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Crohn's Disease Forum » Diet, Fitness, and Supplements » Real maple syrup vs artificial syrup.


06-06-2015, 11:08 AM   #1
D Bergy
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Real maple syrup vs artificial syrup.

Just a surprising observation. Nothing to do with Crohns.

I have avoided eating pancakes,french toast with syrup or sugary toppings because of the uncomfortable blood sugar plunge it causes later on.

I will get sweaty and shaky and then need to eat more sugar to stop the response.

The other eveningy wife made pancakes and decided to try them with some real maple syrup and risk waking up in the middle of the night with the intense sugar drop symptoms.

To my surprise, I had no reaction.

Today I went to a local farmers market and bought some more maple syrup, and asked the person selling it if she knew the reason for the difference. I always thought sugar is sugar and it's all the same. It apparently is not all the same.

She said maple syrup does not spike blood sugar like regular sugar or HFCS. I have to believe that she is correct as that is also my personal experience.

Not a life changing item, but possibly may help in diabetes prevention or liver disease linked with HFCS.

Dan
06-06-2015, 12:09 PM   #2
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Are you sure it's a blood sugar plunge you're experiencing?

I had a couple of extreme blood sugar drops while in hospital after having TPN suddenly stopped. It didn't feel like something you could get from just eating something sugary. Or do you have diabetes or another blood sugar related condition? Do you have to avoid all sugar (is that even possible?)?
06-06-2015, 12:38 PM   #3
D Bergy
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Yeah its blood sugar. It might be a prediabetic condition but not diabetes. At least I have always assumed it is a prediabetic condition.

It can occur eating starches also, if that is all I eat. I can eat sugar as long as I buffer it with other non sugar producing food.

For instance, I can eat pancakes with fake syrup if I eat bacon and eggs with it, but not by itself.

I have not eaten cereal for breakfast for over 30 years because of the sugar drop later. My mother has the same problem.

I can eat bagles with cream cheese for breakfast but not a bagel with jelly. Too much sugar and simple carbs.

Dan
06-06-2015, 01:59 PM   #4
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How low does your blood glucose level go?
06-06-2015, 02:42 PM   #5
D Bergy
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I have never tested it. Since it is avoidable, I just eat accordingly.

If I get in a fix, I drink some orange juice or other sugary product and eat a decent meal and I am fine.

Dan
06-06-2015, 04:18 PM   #6
Robrich
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If you were to go PALEO and eliminate sugar (maple syrup and honey ok)and simple carbs/grains You may be able to mitigate the sugar metabolism issues as your body learns to burn fat rather than sugar.
Just sayin'
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06-06-2015, 09:01 PM   #7
D Bergy
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Your body will burn what it has whether carbs or fats.

I don't eat a lot of simple carbs now just because I don't want to encourage diabetes.

Avoiding simple carbs can be a problem for people with Crohns, but I am controlling mine well presently, so I can eat most anything. Wasn't always the case.

Dan
06-06-2015, 09:23 PM   #8
WingedVictory
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Sounds like hypoglycemia. Robrich, telling someone with this condition to go super low carb can be dangerous. Last I checked grains are COMPLEX carbohydrates and Paleo does NOT recommend to eliminate simple or complex carbs. There is plenty of theory and evolutionary evidence (neoglucogenesis) that our bodies need a moderate amount of carbohydrates to function optimally. Like Say 20 - 30% of daily calorie intake for the average office worker that casually works out, or more depending on your activity level.

As far as our bodies burning fat....that happens when our glycogen stores are depleted...which will happen easily if you're very physically active or consume say ~<50g carbs /day for ketosis. Eating a keto diet isn't something you just jump in the deep end with. For people with hypoglycemia, perhaps more like eating carbs every 2 -3 hours to keep blood sugar stable. Blood sugar issues point to greater concerns with thyroid dysfunction, insulin resistance, which eventually contribute to the development of metabolic syndrome. So you might want to clean up your diet. Try a whole30 or the autoimmune protocol diet if you haven't already. Work on healing any gut issues, reducing stress and inflammation, get more sleep, etc.

On the other hand, for those that don't have hypoglycemia, carbohydrates are best consumed during a meal to minimize symptoms from hyperglycemic toxicity and keep blood sugar stable. The strategy is to eat carb portions of around 200 calories / 50 g with fats, fiber, and acidic foods like vinegar to reduce the glycemic impact.

Just sayin'

Last edited by WingedVictory; 06-06-2015 at 09:51 PM.
06-07-2015, 02:54 AM   #9
D Bergy
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I don't have any gut issues or inflammation now. I really don't have any health problems other than a skiddish knee. I am probably one of the healthiest cronies out there.

I eat real unprocessed food most of the time. I use real butter, no margarine, coconut oil or olive oil for cooking. Grow a good share of our own vegatables.

I also have a full time job and we have our own business with 19 employees besides that so there is plenty of stress and not much sleep. Since I like to stay busy, it's fine with me. I have never had just one job in all of my adult life.

The sugar thing really is no big deal. It has not got any better or worse in 30 years.

I don't follow fad diets. There is a new one every couple of years. It was the Adkins diet a few years ago, now its the paleo diet, it will be another one a couple years from now.

My diet is pretty simple. Eat real food, the less you mess with it the better. Eat a variety of food and if something does not agree with you, don't eat it.

Avoid pesticides, GMO's, additives and anything you cannot pronounce or contains any word with more than five syllables.

I was just surprised that refined sugar was that different than maple syrup. So now I can eliminate more refined sugar from my diet. Refined sugar is probably the deadliest food we consume, in my opinion.

Dan
06-07-2015, 06:30 AM   #10
hugh
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I eat real unprocessed food most of the time. I use real butter, no margarine, coconut oil
I'm under the impression that coconut oil is a pretty good cooking oil (and a pretty good oil in general), Would be interested in your reasons for not using it
The sugar thing really is no big deal. It has not got any better or worse in 30 years.
It does appear that there is something going on, but you would be the best judge of it's magnitude.
I do know that many have bought these issues under control by lowering the glycemic load that they consume (not necessarily less carbs, but in a less rapidly available form or buffered with other foods to smooth out the highs and lows), and others have found 'orthodox' paleo (very low carb) to alleviate their problem.

Your body will burn what it has whether carbs or fats.
True but it is more nuanced than that.
If your blood sugar is continually topped up then there is no need to convert fat to fuel and you will get less efficient at it. If this process were working properly then you would not experience the blood sugar lows as you would convert smoothly from running on carbs to fats
This (from your post "I will get sweaty and shaky and then need to eat more sugar to stop the response.") is obviously not happening.
Becoming 'fat-adapted' is not the same as being in ketosis, it is about retraining a normal metabolic process that has atrophied.....

I don't follow fad diets. There is a new one every couple of years. It was the Adkins diet a few years ago, now its the paleo diet, it will be another one a couple years from now.
There is more than a hint of fad to paleo, but that is inevitable.
I would encourage you to "keep the baby and throw out the bathwater".

My diet is pretty simple. Eat real food, the less you mess with it the better. Eat a variety of food and if something does not agree with you, don't eat it.
Avoid pesticides, GMO's, additives and anything you cannot pronounce or contains any word with more than five syllables.
Can't argue with that at all, but i would suggest that your response to sugar is not healthy as it could be, and retraining your ability to convert smoothly from a sugar burner to a fat burner (and back again) would pay dividends

I was just surprised that refined sugar was that different than maple syrup. So now I can eliminate more refined sugar from my diet. Refined sugar is probably the deadliest food we consume, in my opinion.
I tend to agree, but processed carbs are pretty close
I look forward to hear more as you play around with maple syrup, i understand it to be between "51.7 to 75.6%" sucrose so it still fits into your 'deadliest food we consume' category
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Last edited by hugh; 06-07-2015 at 09:38 AM.
06-07-2015, 12:14 PM   #11
D Bergy
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I wrote that in a confusing way. I do use coconut oil. More of that than any other oil. It is a very healthy oil. I do not avoid fats in general, but keep it within reason.

I know I have the ability to burn fats because I do not eat meals at regular times. Quite often I will not eat all day and will eat one meal in the evening. Usually if I am not doing much physical work. If I am sitting behind a computer all day I really don't need to eat during the day so I dont.

I am aware of the basics of the paleo diet. My son is using it presently. At my age, I have already ferreted out much of that info and can see what makes sense and what is questionable. With all diets, theories, treatments or whatever you have to discern and test to see what is helpful, what is not, and then adapt it into something that accounts for your own peculiarities and then implement some action.

Food allergies or negative responses are something to investigate. At one time I could not tolerate onions. Now I can.
My wife recently developed lactose intolerance. Never had it before, now does. There is something important in these things, but figuring out what is not easy.

My sugar anomaly doesn't fit into a medical catagory, at least not well. I just assume that my body cannot respond fast enough to large swings in blood sugar. I always keep these things on the back of my mind because quite often, the answer will come, but it might be years later. The maple syrup provides a clue. Not an answer, but another piece of a puzzle.

All I do is puzzles. Everything is a big puzzle to me. I try get to the truth of important matters. Disease is my big one now but there are multiple ones in the back of my mind that I keep working on. Some for over twenty years.

I have crohns, my wife has Lyme disease and my son has hidradenitis suppurativa. I also have a daughter with celiac sprue. My mind is always bouncing around from one disease to another asking "why this?". How can I test that? What tools are out there that may help.

My wife and son need my help because there is no other real help out there for them. I test treatments on all of us. It was hugely important to resolve my own disease because I have to try figure out the what and why of theirs, and then a treatment for it.

My wife is doing well, I am doing fine, my daughter ok, but my son is not. He is doing the paleo diet. That's a good thing. He needs the structure of it because he doesn't have the experience to discern things as well. He is much younger than me so he just doesn't have the needed experience.

So you see, I have to kind of prioritize all of this and yet remember all of it for future developments. The sugar thing is a small issue in context so I don't spend much time thinking about it. But I did notice the maple syrup difference. That's a clue.

You are right. Its still sugar and should be used sparingly. But it's better than refined sugar so a better substitute.

The diet puzzle is always being improved. It a life long process. My diet slowly becomes better, but is never perfect. I just keep moving forward.

Thank you all for the interesting discussion.

Dan

Last edited by D Bergy; 06-07-2015 at 12:49 PM.
06-07-2015, 07:05 PM   #12
hugh
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Sounds like you have plenty to deal with and this particular issue is well down the list.
Paleo is a fairly broad church (as i am sure you will know) and there is plenty of bad advice (or advice that might be good for someone else) out there.
As far as diet can help, you might do well to look more closely at the Paleo AI protocol[1], an elimination diet that aims to remove all problematic foods for 30-60 days. It is pretty harsh, but only temporary.
There are plenty of websites and free info, The book is maybe worth a look but maybe too sciency. I recommend getting it through a library before deciding to spend the cash......
Best of luck

[1] http://www.thepaleomom.com/autoimmun...mmune-protocol
06-07-2015, 07:52 PM   #13
WingedVictory
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Is it me or do only certain members get their posts edited by moderators for linking to websites that have material for purchase? Are only new members given a hard time around here about this? I've even found old posts from admins linking to Mark Sisson's website...

As far as the actual subject. I've only recently used 100% pure maple syrup in order to make a buttermint recipe...which is mostly just butter with some sweetener for flavoring. I don't scientifically see how maple syrup would spike blood sugar any less than a syrup made from any other form of sugar. Even the slight variance of sucrose and fructose ratios doesn't seem matter. Is there something that makes it slower to absorb by the body?
06-07-2015, 07:57 PM   #14
hugh
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Is it me or do only certain members get their posts edited by moderators for linking to websites that have material for purchase? Are only new members given a hard time around here about this? I've even found old posts from admins linking to Mark Sisson's website...
only new members...........
Most of these sites give the info away for free, If you still want to join their club/buy their product/worship at their alter, that's your choice

gasp - even mark sisson?, i kinda like alot of what he says, his definitive guides are pretty good[1] (as a starting point?).

Maple syrup has a GI of about 50, whereas sucrose is 75. Might be a partial explanation?

[1] for example.....
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-d...#axzz3cNAJ2eh3
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/categ...#axzz3cNAJ2eh3
06-07-2015, 09:31 PM   #15
The Real MC
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I've been cutting artificial sugars out of my diet. I read the ingredients on the label when I shop at grocery stores. Maple syrup is the only real stuff, anything else is artificial.
06-08-2015, 12:32 AM   #16
Catherine
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It is the mix of sugars.

Real maple syrup is allow on the FODMAP diet. Artificial is not.
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06-08-2015, 05:56 AM   #17
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My sugar anomaly doesn't fit into a medical catagory, at least not well. I just assume that my body cannot respond fast enough to large swings in blood sugar. I always keep these things on the back of my mind because quite often, the answer will come, but it might be years later. The maple syrup provides a clue. Not an answer, but another piece of a puzzle
I found this page D Bergy:

Reactive hypoglycemia (postprandial hypoglycemia) is low blood sugar that occurs after a meal usually within four hours after eating. Low blood sugar (hypoglycemia) usually occurs while fasting. Signs and symptoms of reactive hypoglycemia may include hunger, weakness, shakiness, sleepiness, sweating, lightheadedness, anxiety and confusion.

It's possible to have symptoms that are similar to reactive hypoglycemia without actually having low blood sugar. True reactive hypoglycemia symptoms that are caused by low blood sugar occurring after eating are uncommon. For the majority of people with postprandial symptoms, the actual cause of the symptoms is not clear but may relate to what food was eaten or variations in the timing of the food moving through the stomach and intestinal tract.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-c...a/faq-20057778

So maybe you do fit in a category, either reactive hypoglycemia, or reactive hypoglycemia symptoms without an actual drop in blood sugar.
06-08-2015, 07:49 AM   #18
WingedVictory
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What does a FODMAP approach have to do with blood sugar? Since FODMAP focuses on the elimination of IBS symptoms by avoiding fermentable carbs. If that were valid you'd be worried that bacteria eat the fructose...which I would think would make a high fructose sweetener have less impact on blood sugar. Leading to hypoglycemia symptoms because your blood sugar crashes? So SIBO in this case?

I think the other possible issue would be with fructose malabsorption. You'd need some hard numbers comparing the actual (not estimated) ratios of fructose to glucose (once sucrose is broken down). The average maple syrup would have to have less fructose than those made with HFCS. I believe fructose malabsorption can possibly be related to leaky gut?

I think the way we distinguish between maple syrup and HFCS syrups by using the word "real" is kind of amusing. It's a pretty sad reflection of the processed food industry that they have to put 100% real on the packaging. It's as if most shoppers have thought all these years that Mrs. Buttersworth was the real deal, until they looked at the ingredients. Pffft.
06-08-2015, 04:38 PM   #19
D Bergy
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Well, I think I can rule out hypoglycemia since I can fast without any problems. Since I have identified it with high sugar foods and it does not occur otherwise, I think it is certainly due to a sudden blood sugar drop.

That would leave reactive hypoglycemia. The timing of 4 hours is about right also.

It does depend on what is already in your digestive tract to a degree also.

It is pretty sad when you have this blurred line between what actually is food and what you are able to consume.

At least I have a name for it now.

Dan
06-08-2015, 07:22 PM   #20
teeny5
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I have been using Maple Agave Pancake Syrup by Madhava. Low glycemic, non GMO, organic, vegan. AMAZING.
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Last edited by teeny5; 06-15-2015 at 06:25 AM.
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