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Crohn's Disease Forum » Surgery » Sugery -- Laproscopic or open-abdomen??


12-30-2009, 03:56 PM   #1
ErinDF
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Sugery -- Laproscopic or open-abdomen??

Hi all,

I feel like many people on this site have had surgery and there is a definite mix of laproscopic surgeries and traditional open-abdominal surgeries. So I thought I'd do a little survey thread .

If you've had surgery, what kind did you have? When did you have it? Was it done laproscopically or open? Why? (Did you doctor discuss both options with you?)

I've had two surgeries -- a (then) temporary ileostomy and a (now) permanent colostomy (with parts of my intestines and rectum removed). Both were in the last year and a half. Both were done laproscopically (though I was warned my doctor might have to open me up if there were problems). The doctor told me that laproscopic surgeries were much quicker recoveries because there is no incision and that infection was less likely (for the same reason).

What about the rest of you?
Erin
12-30-2009, 04:03 PM   #2
CrohnieCarolyn
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Mine was open abdominal and very painful and a long recovery time - this was back in 1998 so maybe they hadn't perfected the laproscopical procedure - don't know as it was never an option - I had about 18 inches of the ileum removed where the small intestine joins the large - no infection thank Gawd but it was very painful when i moved, coughed, laughed or breathed it seemed -
12-30-2009, 04:05 PM   #3
GoJohnnyGo
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I got split open like a pea pod. Laproscopy of the abdomen area wasn't a common procedure 20 years ago.

Gall bladder, appendix, resections at opposite ends of my small intestine.... one stop shopping! LOL

Last edited by GoJohnnyGo; 12-30-2009 at 04:47 PM.
12-30-2009, 04:11 PM   #4
DanSJVDavis
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Mine was open, but the circumstances warranted it, both times. And it was in the mid 90's and late 90's. The first major surgery was for a perforated bowel and they needed to open me up to find out exactly where it burst. The second time they needed to remove a bunch of scar tissue and such that had formed in there from the first surgery and peritonitis. The first surgery removed a few inches of small intestine including my terminal ilium. The second removed maybe another inch of small intestine that had strictured a bit from scar tissue from the first surgery. The first surgery included an ostomy for about 6 months. Gods I hate iliostomies. It's like non-stop bag emptying and non-stop eating. It sucked. I was never more happy than I was to get that reversal. The second surgery scared me because I was afraid they'd be giving me another ostomy, but was relieved when I woke up and found they hadn't. In total I've had a fistula removed, the emergency ostomy and the reversal, and the de-scarring, So, 4 surgeries for Crohn's, since I was diagnosed in maybe '86 or '87. I've lost track on how long it's been, but I was either 16 or 17 and in high school. So that would put it around '86-'87.
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12-30-2009, 04:39 PM   #5
MINI Cooper
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My surgery was a big slice right down the middle.
I think a pic is probably still on here in the 'battle scars' thread.
Thats when I first learned I had Crohn's. Going untreated had left
me so badly inflamed, that my appendix ruptured and they didnt
have time to wait around or explore other options.

My doctor said next time I flare, I am going to have another surgery,
no ifs, ands or buts. He said no way laproscopic, which is unfortunate,
because when I flare I have too many fistulas and obstructions, they
will have to open me up (again) and do a resection. My illuem is on
borrowed time.
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12-30-2009, 04:45 PM   #6
imisspopcorn
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I've had one laproscopic (exploratory before Crohn's) and a lapro GB removal and the resection was traditional. I've also had 2 C-Sections....(I have a friend with UC who just had a ileostomy done. They used the hole where her stoma would be to remove the entire Colon. No incision.)

I'm afraid to know what sort of scar tissue I have. I felt so much better after the resection that the incision pain was actually a relief.
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12-30-2009, 05:43 PM   #7
shawne
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I've been opened up twice. My first one was in '92 and my last one was just this past summer. I pretty much lost my summer to crohns. I spent all of august recovering. My first one was an emergency situation and there was no time to discuss alternatives although i don't believe laproscopic was even on the table at that time. This past surgory I asked before hand and was told that it was unlikely they could do laproscopic due to scarring from my previous surgory.
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12-30-2009, 06:21 PM   #8
Peaches
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Man, I'm not liking the having to have a incision because of scar tissue bit I'm hearing! I had to have an incision because it was back in 96 and that was what they did back then. They told me it would be from stem to stern - but the morning they came in to get me for surgery I asked if they could do a small incision so I could still wear a bikini (vain!) and when I came out - I only had a 2-3" scar thankfully. It was pretty painful while I was in the hospital, but healed pretty quickly.
12-30-2009, 06:57 PM   #9
DanSJVDavis
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Well, much of the scarring they removed on me was from the healing from the peritonitis. Guess the internal scarring was extensive because of that. The nice thing was that when they did open me back up that way the surgeon actually sewed me up real nice and made the original scar much smaller as a result. He said that the reason why it was so big and nasty looking the last time, with staples, was that it was an emergency surgery. He was able to take his time with it the second time and stitch it instead.
12-30-2009, 07:00 PM   #10
Peaches
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Ahhh...so stitching = less scarring than staples? I had staples and I have this (all be it small) nasty keloid type scar that is about 1/3" wide. I always thought it was because my family found joy in causing me pain by making me laugh while I was in the hospital. Figured that made it wider from the pressure than it should have been....
12-30-2009, 09:41 PM   #11
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Had lapro last month. Recovery was kind of a b!tch, but I doubt it was nearly as bad being opened up. Took about 2 weeks for full recovery.
12-30-2009, 10:46 PM   #12
MINI Cooper
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Peaches said:
but the morning they came in to get me for surgery I asked if they could do a small incision so I could still wear a bikini (vain!) and when I came out - I only had a 2-3" scar thankfully.
I still wear a bikini despite my big scar. It reminds me that I
am a survivor. I am proud of it!
01-04-2010, 03:14 PM   #13
krahsdnal
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I get to find out which way - sliced or small holes on Thursday (1/7). I am thinking sliced that way the DR can get a good view of the area and make sure he gets it all.
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01-04-2010, 03:34 PM   #14
Peaches
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Good luck with that....I would probably go lappy unless they said they couldn't be as thorough without slicing. That way you heal up quicker with less chance of infection - but that is just me.
01-05-2010, 07:03 PM   #15
kenny
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they opened me up to do an Illeosecal resection. Removed partial ileum, the secum, appendix and marginal colon at secum. The good thing about this was seeing the fistulas that had formed to my Transverse colon and examination for other strictures. That would have been missed if they did not eviscerate me.

Great thing was the incision only went from Pelvis to Belly button. It was glued externally to close as well so only a very small clean scar and minimal muscle damage.
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Last edited by kenny; 01-05-2010 at 07:10 PM.
01-05-2010, 07:44 PM   #16
imisspopcorn
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Kenny...How are you??
01-05-2010, 09:04 PM   #17
Peaches
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HEY Kenny!! Yes, how have you been?? Nice to hear from you.....
01-05-2010, 09:09 PM   #18
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I noticed Kenny is in Canada, he has probably been busy digging out snow! How have you been Kenny?
01-09-2010, 12:44 AM   #19
Jennifer
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I had both done at the same time in 2000. Removed my ileum, appendix and 8" of small intestine. So I have one big scar and three tiny ones. The large scar would have been smaller had it healed properly but it didn't and I had to heal from the inside out for a month by washing it and getting it packed twice a day.
01-09-2010, 06:35 PM   #20
ErinDF
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Thanks for all the answers. Definitely seems to be a mix...though perhaps divided more by decade than by surgical type. :P
01-10-2010, 10:47 PM   #21
wqcoleman
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my vote.. neither..

reading this post (http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=5618) makes me NEVER ever want to consider surgery unless I'm going to die (which I felt that way a few weeks ago).

If I'm in the hospital at 100 lbs and I'm at deaths door and they tell me unless they do "x" and I'll die from Crohn's... I might consider it... might.

I can hardly heal from a hernia repair I had in May (it's Jan '10 and I still have puss pockets in the wound that I pop daily trying to drain and heal them). So, to think that I could do a major surgery and heal, is well, just insane. They said, "well, laproscopy is the arthroscopic knee surgery for the abdomen".. yea? ... well, you do it to yourself when you're on prednizone, anti-tnf blockers.. etc... I swear most surgeons just like to cut things... that's their job.. and they love the challenge.. well, they can cut on a dummy before they cut me, or a seven up can or something.. I'll hand them the scalpel, just not on me.

But I'm sooooooo glad that I've gotten honest with myself about diet and food and really take a look at the underlying issue, which is, I am what I eat..

I will take this and run with it.. I'm glad I read those books (SCD Diet, Elaine Gottschall) before even responding to those idiot doctors/surgeons. I feel more aware of my body then at any time in my life (which, sadly is the truth and I'm not proud of it)... and to think that I would have considered the surgery route is just frankly nuts.

I know some people need surgery and might be worse off then me, but I've read others posts here.. and frankly losing 70 lbs in 6 months, not eating, constant PAIN, wasting away, no hope, sick, vomit, etc.. no working drugs.. etc.. That was me.. 8 times in the hospital in 2009, at least 2 months of my life... I was sick, real sick.

I woke up Christmas 09 after the Doctor telling me a colectomy was the next step and I decided to change my life DRASTICALLY! and I'm not looking back, no matter how "selfish" I feel... (oh, I need some sweet tarts to make me feel good.. BullS&*t).

Also, when we are motivated by our own mortality, that is... we are going to die if we don't change.. these "drastic" changes I'm talking about are rather trivial... We cannot ignore the mind/body connection... when I'm vectored right and motivated to change, things happen (I learned this in the Military, to have no fear, otherwise you're useless in battle and you will die - they don't shoot blanks).

I have hope today.. for the first time in several years.. and man that's worth all the doctors/surgeons/drugs.. in the world. No matter how bad I might feel in a given day, I know I can control what I put into my body and how I treat myself, and that's something I've ignored for far far far far far too long.
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01-11-2010, 12:51 AM   #22
misscris
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I had a surprise resection surgery in March 2009. What they thought was a hernia turned out to be an abcess, caused by a perforation. Apparently I was a mess. So I had 2 incisions, 2 beautiful scars, and had 1 incision get an infection. I only hope that I don't have to have scar tissue removed from mine because it seeems there is already a good amount of scar tissue. The lower incision wasn't stapled shut tightly. They wanted it left partially open, so the scar is wider then the other one that was stapled tightly.

The doctors didn't disucss the options with me because neither him nor I knew all that was going on in there. I was supposed to have a simple outpatient hernia surgery. haha I guess I had to give him a challenge from his simple surgeries. I guess he could go home and tell his wife he had a different day!
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02-01-2010, 09:02 AM   #23
Nyx
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I just recently had an emergency colostomy (December 2009). They cut me from about an inch above my bellybutton to just above my pubis. I too had the packing and staples, so I have a lovely 8 inch red, wide scar. I actually don't mind it, besides the itching!!! I didn't get the option of the type of surgery I got. Hopefully I'll get the choice when it comes time to have my rectum removed (I find that out next week).
02-01-2010, 09:17 AM   #24
merrywidow
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wqcoleman said:
my vote.. neither..

reading this post (http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=5618) makes me NEVER ever want to consider surgery unless I'm going to die (which I felt that way a few weeks ago). .
i have had the same surgey as kello and my life is so much better now.
the surgey had its problem though they kindly gave me MRSA so i had a long recovery time. but i would do it all again, much better than pooping my pants in public.
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02-01-2010, 11:47 PM   #25
Nytefyre
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My belly was opened up for surgery. Laparoscopy was a no go.
02-11-2010, 11:42 PM   #26
kello82
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wqcoleman said:
my vote.. neither..

reading this post (http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=5618) makes me NEVER ever want to consider surgery unless I'm going to die (which I felt that way a few weeks ago).

If I'm in the hospital at 100 lbs and I'm at deaths door and they tell me unless they do "x" and I'll die from Crohn's... I might consider it... might.

I can hardly heal from a hernia repair I had in May (it's Jan '10 and I still have puss pockets in the wound that I pop daily trying to drain and heal them). So, to think that I could do a major surgery and heal, is well, just insane. They said, "well, laproscopy is the arthroscopic knee surgery for the abdomen".. yea? ... well, you do it to yourself when you're on prednizone, anti-tnf blockers.. etc... I swear most surgeons just like to cut things... that's their job.. and they love the challenge.. well, they can cut on a dummy before they cut me, or a seven up can or something.. I'll hand them the scalpel, just not on me.

But I'm sooooooo glad that I've gotten honest with myself about diet and food and really take a look at the underlying issue, which is, I am what I eat..

I will take this and run with it.. I'm glad I read those books (SCD Diet, Elaine Gottschall) before even responding to those idiot doctors/surgeons. I feel more aware of my body then at any time in my life (which, sadly is the truth and I'm not proud of it)... and to think that I would have considered the surgery route is just frankly nuts.

I know some people need surgery and might be worse off then me, but I've read others posts here.. and frankly losing 70 lbs in 6 months, not eating, constant PAIN, wasting away, no hope, sick, vomit, etc.. no working drugs.. etc.. That was me.. 8 times in the hospital in 2009, at least 2 months of my life... I was sick, real sick.

I woke up Christmas 09 after the Doctor telling me a colectomy was the next step and I decided to change my life DRASTICALLY! and I'm not looking back, no matter how "selfish" I feel... (oh, I need some sweet tarts to make me feel good.. BullS&*t).

Also, when we are motivated by our own mortality, that is... we are going to die if we don't change.. these "drastic" changes I'm talking about are rather trivial... We cannot ignore the mind/body connection... when I'm vectored right and motivated to change, things happen (I learned this in the Military, to have no fear, otherwise you're useless in battle and you will die - they don't shoot blanks).

I have hope today.. for the first time in several years.. and man that's worth all the doctors/surgeons/drugs.. in the world. No matter how bad I might feel in a given day, I know I can control what I put into my body and how I treat myself, and that's something I've ignored for far far far far far too long.
aw coleman im sorry that my surgery thread freaked you out =/ that was not my intesntion at all, but at times i have worried whether it just made people, especially those new to the disease, more fearful then they already must be feeling.
i am just curious, what is it specifically about my experiences that makes you never want to have surgery? is it the PG and stuff and all the nast photos??
just curious really.

i really feel for you, i have been where you are. i changed my life, but with not the same motivation you have. dont get me wrong, i thought that the ostomy would be my doom. but, i see it that i was too far gone by the time i changed and started the SCD and everything. i dont think i had the hope that you have.
so i wish with everything in me that your changes on the outside will affect change on the inside
i wish for you to get well and to never have to resort to the surgery.
and i wish that if by slim chance you must have that surgery, that youll feel the peace that i finally did in making the decision.

we each know what is best for our bodies, and if we dont know, then its not the time yet to know.

wow that was deep huh.....that came out of MY brain just now...
and i didnt even take any klonopin tonight HAH!
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Last edited by kello82; 02-11-2010 at 11:46 PM.
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