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Crohn's Disease Forum » General IBD Discussion » Crohns - Disease or Real-Time Evolution..?


 
12-19-2015, 03:41 PM   #1
NicholasPTimms
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Crohns - Disease or Real-Time Evolution..?

Greetings all..

I hope all is well and the festive light is radiating within ..?

I find myself to be wondrously intrigued to learn of your thoughts when we ask the question, is Crohns a disease, or perhaps the consequence of accelerated real-time evolution..?

Intriguingly, during research from Delaware University in 2014, more than 58 mutations from the NOD2 gene related to various disorders, 80% of these mutations where found to be directly connected to Crohns.

In the event we were dealing with a case of evolution over disease, what new found hope and opportunity would this potentially offer to those inflicted..?



Peace & Love Always


Nicholas
12-19-2015, 03:43 PM   #2
ronroush7
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A disease

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12-19-2015, 03:46 PM   #3
NicholasPTimms
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A disease
Would you care to expand or share reasoning upon your thoughts my good man...?

12-19-2015, 05:13 PM   #4
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Can you define how you are using evolution?

12-19-2015, 06:41 PM   #5
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I really dont follow evolution. I believe things exist in our world and are unknown for lengths of time. Once discovered they are found to be linked in some cases to other things. We are still discovering so much and with the unknown i believe people often hypothisies that its due to .... how many times has science said this .. is caused by that only to a few yrs later say we were wrong through great study we now see it is due to... this is only my opinion.
12-19-2015, 06:53 PM   #6
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I don't know.. It might be related to some other disease.
12-19-2015, 07:05 PM   #7
NicholasPTimms
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Can you define how you are using evolution?
The bio-mechanical processes of mutation within a species intelligently and synchronously adapting with its environment with intent of enhancement.
12-19-2015, 07:13 PM   #8
NicholasPTimms
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I really dont follow evolution. I believe things exist in our world and are unknown for lengths of time. Once discovered they are found to be linked in some cases to other things. We are still discovering so much and with the unknown i believe people often hypothisies that its due to .... how many times has science said this .. is caused by that only to a few yrs later say we were wrong through great study we now see it is due to... this is only my opinion.
Interesting words my good man

May I ask however, if one doesn't follow evolution, how do you monitor the behaviour or indeed progress of your condition..? In a scenario where it is considered for Crohns to be mutation of evolution, then this seeks to remove the nature of hypothesis from the realms of science you make reference to.
12-19-2015, 07:29 PM   #9
2010mustang
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I dont see it as evelution as in its mutating. I see it as how im sure most people do. Here how ill try to exlpain it. Mind you im honestly a simple redneck from kansas so science isnt something im really into. I have a disease. This disease causes .... symptoms lets take inflimation for the symptom. If i take medication and it works the inflimation lessens or goes away. Like chemo for cancer. If the meds fail or i do nothing then the inflimation spreads or gets worse. It then causes other problems like deteriation of the bowel etc. Its like if i break my leg and it gets infected. No meds or failed meds the disease spreads not mutates. If meds work it kills or possible cures a disease.
12-19-2015, 07:37 PM   #10
NicholasPTimms
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I dont see it as evelution as in its mutating. I see it as how im sure most people do. Here how ill try to exlpain it. Mind you im honestly a simple redneck from kansas so science isnt something im really into. I have a disease. This disease causes .... symptoms lets take inflimation for the symptom. If i take medication and it works the inflimation lessens or goes away. Like chemo for cancer. If the meds fail or i do nothing then the inflimation spreads or gets worse. It then causes other problems like deteriation of the bowel etc. Its like if i break my leg and it gets infected. No meds or failed meds the disease spreads not mutates. If meds work it kills or possible cures a disease.
Thank you for sharing friend..

Would you say you feel rather passive to your condition in that respect..? Do you not feel a need to better understand as to why or how you have this experience..?
12-19-2015, 07:46 PM   #11
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No one knows the true cause of Crohn's. It's probably a complex mixture of many factors including genetics, environment, diet, immunity, and other factors. And if Crohn's is partially due to some genetic mutations, that does not negate the fact that it is, in fact, a disease. I fail to understand the point you are trying to make, Nicholas.
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12-19-2015, 07:46 PM   #12
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That would take a lot of searching and I am still not sure you would find out.

12-19-2015, 07:52 PM   #13
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No sir i dont. Im a religious guy. I believe God has given me this trial for a reason. I may not understand it but it is to help me learn something. Before i had crohns i took lots of things for granted. Had multiple hot rods, motorcyle, boats. Worked hard to get them but often didnt pay enough attention where it was needed.Since this it has caused me to slow down and appreciate life. Sold my motorcycle and a hot rod as my health isnt good enough to use them. I have learned to appreciate my family much more. My wife is amazing and this disease has shown me how much more i love and appreciate her as well as other areas i took for granted. I would live to get better or if ever possible cured but if it doesnt happen then i must be ok with that to. There are more important things i have realised then just my wants and sometimes my needs. If i fail to get better i just pray that those around me can learn lessons from watching me go through this.
12-19-2015, 08:34 PM   #14
NicholasPTimms
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No sir i dont. Im a religious guy. I believe God has given me this trial for a reason. I may not understand it but it is to help me learn something. Before i had crohns i took lots of things for granted. Had multiple hot rods, motorcyle, boats. Worked hard to get them but often didnt pay enough attention where it was needed.Since this it has caused me to slow down and appreciate life. Sold my motorcycle and a hot rod as my health isnt good enough to use them. I have learned to appreciate my family much more. My wife is amazing and this disease has shown me how much more i love and appreciate her as well as other areas i took for granted. I would live to get better or if ever possible cured but if it doesnt happen then i must be ok with that to. There are more important things i have realised then just my wants and sometimes my needs. If i fail to get better i just pray that those around me can learn lessons from watching me go through this.
12-19-2015, 09:01 PM   #15
NicholasPTimms
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No one knows the true cause of Crohn's. It's probably a complex mixture of many factors including genetics, environment, diet, immunity, and other factors. And if Crohn's is partially due to some genetic mutations, that does not negate the fact that it is, in fact, a disease. I fail to understand the point you are trying to make, Nicholas.
I feel perhaps the word 'disease' is thrown around a little to easily these day.

Facts I consider to be information, fact only becomes a truth when it is accepted as so by the perception of the individual.

The highest, and perhaps most accurate, definition of disease is that of abnormal disorder that causes disorder in part of or all of an organism. The highest understanding of disease is that it has a specific and clearly identifiable cause contrary to the equilibrium in the natural order of the organism.

In an event when facts are unable to clearly or reasonably establish a cause-in-fact, then it can never truly be considered a disease however, in human terms the definition of disease has been coined to cover anything that causes pain or dysfunction. If we consider holistically when assessing the current state of health across the board and that of our environment, then there perhaps very little to consider abnormal about Crohns.

So perhaps, if we are dealing with a matter of evolution over disease, then this flips the experience back to front; where disease requires to be cured, evolution simply requires the organism to adapt and evolve with its environment. Intriguingly, the NOD2 gene (the gene mutation of crohns) is a rather intelligent being highly regarded for its ability as an intracellular pattern recognition receptor, which plays an important role by stimulating a reaction from the immune system through recognition of bacterial molecules.

The process of evolution with intent to enhance / improve upon itself is dependent upon the information derived by this pattern recognition data from this gene. When we further consider that from 58% of mutations of this gene linked to various disorders (such as cancers), 80% were connected directly to Crohns. 80% is a truly astronomical percentage in these terms, this is a majority which suggests it is possible that Crohns is the primary source of these various disorders. In that respect, it is plausible to seriously consider that Crohns has potential to be the singularity as they would say in physics, or in more medical terms; the original source in which all considered disease originates.

If this was to be the case, this holds the potential opportunity for mankind to evolutionary surpass disease..
12-19-2015, 09:09 PM   #16
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No sir i dont. Im a religious guy. I believe God has given me this trial for a reason. I may not understand it but it is to help me learn something. Before i had crohns i took lots of things for granted. Had multiple hot rods, motorcyle, boats. Worked hard to get them but often didnt pay enough attention where it was needed.Since this it has caused me to slow down and appreciate life. Sold my motorcycle and a hot rod as my health isnt good enough to use them. I have learned to appreciate my family much more. My wife is amazing and this disease has shown me how much more i love and appreciate her as well as other areas i took for granted. I would live to get better or if ever possible cured but if it doesnt happen then i must be ok with that to. There are more important things i have realised then just my wants and sometimes my needs. If i fail to get better i just pray that those around me can learn lessons from watching me go through this.
I agree

12-20-2015, 11:32 AM   #17
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I'm struggling to understand what you're trying to say here. Evolution is about species adapting, improving, becoming more suited to their environment. I really can't see how Crohns can be considered an improvement.

If we consider holistically when assessing the current state of health across the board and that of our environment, then there perhaps very little to consider abnormal about Crohns.
Diarrhea up to 40 times a day, bleeding intestines, crippling stomach aches... In my head, that is considered abnormal.

From my point of view, just because the mechanisms behind Crohns aren't fully understood, doesn't that make it any less of a disease.
12-20-2015, 11:58 AM   #18
NicholasPTimms
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I'm struggling to understand what you're trying to say here. Evolution is about species adapting, improving, becoming more suited to their environment. I really can't see how Crohns can be considered an improvement.



Diarrhea up to 40 times a day, bleeding intestines, crippling stomach aches... In my head, that is considered abnormal.

From my point of view, just because the mechanisms behind Crohns aren't fully understood, doesn't that make it any less of a disease.
Intense, excessive and heightened symptoms I would agree, however holistically far from abnormal when we assess this against the general health population. With such a high number of various disorders, with rates of disorder increasing prior and at birth.

Indeed, evolution is about adaption, improving and becoming more synchronised with its environment. In order for such a process to take place there has to be "transition period" of which the species is deconstructed and reconstructed. As a biological organism, such has to be achieved in real-time.

In respect of the evolution of human species, when the cycle of evolution comes to its turning point, we would reasonably experience a period within our experience/history, in which the 'transition phase" was live. Evolution of this nature would not simply happen over night, the process of final transition in metamorphosis of a 'new species' would require a substantial period of time meaning a prolonged experience of mechanical deconstruction on a biological level.

With what has previously been shared concerning the NOD2 gene; the very source of the mutation of Crohns comes from a gene who's primary purpose is to assess environmental data and instruct the immune system in how to respond in order to adapt with its environment. When researching the NOD2 gene with view to understand its signalling mechanisms and how its breaks down, a molecule called HSP70 was stumbled upon - which stands for Heat Shock Protein - which has a primary task in the assistance in the folding of proteins to their correct three-dimensional shapes. The folding of proteins in such a way is what drives metamorphis, the physical change in the organism.

So within the experience of Crohns, we have highly active NOD2 Gene absorbing environmental data above and beyond what is considered 'normal',. This gene can therefore perhaps be considered to be feeding the HSP70 gene a continuous stream of data in which HSP70 is using to continually recode DNA formation. Which would perhaps further help explain as to why C&C comes with such a large scale of subsequent problems, joints pains being a wondrous examples as this would start to make a little more sense if we consider the three dimensional shapes of proteins being deconstructed and reconstructed
12-20-2015, 02:55 PM   #19
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It's a dumb disease.
12-20-2015, 03:27 PM   #20
NicholasPTimms
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It's a dumb disease.
Greetings Axel

Would you perhaps be able to expand upon your comments..? Share with us your reasoning behind why you feel this to be the case..?
12-20-2015, 03:47 PM   #21
2010mustang
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Nicholas may i ask. Do you or someone you know have this disease or are you intriuged by it.
12-20-2015, 03:50 PM   #22
NicholasPTimms
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Nicholas may i ask. Do you or someone you know have this disease or are you intriuged by it.
The most accurate answer I guess would be, I had this 'disease'..

http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=75542
12-20-2015, 08:14 PM   #23
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I suspect that this thread is a mickey take by a new member.crohns is a disease like many others I seriously doubt if it's a good or any variant of evolution as it can and does make the host seriously ill which leads me back to its a dumb disease like many others which is very difficult to treat.
12-21-2015, 04:15 AM   #24
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I dont understand whats going on here. Point is scientist doesnt even know whats causing this disease as said above. This disease cant be cured yet it has been going on since 1930. And what means that you had the disease? Im sorry i dont see any point of this conversation. I go by facts
12-21-2015, 07:10 AM   #25
NicholasPTimms
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I suspect that this thread is a mickey take by a new member.crohns is a disease like many others I seriously doubt if it's a good or any variant of evolution as it can and does make the host seriously ill which leads me back to its a dumb disease like many others which is very difficult to treat.
How unfortunate you feel such way my friend. It would seem you have spoken without reading the prior posts that have been made in this thread.
12-21-2015, 07:16 AM   #26
NicholasPTimms
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I dont understand whats going on here. Point is scientist doesnt even know whats causing this disease as said above. This disease cant be cured yet it has been going on since 1930. And what means that you had the disease? Im sorry i dont see any point of this conversation. I go by facts
Its OK not to understand, and it's OK not to see the point. I have shared much information in only a few posts. Perhaps take your time to digest the information. Indeed scientists don't yet know what causes Crohns, which is much the point which is being raised.

What do I mean that I had the disease, a few posts up you will find a link to my story, this would perhaps offer you a little further insight.
12-21-2015, 07:59 AM   #27
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O my im just laughing while reading this lol.
12-21-2015, 08:05 AM   #28
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O my im just laughing while reading this lol.
Laughter is said to be a wondrous medicine.. would you care to share as to why you find yourself with such joy..?
12-21-2015, 08:08 AM   #29
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I guess its my happy pills
12-21-2015, 08:12 AM   #30
NicholasPTimms
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I guess its my happy pills
Maybe, or perhaps is the result of myosin dragging endorphins the size of a planet above its head..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xx4Xy_pgYM
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