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AIEC Vaccine + MAP Vaccine + Funding = Cure Crohn's and Colitis ?

C

ConnectheDots

Greetings,

This is my first post, I have been following this forum for the last few years.

I hope this is the right place to start the thread, if it's not please feel free to move it to the correct forum or sub-forum.

I would like to connect the dots with the 2 vaccines being in the headlines recently. There is already plenty of information about the 2 vaccines in the forum.

In one corner we have Qu Biologics (Canada) that is developing AIEC vaccine and in another corner we have Hermon-Taylor (UK) that is developing a way to test if you have MAP and also produce a MAP vaccines. Both are in human trials and both require Funding. So basically in a few years we should have 2 ways to tackle IBD (UC or CD). This is great news.

Where I can't seem to connect the dots is why do we need to raise funds ? If the initial tests are promising, how come there is are no organization that are giving money ? These two entities are not asking money to find a cure, these two entities believe they found a cure and just want to do human trials, they must already have compelling evidences that it works. It should be very easy for these two entities to get funding at this stage.

I went on the web site http://www.crohnsandcolitis.org.uk but there is just 1 pdf article that talks about MAP. If you look at the annual financial, in 2012 they seem to have raised 3.6M GBP. After reading the annual report, just small amount was giving to research and most of it invested in high interest deposits with some banks.

I don't understand how these 2 vaccines need to raise money if they already seem to have something that will most likely work ? What am I missing here ?

I would like that someone which has knowledge in this field explains me what am I missing ? I can't seem to connect the dots here and I don't know who to ask the question...

Thank you

Connecthedots


Reference:
- MAP ( http://www.crohnsforum.com/wiki/MAP )
- AIEC ( http://www.crohnsforum.com/wiki/AIEC)
- Qu biologics ( http://www.qubiologics.com/)
- MAP Vaccine (http://crohnsmapvaccine.com/vaccine/ )
- MAP Vaccine Funding (https://www.justgiving.com/Run-For-Crohns-MEN3936)
- MAP Benefits / Funding in Minnesota (http://www.crohnsvaccinebenefit.com/)

-Crohnsandcolitis Foundation in UK ( http://www.crohnsandcolitis.org.uk/...ns-and-annual-reports/annual-reports-accounts )
 
DJW

DJW

Forum Monitor
I've always wondered that myself.

I thought Qu Biologics was selling shares (pretty standard practice for a company looking for financing).

I'd never seen the MAP model of fund raising. Don't know how things were done 50 years ago.
 
xeridea

xeridea

I'm starting to see a parallel between the pharmaceutical and hi-tech industries.

There seems to exist a class of "clinical stage" pharmaceutical entities (be they universities or privately funded start-ups) that develop new entries into the market, and deep-pocketed, established "Big" pharma companies that later acquire (license) the product and fold it into their own product line. It seems that Phase I and Phase II trials are generally manageable by the smaller players but the Phase III trials require so much resources that typically only the big players can pull them off.

My take is that Dr. H.T. and Qu fall into the clinical stage start-up category. They have the burden of proof to show their drug/treatment is efficacious, and then they will spin it off to the big guys for bringing it to market.

I know that it has become harder in the U.S. for research labs to concentrate on the actual science and more of their effort is being put into grant writing due to reduced funding sources from the likes of NIH. Perhaps it is the same in Canada and the U.K. from their research funding sources.

It's natural then to resort to unconventional methods to try to raise funds to pursue your passion if you believe you have the answer to help millions of people.

But hey, if you can spare a few dollar/pound/euro to the cause then why not. No one's being forced to do it. In the meantime, if we choose to get treatment, we will directly or indirectly encumber thousands upon thousands per month for current medication and interventions.
 
rollinstone

rollinstone

As far as I know qu doesn't need anymore funding (I could be wrong though with mention of further studies I.e phase 1, 2 and 3) I thought they were just going through the slow process it takes to get a drug approved, hopefully they can fast track it once these current trial results come back (I'm fairly sure they're going to be more efficacious than anything to date).
 
S

Scared1

ConnectheDots said:
Greetings,

This is my first post, I have been following this forum for the last few years.

I hope this is the right place to start the thread, if it's not please feel free to move it to the correct forum or sub-forum.

I would like to connect the dots with the 2 vaccines being in the headlines recently. There is already plenty of information about the 2 vaccines in the forum.

In one corner we have Qu Biologics (Canada) that is developing AIEC vaccine and in another corner we have Hermon-Taylor (UK) that is developing a way to test if you have MAP and also produce a MAP vaccines. Both are in human trials and both require Funding. So basically in a few years we should have 2 ways to tackle IBD (UC or CD). This is great news.

Where I can't seem to connect the dots is why do we need to raise funds ? If the initial tests are promising, how come there is are no organization that are giving money ? These two entities are not asking money to find a cure, these two entities believe they found a cure and just want to do human trials, they must already have compelling evidences that it works. It should be very easy for these two entities to get funding at this stage.

I went on the web site http://www.crohnsandcolitis.org.uk but there is just 1 pdf article that talks about MAP. If you look at the annual financial, in 2012 they seem to have raised 3.6M GBP. After reading the annual report, just small amount was giving to research and most of it invested in high interest deposits with some banks.

I don't understand how these 2 vaccines need to raise money if they already seem to have something that will most likely work ? What am I missing here ?

I would like that someone which has knowledge in this field explains me what am I missing ? I can't seem to connect the dots here and I don't know who to ask the question...

Thank you

Connecthedots


Reference:
- MAP ( http://www.crohnsforum.com/wiki/MAP )
- AIEC ( http://www.crohnsforum.com/wiki/AIEC)
- Qu biologics ( http://www.qubiologics.com/)
- MAP Vaccine (http://crohnsmapvaccine.com/vaccine/ )
- MAP Vaccine Funding (https://www.justgiving.com/Run-For-Crohns-MEN3936)
- MAP Benefits / Funding in Minnesota (http://www.crohnsvaccinebenefit.com/)

-Crohnsandcolitis Foundation in UK ( http://www.crohnsandcolitis.org.uk/...ns-and-annual-reports/annual-reports-accounts )
Click to expand...
I agree 100% - my thought process is - well if there are various factors causing the inflammation, and two of which are MAP and AEIC (if they were such a fad, the theory in my opinion would have died down by now, instead of persisting for so long - if they are sure it isn't the cause, then they could have shown it - in the meantime, its still a possibility). If they can create a vaccine for these - these even if someone is has immune susceptibility, I bet 100%, people would rather have those pathogens removed from their bodies, and THEN limit their diet to avoid reinfection, rather than have that affection and limit their diet and deal with. Maybe it will resolve some of the symptoms, and not all - but some is better than nothing for many people suffering. I think for medicine - especially my husband's GI, they have to abide by the current standard of care, meaning approved practices and procedures. Unless they are a researcher or are interested for some other purpose, I don't think all GI's will actively look or push for this until it is proven. As a result, since it is the standard of care to deal with the symptoms only, then most pharmaceuticals and other investors would likely put their money in areas which are currently being utilized as treatment methods. I don't think its a big conspiracy like a lot of people say, but i do believe that momentum will pick up and if it proves beneficial, it will work. This has been seen in the past and people need to realize that it was just in the last 20 years or so that enough technology could has been developed to work on these vaccines and the idea behind them, like for MAP - everyone may be suspicious, but technology to culture and work on T-cell vaccines is recent, so I really believe it is a matter of time. :)
 
wildbill_52280

wildbill_52280

Maybe they are scams to take money from people who don't understand science or biology, and that's why nobody is really giving them money. ill have to check them out closer but QU biologics page says something like we are different we don't "suppress" the "immune system" we "enhance it" or something like that. Immune system is a very vague term enhancing or supressing it I'm not sure that's a very clear there may be some issues with logical reasoning here and who really cares that much how it works the question is DOES it work and how do you prove it. Don't forget about Fecal Microbiota Transplants they have put IBD in remission and may have cured some cases.
 
S

Scared1

Hi Wildbill,
I think the enhancing part means they are trying to get the immune system to work better by atracking these inert e. Coli strands they have and by today so, clearing out the aeic version that is considered an opportunistic infection for crohnies. So when comparing this method to the current protocol which is to suppress the immune system from doing its job, then they can say they are trying to make it more active. And I agree about the fecal transplanta - I thin if anything, these vaccines would be utilized to complement the fecal transplants.
 
JMC

JMC

wildbill_52280 said:
Maybe they are scams to take money from people who don't understand science or biology, and that's why nobody is really giving them money.
Click to expand...
Please present your evidence or withdraw this comment. This sort of mud slinging without any evidence to back it up undermines the hard work of genuine efforts to find a cure for Crohn's.

We know you believe in FMT, can you please stop thread cr*pping anything which is not FMT.
 
JMC

JMC

I can only answer about the Crohn's MAP Vaccine, where I know all of the details and have personally met the people involved. The biggest problem is that research funding does not work in the way that you and most people believe and there is far less money available to investigate cures than you would believe. IBD research is very badly funded.

ConnectheDots said:
Where I can't seem to connect the dots is why do we need to raise funds?
Click to expand...
You are not being asked to raise money for the Crohn's MAP Vaccine, it is owned by HAV Vaccines Ltd and the manufacture and trial of the vaccine is being funded by investors.

Details of the company is here:
http://www.hav-vaccines.com/

A list of all of the investors and their share holding is here:
https://companycheck.co.uk/company/06962730/HAV-VACCINES-LIMITED/group-structure

The Crohn's MAP Vaccine website was set up to raise awareness that a potential cure existed and needed to be trialled and that funds needed to be raised to complete the MAP Test. The research to do this is being conducted at Kings College London and having a test for MAP is essential to prove that a vaccine eliminating MAP can cure Crohn's. Why are people being asked to donate? Because the total funding available for IBD research, globally, is tiny and the funding that is available comes with string attached (i.e. requires a share of the IP to be signed away).

ConnectheDots said:
If the initial tests are promising, how come there is are no organization that are giving money?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, your view of how this should work, although reasonable, is not how things work in reality. The interest of big pharma companies only starts once a cure has made it through Stage I and Stage II trials. How do you get through Stage I and II? By any means possible. Are big pharma companies interested in cures? No, they are interested in anything that can generate large profits.

ConnectheDots said:
These two entities are not asking money to find a cure, these two entities believe they found a cure and just want to do human trials, they must already have compelling evidences that it works. It should be very easy for these two entities to get funding at this stage.
Click to expand...
There is a big difference between having a potential cure and proving it is a cure. The Crohn's MAP Vaccine is a potential cure. It has not yet actually cured a Crohn's patient. The theoretical basis is sound, but is has not been demonstrated in practice.
 
wildbill_52280

wildbill_52280

JMC said:
Please present your evidence or withdraw this comment. This sort of mud slinging without any evidence to back it up undermines the hard work of genuine efforts to find a cure for Crohn's.

We know you believe in FMT, can you please stop thread cr*pping anything which is not FMT.
Click to expand...
Sorry didn't mean any offense, I haven't looked into these that much so i just don't know that much and ill admit that. I'm perfectly open to the possibility these treatments could be beneficial and I haven't seen any strong evidence that these are scams yet. I'm just freely speaking my unrefined thoughts at the moment, ill admit I could think a little more independently and quietly so I will not offend anyone until my thoughts are more refined.
 
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