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Crohn's Disease Forum » Books, Multimedia, Research & News » MAP also implicated in Lupus and Sjogren's


02-29-2016, 09:41 AM   #1
ppk
 
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MAP also implicated in Lupus and Sjogren's

I was somewhat surprised by this recent case report which found that an 11-year old girl with SLE and Sjogren's tested positive for MAP. Perhaps MAP is able to predispose one to extra-intestinal autoimmune diseases?

https://www.sciforschenonline.org/jo...IDOA-2-111.pdf
02-29-2016, 11:21 AM   #2
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It may be linked or may be not, unfortunately one case is irrelevant, and vast array of lupus patients must be tested for MAP to be certain. Luckily it may be done very soon with new MAP test developed by prof. John Hermon-Taylor of King's College London.
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02-29-2016, 02:11 PM   #3
ppk
 
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It may be linked or may be not, unfortunately one case is irrelevant, and vast array of lupus patients must be tested for MAP to be certain. Luckily it may be done very soon with new MAP test developed by prof. John Hermon-Taylor of King's College London.
Yeah, agreed - this is not at all conclusive, and should be taken for what it is: a one-off case report. However, it would be interesting to test other autoimmune patients for bacterial infections like MAP or AIEC.
03-06-2016, 04:14 AM   #4
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I was somewhat surprised by this recent case report which found that an 11-year old girl with SLE and Sjogren's tested positive for MAP. Perhaps MAP is able to predispose one to extra-intestinal autoimmune diseases?

https://www.sciforschenonline.org/jo...IDOA-2-111.pdf
There are a number of diseases that may be caused by MAP including (Blau syndrome, type 1 diabetes, Hashimoto thyroiditis, and multiple sclerosis), but more research is needed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25788897
03-09-2016, 10:49 AM   #5
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When I started reading up all I could about possible causes of Crohn's a few years ago, and was introduced to the MAP theory, I had come across this and other similar papers.

It's all really over my head, but it sort of makes sense that if you get a MAP infection, normal processes of macrophages break down, which manifests into a whole host of diseases we don't fully understand and just chock up to immune system dysregulation.
03-09-2016, 12:45 PM   #6
wildbill_52280
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There are a number of diseases that may be caused by MAP including (Blau syndrome, type 1 diabetes, Hashimoto thyroiditis, and multiple sclerosis), but more research is needed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25788897
These would be diseases associated with MAP. As far as i know it's merely theoretical that map plays a causative role although there may be some weak evidence that suggests this considering therapies that attempt to eliminate map have been shown to improve a disease state. New studies show complex relationships between pathogens and diseases states where the body is in a state which allows these bacteria to thrive, so its not necessarily that the bacteria we come into contact with create these disease states, these states exist beforehand. To eliminate these pathogens is merely a treatment not a cure and nor is it necessarily the sole cause of why these bacteria seem to persist and cause problems. two possible mechanisms are: underlying inflammation and its byproducts which provide a source of nutrients for pathogens, and secondly, reduced diversity in healthy microbiome which creates a new "space" for pathogens to grow.
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03-09-2016, 05:16 PM   #7
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These would be diseases associated with MAP. As far as i know it's merely theoretical that map plays a causative role although there may be some weak evidence that suggests this considering therapies that attempt to eliminate map have been shown to improve a disease state. New studies show complex relationships between pathogens and diseases states where the body is in a state which allows these bacteria to thrive, so its not necessarily that the bacteria we come into contact with create these disease states, these states exist beforehand. To eliminate these pathogens is merely a treatment not a cure and nor is it necessarily the sole cause of why these bacteria seem to persist and cause problems. two possible mechanisms are: underlying inflammation and its byproducts which provide a source of nutrients for pathogens, and secondly, reduced diversity in healthy microbiome which creates a new "space" for pathogens to grow.
By your definition, there are no pathogens and nothing specific causes disease, which obviously does not fit with reality. Do the new studies you refer to provide weaker or stronger evidence than ones that attempt to treat a specific pathogen such as MAP, eliminate it and show improvements in health? MAP has been postulated as a cause, not just associated with, these diseases and more research is needed. If anyone doubts MAP could cause a variety of different diseases, then consider the numerous way Mycobacterium Tuberculosis can destroy your body and remember where we were before the BCG vaccine and effective antibiotic treatment.

I would say, from studying the MetaHit project, that microbiome research is expensive, vast, vague, produces no useful theories or predictions to test and thus far has yielded no useful treatments. The study of known pathogens on the other hand...
08-27-2016, 07:38 AM   #8
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There are a number of diseases that may be caused by MAP including (Blau syndrome, type 1 diabetes, Hashimoto thyroiditis, and multiple sclerosis), but more research is needed:
Was doing some research on MS for a friend and I discovered this interesting link, which posits chlamydia and a number of other pathogens (to MS) as possibilities. davidwheldon.co.uk/ms-treatment1.html

On MAP, I have just tested positive for it. I am waiting on seeing if my GI will prescribe the anti-map abx. I strongly believe it is no coincidence I have crohns that is resistant to treatment and MAP ... MAP doesn't just take advantage of inflammation, it creates inflammation where there was none in cows. And according to Borody" "Its causality has been proven by the standard Koch’s postulates which have been fulfilled by culturing the pathogen from patients with Crohn’s Disease, causing the disease to be reproduced in experimental animals, and then culturing back the bacterium from the experimental animals. Hence, a subset of patients with Crohn’s Disease – estimated to be around 50% - are suffering from this chronic inflammation caused by infection with MAP which is found in milk, water and foods generally. "

Given it is so widespread it may well be in patients with other diseases too, but whether or not it causes the specific neurological etc symptoms of something like MS, I'm not sure. I think from what I've read you need both a certain genetic susceptibility and a MAP infection otherwise it doesn't cause the disease, though I don't know if that is just hypothesis or not.
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