Blood! Urgent

I just went to the toilet and had a lot of blood in my Diarrhoea. I've had Crohn's since 2004 and never had this happen. Last night I had really severe pains and now this. I'm really worried.

Should I go to the hospital? Is it normal to have blood in diarrhoea?

For some people yes.

But it's not normal for you. See a doctor.

Ok, it seemed like a lot and it has happened twice in the past half hour. I haven't been to the toilet for a couple of days which is unusual for me.

I'd go get it checked out. You don't want to wind up needing a transfusion (been there, done that)...

If constipation isn't usual and it happened to you then you definitely see a doctor.

As far as blood transfusions go, I got used to transfusions. I had 3 this summer.

I had 7 in the hospital after my surgery in December...good times!

Winmaker- blood occurs when your own digestive acids have eaten thru the intestinal wall- then penetrating a blood vessel wall. often this occurs at the same time as mucus shows up.
The diarrhea is from your body by dumping lots of water into the colon to protect it from from your own stomach acids- that are irritating "eating" the tissue- by diluting the acid. The mucus is nothing other than "coagulated" fluid from the immune system- used by the body in another attempt to block the acid. Has your Doctor given you asacol? You gotta replace the mucosal lining that protects the intestinal tissue.

I've had this as a symptom of a bad flare. If this is new for you, go to the hospital, please. Not to upset you, but in my experience Crohn's has a way of getting ugly fast. The sooner you go, the quicker they start treatment, and that's always a good thing.

Best wishes and please keep us posted!

gastroman said:

Winmaker- blood occurs when your own digestive acids have eaten thru the intestinal wall- then penetrating a blood vessel wall. often this occurs at the same time as mucus shows up.
The diarrhea is from your body by dumping lots of water into the colon to protect it from from your own stomach acids- that are irritating "eating" the tissue- by diluting the acid. The mucus is nothing other than "coagulated" fluid from the immune system- used by the body in another attempt to block the acid. Has your Doctor given you asacol? You gotta replace the mucosal lining that protects the intestinal tissue.

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Out of curiosity, source?
Because that is not what I have been told by doctors.

what were you told?

Bleeding in the intestinal tract is for the most part caused by an autoimmune response which causes ulcerations in the lining of the gut, for UC is it is mostly contained in the epithelial layer, whereas for Crohn's it's deeper. Diarrhoea is due to the malfunctioning of the colon where the main job, beside acting as a holding tank for waste, is to absorb and remove water from waste, the malfunctioning colon doesn't remove water as it should, hence diarrhoea.

ibs- colitic- u.c.-crohn's -leaky gut- are all the same condition -with the only difference being in the degree of damage do to the tissue- similar to 1st-2nd -3rd degree burns.
al with the same cause- having nothing to do with the immune system- IF that WERE the case- why doesn't it get better when immune suppressive drugs are used? This is all caused by one common drug.This tissue can all be rebuilt- like new.

A lot of people do get better on immune suppressing drugs. I know I improve with immune suppressing drugs.

And you still haven't shared your source.

myself- over 30 yrs of making it go away- don't settle- for just improving.

My doctor told me that bleeding is caused by the inflammation of the bowel walls narrowing the space the stool passes through. When stool passes through the ulcerated areas it causes bleeding. If the blood is dark, is from the small intestine, if it's bright red, it's from the sigmoid/rectal area.

I wouldn't compare IBS to Crohn's. I actually have both, and IBS is barely an annoyance compared to the agony I've experienced from Crohn's'. Between fistulas, iritis, destruction of the joints-it's sheer hell and I don't have anywhere near as bad as many here.

Also, a person with IBS may feel sick but is actually healthy-bowel is normal, white cells, inflammation normal. No fever, no bleeding, no ulcerations, no infection. IBS is basically a hyper-sensitive digestive tract; Crohn's is a disease that is degenerative. Two entirely different animals.

ok

how did the bowel get inflamed? how do the ulcerations develop? ibs- how does it get sensitive? crohns -how does it degenerate?

I found this on the CCFA website:
"The immune system is composed of various cells and proteins. Normally, these protect the body from infection. In people with Crohn's disease, however, the immune system reacts inappropriately. Researchers believe that the immune system mistakes microbes, such as bacteria that is normally found in the intestines, for foreign or invading substances, and launches an attack. In the process, the body sends white blood cells into the lining of the intestines, where they produce chronic inflammation. These cells then generate harmful products that ultimately lead to ulcerations and bowel injury. When this happens, the patient experiences the symptoms of IBD.

Studies indicate that the inflammation in IBD involves a complex interaction of factors: the genes the person has inherited, the immune system, and something in the environment. Foreign substances (antigens) in the environment may be the direct cause of the inflammation, or they may stimulate the body's defenses to produce an inflammation that continues without control. Researchers believe that once the IBD patient's immune system is "turned on," it does not know how to properly "turn off" at the right time. As a result, inflammation damages the intestine and causes the symptoms of IBD. That is why the main goal of medical therapy is to help patients regulate their immune system better."

It is degenerative in that eventually it leads to severe damage to the areas being attacked by the immune system;especially if it doesn't respond well to the medication.

CCFA has alot of good educational information about Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis; also there are many people here that are WAY better educated than me on this disease lol. Just search the threads.

WINE.... I had major output of blood and very watery too. It is normal in a severe flare. You should plan on seeing a doctor as soon as you can. Be sure to be drinking plenty of fluids and if you can tolerate it take orange juice or some sort electrolyte replacement...ask your pharmacist what would be the best electrolyte replacement that you can buy over the counter...a lot of sports drinks that have electrolytes in them have way too much sugar in them and dump water into the bowels which is no good for us crohnies! I hope you get some relief soon...hang in there!

Does this make any sense?
The immune system acts "appropriately" in response to 2 things- 1. the release of food particles- through the intestinal wall such as in leaky gut & also bacteria from the gut. 2. it mis-identifies the food as an enemy which triggers an immune response.
Perhaps the root is the problem is the prior use of antibiotics- which destroys the mucosal lining that is supposed to protect the GI tract lining from stomach acids & also acts like a localized immune system killing any negative bacteria. This mucosal lining is made of "good' bacteria- such as probiotics. When it is not there our own digestive acids eat away at the intestinal tissue- meaning that the immune system is only doing it's job under unnatural circumstances. It will never stop trying to work for you until you go back & fix the original problem - re-installing the mucosal lining- in a way that is permanent preventing the tissue damage & managing the good/bad bacteria balance by keeping the proper ph level- then there will be nothing for the immune system to respond to.
As for genetics- perhaps the pre-disposition stays dormant unless it is "prodded" by the above. Perhaps this explains the many people who actually get healed.
Just some random thoughts I had while eating breakfast.

Thanks for your replies guys, it means a lot. I went to hospital last night but won't see a specialist until tomorrow. I haven't been to the toilet since yesterday when there was blood. Everytime I pass wind it stinks so bad, worse than ever before. The doctors don't seem to worried about the bleeding but I can't wait to find out what is going on. I certainly feel way more comfortable being in hospital. I am getting stomach cramps but I think it is trapped wind.

Fingers crossed its nothing too serious. I'm pretty nervous though

Winemaker it add to what Lynx was said about electrolytes. There are some sugarless products out there. I used a product called Nuun, I get mine from a store called MEC which is all about hiking and camping stuff.
It's a tablet you dissolve in water, it's basically gatorade, without the sugar and taste. It is mildly flavoured, but the flavour is kind of meh.

Wine, the cramping and odor you're getting is pretty normal in a flare, the doctors should be able to give you something for the cramping.

Glad to hear your getting treated, hope you get some answers and are on the road to recovery soon!

Keep us posted, sending healing thoughts and hugs your way!:hug:

If the issue was digestive acids then the inflammation wouldn't be localized. The acid is contained in the stomach, enzymes further breakdown the food and nutrients are removed in the small intestine and the large intestine removes water.

I have UC, so only inflammation in the colon. When in a flare inflammation in the colon starts at the rectum and heads up, and healing goes the opposite direction. If acid was the issue, the ulcerations would be along the entire length of the intestines starting at the top, and wouldn't be localized n the colon, my small intestine would be affected too.

Crohn's, on the other hand, can attack any part, including areas along the tract that prior to the stomach. Seeing as the esophagus and gums can be affected, and they only in rare and extreme cases of vomiting come into contact with stomach acid, the stomach acid theory doesn't seem to hold up.

Just saw the specialist and he ordered a colonscopy for wednesday morning. He spoke about putting me on anti TNF treatment and perhaps the possibil of having surgery. Now I'm even more nervous.

the anti-TNF stuff is fairly common. Is it one of the biologics? The first dose I had of Remicade pulled me out a 6 month flare.
Everything sounds worse than it really is.

Hey Wine, hope you are doing o.k. Keep us posted, kay?

If Wine has a colonoscopy tomorrow, today he must be preping.

Best wishes, Wine! <3 But I agree with Dras, please keep us updated <3

Wine,
I hope you are doing ok, at least you are in the hospital so being treated before it gets to bad. The anti-tnfs are not to bad and seem to work wonders!

Gastroman,

I am sorry but you can't cure crohn's disease. The closest the docs have come is through stem cell transplants and thats still in its infancy.

Crohn's and UC are both auto-immune diseases. Why don't we get "better" when using immunosupressants? Some people do.

Hey guys, had my colonoscopy and gastroscopy. I have a long deep ulcer in my small bowels which is badly infected. I've been on intravenous ciprofloxicin for past 2 days and more tomorrow. Then 3 weeks of it orally followed by a different antibiotic. I'm going to see how it goes but it may need to be removed. Feel like shit, so depressed, just cancelled by holiday sailing the great barrier reef (was supposed to leave on the 8th).

Thanks for tour support guys it really does mean a lot. Gastroman, I'm glad you're not my doctor!

I'm so sorry my friend.... Hope you start feeling better real soon. Cancelling your trip must have been so hard.

Thinking of you all the way.

That was my summer I canceled a trip to Cuba and 3 concerts.

I feel for you.

Wow, so sorry you're suffering! That really sucks, having to be in the hospital, cancel your trip...I've had so many trips ruined this way

I'm grateful you have some answers and are getting treatment; hopefully you'll feel some relief soon. I'm sending healing thoughts your way that the Cipro will work, and nothing further will have to be done.

Bet wishes to you for a speedy recovery!:hug:

vonfunk said:

If the issue was digestive acids then the inflammation wouldn't be localized. The acid is contained in the stomach, enzymes further breakdown the food and nutrients are removed in the small intestine and the large intestine removes water.

I have UC, so only inflammation in the colon. When in a flare inflammation in the colon starts at the rectum and heads up, and healing goes the opposite direction. If acid was the issue, the ulcerations would be along the entire length of the intestines starting at the top, and wouldn't be localized n the colon, my small intestine would be affected too.

Crohn's, on the other hand, can attack any part, including areas along the tract that prior to the stomach. Seeing as the esophagus and gums can be affected, and they only in rare and extreme cases of vomiting come into contact with stomach acid, the stomach acid theory doesn't seem to hold up.

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Confirmed -- just checked this with a friend in medical school as well.

Stomach is a very acidic environment, to assist in breaking down food particles. Stomach lining is very specialized to withstand this; there is a layer of mucous, and cells/glands of the stomach are located under the mucous in order to not be "chewed up" by the low ph/high acidity of the stomach. Duodenum (first part of small intestine) is much less acidic; specific liquids are released here, primarily from the pancreas, to digest foods. There could be a problem with acid leaking into the duodenum, but this would more likely be a duodenal ulcer (acid eats thru the small intestine). There's not a way for acid to get all the way through to the large intestine at all.

Re: blood color -- bright red means source is nearby, darker red means further up; with left-sided UC, (UC may include the whole colon, or just part of it) I've had bright blood that could have been from the colon, or the rectum, or the sigmoid (end portion just before the rectum) of the colon.

thanks guys, had a really rough night last night, temp went from 36 to 39.9 degrees, vomiting bile etc. Feeling heaps better this morning, just a bit bummed. I guess you never think this is how you'll spend your twenties. Anyway, enough self-pity.

Thanks again for your kind messages.

I know it's rough, Wine, but just keep hanging in there. I'm sure better days are ahead for you, just a little more of the rough stuff to get through.

Stay strong, we're all here for you!

I agree with MG, and I just want to add that going through the rough stuff only builds character! And you have every right to pity yourself right about now!

Keep strong!

Dras has a point. It will add character. And from one 20-something to another, this might not be how we want to live out this part of our lives. But remember, you do have the rest of your life to do anything that you think you're missing out on.

Hey guys,

Back at home, feeling a lot better. No pains yet, and hopefully it will stay that way. Meeting with the Doc in 2 weeks to see how things are going, but it looks like I'll start Mercaptopurine after that time. I only weigh 61kg (I'm 6'0"), so need to start putting some weight back on.

Thanks again for your messages.

I bleed heavily during flare-ups, doctors ignored me first time and I ended up needing 5 pints of blood transfused. Hope things get sorted

Hang in there winemaker. Hope you stay pain free.

Thanks so much. I'm seriously considering trying out hookworms. I would rather try that than take drugs that mean I can't hang out in the sunshine without the increased risk of skin cancer (and a bunch of other nasty possible side effects).

I'm moving to a part of Australia tomorrow with the most amazing beaches and if I can't enjoy them, then what's the point.

Will let you know what I decide. I need to run it past my specialist. He's my new doc, so I don't know how he will react.... probably rubbish the idea or laugh.

meardonna said:

I bleed heavily during flare-ups, doctors ignored me first time and I ended up needing 5 pints of blood transfused. Hope things get sorted

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Hope they listen to you now! <3