but if everyone could get their Crohn's under control with diet, we'd all be doing it. It kind of defeats the purpose of a weight gain support group to talk about fasting. It would be dangerous for those of us who are very underweight.

Last edited by UnXmas; 05-08-2015 at 05:09 AM.
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