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Crohn's Disease Forum » Diet, Fitness, and Supplements » Bye bye meat, bye bye cheese...


07-02-2015, 04:16 AM   #1
MissCadenza
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Bye bye meat, bye bye cheese...

So I had an MRI scan a few weeks ago. The results were basically 'nothing major has changed but you're more inflamed than you ought to be' so it was kind of positive, kind of meh.

Anyway, my doctor suggested a diet change to see if that reduced the inflammation.

Basically he said 'try being vegan for a bit, see how that works out'.

I'm not thrilled about this because I love my meat and my cheese. I do however think it would be beneficial to try it and see how I feel.

But I'm utterly stumped. I wouldn't know how to eat vegan or even where to start looking. Could some of you kind souls point me in the direction of some nice vegan recipes that are full of protein? I love tofu but unfortunately have an allergy to nuts so... yeah.

Thank you!
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07-02-2015, 08:43 AM   #2
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I'm not vegan, but I am lactose intolerant so I can give you some suggestions as to cheese alternatives. There are a lot of things out there such as rice cheese, soy cheese, and I think even hemp cheese! You can find them at most health food stores or higher-end grocery stores. They aren't super cheap, and honestly a lot of them aren't great in terms of how well they'll melt on a pizza etc. But if you're absolutely craving cheese or a pizza, it's worth giving some of those options a try. See which ones you like.

Same goes for milk and yogurt - give those a try. I personally really like soy yogurt, it tastes pretty much the same to me as regular yogurt does. I also really like almond milk, and I have been meaning to try cashew milk. Almond milk is creamy and rich - some of the milk substitutes are pretty weak and watery, but I like almond milk a lot.

I hope that helps a bit! Hopefully others will be able to chime in with more suggestions for you.
07-02-2015, 09:17 AM   #3
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I'm not a doctor, but given my research I don't think it's necessary to give up meats entirely.

You may want to shift toward fish and white meat chicken though.

Dairy on the other hand is a very mixed topic for Crohn's and I could get into all sorts of science on why it may be bad or good or unrelated whether you're looking at it from a bacterial sense, lactose intolerance, or the high hydroxytryptophan content.

Personally, cheese and meat have no effect on me, but I think it's important from the bacterial aspect of our condition to increase the amount of tolerable complex carbs and fibers in our diet while moderating intake of dairy and meat.

The important thing is to reduce simple sugars and refined carbohydrates. It's bad for those with IBD on just about every level. If you MUST consume them I suggest including psyllium husks in your diet. Avoid corn syrup, sugar, dextrose, maltodextrin and sucrose in large doses and try to make sure any you do eat is closely followed with a fiber containing complex carb like oats, potatoes or bananas.
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07-02-2015, 09:53 AM   #4
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Did he give a reason why he thought vegan was a good idea as opppse to any other diet changes? I think it wouldn't be an easy diet for many with Crohn's, if you have issues with fibre ruling out most fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts and seeds, and still try to be vegan, you won't have much left to eat.

Being vegan would mean an improvement if dairy is an issue, but it would be simpler to just give up dairy. Red meat may also be hard to digest. But like InstantCoffee said, white meat and fish tend to be safe foods. I think eggs are safe for many too.

That said, if you think you can make it work, I think it can be a very healthy diet. There are two forum members who may help you, VeganOstomy and Ann Morgan. I think Ann Morgan is just starting out with being vegan so maybe you can help each other out a bit.
07-02-2015, 09:55 AM   #5
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InstantCoffee - I think I eat too much meat (especially the red stuff) so that's why doc has suggested I cut it out entirely to see if it improves how I feel. He did say this vegan thing is an extreme elimination diet but it's only a couple of weeks and I think I can survive without steak for that long.

I certainly eat too much cheese, that's a huge thing for me but since I had this last flare up I've been feeling grim when I have eaten it. I can't have milk, period, unless it's cooked in a sauce or something so I won't really miss that. Ditto cream, so I use the soy equivalent.

Funnily enough refined sugars and carbs have zero bad effect on me. I can wolf down what most people perceive as junk food without anything bad happening. I do make my own white bread though, so obviously it doesn't have the fillers and stabilisers supermarket bread does.

Looking at my food diary I don't seem to eat that many processed foods. My main diet is meat, *insert white carb here*, vegetables (peeled and steamed) and maybe a dab of sauce just to make them a bit more interesting. Breakfast is usually overnight oats made with soy milk and maple syrup, topped with *insert berry here*. Currently it's blueberries cuz they were on offer.

Luckily I rejoice in lentils so I'm going to eat more of those. I've found a few recipes from googling around at lunchtime including a really tasty-sounding butternut squash and sweet potato curry. Mmm. I think I might make that this weekend.

Cat - I'm a fan of soy milk and soy yoghurt already so those are a good thing. My nut allergy means all of the nut milks are a no-no. Rice milk makes good porridge, I find! I must try soy cheese, I've seen it in the supermarket but not ever actually eaten it. And of course there's always tofu. I have actually used it to make cheesecake before and weirdly, it works!
07-02-2015, 07:58 PM   #6
hugh
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Anyway, my doctor suggested a diet change to see if that reduced the inflammation.
Basically he said 'try being vegan for a bit, see how that works out'.
Sounds like he suggested it because he doesn't have anything else to offer?

Funnily enough refined sugars and carbs have zero bad effect on me. I can wolf down what most people perceive as junk food without anything bad happening. I do make my own white bread though, so obviously it doesn't have the fillers and stabilisers supermarket bread does.
This is the bit that most people don't understand, There is a lot going on but it can help to divide it into two very separate events.
Crohn's is an immune reaction, your immune system is attacking bacteria in your gut and the aftermath of this battle is crohn's disease, for whatever reason, your immune system has decided that certain bacteria are a problem, and has programmed T-Cells to attack them.....
This is very different and separate from the pain and discomfort that you feel when you eat certain foods. In this instance it might be caused by the overgrowth of bacteria going to work on a carb (lactose, fructose, complex carb like wheat), having a bit old party and causing gas, bloating, diarrhoea, cramps or maybe something coarse (like nuts of broccoli) sliding down an ulcerated section of intestine causing pain.

It is very possible that the junk food/processed foods is feeding the bacterial imbalance that leads to the immune reaction but these foods don't cause noticeable symptoms
To combat the second problem (symptoms after eating certain foods) something like FODMAPS [1] would be appropriate.
It is becoming more widely recognised that grains,flours and sugars are inflammatory so perhaps after this experiment you might want to conciser a different 'anti-inflammatory diet [2]

The problem with labels like 'vegan. paleo, vegetarian etc is that it is just as possible to eat a very unhealthy version of the diet as it is to eat a healthy version.
A vegan diet can be quite healthy except for the obvious deficiencies (which can be supplemented for), but it can also be full of shit (7-Eleven 7 Select Strawberry Creme Cookies and Doritos Spicy Sweet Chili Flavored Tortilla Chips are apparently vegan).

If there are no philosophical leanings towards veganism (and i assume that there aren't "I'm not thrilled about this because I love my meat and my cheese") then maybe look at the diets that are used specifically for IBD with some success,
The common feature seems to be a severe temporary restriction of all carbs as a means of bringing gut bacteria back under control and a long term restriction of 'acellular' carbs, that is carbs that are overly processed like flour and processed foods........

I think I eat too much meat (especially the red stuff) so that's why doc has suggested I cut it out entirely to see if it improves how I feel. He did say this vegan thing is an extreme elimination diet but it's only a couple of weeks and I think I can survive without steak for that long.
Sounds like he is only suggesting it as a temporary measure, and I am all for informed self experimentation, but please don't buy into the “this is the healthy diet for everyone so if it doesn't work it is because you are not doing it right” mentality
We eat more meat that we should, I am cutting it back and replacing it with vegetable and sprouts, but I have no desire at all to go vegan, and see no reason so long as I can buy grass fed meat.
Obviously real meat is more expensive that the nasty stuff at the supermarket, so reducing the amount and increasing the quality is a good idea


I certainly eat too much cheese, that's a huge thing for me but since I had this last flare up I've been feeling grim when I have eaten it. I can't have milk, period, unless it's cooked in a sauce or something so I won't really miss that. Ditto cream, so I use the soy equivalent.
Sound like a lactose issue,

[1] a good fodmaps podcast , I like to listen to them while walking in nature (or doing the dishes)
Dr. Siebecker Explains the Art and Science of the FODMAP Diet (Podcast 45)
http://scdlifestyle.com/2012/09/dr-s...et-podcast-45/

[2] Something like PHD diet, or Paleo, Pegan, GAPS, SCD,
Perfect Health Diet - Bowel Disorders, Part I: About Gut Disease
"If we prioritize these in terms of damage caused, then ulcerative colitis is an infectious and autoimmune disease, since these two factors do the most severe damage. It is generally unclear which is doing the most damage. Food toxins and malnutrition continue to be secondary sources of damage.
On the other hand, if we prioritize chronologically in terms of the original causes, the disease is originally caused by food toxins and malnutrition and sometimes antibiotics, which cause intestinal damage and infections, followed by autoimmunity. "

http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/07...g-gut-disease/


Comparison with ancestral diets suggests dense acellular carbohydrates promote an inflammatory microbiota, and may be the primary dietary cause of leptin resistance and obesity
"The present hypothesis suggests that in parallel with the bacterial effects of sugars on dental and periodontal health, acellular flours, sugars, and processed foods produce an inflammatory microbiota via the upper gastrointestinal tract,"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402009/
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Last edited by hugh; 07-02-2015 at 08:19 PM.
07-02-2015, 10:58 PM   #7
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Meat eggs and milk have no fiber. Good bacteria in the gut need fiber to grow and provide benefits. fermented dairy may have some benefits for the GI tract however. The biggest concern is where you will get your calcium from anything but cal citrate and you'll be fine.
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07-03-2015, 02:12 AM   #8
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Sounds like he suggested it because he doesn't have anything else to offer?
No, he suggested it because he knows my symptoms are made worse by certain foods and we need to pinpoint which one as it might have caused this massive flare-up. Don't think he's some kind of hack doctor, he actually knows what he's doing. We've done every scan and test we could think of, so he's suggested this diet to try and see if there's an improvement. Previous elimination experiments, usually with just one or two foods, have been successful so this is just another one of them as far as I'm concerned. Hey, if it makes me feel better I'm all for it.

Crohn's is an immune reaction, your immune system is attacking bacteria in your gut and the aftermath of this battle is crohn's disease, for whatever reason, your immune system has decided that certain bacteria are a problem, and has programmed T-Cells to attack them.....
Really? I thought it was just a tummy ache? /sarcasm/ - sorry it's early and I need more coffee..

This is very different and separate from the pain and discomfort that you feel when you eat certain foods. In this instance it might be caused by the overgrowth of bacteria going to work on a carb (lactose, fructose, complex carb like wheat), having a bit old party and causing gas, bloating, diarrhoea, cramps or maybe something coarse (like nuts of broccoli) sliding down an ulcerated section of intestine causing pain.
The reason for trying this diet is to see if the pain goes away because there IS probably some kind of reaction to some food somewhere and we need to find out what. We don't know. That's why we're trying it. As for the 'coarse' food sliding down, I don't eat much that could be described as 'coarse' and I still get the pain when I have stuff like soups or yoghurt so... that doesn't seem likely.

It is very possible that the junk food/processed foods is feeding the bacterial imbalance that leads to the immune reaction but these foods don't cause noticeable symptoms
Possible, but how come I have never, ever had an issue after eating junk food? Ever? Surely if there's a bacterial imbalance it would cause symptoms? Your previous paragraph indicates the bacteria would 'party' on certain foods and being as 'junk food' is full of carbs and associated crap then I should be experiencing problems.

To combat the second problem (symptoms after eating certain foods) something like FODMAPS [1] would be appropriate.
Never heard of it.

It is becoming more widely recognised that grains,flours and sugars are inflammatory so perhaps after this experiment you might want to conciser a different 'anti-inflammatory diet [2]
Might be trying a gluten free diet after this, so we'll see.

The problem with labels like 'vegan. paleo, vegetarian etc is that it is just as possible to eat a very unhealthy version of the diet as it is to eat a healthy version.
A vegan diet can be quite healthy except for the obvious deficiencies (which can be supplemented for), but it can also be full of shit (7-Eleven 7 Select Strawberry Creme Cookies and Doritos Spicy Sweet Chili Flavored Tortilla Chips are apparently vegan).
I'm fully aware of this. I'm actually an intelligent person who has done her research. Plus Doritos are grim. Seriously how do people even eat those?

If there are no philosophical leanings towards veganism (and i assume that there aren't "I'm not thrilled about this because I love my meat and my cheese") then maybe look at the diets that are used specifically for IBD with some success,
Hell no, I'd never go vegan full time. I'm skeptical about changing diets at all because I thought I had a handle on what I ate but after this last flare and him not being able to pinpoint something other than 'your immune system has gone nuts and turned your gut into a hotbed of inflammation' we thought we'd try some different food elimination to see if anything helps. The changed medication is helping as well but he wants to see if we can stop this happening again. I'm already climbing up the walls because I've not had any cheese for 24 hours and breakfast is melon, blueberries and maple syrup. I'm going crazy. How people do this full time is beyond me.

The common feature seems to be a severe temporary restriction of all carbs as a means of bringing gut bacteria back under control and a long term restriction of 'acellular' carbs, that is carbs that are overly processed like flour and processed foods........
Which I don't each much of. I make my own bread and eat very few processed foods. White pasta, white rice etc are processed, I know, but apart from those my diet is pretty unprocessed.

Sounds like he is only suggesting it as a temporary measure, and I am all for informed self experimentation, but please don't buy into the “this is the healthy diet for everyone so if it doesn't work it is because you are not doing it right” mentality
If it works, it works, if it doesn't, it doesn't. Simple as that. I'm 35 and too old to be buying into fads, I did that when I was about eighteen.

We eat more meat that we should, I am cutting it back and replacing it with vegetable and sprouts, but I have no desire at all to go vegan, and see no reason so long as I can buy grass fed meat. Obviously real meat is more expensive that the nasty stuff at the supermarket, so reducing the amount and increasing the quality is a good idea
'Real' meat? What do you mean by 'real' meat? If you mean organic/free range there's not much difference in flavour, just the price and a nice sanctimonious feeling when you buy it that you've bought a cut of meat from a 'happy' animal that was happy right up to the point you stuck a bolt through it's brain.
07-03-2015, 03:47 AM   #9
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My spidey sense is picking up a hint of sarcasm?, perhaps with a touch of hostility?
Never mind, might be the diet deprivation grumps.........
Sounds like you are not rushing into anything foolishly but I will try to clarify and leave you to your experiment

he suggested it because he knows my symptoms are made worse by certain foods and we need to pinpoint which one as it might have caused this massive flare-up. Don't think he's some kind of hack doctor, he actually knows what he's doing............ so he's suggested this diet to try and see if there's an improvement. Previous elimination experiments, usually with just one or two foods, have been successful so this is just another one of them as far as I'm concerned. Hey, if it makes me feel better I'm all for it.
Don't know how you look at it, but as I see it going vegan is only eliminating three foods -meat, eggs and dairy. Eggs and dairy are well known to be problematic, and meat sometimes but digestive enzymes often solve that.
A well thought out elimination diet would remove everything that might be likely to cause a problem, especially the foods most likely to cause problems (gluten, soy, dairy, eggs, chemicals (processed foods)) rather than picking one thing at random (i'm just going by the post, if there is more logic to it than you have shared so far, please let us know). There are interactions and cascades going on.

Eliminating a couple of foods doesn't give as clear a picture as a complete elimination diet

Really? I thought it was just a tummy ache? /sarcasm/ - sorry it's early and I need more coffee..
For a while there coffee was instant diarrhoea for me (have coffee, look for toilet, and start heading there). I kept drinking it, but I don't think it helped

The reason for trying this diet is to see if the pain goes away because there IS probably some kind of reaction to some food somewhere and we need to find out what. We don't know. That's why we're trying it. As for the 'coarse' food sliding down, I don't eat much that could be described as 'coarse' and I still get the pain when I have stuff like soups or yoghurt so... that doesn't seem likely.
My point was, if you eat something and it hurts/cramps/squirts/whatever, it is telling you that you are not digesting that food well, but it does not tell you anything about why you are not digesting that food well.

Possible, but how come I have never, ever had an issue after eating junk food? Ever? Surely if there's a bacterial imbalance it would cause symptoms? Your previous paragraph indicates the bacteria would 'party' on certain foods and being as 'junk food' is full of carbs and associated crap then I should be experiencing problems.
Your not reading what i'm writing. If someone is, say, lactose intolerant then they cannot digest lactose, maybe lactase production has been impaired, maybe they have SIBO, so it will be digested by bacteria which creates gas, bloating, cramps. It is a symptom of the problem, not the problem.

Never heard of it.
The FODMAP diet identifies 4 categories of fermentable carbohydrates (Fermentable Oligosaccharides, Disaccharides, Monosaccharides and Polyols) and steers you towards foods that are low in these carbs, then they are regularly reintroduced and tested to see if they are tolerated

Might be trying a gluten free diet after this, so we'll see
Worth a go but "one thing at a time elimination" is the least effective way to do it.

I'm fully aware of this. I'm actually an intelligent person who has done her research. Plus Doritos are grim. Seriously how do people even eat those?
Glad to hear it, but half the population is below average intelligence so don't be offended just because you are on the higher side, Vegan is a very broad term, there is very little overlap between a raw vegan and a grainatarian

Which I don't each much of. I make my own bread and eat very few processed foods. White pasta, white rice etc are processed, I know, but apart from those my diet is pretty unprocessed.
Beard and pasta is enough, maybe on the next elimination they will be ditched. White rice is (to my way of thinking) a good food if all is well but may feed an overgrowth if it is already present

If it works, it works, if it doesn't, it doesn't. Simple as that. I'm 35 and too old to be buying into fads, I did that when I was about eighteen.
good attitude, a willingness to try things and evaluate results

'
Real' meat? What do you mean by 'real' meat? If you mean organic/free range there's not much difference in flavour, just the price and a nice sanctimonious feeling when you buy it that you've bought a cut of meat from a 'happy' animal that was happy right up to the point you stuck a bolt through it's brain.
Hmmmm, where to start?
-On the farm?
If you can't tell the difference in cruelty and welfare between a pastured animal and a CAFO then I have serious doubts about which side of average you fall on.
The difference between killing and animal, and torturing it's whole life and then killing it is pretty obvious. The difference between eating a healthy animal and a sick animal?
Feeding cows ground up chickens (that were fed ground up cows)?
The difference in fatty acid profiles (grain fed has higher omega-6 than grass fed and it has been shown to be inflammatory), pesticides, antibiotics, stress, not to mention environmental degradation (cow shit enriches soil so grass can grow, some farmers like Joel Salatin have taken this to a higher level). Cafo relies on fossil fuels every step of the way, to make fertiliser, grow grain, transport grain, and lakes of shit that the cows are knee deep in and can't be used because it is so toxic.
The increased rate of foodbourne illness?
And its worse for chickens and farmed fish
-In the processing?
I buy a whole lamb at a time, It comes from an abattoir so I don't know too much about it except that is is grass fed and lived in a field.
I get the whole animal cut up and it goes in the freezer to keep the price down. It is not organic.
I get some of it minced
If I went to the supermarket and bought mince it could be from as many as 100 different animals, if I bought a hamburger from a fast food chain it could be a mixture of 1000 animals. At this level of processing, they just about shove the whole animal into a huge grinder, with huge amounts of faeces mixed in.
In a processed meal, did the meat come from china?, irish horses?, floor sweepings?
Did your butcher glue offcuts together with 'meat glue'
Is that hamburger less than 50% filler?
I'll go with the 'sanctimonious' feeling of knowing that on every level including taste, it is a superior product and better for me and the planet.
Having said that, it would be one of the latter changes that I would make if I had to do it all again. Far less beneficial (for me) than getting my carbs in order


If you are interested and still feel a need after your Vegan adventure you might want to check out some other diets,
Most people don't seem to realise it but SCD and GAPS are elimination diets (when done according to the instructions), FODMAPS is an elimination diet, and so too is my personal 'shit, that looks hard' favourite, the Paleo AI protocol

Wishing you all the best.
07-03-2015, 04:09 AM   #10
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Sucks that you can't have coffee, I think I'd die if I didn't have it. Soy latte in my hand right now, I'm so happy.

As for the meat thing, I believe there's a difference between animals as pets and animals as commodity and as far as I'm concerned meat is meat however it was treated, and the poor animal is going to die anyway so I may as well enjoy eating it wherever it came from. I'm not hugely bothered by if it's organic or whatever. EU standards mean everything we get is pretty much okay, even the crappy cheap Basics range you see in supermarkets. In fact our animals are treated pretty well, all things considered.

And you're right, I'm having the diet grumps in a big way. No cheese is doing me in faster than I thought it would. No meat isn't so bad. I'm kind of hungry though but some popcorn will solve that. Thank god popcorn (if you make it with veg oil and just sprinkle it with sugar) is vegan.
07-03-2015, 04:58 AM   #11
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Just a few other thoughts. If I was having a flare I might be up for trying out some changes to my diet. If my results were "kind of meh" and the consultant suggested following a vegan diet... I'd be looking for a new consultant.
I think most of us develop quite an insight into what we can and cannot eat, even though we sometimes get it wrong. Keeping a food diary is always a good idea.
For the record, I've had Crohns for 40 years and I was vegetarian for almost 30 of those years. I was vegetarian because I'm not happy with thought of eating an animal, simple as that. About a year ago I started eating meat again, for health reasons. I don't eat a lot of it and I don't eat it every day.... but I have actually felt better as a result. Is it purely psychological? Who cares?
Fundamentally, I don't eat too much of anything... little and often works for me. The same goes for coffee, I'd rather have one cup of good coffee than five cups of nasty stuff.
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07-03-2015, 05:30 AM   #12
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Hi Miss Cadenza,

I am a Vegan and it is the right diet for me and helps me to feel well.

If you are going to go for a vegan diet, I would advise that you transition slowly so that way you can find out which foods you enjoy and which don't agree with you. Perhaps start by having one vegan meal a day and then add in more vegan foods as you go along. My diet consists of fruit, veg, sprouted grains and legumes and dark leafy greens and some nuts and seeds - that works well for me but obviously diet is an individual thing so its about finding what works for you and what you enjoy.

I also drink a green smoothie every day - that is dark leafy greens like kale, spinach etc in a high speed blender with fruit and water. These are an excellent source of easily absorbable nutrition. In particular, dark leafy greens like kale are an excellent source of easily absorbed plant based calcium which is important as I know calcium intake can be an area of concern for some on a vegan diet. If you are interested in green smoothies there is a huge amount of info online and loads of recipes.
07-03-2015, 05:43 AM   #13
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Hi
Just a few other thoughts. If I was having a flare I might be up for trying out some changes to my diet. If my results were "kind of meh" and the consultant suggested following a vegan diet... I'd be looking for a new consultant.
Oh, no, the results weren't kind of meh, I felt kind of meh because it was good that nothing evil was wrong with me but also sort of 'meh' because there were no definite answers after all these tests as to what was making me flare.

As for him suggesting the diet I agreed with it because he knows a lot of my issues do come from the way my body reacts to food and like I said we've eliminated a few things already that aggravate my symptoms. I have another problem in my actual stomach so anything that starts off bad there then filters down and upsets the gut, which upsets the crohns which then upsets me.

I've been having a google around and have found some nice little recipes I'm going to try. To be honest I think I can adapt what I already eat, I just need to sit down and work it out.
07-03-2015, 12:13 PM   #14
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Sugar may not have made you feel bad but that doesn't make it harmless.

Sugar up regulates bile acid production. Crohn's patients already have a problem with bile acid production and re-absorption because they don't have enough taurine to convert their primary bile acids into secondary bile acids.

This leads to an environment conducive to the overgrowth of harmful bacteria like c. diff.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3448089/

So you may not notice effects directly from sugar, but it creates them over time.

Summary of diet-induced dysbiosis.

Diet Bacteria Altered Effect on Bacteria References
High-fat
Bifidobacteria spp. Decreased (absent) [45]
High-fat and high-sugar
Clostridium innocuum, Catenibacterium mitsuokai and Enterococcus spp. Increased [18]
Bacteroides spp. Decreased [18]

Carbohydrate-reduced
Bacteroidetes Increased [49]

Calorie-restricted
Clostridium coccoides, Lactobacillus spp. and Bifidobacteria spp. Decreased (growth prevented) [48]

Complex carbohydrates
Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis and Enterobacteriaceae Decreased [49]
B. longum subspecies longum, B.breve and B. thetaiotaomicron Increased [53]
Refined sugars
C. difficile and C. perfringens Increased [54,55]
Vegetarian E. coli Decreased [56]
High n-6 PUFA from safflower oil
Bacteroidetes Decreased [59,60]
Firmicutes, Actinobacteria and Proteobacteria Increased [59,60]
δ-Proteobacteria Increased [61]
Animal milk fat
δ-Proteobacteria Increased [62]


In Crohn's we want to upregulate Firmicuets, Bifido and Clostridia strains, down regulate Bacteroidetes. Proteobacteria are helpful but secondary.
07-04-2015, 12:27 AM   #15
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I only came on here asking for recipes and all I've had is a load of people spouting science at me.

If you're not actually a qualified doctor or a scientist then I don't think a bunch of stuff you've dragged off Google is going to help.

My doctor knows what he's doing. He knows how my body responds to food. I know how my body responds to food.

Now will someone give me some nice vegan recipes or I'm out of here. I can use Google and I have but was wondering if there were any resources I didn't know about that were maybe buried on page 10 of the search results.

All your waffling about sugar and using long words might make you feel clever and make someone a bit more gullible than me believe you know what you're talking about but you're not doctors so I'm going to ignore you.

Recipes please!
07-04-2015, 01:20 AM   #16
hugh
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I know this is a bit obvious, but any recipe without meat or animal products.
There are thousands of websites out there - Google it........

You want good advice on being vegan?
Avoid the proceed crap , anything else is ok if it is tolerated
There-in lies the rub.....
Using something like FODMAPS you would determine what foods are tolerated and then you could find recipes that are to your needs.
Ask your doctor about FODMAPS

You want our favorite vegan recipes?
I'd share mine but it has nuts in it......
07-04-2015, 05:52 AM   #17
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I asked a friend of mine who recommended this site: https://m.youtube.com/#/user/thevegancorner/

And also said if you google vegan red dragon pie recipes you should easily find some.
07-04-2015, 05:57 AM   #18
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I only came on here asking for recipes and all I've had is a load of people spouting science at me.

If you're not actually a qualified doctor or a scientist then I don't think a bunch of stuff you've dragged off Google is going to help.

My doctor knows what he's doing. He knows how my body responds to food. I know how my body responds to food.

Now will someone give me some nice vegan recipes or I'm out of here. I can use Google and I have but was wondering if there were any resources I didn't know about that were maybe buried on page 10 of the search results.

All your waffling about sugar and using long words might make you feel clever and make someone a bit more gullible than me believe you know what you're talking about but you're not doctors so I'm going to ignore you.

Recipes please!
How about this - worlds biggest collection of vegan recipes

http://www.vegweb.com/
07-04-2015, 10:30 PM   #19
Mr chicken
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Lots of different higher end supermarkets
Have vegan foods premarked
Ds was put on a similar diet ( only added formula as well since he is still a growing kid) for the similar reasons by his Gi
Here is the diet
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24983973/

Things I make for him
Scrambled eggs with potato and tomatoes ( you could add rice /spinach as well)
Magazine clean eating has lots of veggie recipes
Salmon works well as a high omega 3 fish
Just canola or olive oil plus lemon juice and salt
Seal in a foil packet and bake - very easy
I found getting a single pricey fresh fish at the market and cooking it that day much easier
Nut allergy makes some things tough - Ds outgrew his so btdt on recipes

Spiral zucchini /squash noodles with onions/leeks cooked in canola oil( high omega 3) plus butternut squash is also good - I sometimes add a cut up baked potato to the pan for a little more calories

Precut fruit is easy to store in the fridge for quick snacks
Hummus to dip veggies in as well
Sub guacamole for sour cream on things
Eggplant dipped in Egg and baked can be added to sanwiches or cook lentil "meatballs"
For a taco with tomatoes etc
Stick with naturally meat/dairy free dishes first
Replacement dairy will it taste the same for you
In terms of cheese

Smoothies with coconut milk (make your fresh from dehydrated coconut shreds plus water )
Coconut typically is safe for nut allergic folks but check with your doc first
Add berries or veggies plus honey and crushed ice

Same with purée pumpkin can be used as the base of the smoothie.
Good luck
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07-04-2015, 10:44 PM   #20
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Have you heard of the simple carbohydrate diet? I recommend buying the book "breaking the vicious cycle".

It is specifically designed for sufferers of IBS and Crohn's and has helped tens of thousands of people.
07-06-2015, 02:03 AM   #21
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How about this - worlds biggest collection of vegan recipes

http://www.vegweb.com/
Ah, oh my, thank you so much. That's really useful!

I seem to be coping okay so far. I'm baffled by how many different ways there are to make tofu not suck. And sweet potato/butternut squash curry is THE BEST THING EVER.
07-06-2015, 06:16 AM   #22
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Ah, oh my, thank you so much. That's really useful!

I seem to be coping okay so far. I'm baffled by how many different ways there are to make tofu not suck. And sweet potato/butternut squash curry is THE BEST THING EVER.
No problem - I would definitely recommend looking into green smoothies too - they are nutritious and delicious!
07-06-2015, 09:43 PM   #23
VeganOstomy
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Anyway, my doctor suggested a diet change to see if that reduced the inflammation.

Basically he said 'try being vegan for a bit, see how that works out'.
First off, I commend your doctor for pointing you in a positive direction (temporary or otherwise).

You may want to check out the Dr. McDougall forum for recipes; they are whole-food, plant-based, and many of his forum members have used his own version of plant-based diet to help with their IBD.

For recipes, I'd suggest starting with:
https://www.youtube.com/user/thevegancorner/
http://www.youtube.com/user/MokoBrownVegan
https://www.youtube.com/user/healthyvegan

Although there are so many more, depending on how you want to structure the diet: whole foods or simply replacements for the way you've been currently eating.

Wishing you the best!
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