Crohn's Disease Forum » Books, Multimedia, Research & News » MAP Vaccine Ready for Human Trials - Could be Used for Crohn's


 
10-23-2017, 05:42 AM   #931
Guerrero
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Mongersen a new biologic that was presented as a possible new drug for crohn's showed lack of efficacy and his testing has been stopped.

I hope anti map vaccine will work then. We need a cure!
04-21-2018, 09:06 AM   #932
crohninator
 
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This is what I think about the vaccine. Its actually my last hope.
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04-22-2018, 12:22 PM   #933
ronroush7
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Amen to we need a cure.
04-22-2018, 01:01 PM   #934
OleJ
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Second that.
And until that happens I for one will stay clear of dairy and cow's meat out of precaution.
There is just too much circumstantial evidence around now to ignore the possibility that the MAP present in our food chain is triggering and maybe also perpetuating the inflammation cascade.

A) we know MAP is present in pasteurized milk, cheese, and similar products:

B) we know animals get very sick and die from MAP causing a CD-like condition

C) we know (some of) the CD genes are linked to how the immune system deals with mycobacteria
04-23-2018, 01:34 PM   #935
crohninator
 
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Problem is quite simple: symptomatic medications work in mild cases (in some cases). They do not work for "real" Crohns. But nevertheless this fact doesn't really care anyone and everybody is pretending an "intact world" where we can "controll the disease" and it has "lost its horror".
NO IT HASN'T LOST ITS HORROR - THIS IS ONLY TRUE FOR PHARMCOMPANIES AND THE MAJORITY OF DOCTORS. You cannot control any disease without treating the cause.
08-21-2018, 05:57 PM   #936
wildbill_52280
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I thought this study would be important to understanding the relationship with map and the microbiome.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27494144

My stance is that the pathogen map was not as important as the diversity of the microbiome as a whole, and the no cure would be achieved by eradicating map, but restoring the natural diversity of gi microbiome with perhaps a fecal transplant would be a real cure.
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08-22-2018, 03:10 PM   #937
OleJ
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I agree wild_bill - Several factors seems to lead to that conclusion:
- The RedHill study results found that targeting MAP only led to at partial resolution
- Other bacteria/fungei are strongly implicated in the CD cascade (Candida Tropicalis, E.coli, Serratia marcescens)

This picture better match up with the hypothesis that the microbiome is changed and/or has undergone a reduction in diversity, which promotes the presence of many different kinds of pathogens, and results in inflammation.

Reasons? ...
Maybe the stupid binge drinking that is part of western culture (which I for one have had my fair share of right around the time I got CD).
Maybe the "dead" foods we eat / lack of live (fermented) foods
Maybe the food additives and pesticides in our food
Maybe something else, or maybe all of the above

Regardless, it does make alot of sense to start studying how one can best restore and sustain a healthy microbiota - and FMT is a very interesting study object indeed!
08-22-2018, 11:33 PM   #938
wildbill_52280
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I agree wild_bill - Several factors seems to lead to that conclusion:
- The RedHill study results found that targeting MAP only led to at partial resolution
- Other bacteria/fungei are strongly implicated in the CD cascade (Candida Tropicalis, E.coli, Serratia marcescens)

This picture better match up with the hypothesis that the microbiome is changed and/or has undergone a reduction in diversity, which promotes the presence of many different kinds of pathogens, and results in inflammation.

Reasons? ...
Maybe the stupid binge drinking that is part of western culture (which I for one have had my fair share of right around the time I got CD).
Maybe the "dead" foods we eat / lack of live (fermented) foods
Maybe the food additives and pesticides in our food
Maybe something else, or maybe all of the above

Regardless, it does make alot of sense to start studying how one can best restore and sustain a healthy microbiota - and FMT is a very interesting study object indeed!
According to research: low fiber diet, antibiotics in meat, antibiotics in medical system, vitamin d deficit, emulsifiers that are in most processed foods and all fast food, titanium dioxide food coloring, possibly omega 6 fats. Also factors that stop the restoration of the microbiome like avoiding bacteria too much, we need to be exposed to some degree and build up a diversity but most of this is done when we are born and then breast fed but babies have a knack for putting everything in their mouths so nature makes this pretty easy.

Last edited by wildbill_52280; 08-23-2018 at 12:37 PM.
08-29-2018, 09:52 PM   #939
xeridea
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I've been away awhile. Was going crazy before, grasping at straws. Checked recent developments on this site. Same churn. Nothing new. That's disappointing. Nothing seems to have happened for over a year. Damn it! I'll check back again. Next year.
08-30-2018, 03:37 AM   #940
Crohn2357
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Hey, welcome back.

Same churn. Nothing new. That's disappointing. Nothing seems to have happened for over a year.
I am assuming you have seen the results of the RHB-104 trial. Regardless of the results, that study is a significant event in our waiting for a new promising treatment.

I'd be interested in reading your view on the results of it (though it's not published in a journal yet). There's been a big hype surrounding the map hypothesis, a possibility of treating the "cause", and the treatment having at least a significant remission rate distinct from the other treatments.

Check out these links to read about it: https://www.crohnsforum.com/showthre...t=82362&page=5
https://www.healingwell.com/communit...f=38&m=4044862
08-30-2018, 01:55 PM   #941
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One of my big fears is that if the vaccine fails, many people will believe it will be a reflection on the MAP theory and not simply that the vaccine didn't work (like all of the TB vaccines, which from my count there have been over 20)? Nobody questions TB of course. I hope that I am needlessly worrying and that people know there has never been a therapeutic vaccine that has ever worked except for the recent Hep C one.

Last edited by Mommabear; 08-30-2018 at 03:20 PM.
09-02-2018, 07:21 AM   #942
rollinstone
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Keep praying guys, there is still hope. As disheartening as it is to hear the rhb104 didn't blow all other meds out of the water, at least it's an option outside of immunosuppressive alternatives. I personally have tremendous hope in the SSI vaccine by qu biologics, and believe that their current 56 week trials will demonstrate a cure.
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09-03-2018, 10:19 AM   #943
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My fingers are crossed too rollinstone! I like that they are moving forward, that they have funding (HUGE plus!!!) and that they are looking into why some respond when others take longer to respond or simply don't ... whether a person has been on anti-TNFs. I really like that they have done genetic profiles and can see a pattern with those who have responded. All of those things will help refine this treatment. Plus, they are incredibly nice people!!!
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