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Crohn's Disease Forum » Books, Multimedia, Research & News » Case Western: High Fat Diet Reduces Gut Bacteria, Crohn’s Disease Symptoms


07-08-2017, 08:24 AM   #1
mtseeg
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
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Case Western: High Fat Diet Reduces Gut Bacteria, Crohn’s Disease Symptoms

Researchers at Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine have shown a high fat diet may lead to specific changes in gut bacteria that could fight harmful inflammation—a major discovery for patients suffering from Crohn’s disease. Crohn’s disease, a type of inflammatory bowel syndrome, causes debilitating intestinal swelling, cramping, and diarrhea. The disease affects half a million people in the United States, but its cause is yet unclear.

In the new study, a diet of plant-derived “good” fats, including coconut oil or cocoa butter, drastically reduced bacterial diversity in mice with Crohn’s-like disease. Mice fed beneficial fatty diets had up to thirty percent fewer kinds of gut bacteria as those fed a normal diet, collectively resulting in a very different gut microbial composition. Some of the species changes showed up in feces, while others were different in cecum, a portion of the intestine commonly inflamed in Crohn’s disease. Mice fed even low concentrations of coconut oil or cocoa butter also had less severe small intestine inflammation.
Source:
http://casemed.case.edu/cwrumed360/n...fm?news_id=666
08-07-2017, 07:44 AM   #2
artheta
 
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I thought bacterial diversity was reduced in Crohn's disease? This research makes it sound like bacterial diversity is too high, and needs to be reduced.
08-07-2017, 08:19 AM   #3
mtseeg
 
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What I gleaned from the article was that biodiversity of good bacteria was reduced, but there was a proliferation of bad bacteria. And that the cocoa butter/coconut oil helped even the playing field.
08-07-2017, 05:44 PM   #4
OleJ
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I think this TED-talk: How the food you eat affects your gut - Shilpa Ravella is worth a watch. It explaines that a diet of mainly vegetables, fruit, nuts, seeds, whole grain, and legumes nourish the microbiome. That in turn strengthens the immune system and reduces inflammation in the gut.

As stated in the talk, the mechanisms are not fully understood, nevertheless it is established that there is indeed a positive effect.
08-26-2017, 09:43 PM   #5
hugh
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““The finding is remarkable because it means that a Crohn’s patient could also have a beneficial effect on their gut bacteria and inflammation by only switching the type of fat in their diet,” said Alexander Rodriguez-Palacios, DVM, DVSc, PhD, first author on the study and Assistant Professor of Medicine at Case Western Reserve University. “Patients would only need to replace a ‘bad’ fat with a ‘good’ fat, and eat normal amounts.”

[best sheldon voice]
“Jimminy Cricket, those confounded science journalists are trying to bury the truth under the 'official message' – That really gets my gander up”

cant find the original paper/presentation, but every instance of reporting that I have found has been deliberate mis-reporting the results to keep people eating the soylent green...

“Patients would only need to replace a ‘bad’ fat with a ‘good’ fat, and eat normal amounts.”
http://casemed.case.edu/cwrumed360/n...fm?news_id=666
-and we know saturated fats are bad and vegetable seed oils are good, right? Cause that’s what we have been told, but wait... That was cocoa butter and coconut oil? Saturated fats

lets dig in....
“In the new study, a diet of plant-derived “good” fats, including coconut oil or cocoa butter, drastically reduced bacterial diversity in mice with Crohn’s-like disease.”

Wow, plant-derived ‘good’ fats, [y'know, like plant-based diet, and healthy fats, y'know, not those ones that kill ya]

but later....
"Mice fed even low concentrations of coconut oil or cocoa butter also had less severe small intestine inflammation.”
Sooo, does that mean..
-"Mice fed even [only] low concentrations of coconut oil or cocoa butter also had less severe small intestine inflammation.”,

or does it mean....
"Mice fed even low concentrations of coconut oil or cocoa butter [and the other “plant-derived “good” fats"- that shall forever remain nameless(?)] also had less severe small intestine inflammation”.

“Patients would only need to replace a ‘bad’ fat with a ‘good’ fat, and eat normal amounts.”

yeah, ‘bad’ fats, heart disease, cholesterol, saturated fat, 60 years of propaganda.......
yeah ‘good’ fats, heart healthy, plant derived, planet destroying monoculture,
oh, but....
eat cocoa butter and coconut oil,
what about the omega-6 pro-inflammatory vegetable seed oils?
hmmm, could’a been a bit clearer?


let’s try this one......
"In the new study, a diet of plant-derived "good" fats, including coconut oil or cocoa butter, drastically reduced bacterial diversity in mice with Crohn's-like disease. “
https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0622121911.htm

“good fat, bad fat”, got it, “plant-derived”, got it,
don’t need to to read anymore

“a diet of plant-derived "good" fats, including coconut oil or cocoa butter, “
yes, good fats and, surprisingly, coconut and cocoa, got it

"Patients would only need to replace a 'bad' fat with a 'good' fat, and eat normal amounts."
right, got the message

and the last line, love it....
“The trick now is to really discover what makes a fat 'good' or 'bad' for Crohn's disease."

because it’s complicated, remember......

i haven’t given up, lets try this.......
“A high-fat diet may cause changes to gut bacteria that could fight harmful inflammation, according to new research presented at Digestive Disease Week.”
https://www.mdlinx.com/gastroenterology/article/917

ohhhh, do tell.....

“Findings shows that a diet of plant-derived fats, such as coconut oil or cocoa butter, markedly reduced bacterial diversity in mice with a disease process similar to Crohn’s. “


so waaaaaait a minute, here’s a good time to ask.....
Has anyone anywhere seen what they did in the study?

-Were they adding fat and eating less carbs?
or
-did they replace the “bad fats” (butter? animal fat?) that they were eating with “plant-derived "good" fats, including coconut oil or cocoa butter."?
or
-did they replace the “good fats” that they were eating with “plant-derived "good" fats, including coconut oil or cocoa butter."?
or
-did they just add “plant-derived "good" fats, including coconut oil or cocoa butter."?

anyone?anyone?anyone

Putting all that aside, obviously wasn’t important.....

my rant.....
plant-derived, yup, reduced diversity? you mean less is good when they are fucking you up inside???????, who’da thunk?,
ok , got it
“plant-derived "good" fats, including......”
check
“reduced activity”
wow, fat did that?
- less carbs? different fat? more fat?

““Ongoing studies are now helping us to understand which component of the ‘good’ and ‘bad’ fats make the difference in the gut microbes and make mice healthier,” Dr. Rodriguez-Palacios said. “Ultimately, we aim to identify the ‘good’ fat-loving microbes for testing as probiotics.”


ohhh, tooo long, lets edit that....
““Ongoing studies are now helping us to [understand which component of the ‘good’ and ‘bad’ fats make the difference in the gut microbes and make mice healthier,” Dr. Rodriguez-Palacios said. “Ultimately, we aim to] identify the ‘good’ fat-loving microbes for testing as probiotics.

et voila
““Ongoing studies are now helping us to identify the ‘good’ fat-loving microbes for testing as probiotics.”

and right at the end...
“but diet is something we are very hopeful could help at least some patients without the side-effects and risks carried by drugs. The trick now is to really discover what makes a fat ‘good’ or ‘bad’ for Crohn’s disease.”

wow, “at least some”? hardly worth looking at diet then is, lets have a cure....
ohhh wait, it’s a treatment? how long do i have to take this for? what? forever? how am i going to pay for that?

I’d almost given up,
but then i found some hippy-dippy ‘organic’ not-scientific crowd


“Coconut Oil Breakthrough For Crohn's Disease"
"Good fats can bring about positive changes in your gut bacteria, decreasing the symptoms of this debilitating, long-term condition. One caveat, though, is that the fat must be derived from plants"
http://www.organicandhealthy.org/201...or-crohns.html
whose link for “good” fats takes me to mercola, check it out....

heck.... “One caveat, though, is that the fat must be derived from plants”, hell, must be plant derived!!!!
dalek noises in head.... “ca-ve-at, ca-ve-at, ca-ve-at...”

"Scientists used animal models (mice), which were given two different diets. One group was fed “good” fats, such as coconut oil and cocoa butter. The other group was given a “normal” diet.”
-"“good” fats, such as coconut oil and cocoa butter" - so, not your AHA, dietician approved vegetable seed oil 'good' fats, saturated heart disease 'bad' good fats?
-normal diet? sad mouse diet? healthy mouse diet?
whatever

“Mice fed beneficial fatty diets had up to [30] percent fewer kinds of gut bacteria as those fed a normal diet, collectively resulting in a very different gut microbial composition … Mice fed even low concentrations of coconut oil or cocoa butter also had less severe small intestine inflammation.”
same words, same lack of clarity

“Rodriguez-Palacios noted that all (human) patients need to do to glean similar effects in their bodies is to “replace a 'bad' fat with a 'good' fat, and eat normal amounts”


[exhausted tantrum] “but howwwwww?, it’s so difficult, please, tell me howwwwww.........”
(remember, 'good fats' like coconut oil and cocoa butter, not 'good fats like corn oil and rapeseed oil....-)

“interestingly, a portion at the opening of the intestine, called the cecum, is where Crohn’s disease typically causes the most inflammation, and that was an area positively impacted by coconut oil on the subjects in the study.”


what, coconut oil? not “plant-derived “good” fats inluding coconut oil”,
what the hell are “plant-derived “good” fats” then?

“Rodriguez-Palacios said he believes the findings could help doctors identify beneficial bacteria that could treat patients with ongoing inflammatory bowel disorders and said the next move will be to identify which components in said good and bad fats make the difference in gut microbes”

checkmate......
or as i misquoted earlier.....
““Ongoing studies are now helping us to identify the ‘good’ fat-loving microbes for testing as probiotics.”

and, farkinell, it takes a while to get to this......
"Besides the coconut oil and cocoa butter used in the study as good fats, scientists also used other delicious sources of good fats such as avocados, nuts (particularly macadamias, pecans and walnuts), salmon (and note that wild-caught Alaskan salmon is the healthiest variety) and extra-virgin olive oil.”

Read that list, are they shitting me?, that’s all real food, ZERO ‘plant-derived corporate waste product’ 'good' oil in that list.

I’ll have the “plant-derived” wild alaskan salmon, thanks......
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Last edited by hugh; 08-26-2017 at 10:00 PM.
08-31-2017, 09:41 AM   #6
OleJ
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Hugh, your last post left me confused. What exactly is it that you want to say? I get that you state a criticism towards the conclusions in (one/more?) studies. As I understand it you question the beneficial role of a plant based diet in CD? Or am I wrong?

Could you maybe write up a summary of you criticism, and give references to warrent your claims?
The role of diet in CD is an interesting topic, and I think we all want to educate ourselves as much as possible.
Maybe it is just the form I find it hard to navigate: where you quote something and comment it below.
Or maybe I am the only one having problems getting the bigger picture here?
09-01-2017, 02:19 AM   #7
hugh
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Hugh, your last post left me confused. What exactly is it that you want to say? I get that you state a criticism towards the conclusions in (one/more?) studies. As I understand it you question the beneficial role of a plant based diet in CD? Or am I wrong?
Hi ,
Sorry, it was a bit of a rant, wasn't it?
My problem wasn't with the study (which I still haven't found or read yet). It was with the reporting.
The study itself seems straightforward, mice prone to the mouse analogue of crohns were fed a diet high in specific fats and had a corresponding decrease in “inflammatory” bacteria.
All very vague with plenty of 'might's and 'could 's,
A little bit of talk about reducing the complex interactions to a probiotic pill.
just what you would expect.....
I have not seen the study or the conclusions, and my web search hasn't turned it up yet.

My problem is that we have been indoctrinated for the last 50 or sixty years about 'good' fats and 'bad' fats,[1] so by using those labels the lazy (to give them the benefit of the doubt) journalists are reinforcing a belief that this study does not support.

A quick google of mainstream medical opinion will show that saturated fats are 'bad', right up there with trans fats, while vegetable seed oils are 'good' fats because they contain polyunsaturated fats.
While many polyunsaturated fats are in fact good (sardines, walnuts etc), there is serious doubt about processed seed oils[2].
Using those generic and incorrect terms will mislead anyone who does not read more deeply and understand the actual findings of the study.

Could you maybe write up a summary of you criticism, and give references to warrent your claims?
The role of diet in CD is an interesting topic, and I think we all want to educate ourselves as much as possible.
Maybe it is just the form I find it hard to navigate: where you quote something and comment it below.
Or maybe I am the only one having problems getting the bigger picture here?
Once again, sorry, It was a rant.

In that post I took one link at a time, so all the quotes between the first link and the second (highlighted) are from the first article,
the quotes between the second and third link from the next article and those after the third link are from the last article.

My main objection is with the lazy deceptive use of the terms 'good' fat and 'bad' fat.
Laying on top of that the 'plant-derived' term to help reinforce the 'plant-based' diet dogma that is popular at the moment doesn't help.
Without the study we have no knowledge of what went on, but to take the observation that "Mice fed even low concentrations of coconut oil or cocoa butter also had less severe small intestine inflammation” and twisting it into
a diet of plant-derived “good” fats, including coconut oil or cocoa butter” seems a little dishonest.
At the end of the third article i find that the diet included “"Besides the coconut oil and cocoa butter used in the study as good fats, scientists also used other delicious sources of good fats such as avocados, nuts (particularly macadamias, pecans and walnuts), salmon ....and extra-virgin olive oil.

To take a generic term 'good fat', that has overwhelmingly been used to describe what is now becoming known to actually be a bad fat reeks of deception and I felt compelled to point it out.

My last point was that there is no mention of the proimmflamatory genetically engineered planet destroying corporate monoculture 'good' oils in the list of fats fed to the mice and i thought that that was worth pointing out because it was easy to miss if one read the articles.

And i'm pretty sure salmon oil isn't plant-derived too......

Sorry, lazy on the references, these days it is possible to find studies and credentialed bloggers supporting both sides of any argument, so pick the one you like and googles algorithms will support your preference....

[1] Why Oil is Bad for You
“We were all trained that vegetable oils were good and butter was bad. We were told, even by government and medical associations, to use more vegetable, seed and bean oils (like soybean, corn, safflower, canola). Chances are, this reader’s mom (like most of us) was convinced by the government and food industries that vegetable oils are safe to use as a heart-healthy alternative over traditional saturated fats.
We were told that traditional fats like butter, lard, and coconut oil caused high cholesterol and clogged arteries, leading to heart disease. Experts advised us to avoid saturated fat and eat more polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs), especially omega 6 fats. “

http://drhyman.com/blog/2016/01/29/w...s-bad-for-you/

[2] Why Oil is Bad for You
“Dr. Joseph Hibbeln from the National Institutes of Health has researched the impact of omega 6 and omega 3 fats on our health. He explains that over-consuming omega 6 fats and under-consuming omega 3 fats significantly increases:
Heart disease
Type 2 diabetes
Obesity
Metabolic syndrome or pre-diabetes
Irritable bowel syndrome
Inflammatory bowel syndrome
Macular degeneration (eye damage and blindness)
Rheumatoid arthritis
Asthma
Cancer
Psychiatric disorders
Autoimmune disease


http://drhyman.com/blog/2016/01/29/w...s-bad-for-you/
09-06-2017, 10:29 AM   #8
OleJ
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Thanks for the elaborate explanation.
Especially this sentence made it clear to me what you mean:

My problem is that we have been indoctrinated for the last 50 or sixty years about 'good' fats and 'bad' fats,[1] so by using those labels the lazy (to give them the benefit of the doubt) journalists are reinforcing a belief that this study does not support.

Totally agree with you on this one:

Sorry, lazy on the references, these days it is possible to find studies and credentialed bloggers supporting both sides of any argument, so pick the one you like and googles algorithms will support your preference....

Unless a topic is something you are an expert in, in which case I would think you would have better odds determining which references are more credible.

As you say, one should seem to think it is now well established that it is Omega-3 fat that is "good" (whether plant or animal based):

There are numerous controversies in the literature on the effects of ω3FA in the prevention or treatment of IBD, but their effects in reducing inflammation is incontestable. - source ->:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4700845/
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