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Crohn's Disease Forum » General IBD Discussion » Crohn's after antibiotics, anyone else?


 
07-28-2013, 11:31 AM   #61
JohnnyRottenAppleseed
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Bayer and FDA knowingly sent HIV tainted meds to Latin American after they were pulled from US. Don't trust the FDA, "doctors", or Big Pharma: http://www.getholistichealth.com/353...s-of-children/

Also, for "doctors" to brush over medication side effects is ignorant at best as FDA approved meds kill 100,000 Americans yearly.
07-28-2013, 11:47 AM   #62
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The FDA has its flaws but thank God for government agencies that ensure our drugs are safe, monitored and effective. Of course drugs are approved that still damage people but they only approve those that are mostly found to be safe. No drug would ever get approval because someone has had a reaction or death to every drug on the planet.

These conspiracies and scare tactics aren't helpful. We need to make sure our governments operate at the highest level but nobody is out to get us.

I'm no defender of big pharma but I do believe the government has our best interest in heart. We just need to keep them in check and work for us the people.
07-28-2013, 12:14 PM   #63
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Ihurt: this is the problem with going by personal experiences though. I get the flu shot, and I have never had a problem from it (and have never got flu either). If you really have got medical problems that resulted from the flu shot, then I'm guessing that knowing that I got no side effects from it whatsoever doesn't mean much to you. You can't assess the potential dangers of a medication just by what someone tells you - or, doctors can't anyway.

I'm not sure what the system is in the US, but isn't there a way you can report adverse drug reactions? If you really believe you're getting sick from vaccines and medications in ways that there were no warnings for, can't you report them?

And if you don't feel your doctors tell you all the possible adverse reactions, find new doctors! (Though I know that's easier said than done sometimes.) There are doctors who are thorough in their warnings. And I know most people probably don't, but I actually do read every potential side effect on the info. leaflets.

The best doctors should tailor the information they provide to the patient. Not only should they be aware that certain characteristics can make side effects more likely (e.g. a patient's sex, age, other medical conditions), but they should also take into account whether a patient has accurately understood any warnings that are given. For example, my surgeon knows me so well by now, he knows I don't get overly nervous about side effects and he knows I can read and understand information leaflets. So it's understandable that he doesn't always take the time to spell out side effects as he might with some other patients (or as he did with me when he first started treating me). If you can find a really good doctor, tell him how sensitive you are to drugs and how it worries you - it might make him spend a little extra time on making sure you're clear on all the risks.
07-28-2013, 12:34 PM   #64
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Notgutsnoglory: I mean yes, having the FDA is a good idea, but they are so flawed. Do you ever notice how many lawsuits there are towards drug companies due to severe adverse reactions and even death due to drug side effects? I do understand also that Not everyone will have these side effects, some will do fine with the meds or some will have some sort of reaction, it may be mild, It may be serious, and it may be deadly. I also understand that they cannot rip a drug off the market just because a couple people had a bad side effect. But with a lot of these meds, these side effects are Not so rare. I mean I was just talking to my regular doctor about medications. My gastro doc gave me this Tricyclic med( Elavil) to take for my pain. After being on it for a week my heart started acting crazy. Well I told him and he said he did not think it was the med doing this. I went to my regular doctor and she told me to get off it right away saying that ALL the tricyclic meds have the potential to mess up the heart!!! I mean thankfully I do have a primary care doc who is Very honest and upfront with me. She is the one who told me to Never get another flu shot again. But my point being is that yes it is important to have an FDA that monitors stuff, but out FDA here is very corrupt and not very trustworthy. I mean look at all the GMO's that allowed into our foods we eat..... That is another story though.

UNXMAS: It is possible to report when you have a reaction to a drug here, but nothing will come of it. I have reported it when I had a very bad reaction. It is not an easy process either. They have you call a number then they send you out stuff in the mail to fill out ( this process can take weeks to months) and then when you get the stuff you have to fill it out and send it in. That is it, I mean nothing is ever done about it though. It is almost a waste of time.
07-28-2013, 01:21 PM   #65
JohnnyRottenAppleseed
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They love people like you. Don't forget your flu $hot!

Anyways, I just got the Tetanus/Pertusis shot, got suckered into it, I've been on the shutter since I hope it's just what I've been eating.

The FDA has its flaws but thank God for government agencies that ensure our drugs are safe, monitored and effective. Of course drugs are approved that still damage people but they only approve those that are mostly found to be safe. No drug would ever get approval because someone has had a reaction or death to every drug on the planet.

These conspiracies and scare tactics aren't helpful. We need to make sure our governments operate at the highest level but nobody is out to get us.

I'm no defender of big pharma but I do believe the government has our best interest in heart. We just need to keep them in check and work for us the people.
07-28-2013, 01:41 PM   #66
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You know how many people have been saved thanks to flu shots? Especially those of who are immune compromised. Nobody is forcing you to get a flu shot.

Take a look at other countries around the world and see how well they are fairing. People drop dead from minor sicknesses and there is no agency to help or gain control of the situation.
07-28-2013, 02:28 PM   #67
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Notgutsnoglory: I mean I was just talking to my regular doctor about medications. My gastro doc gave me this Tricyclic med( Elavil) to take for my pain. After being on it for a week my heart started acting crazy. Well I told him and he said he did not think it was the med doing this. I went to my regular doctor and she told me to get off it right away saying that ALL the tricyclic meds have the potential to mess up the heart!!!
Elavil (amitriptyline) pretty much saved my life. It allows me to sleep properly and stops me feeling anywhere near so anxious and depressed as I used to. It does have a lot of side effects, and you're right that it can cause heart problems and your doctor should not have denied that. But I'm very glad that even though it causes problems for some people it hasn't been withdrawn. It hasn't literally saved my life in physical terms, but I can no longer imagine how I ever coped emotionally without it. Did you have a known heart condition before you took it? If you did, your doctor shouldn't have prescribed it for you without discussing the risks with you. Were you taking a very low dose? If you were, that might possibly be why your doctor didn't think the med was responsible, as it usually only causes side effects at the higher levels that it's prescribed at as an antidepressant and not so much at the lower levels that it's prescribed at for pain relief or insomnia.
07-28-2013, 02:32 PM   #68
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As for flu shots: I get them on the NHS and there's often media stories about how there's a shortage. My doctor doesn't get any extra money for getting me to have one. My GP gives them to me because I have multiple health problems that mean that if I did get flu, I'd be more likely to have serious complications than the average person. There's no conspiracy behind it.
07-28-2013, 03:47 PM   #69
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Hi There

I found your post very interesting.I was on a variety of highdose antiobiotics in January this year for 7 weeks following breast sepsis after a core needle biopsy. Two weeks after stopping my pills I started to get tummy pains that caused me to go to hospital. First the drs thought it was my appendix but then my blood were fine and another GI specialist said I had IBS. I didn't accept that because the only symptoms I had of IBS over the years was proctalgia.

As my pains persisted along with explosive bowels I refused to accept that diagnosis and went back to my GP. Had a lot of bloodtests all negative with the exception of Folate deficiency. Faecal Calprotectin was raised so I underwent a Colonoscopy that revealed inflammation at the terminal Ileum.

Also a cystic lesion was noted on my pancreas via an MRI scan in addition to a Gallstone. Im having an Mre in a couple of weeks and the GI specialist thinks I have crohns. I have not been in contact with anyone who has had TB and have not been using NSAIDS.

I pointed out my antiobiotic usage to my specialist and my thoughts that it was linked to my current medical condition but he wasn't concerned to be honest.
07-28-2013, 03:50 PM   #70
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Tracey I also find doctors shrug or get very dismissive about the cause of things. They don't seem to want to discuss the root but merely want to treat the symptoms. I think it's a rare doctor who spends time to get the backstory and try to put the puzzle pieces together.
07-28-2013, 04:09 PM   #71
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In my experiance i had GI issues after taking amoxicillin clavulanic acid. but i may have slowly been damaging my gut bacteria over the years with other course of antibiotics for acne. I have been on about 3 courses of doxycycline 2 months at a time for each course, totaling 6 months during the years 2000-2006, then a course of amoxicillin clavulanic acid for bronchitis in 2008 which was the turning point in my health.

So i wondered if i could find any scientific support for the theory they were involved in me getting crohn's, besides my own observations of course, and here is what i have found.

in a few studies of the bacterial composition in ibd they have found less diversity in the group clostridia cluster xiva bacteria, which are necessary residents, which are present in healthy controls, suggesting some relationship to disease state. i believe now this is largely causative.

Here the only study i could find on antibiotic associated diarhea with amoxicillin clavulanic acid in a human being and shows its ability to severely suppress the group clostridia cluster xiva.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC356823/

Here is a report of onset of crohns after eradication of h pylori with amoxicillin. yet in the abstract they hypothesize the cause of this case of crohns to have been related to h pylori and not the amoxicillin. I propose, it was the amoxicillin, due to my own experiance, and how this antibiotic specifically affects bacteria that is disturbed in IBD.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11208510


Here are two recent and large studies both finding a connection to antibiotics and IBD. The risk of IBD, reliably gets higher the more courses that have been taken.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ent/130/4/e794
http://faculty.vet.upenn.edu/gastro/...jg2011304a.pdf
07-28-2013, 07:17 PM   #72
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To the Drs and anyone who think Crohn's isn't caused by bacteria, why then are fecal transplants do effective???
07-28-2013, 08:20 PM   #73
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JohnnyO you are giving false information. Fecal transplants are effective against C-diff. There is no proof that they are effective for crohn's but it will continue to be studied.

If it was simply a bacterial problem, than antibiotics would be sufficient to cure crohn's. There are many variables.
07-28-2013, 08:25 PM   #74
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I think you've kind of missed my point. Anecdotal evidence (what you or your friends/family experienced) is not the same as evidence from research. Doctors will (and have to) go by research - not by what a patient believes has happened to them. This is because, no matter how clear the correlation between a med and a side effect may seem to you, you could have it wrong as there are too many variables and you and the people you know are not a big enough (or representative enough) of a group to determine whether there's a relationship between medication and side effect.

For example: you have a lot of complicated and undiagnosed symptoms. If you take a new med, or get a flu shot, and then get new symptoms, how can you be certain whether the new symptoms are a result of the med or flu shot, when you get new unexplained symptoms often anyway? Or, if you know, say, three people who get a symptom after a flu shot, that may seem convincing to you, but if a research study was carried out on thousands of people, and only three got symptoms after a flu shot, it might start to look more like the symptoms were a coincidence as so many people did not get any.

So however convinced you are about side effects, and however many people you know who got side effects, the doctor can not base his warnings on your personal experiences. And he certainly can't warn you in advance. Even if you do get a side effect from a flu shot, if no one else has had it before, if it's not been proven, how could he have told you in advance?
Well, sadly this has often not turned out to be the case. Hopfully our medical systems can be improved in the future. There has been a number of writings of late in the British Medical Journal on this problem of lack of evidence based medicine being used by medical professionals. For example:

"British Medical Journal investigation finds that treatment guidelines issues to doctors can be lacking in evidence and riddled with conflicts of interest"

http://www.drbriffa.com/2013/06/26/b...s-of-interest/

snippet:

...The fact is, many clinical guidelines are far from reliable and may not reflect the scientific facts at all. And, it seems, many doctors know this. For example, in one poll, only 49 per cent of doctors believed that the science supported the use of alteplase. Yet, alarmingly, 83 per cent said they would give this drug.

What this disparity probably reflects is the fact that doctors can often be fearful about not acting in according with the guidance they are issued, even if they believe it to be wrong. The author of the article puts it this way: “Doctors who are sceptical about the scientific basis of clinical guidelines have two choices: they can follow guidelines even though they suspect doing so will cause harm, or they can ignore them and do what they believe is right for their patients, thereby risking professional censure and possibly jeopardising their careers.”

The article ends with a quote from one doctor who stated: “We like to stick within the standard of care, because when the shit hits the fan we all want to be able to say we were just doing what everyone else is doing—even if what everyone else is doing isn’t very good.”

What sort of a system of medicine do we have that means that doctors are happy to recommend and administer treatments are not supported by the evidence, they themselves don’t believe in, are not beneficial, and perhaps do more harm than good, for fear of being out-of-step with their colleagues and profession?...
&

"BMJ review questions the ‘evidence’ on which flu vaccine policy is based"

http://www.drbriffa.com/2009/02/13/b...licy-is-based/

&

"How do researchers end up recommending a drug they concede has no benefit?"

http://www.drbriffa.com/2013/03/28/h...as-no-benefit/

snippet:

Although medical practice has a sheen of being ‘evidence-based’, you don’t have to look to far to find a lot of what we do as doctors to be either untested or proven ineffective. I wrote about this recently here where I highlight an initiative by the British Medical Journal entitled ‘Too Much Medicine’ which seeks to draw attention to the issue. A very good idea, I think.

I believe one prime candidate for ‘Too Much Medicine’ is the cholesterol-reducing drug ezetimibe. It blocks cholesterol absorption from the gut and does a generally good job of dropping blood cholesterol levels, but as I am pains to point out, none of this matters a jot. The question we need to ask is: “What effect does taking ezetimibe have on health?”...
07-28-2013, 09:19 PM   #75
JohnnyRottenAppleseed
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Not really, but maybe you are. "They" don't know what causes Crohn's/Colitis. I don't claim to. I am trying to find a cure and have induced remission in myself repeatedly using Cipro/Flagyl. From shitting myself to death to crapping solid logs on schedule. I have no agenda besides helping myself or others. Here is a link with a person who cured their friend by donating their good fecal sample. Just because the government hasn't endorsed the therapy, doesn't mean it works or doesn't:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...my-stool/?_r=0

P.S. I have also induced Colitis/Crohn's symptoms by taking Z pack. But "it has nothing to do with bacteria." OK. Whatever you say! LOL!

JohnnyO you are giving false information. Fecal transplants are effective against C-diff. There is no proof that they are effective for crohn's but it will continue to be studied.

If it was simply a bacterial problem, than antibiotics would be sufficient to cure crohn's. There are many variables.
07-28-2013, 09:25 PM   #76
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JohnnyO you are giving false information. Fecal transplants are effective against C-diff. There is no proof that they are effective for crohn's but it will continue to be studied.
if this is what you currently believe, then you haven't read this entire thread yet http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=52400. Please read section 3.
07-28-2013, 09:35 PM   #77
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It's a promising therapy but its currently in trials. It's important that we don't make definitive statements about a therapy that's still being studied. It may turn out to be the most amazing therapy ever but so far there have been mixed results when it comes to Inflammatory Bowel Disease.

Anyways this thread is about antibiotics so let's please try to stay on topic. I'm partially to blame for that but definitely agree that antibiotics can cause a flare. I'm not sure if the crohn's antibiotics like cipro and Flagyl would cause a flare though since they are used to treat the disease.
07-28-2013, 10:13 PM   #78
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Cipro/Flagyl puts me in remission. Zpack puts me in a flare.
07-29-2013, 04:30 AM   #79
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Beach: you're right that research into medications and their side effects can have problems and bias, and I'm sure there are cases when standards slip. But I would still think a doctor will get more reliable information if he goes by whatever research is available rather than going by what patients tell him they've experienced when taking a particular drug. And I think patients will usually get a clearer idea of the risks of side effects by going the official information than by what a few of their friends or relatives tell them.
07-29-2013, 09:48 AM   #80
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I kind of think antibiotics can play a role in IBD. I have been on low dose antibiotics for years now to prevent UTI's ( Keflex low dose for 4 years, and now augmentin low dose for the last 8 months), they are the only thing that stops the horrid infections I get. BUT, I will say I am positive that they have messed my gut up! And by the way, I also take HUGE amounts of probiotics, actually I have been taking probiotics way before I even took antibiotics just because they are beneficial to the gut. I am 100% certain the probiotics have helped me in terms of preventing GI effects from the antibiotics, but I still think the antibiotic has messed me up. That and I noticed my intestines got real bad really after I came down with a stomach flu 2 years ago. But then I have known people who have had to be on Big time antibiotics for years for treating chronic lyme disease and they did not get crohns or IBD so I am not sure what to think there. There must be something else to it. Maybe you have to already be prone to getting IBD in the first place I am not sure.

I have not been dx with crohns, my gastro keeps thinking IBS since my tests have not really shown anything. I know many people with IBS and they are NO where is sick as I am, sorry, the shoe for IBS just does not fit me or my symptoms. I do not know what I have really, but I don't think it is just IBS.

Honestly, it is good to read all the medical research and studies, but I take them with a grain of salt( you don't even know how true these studies are anyhow). And usually the studies are done with a small number of subjects. I remember talking to my pharmacist about the reaction to the Elavil I had with it effecting my heart rhythm. I told her my GI said this was rare and usually did not happen in people who took this med, especially at low doses. She said actually it is not as rare as you think. She said when they hand you the leaflet stating possible drug side effects, it does not list all of them. She said it just lists the more common ones and heart disturbances was actually listed on the leaflet so it IS a common side effect I am guessing. Now when I am faced with taking a new drug if I have any questions, I will talk to my pharmacist, they seem to be the ones who really know drugs, not the doctors. I really think doctors should have to be educated in pharmaceuticals since they hand out prescriptions for them. They really need to know about the potential adverse reactions and how they can effect some people.

I am glad that there are meds out there that help people and treat certain diseases. I mean they help a lot of people out there. But there are side effects and consequences when you take any drug unfortunately. It sucks, but it is what it is. I mean steroids totally help people, but there is always consequences from taking them that can be pretty bad( sometimes worse than the disease you are trying to treat)! Just like with antibiotics. They are the blessing and the curse. They have saved lives, but they have also done tons of damage. I think it will be a good day when these researchers start trying to invest in finding out a "cause" for these diseases rather than trying to find a band aid to cover them up. Because in the end, without a cause, there can never be a cure.....( but then again, they want it that way).
07-29-2013, 12:02 PM   #81
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I kind of think antibiotics can play a role in IBD. I have been on low dose antibiotics for years now to prevent UTI's ( Keflex low dose for 4 years, and now augmentin low dose for the last 8 months), they are the only thing that stops the horrid infections I get. BUT, I will say I am positive that they have messed my gut up! And by the way, I also take HUGE amounts of probiotics, actually I have been taking probiotics way before I even took antibiotics just because they are beneficial to the gut. I am 100% certain the probiotics have helped me in terms of preventing GI effects from the antibiotics, but I still think the antibiotic has messed me up. That and I noticed my intestines got real bad really after I came down with a stomach flu 2 years ago. But then I have known people who have had to be on Big time antibiotics for years for treating chronic lyme disease and they did not get crohns or IBD so I am not sure what to think there. There must be something else to it. Maybe you have to already be prone to getting IBD in the first place I am not sure.

I have not been dx with crohns, my gastro keeps thinking IBS since my tests have not really shown anything. I know many people with IBS and they are NO where is sick as I am, sorry, the shoe for IBS just does not fit me or my symptoms. I do not know what I have really, but I don't think it is just IBS.

Honestly, it is good to read all the medical research and studies, but I take them with a grain of salt( you don't even know how true these studies are anyhow). And usually the studies are done with a small number of subjects. I remember talking to my pharmacist about the reaction to the Elavil I had with it effecting my heart rhythm. I told her my GI said this was rare and usually did not happen in people who took this med, especially at low doses. She said actually it is not as rare as you think. She said when they hand you the leaflet stating possible drug side effects, it does not list all of them. She said it just lists the more common ones and heart disturbances was actually listed on the leaflet so it IS a common side effect I am guessing. Now when I am faced with taking a new drug if I have any questions, I will talk to my pharmacist, they seem to be the ones who really know drugs, not the doctors. I really think doctors should have to be educated in pharmaceuticals since they hand out prescriptions for them. They really need to know about the potential adverse reactions and how they can effect some people.

I am glad that there are meds out there that help people and treat certain diseases. I mean they help a lot of people out there. But there are side effects and consequences when you take any drug unfortunately. It sucks, but it is what it is. I mean steroids totally help people, but there is always consequences from taking them that can be pretty bad( sometimes worse than the disease you are trying to treat)! Just like with antibiotics. They are the blessing and the curse. They have saved lives, but they have also done tons of damage. I think it will be a good day when these researchers start trying to invest in finding out a "cause" for these diseases rather than trying to find a band aid to cover them up. Because in the end, without a cause, there can never be a cure.....( but then again, they want it that way).
do you know which antibiotics these people have taken who not develop crohns? they have identified certain antibiotics to be involved, so it does not apply to all antibiotics in general. IBD is not the only disease linked to antibiotic use, allergies are too. i too both doxycycline and amoxicillin, i believe both have been specifically linked to crohns.


The other factors are the diet you are currently on and fiber intake, which feeds good bacteria so it is less affected by antibiotics.
07-29-2013, 12:49 PM   #82
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Funny thing. Besides the antibiotic discussion, I've always wondered if my trip to Mexico started the downhill spiral to all the Crohns spiral. Really bad D after the trip. Steriotype huh?

Makes you wonder about the correlation between the normal bowel flora and antibiotics or what the antibiotic actually does in the bowel.

Interesting......
07-29-2013, 02:04 PM   #83
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Well a good friend of mine went to Kansas city for lyme treatment and I know she was on 6 months of IV antibiotics. I know one was amoxicillin and the other was doxycycline. She also was on a year straight of heavy dose oral antibiotics after the IV's. I am not sure which ones she was taking orally for that year though, but they were broad spectrum I believe.

As far as my diet goes, I have been on so many different ones, but for the last 6 months basically this is a sample of my diet,

Breakfast: Gluten Free pancakes ( like 4 small ones) and 1 banana

Snack: Organic yogurt with a teaspoon of organic granola

Luch: 2 very thin slices of organic turkey breast, a couple slices of organic avocado and half of an apple peeled ( organic)

Snack: Sometimes a small amount of organic greek yogurt or a hand full of sweet potato chips

Dinner: Usually baked chicken or turkey breast, organic boiled squash, and a vegetable( organic) very well cooked until very soft ( usually green beans, carrots or peas).

That is about it. I have found that I can be feeling pretty good for an amount of time and then all of sudden I am in a severe flare or some sort again but am still eating exactly the same thing so I do not think my issue is tied directly to my diet.

I have tried other diets as well, like I have basically given up grains for the most part thinking that could be an issue, but since I am still having issues, that may not be the case. I also am just now researching about a syndrome called Ischemic Syndromes. These can cause the same symptoms are IBD and IBS but are supposedly harder to diagnose.






do you know which antibiotics these people have taken who not develop crohns? they have identified certain antibiotics to be involved, so it does not apply to all antibiotics in general. IBD is not the only disease linked to antibiotic use, allergies are too. i too both doxycycline and amoxicillin, i believe both have been specifically linked to crohns.


The other factors are the diet you are currently on and fiber intake, which feeds good bacteria so it is less affected by antibiotics.
07-31-2013, 05:39 AM   #84
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Ihurt: since with all the tests you've had it's unlikely you have IBD, have you asked your doctors about which gastro. diseases could result from a flu shot or from antibiotics, if you feel those triggered your symptoms?

Also, how sure are you that your diet and probiotics are helping? Your diet seems very limited and lacking in calories, which is going to be bad for your health and will make it harder for your body to fight off illnesses. I used to be very strict with what I ate and what medications I took, but I finally realised that my health was a lost cause - I was going to be sick anyway, and all the rules I had set for myself and all the care I was taking to make sure I was as healthy as possible were not helping at all. Have you tried eating other foods or stopping taking probiotics and seeing if they even make your symptoms worse at all? I tried taking probiotics and they made no difference.
08-01-2013, 09:08 PM   #85
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I am convinced that my Crohn's started because of antibiotics. I am sure of that, and nothing will convince me otherwise. Not only this, but both times I was hospitalized for severe flareups, they were caused because of antibiotics.

During my first hospitalization, there was this guy who also had Crohns, and we talked. When I brought my cases and antibiotics, he remembered his GI first time he was diagnosed asking him if the symptoms started after antibiotics.

Last edited by Tired; 08-01-2013 at 09:28 PM.
08-02-2013, 08:18 AM   #86
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Do you remember what antibiotics brought your crohn's on? I mean it is possible that the antibiotics caused it. Was it is the first time you ever took that antibiotic in your life? I mean that is what I hate about doctors who prescribe antibiotics, they NEVER tell their patients to take probiotics while taking them and they should! I have had soo many doctors say to me that antibiotics do not cause crohns. I always ask them what causes it then and that is when they clam up and have nothing to say! They have no clue what causes it so I don't see how they can say whether one thing does or does not cause crohns.







I am convinced that my Crohn's started because of antibiotics. I am sure of that, and nothing will convince me otherwise. Not only this, but both times I was hospitalized for severe flareups, they were caused because of antibiotics.

During my first hospitalization, there was this guy who also had Crohns, and we talked. When I brought my cases and antibiotics, he remembered his GI first time he was diagnosed asking him if the symptoms started after antibiotics.
08-02-2013, 09:38 PM   #87
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The antibiotic was tetracycline, and it was not the first time I took it. I think that my immune system was modulated at that time and the antibiotic did something. Flagyl also send me to hospital twice for a severe flare and probiotics didn't do a thing.

Do you remember what antibiotics brought your crohn's on? I mean it is possible that the antibiotics caused it. Was it is the first time you ever took that antibiotic in your life? I mean that is what I hate about doctors who prescribe antibiotics, they NEVER tell their patients to take probiotics while taking them and they should! I have had soo many doctors say to me that antibiotics do not cause crohns. I always ask them what causes it then and that is when they clam up and have nothing to say! They have no clue what causes it so I don't see how they can say whether one thing does or does not cause crohns.
08-03-2013, 04:48 AM   #88
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Do you remember what antibiotics brought your crohn's on? I mean it is possible that the antibiotics caused it. Was it is the first time you ever took that antibiotic in your life? I mean that is what I hate about doctors who prescribe antibiotics, they NEVER tell their patients to take probiotics while taking them and they should! I have had soo many doctors say to me that antibiotics do not cause crohns. I always ask them what causes it then and that is when they clam up and have nothing to say! They have no clue what causes it so I don't see how they can say whether one thing does or does not cause crohns.
There isn't any definite proof of what causes Crohn's. What would you expect a doctor to say? Why should they say that antibiotics cause Crohn's when there's no conclusive evidence that they do? There are several possible causes of Crohn's, and an apparent genetic component, but since the cause(s) isn't known, any honest doctor should be saying that they don't know the cause.

They have to weigh up benefits and risks. If antibiotics can stop possibly dangerous, sometimes even life-threatening, infections, would you expect a doctor to not offer them to a patient on the basis that there may possibly be a risk of developing Crohn's, even though many many people take antibiotics and never get Crohn's, and even though there is no proof that antibiotics have ever caused Crohn's at all? With any medication that has risks, side effects, or unknown possible risks, a doctor has to weigh up the positives and negatives. Sometimes they'll get this wrong, sometimes a patient will get unexpected negative results. But with the evidence currently available, I don't see how a doctor could weigh up the benefits of antibiotics and the possible risk that they might cause Crohn's and be correct in concluding that it's better not to give patients antibiotics.

Last edited by UnXmas; 08-03-2013 at 05:03 AM.
08-03-2013, 08:25 AM   #89
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Unxmas: I agree, you are right, I do not think doctors should stop prescribing antibiotics, they save lots of lives after all. I mean they are the only thing that calms my bladder issues. I just think doctors should recommend their patients take probiotics while handing out scripts for antibiotics. Hardly any doctor will do this. I have had only a couple doctors mention probiotics to me when they gave me antibiotics. I mean it could save a person a lot of misery! I am not saying that they will work for everyone or everything either, I mean but it is worth trying in my opinion. I know I have been taking probiotics for a long time and I know I would be WAY worse without them.

And yes, you are right, doctors usually do say they have no clue what causes crohns, which is why they really cannot say antibiotics do not cause it. I went through the same thing with my IC bladder. I had a few urologists try an argue that IC was not caused by a bacteria 100%. I can say my IC is caused by a bacteria because I respond positively when taking antibiotics, it helps my bladder A lot. This goes for a lot of other women out there who have IC. I mean don't get me wrong, I understand that a doctor should admit when he or she does not know something, that is the right thing to do. Unfortunately a lot of doctors will not do this, they will blame your illness on anything rather than admit they just don't know. This happens a lot, it is terrible. I cannot tell you how many times I was faced with a doctor telling me my illness was in my head or caused by stress!! Hmm, funny, I was perfectly Happy, and healthy before I got sick so, not so. So when I saw the Urologist who said No IC is not caused by bacteria, well he is wrong to say this. They have NO clue what causes IC so to say this he would have to have an answer to what does cause it then in my opinion. You cannot say something does or does not cause a disease until you know for certainty what the cause of the disease actually is.
08-03-2013, 10:09 AM   #90
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Ok, I think I misunderstood you - you mean that since they haven't yet ruled out antibiotics as a cause of Crohn's, doctors should warn you that it's a possible risk when they prescribe them, rather than saying (because there's no conclusive evidence of a antibiotic/Crohn's link) that antibiotics don't cause Crohn's?

I've had doctors tell me wrong things about causes too - stress seems to come up as a cause an awful lot! I think the difference is when we (patients) can be absolutely certain that something is or isn't the cause. E.g. we know when our illness doesn't correlate with stress, so for a doctor to tell us otherwise is unacceptable. But I know that sometimes I've been convinced something is triggering symptoms (not necessarily the cause, but making them worse) then later I've found I've been completely wrong.

But the problem with the antibiotic/Crohn's relationship is that could equably be true for possibly thousands of other conditions - any condition where the causes aren't certain. A doctor can't really prescribe antibiotics along with a warning that they could potentially cause thousands of illnesses. But if specifically asked if antibiotics cause Crohn's, they should answer that they don't know rather than saying "no"?

One of the best doctors I ever saw was a neurologist who told me he had no idea what was wrong with and that he was sending me to a worldwide specialist in London. He had no problems admitting he didn't know!
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