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Crohn's Disease Forum » Diet, Fitness, and Supplements » Prebiotics and probiotics


07-16-2015, 01:04 AM   #1
Lady Organic
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Prebiotics and probiotics

Ive been working on increasing my natural intake of prebiotics and probiotics since a few months:

I Eat 750ml to 1.5L of non-pasteurized sauerkraut/week (drink the juice),

lots of vegetables naturally rich in inulin (onion, garlic, asparagus) and

Extracted chicory root extract inulin about 10g/day (2 scoops) I should increase it to 15g. The extracted inulin is by no doubt fermentable and I feel a lot of gas passing!

I wonder if I should return to consuming probiotics supplements or if I have enough with the sauerkraut...?

http://eatandbeatcancer.com/2012/02/...t-butyrateyum/

http://eatandbeatcancer.com/2014/04/...entable-fiber/

Prebiotics: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/137/11/2503S.full
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''UC-like Crohn's'' since 2001:
on: 25mg 6-MP (purinethol)+ B12 shots
minor hands/wrists chronic arthritis since 01/2013

Diet: ''IBD-AID'' : http://www.nutritionj.com/content/13/1/5+ organic food only
suppl Curcuminoid extract, Inulin,psyllium, apple pectin, Vitamin D

past meds:
pred 50mg, 5-ASA, cortifoam, Imuran (failed) Purinethol (success) methotrexate (failed CD and arthritis).
07-16-2015, 08:51 AM   #2
nogutsnoglory
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My concern with prebiotics is that they feed the bacteria and we don't know what role bad bacteria may be playing in IBD. I'm afraid to feed the bad guys.
07-16-2015, 10:19 AM   #3
InstantCoffee
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Summary of diet-induced dysbiosis.

Diet Bacteria Altered Effect on Bacteria References
High-fat
Bifidobacteria spp. Decreased (absent) [45]
High-fat and high-sugar
Clostridium innocuum, Catenibacterium mitsuokai and Enterococcus spp. Increased [18]
Bacteroides spp. Decreased [18]

Carbohydrate-reduced
Bacteroidetes Increased [49]

Calorie-restricted
Clostridium coccoides, Lactobacillus spp. and Bifidobacteria spp. Decreased (growth prevented) [48]

Complex carbohydrates
Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis and Enterobacteriaceae Decreased [49]
B. longum subspecies longum, B.breve and B. thetaiotaomicron Increased [53]
Refined sugars
C. difficile and C. perfringens Increased [54,55]
Vegetarian
E. coli Decreased [56]
High n-6 PUFA from safflower oil
Bacteroidetes Decreased [59,60]
Firmicutes, Actinobacteria and Proteobacteria Increased [59,60]
δ-Proteobacteria Increased [61]
Animal milk fat
δ-Proteobacteria Increased [62]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3448089/
Diets rich in complex carbohydrates show less pathogenic species such as Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis and Enterobacteriaceae [49] than diets higher in fat or protein [48,50,51,52].
Refined sugars, on the other hand, mediate the overgrowth of opportunistic bacteria like C. difficile [54] and C. perfringens by increasing bile output [55]

Check out posts 43 and 44 in my log for more stuff on pre and probiotics with some links.


I'm currently pounding down baby green bananas. I have a prebiotic fiber blend supplement I take by Optimum Nutrition, an FOS capsule, and a bifido / lacto pill I take that has prebiotics included.

There's been some gas but manageable.

I've definitely felt an improvement in my gut health.
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07-16-2015, 10:31 AM   #4
Lady Organic
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ive been reading quite some interesting articles about the possible protective role of Butyrate, fermentable fibers for colon cancer and colitis and this is definately something I want to explore. I have remained 13 years being concerned or afraid to take natural supplements to try to help me. My first GI scared me and kept me away from trying these. Right now, I have gained independance from the doctor's opinion and more insight over my disease. i still value greatly my dr opinion, but I know there are some things I need to take care on my own. im honestly having more concerned about the medication I take and the other few left in stores for me compared to natural supplements. i open up to natural alternatives and prefer exploring this avenue with the ''risk'' that this include.
07-16-2015, 10:52 AM   #5
InstantCoffee
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Some interesting stuff here, Psyllium is slightly prebiotic.

http://examine.com/supplements/Psyllium/

7.7. Inflammatory Bowel Diseases

In persons undergoing remission for ulcerative colitis, it appears that supplementation of psyllium husk seeds at 10g twice daily (for a total daily dose of 20g) is able to sustain remission with a potency comparable to 500mg mesalamine (thrice daily dosing) with the two being slightly additive.[63]

Appears to preserve remission in persons with inflammatory bowel diseases
Despite the aforementioned poor fermentability, some degree of short chain fatty acids (specifically, butyrate) have been found in the feces of subjects consuming 10g of psyllium husk twice daily.[63]
It does however limit glucose absorption. I'm not sure if that's bad or good. It might transport it to the large intestine where our gut flora could eat it, or it might just leave it for bad bacteria, or it might just pass in stool and be wasted calories.
07-16-2015, 08:22 PM   #6
Robrich
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Hi lady O
I believe the latest thinking on probiotics is species diversification. The sauerkraut is mostly lacto b. Acidophilus I think. You may want to diversify.
Yogurt has 4 good ones.
Kefir has 12
Kombucha has s. Boulardis sometimes very helpful
The quantity of probiotics in kraut and yogurt etc is much higher than supplements
Of course in either case quality and storage is everything
Enjoy
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DX. Crohns 50 yrs. with fistulas for 20 years until remicade
Meds: MTX,ENTYVIO 9/14' augmentin,
pred. 10mg.
probiotics
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Past: humira no response after 6 mos., remicade amazing for 10 years then stopped working.
Entocort
6mp, Imuran never helped nasty side effects liver problems, caught pneumonia
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Flagyl worked well but got PN cipro same.
07-17-2015, 08:01 AM   #7
RNGirl
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Be careful with pre and probiotics containing Inulin (chicory root). If you are fructose/fructan intolerant they could exacerbate your symptoms. Many IBS and IBD people are FODMAP intolerant. Culturelle for one has Inulin in it. Read the labels if you don't tolerate FODMAP's.
07-17-2015, 08:47 AM   #8
Lady Organic
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thx all.

Im not intolerant to Fodmap. I react very well to Inulin. I had stopped taking it for a few days along with my table spoon of sprouted Ground flax seed for observation and my stool consistency deteriorated. I introduced it back 5 days ago and instantly, the next the consistency has been improuved. Not sure if its the inulin or the flax seeds or what else or just conincidence. Inulin Gives me increase gas, but I find it simply funny, they are not painful at all. Im going to increase the inulin at 12 mg a day, so 3 scoops as of today. Bloating or ongoing discomfort from any food has never a been a symptom of my recto-colitis. I feel its actually reassuring to pass many gas in security without the feeling of possible leakage or stool being too close. I feel really far from that and thats great, so I smile when I pass a gas now! last night I even had a complete normal BM for which I had to push hard! This had not happened since I was in peak remission at 50mg of steroids. Im feeling truly on the right track now.

I'd love to consume Kombucha again, but i cut all sugar at 100% since a while now. I have a recipe with for vegetarian kefir, but I cut citrus fruits as well unfortunately. i do not consume dairy product either. Im going to look at probiotics in the healthfood store. im interested in S. Boullardii, so i shall get one which includes this strain. I took VSL-3 last year and Bio-K, but It didnt seem to help me at all.so im quite done paying big buck for probiotic supplements. if I get a new one it shall not be expensive.

Last edited by Lady Organic; 07-17-2015 at 09:17 AM.
07-17-2015, 06:03 PM   #9
InstantCoffee
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Glad to hear it's working out for you.

Being able to safely pas gas without being over a toilet has been one of those cherished things for me too.

I've been fasting the past two days.

Before work I prepare some POM juice with a bunch of probiotic tablets in it to dissolve and a tsp of prebiotic fiber.

When I come home before I eat anything i take some aloe juice and my amino acids then drink the probiotic juice. Idk if it's helping yet. A combination of that with my amino acid therapy definitely is doing ... something.
07-17-2015, 07:13 PM   #10
Lady Organic
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last year, I fasted for 7 days in a row, only water. It didnt really have an impact on my arthritis unfortunately. The 3 previous weeks, I was on complete Elemental diet on top of it. My CD was under control at that time, but I tried this regimen since elemental liquid diet has shown to be able to reduce symptoms of arthritis just like prednisone, in one comparative study. (that was in rheumatoid arthritis.) I have ongoing chronic arthritis even when my CD is in remission. I used to do intermittent fasting while I was on methotrexate and would fast the day prior to my (weekly) injection. I have lost that good habit and should return to it, a good 16 hours, at least, once a week.

Last edited by Lady Organic; 07-17-2015 at 10:38 PM.
07-17-2015, 09:05 PM   #11
RNGirl
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Lady Organic,

If your looking for a good Sacro B probiotic, try Thorne Resaearch Sacro B. Very good, did wonders for me.
07-17-2015, 10:36 PM   #12
Lady Organic
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thx! yeah thats what i have in mind to try :

Saccharomyces boulardii in Maintenance Treatment of Crohn’s Disease:

http://link.springer.com/article/10....A1005588911207
07-18-2015, 11:21 AM   #13
Tuff
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I use organic Miso in soups. Miso is made by adding a fermentation starter called koji, which contains the fungal microorganism Aspergillus oryzae. It's high in salt though, I only use a tablespoon. It is also rich in several of the B-complex vitamins and contains several minerals, including calcium, iron, zinc, copper and magnesium.
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