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Fecal Transplants

Cat-a-Tonic

Super Moderator
I saw this article and just had to share.

http://www.slate.com/id/2282768/pagenum/all/#p2

The Enema of Your Enemy is Your Friend
Fecal transplants could be a cheap and effective treatment for gastrointestinal disorders.
By Emily P. Walker
Posted Thursday, Jan. 27, 2011, at 4:26 PM ET

One day in 2008, Ruth, a Long Island teacher, walked into her doctor's office with a container of a relative's feces, lay down, and had her doctor pump the stool inside her. Ruth had been suffering for nearly two years with an intestinal infection called Clostridium difficile, which caused her to suffer from excruciating diarrhea. She had lost 20 pounds. Her hair was falling out. Friends asked if she had cancer.

Then she met Lawrence Brandt, a gastroenterologist in the Bronx who believed he had developed a procedure to cure people of recurrent c. diff infections: fecal transplant. Brandt has been inserting feces into his patients for a decade now and claims to be solving their problems nearly 100 percent of the time. If his method really works—and he's not the only doctor who believes that it does—then we may have found a viable, if weird, solution to a serious problem. C. diff infects 250,000 Americans each year and killed more than 20,000 from 1999 to 2004. (Researchers estimate that 13 out of every 1,000 patients admitted to a hospital will pick up the bug.) Antibiotics will always be the first response to such infections, but when those fail, a fecal transplant could be the next step. For Ruth, at least, the procedure was a godsend. "I'm cured," she said. "Period. End of story. Cured."

Here's the basic idea. People suffering from the hardy C. diff bacteria are generally prescribed a powerful antibiotic. Problem is, the drugs don't just kill the invaders; they also wipe out much of the beneficial bacteria in the gut. With these "good" microorganisms out of the way, any C. diff stragglers have a much easier time regrouping for a second bout of illness. If there were some way to respawn the beneficial bacteria in the intestines, such re-infections could be warded off. Some people, like Ruth, turn to expensive probiotic supplements. (At one point she was spending $350 on them every week.) But in certain cases, a patient who has lost nearly all of her good bacteria will find it nearly impossible to get them back. A fecal transplant seems to work as a sort of mega-probiotic, allowing doctors to repopulate a patient's intestines with the appropriate microorganisms by placing a robust sample directly into her gut.

Doctors recommend that the fecal donor be someone close to the patient—a family member, perhaps, or a spouse. Scientists reason that when people live in close quarters, they are exposed to similar bacteria—good and bad—and are likely to have had a similar set of bacteria living in their guts before anyone got sick.

The donor takes a stool softener the night before and then gives a full morning bowel movement to the recipient, who takes it to a doctor for screening. It's important to make sure that the sample doesn't contain any parasites or other pathogens, such as hepatitis, salmonella, or HIV. Once the transplant material has been cleared, the doctor mixes it with saline to make about a pint of liquid with the consistency of a milkshake. This is pumped into the patient's colon using a colonoscope or endoscope, or siphoned into the stomach via a nasogastric tube. (The latter method is considered more dangerous, since there's a chance feces will end up in the lungs. Colonoscopies carry their own risk of bowel perforation.)

And then there's the do-it-yourself crowd. All you need is a bottle of saline, a 2-quart enema bag, and one standard kitchen blender. Mike Silverman, a University of Toronto physician who wrote up a guide to homespun fecal transplants for the journal Clinical Gastroenterology and Hepatology, says it's entirely safe to do the procedure this way, provided that a doctor gets involved at some point to screen the donor sample. He felt he needed to draw up the instructions because administrators at his hospital wouldn't allow their doctors to perform a procedure that hasn't been validated in a large, peer-reviewed study.

It's true there's been no major clinical trial of fecal transplants, but the procedure appears in the medical literature at least as far back as 1958. That's when a Denver-based surgeon named Ben Eiseman performed four of the procedures to rid patients of a form of colitis thought to be caused by C. diff. His plan was to administer "normal feces into the colon of patients with the disease," so as to "re-establish the balance of nature." Three of his four patients were near death before the fecal enema. After, they recovered. This small experiment suggested a "simple yet rational therapeutic method," Eiseman and his colleagues wrote, that deserved careful evaluation.

Now we're beginning to see some more extensive studies. Mark Mellow, a gastroenterologist at INTEGRIS Health in Oklahoma City, recently presented a paper showing that 15 out of 16 C. diff patients whom he'd provided with a fecal transplant remained disease-free after five months. Several other papers presented at the meeting showed similar positive effects, and in every case, symptoms disappeared almost immediately after the transplant.

Still, the evidence supporting fecal transplant comprises just about 20 published case reports involving about 200 patients. Until a large-scale, randomized trial is published in a big-name medical journal, most doctors will likely follow the example of the University of Toronto and hold off on performing the transplant. Indeed, relatively few gastroenterologists have even tried it. Colleen Kelly, a gastroenterologist at Women & Infants Hospital of Rhode Island, surveyed 72 gastroenterologists at a recent international medical meeting and found that only seven had performed the procedure. Nearly half said they'd be willing to perform a transplant on a sick patient, but the rest said they weren't ready yet. "I really think in another couple of years, it's going to be something that everyone's doing," said Kelly, who has performed the operation 22 times herself.

Infectious-disease experts are a little more tempered in their enthusiasm. According to Vincent Young of the University of Michigan, the data look promising but he wouldn't perform a fecal transplant himself because there are too many unknowns about what bad things might be lurking in a stool sample. William Schaffner, president of the National Foundation for Infectious Diseases, warned that the procedure is still in its early days and not yet ready for prime time. (The American College of Gastroenterology, for its part, has no official position on fecal transplants.)

But the true believers have even bigger plans. They hope fecal transplants might be used to treat other gut-related conditions, such as ulcerative colitis and even obesity. Some very overweight people, for example, are thought to have more of a certain type of bacteria in their intestines, which causes them extract extra calories from complex carbohydrates. With this in mind, researchers found that fat mice would lose weight if transplanted with feces from thin ones. Later, a team of Dutch researchers tried the same approach in humans: No one lost weight, but the fecal recipients did show a significant improvement in their ability to regulate insulin. (That study is under review and should be published in the next few months.)

For all its promise, it's unlikely fecal transplants will take off any time soon. Not because patients are grossed out by the procedure—in fact, doctors say that long-standing sufferers from C. diff are eager to have it done—but because there's so little funding for large-scale clinical trials. Drug or medical-device companies usually foot the bill for such research, but in the case of a natural, patent-free treatment like this, no company stands to turn a major profit. If anything, fecal transplants would end up costing the pharmaceutical companies money: A single pill of vancomycin—one of two antibiotics used to treat C. diff—costs about $55, and the average dose is four pills daily over a two-week stretch. A glass of shit, on the other hand, costs very little. That doesn't mean we'll never get the much-needed data: Lawrence Brandt, the gastroenterologist in the Bronx, is applying for a grant with the National Institutes of Health for a small, double-blind, controlled study. He says he'll need about 40 patients, and he's hoping to get started right away.
What do you guys think? Would you ever try this? Has anyone here tried it, and if so, what were the results?
 
Hi Cat:

I am so desperate at this point to try to shift my Crohn's from severe to at least mild, that I would consider anything. I've been reading about fecal transplants for a while now and would most definitely consider it as an option. When I spoke to my GI about it over a year ago, he said that the science behind it was not secure enough for many GIs to be using it as a viable option. I know of a doctor in Calgary (which is about a two hour plane ride from where I live) who had been doing it and was trying to get in touch with him, but never heard back.

Recently, doctors from a local health authority near where I live were trying to push the health authority into allowing fecal transplants for those with CDiff who were not responding to antibiotic treatment. I am hopeful that these doctor's might be the ones who push other GIs into taking fecal transplants more seriously and consider doing it as a treatment option for patients with Crohn's.

At this point, I ain't got much to lose! My brother has already extolled the virtues of his BMs and seems to consider himself an ideal donor...based on our childhood and the amount of pleasurable time he spent in the bathroom, I don't doubt it!

Thanks for the article.
 
I saw this article and just had to share.

http://www.slate.com/id/2282768/pagenum/all/#p2



What do you guys think? Would you ever try this? Has anyone here tried it, and if so, what were the results?
I've read a number of articles on this & I think it's an excellent idea. I believe it was 1st tried in the late 1950's for C. Difficile. I've also thought of the "DIY" approach, and I would be very willing to give that a try, if I had a good source of material.

The main factor limiting the technique is that, unlike expensive antibiotics, there is no well-heeled business interest which stands to profit, so study $$$ and promotion have been low. Plus, I'm sure many would find it distasteful, though that's silly, IMO. Again, I think it's a terrific, completely natural approach which, assuming clean feces are used (containing no harmful microorganisms, only beneficial ones), would be low cost and have virtually no down side.
 
I would do it in a heartbeat if I thought I had the option. Even if it didn't work, the negative consequences of many of our other options don't seem to be as much of a concern. By this I mean there's no readily apparent down side.
 

ameslouise

Moderator
OMG. Am I the only one who thinks this is absolutely disgusting? I am nauseous right now even thinking about putting someone else's shit into my body. I would try a lot of alternative treatments, but I'm just don't know about this one.

I guess if someone said, "This will 100% put you into remission with zero side effects" I would be right there putting a ziploc bag under my husband's ass. But damn, it's still really gross. And I don't get grossed out easily at all!

- Amy
 
http://www.slate.com/id/2282768/

My favorite part of the article:
And then there's the do-it-yourself crowd. All you need is a bottle of saline, a 2-quart enema bag, and one standard kitchen blender. Mike Silverman, a University of Toronto physician who wrote up a guide to homespun fecal transplants for the journal Clinical Gastroenterology and Hepatology, says it's entirely safe to do the procedure this way, provided that a doctor gets involved at some point to screen the donor sample..
 
My brother has already extolled the virtues of his BMs and seems to consider himself an ideal donor...based on our childhood and the amount of pleasurable time he spent in the bathroom, I don't doubt it!
LOL, I busted out laughing at this.

I'll tell ya one thing, it'd be a great story to gross your kids and family out with if you ever have the procedure done!
 
\ shaking head about this one....I think it is worse than the intestinal worm treatment I heard about 10 years ago (google cd and heliminths). Or save your vom gag reflex and don't look it up. poo enemas sound too bizarre to be real.
Eppie
 
OMG. Am I the only one who thinks this is absolutely disgusting? I am nauseous right now even thinking about putting someone else's shit into my body. I would try a lot of alternative treatments, but I'm just don't know about this one.

I guess if someone said, "This will 100% put you into remission with zero side effects" I would be right there putting a ziploc bag under my husband's ass. But damn, it's still really gross. And I don't get grossed out easily at all!

- Amy
My thoughts exactly!
 
Lol! i wish I hadnt read this thread now - it's put me right off my breakfast. I don't think I could fact this without being knocked out for at least a week. But my symptoms are not as severe as many here and if it's going to work I can see why people would go for it. A very natural solution in a very unnatural sort of a way.
 

Astra

Moderator
Oh Dear God!
I'm sorry, but this is just so wrong!
What next? Drinking someone's vomit?
Puuurrrleeese!
 
I've read that this can be done during a scope. You would be out.

Come on folks, this forum talks about poop a lot to be grossed out by this procedure.
And what's worse? Somebody's recycled dinner from yesterday, or C. Difficile?

Bob's recycled dinner, please.
 
When I was at the doctor the last time and a few of us were in a room getting our iron infusions this lady I saw there before started talking. She said that she had an ostomy for a while and they were discussing with her getting the reversal of which she wants. The doctor told her since it has been so long that getting the good bacteria back in her intestines is necessary and the above mentioned would be a good therapy for her.

She made me laugh when she was describing the conversation with her doctor and her husband and herself in the room.....

The doctor told her that she would need someones fecal matter who lived in the house with her....she looked at her husband she said and his response was:

What I thought you said this morning you were not going to take any more of my Sh*t!!!
She had a lot of us laughing!! She did say she is willing to try anything to get that reversal and make it successful even if it meant having this done.
 
I'm pondering how this would work for crohn's. Since crohn's is your immune system fighting the good micro-organisms in your body wouldn't it do the same thing once the organisms from the donor's body are introduced, or does your immune system not have enough time to react to the micro-organisms before they've already done their beneficial work. Or do the white blood cells from the donor's fecal matter also play a beneficial part for crohn's patient. I guess these questions are why the trials are needed.

I'm sorry but it just doesn't seem very logical for use in crohn's patients. Although an invisible matter (dark matter) that holds the galaxies together is not very logical either, but scientists know for a fact that it does exist in some way or form.
 
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It looks to be for UC but not Crohn's. And clinically most effective in treating c-diff (in the published research).

I guess I've gotten quite intimate with fecal matter over the past year--it doesn't seem bad to me. Let the good poo teach the bad poo some manners.

The challenge, though, is not in the saying, but in the doing. I hope to keep you posted on this one.

From the 2003 Borody Abstract:

Treatment of ulcerative colitis using fecal bacteriotherapy.
Borody TJ, Warren EF, Leis S, Surace R, Ashman O.

Centre for Digestive Diseases, 144 Great North Rd, Five Dock NSW 2046, Australia. tborody@zip.com.au
Abstract
BACKGROUND: Although the etiology of idiopathic ulcerative colitis (UC) remains poorly understood, the intestinal flora is suspected to play an important role. Specific, consistent abnormalities in flora composition peculiar to UC have not yet been described, however Clostridium difficile colitis has been cured by the infusion of human fecal flora into the colon. This approach may also be applicable to the treatment of UC on the basis of restoration of flora imbalances.

GOAL: To observe the clinical, colonoscopic and histologic effects of human probiotic infusions (HPI) in 6 selected patients with UC.

CASE REPORTS: Six patients (3 men and 3 women aged 25-53 years) with UC for less than 5 years were treated with HPI. All patients had suffered severe, recurrent symptoms and UC had been confirmed on colonoscopy and histology. Fecal flora donors were healthy adults who were extensively screened for parasites and bacterial pathogens. Patients were prepared with antibiotics and oral polyethylene glycol lavage. Fecal suspensions were administered as retention enemas within 10 minutes of preparation and the process repeated daily for 5 days. By 1 week post-HPI some symptoms of UC had improved. Complete reversal of symptoms was achieved in all patients by 4 months post-HPI, by which time all other UC medications had been ceased. At 1 to 13 years post-HPI and without any UC medication, there was no clinical, colonoscopic, or histologic evidence of UC in any patient.

CONCLUSIONS: Colonic infusion of donor human intestinal flora can reverse UC in selected patients. These anecdotal results support the concept of abnormal bowel flora or even a specific, albeit unidentified, bacterial pathogen causing UC.
 
I don't know, if I was suffering from C. Diff on top of the Crohn's, I think I might do it. I have read several articles on this and in a gross way it really makes sense.
 

David

Co-Founder
Location
Naples, Florida
As far as I'm concerned, if they find a clinically proven way to reduce my pain without potential for serious side effects, they can shove whatever they want up there. Fecal matter, apple pie, small robots, cheese whiz, explosive devices; I don't care, I'm game. I've already had strangers' fingers, thumbs and a garden hose with a camera attached to it up there, so duct tape open my cheeks and let's go for it. I'll bring the tape and vanilla ice cream if it's pie.
 

Cat-a-Tonic

Super Moderator
David, too funny! Now all I can picture is a tiny robot carrying pie and cheese whiz. :D I'm totally with you, if that would make me feel better, I'm all for it. I've pretty much already had a robot go through me anyway, if you consider that the pill cam is kind of like a tiny robot.
 
Look, I know that poop is gross, but if it works why wouldn't anyone try this?? As long as the feces is disease free how are fecal transplants any stranger than blood transplants other than blood transfusions have been an integral part of medical treatment for some time now?
 
Patients With Bowel Disease Eager To Test "Fecal" Therapy

The first study of the social and ethical issues associated with a provocative approach to treatment for ulcerative colitis has found that the majority of potential patients are eager for what is now called "fecal microbiota transplantation" to become available, although many have concerns about donor selection, screening, and methods of delivery.

Bacterial aggregates derived from fecal matter have been used sporadically to treat gastrointestinal disease for more than 50 years. These were often last-ditch efforts aimed at restoring microbial balance for patients with raging intestinal infections. More recently, the approach has produced lasting remissions for a small number of patients with a common disease: ulcerative colitis.

"Once patients get past the yuck factor they find the concept appealing," said study author David Rubin, MD, associate professor of medicine at the University of Chicago. "They perceive it as 'natural,' similar to probiotics. Patients with severe inflammatory bowel disease tend to develop a high tolerance for therapies that others might consider unorthodox."

Fecal microbiota transplantation (FMT)-also known as fecal bacteriotherapy, among other names-is an effort to calm a troubled bowel by reintroducing the vast diversity of collaborative bowel inhabitants after the usual mix has been disturbed. More than 1,000 different strains of bacteria co-exist peacefully in the typical healthy bowel. But when the delicate balance is altered, by antibiotics or other causes, a few strains can become dominant, leading to severe diarrhea, inflammation and tissue damage.

The first FMT cases, dating back to 1958, were used to treat life-threatening infections caused by aggressive bacteria that had overwhelmed the bowel, driving out the competition. When antibiotics were unable to control the infection, physicians were able to restore balance by injecting the full range of gut bacteria. They did this by collecting fecal matter from a healthy donor and injecting it into the patient's colon.

In 2003, a team led by Australian physician Thomas Borody published a report on successful treatment of six patients with longstanding ulcerative colitis with this approach. "Complete reversal of UC was achieved in all 6 patients following the infusion of human fecal flora," the authors reported. "These 6 cases document for the first time the total disappearance of chronic UC without the need for maintenance treatment."

"This is a fascinating idea, and the early studies show great promise, but we found that no one had looked at the social issues surrounding fecal transplantation," said Rubin. "Before we offer this, we wanted to find out how patients understood the process and take a look at the ethical issues that could also be raised by this therapy."
Like an organ transplant, fecal microbiota transplantation begins with finding a donor, often a family member. The treatment team collects a fresh stool sample, at least 200 to 300 grams. The sample is mixed with salt water in a blender and filtered to remove particulate matter. It can be administered to the recipient through a colonoscope, as an enema, or-when the inflamed region is higher in the colon-through a naso-gastric tube.

Rubin and colleagues Stacy Kahn, MD, and Rita Gorawara-Bhat, PhD, organized six focus groups in 2009-2010 with patients or parents of children with ulcerative colitis to "explore the attitudes and concerns" raised by this approach. They published their findings in the June issue of the journal Inflammatory Bowel Disease.

They found that 21 out of 22 patients or parents of patients were interested in trying FMT for themselves or their child; most wished it were already available. They viewed the treatment as more 'natural' than using drugs to control the disease, and easier and safer than currently available therapies. Many compared it to probiotics, a popular alternative therapy among patients with colitis.

The major concerns were focused on how donors would be selected and screened. Patients wanted healthy donors, usually family members, and asked that even their diet and medications be considered. A donor who had eaten peanuts recently, for example could be hazardous for a recipient with peanut allergies.

Physicians recommend a workup similar to that of an organ donor, with careful screening for multiple pathogens, including HIV, hepatitis and other viruses, as well as various parasites and worms.

The "yuck" factor came up in the focus group discussions of bacterial delivery. Patients and parent were comfortable with the idea of a "spray" colonoscopy or delivery via enemas, but were disturbed by the idea of using a naso-gastric tube for the transfer of fecal bacteria, although this method has been used to treat Clostridium difficile infections.

"What our study ultimately tells us is that patients are not only tolerant of this therapy but are eager for it to become available," Rubin said. "A few have already tried this strategy at home, using 'protocols' they found on the internet and tools available at any drug store."

"We hope to begin offering FMT this fall," he said, "in a carefully controlled, clinical-trial setting."

"We are getting at least one phone call a week from patients asking about the treatment and when we are going to start treating patients," said co-author Stacy Kahn, MD, instructor of pediatrics at the University of Chicago.

There are many things we do not yet know about the risks and benefits of FMT, the authors agreed. The safety of such a treatment and broader implications of risk remain unconfirmed, so careful preparation and more study is necessary before this can be offered to patients with ulcerative colitis.

"Many patients do benefit from proven traditional therapies," Rubin said, "which should always be considered before experimental treatments, no matter how attractive they may sound."

The National Institutes of Health, the University of Chicago's Clinical and Translational Science Award, and the Gastrointestinal Research Foundation supported this study.

Source:
University of Chicago Medical Center
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/227303.php
 
If they could do this for Crohn's, I would do it in a heartbeat. It's a little gross, but totally worth it if it just helps for a few months.
 
It seems so simple to me. If you need the bacteria then a small amount of fecal matter could be used to grow more bacteria in some sort of solution and then inject that as an enema. Maybe a poopfusion is just cheaper and easier.
 
Ugh I'm on the boat about this one...it's incredibly disgusting and I would probably vomet if I had to do it BUT if I suffered from terrible bouts of C Diff maybe it'd be worth it...sucks that there is no possible cure for crohns but UC has a few options if not limited and gross options at that...Crohns and I just have to make nice...you think if I apologize he'll accept it and calm down? What if I gave him all my lunch money???
 
I don't know what to think.

All I know is that I'm laughing my ass off. Somewhere between blenders and robots w/ apple pie.

Thank you for the smile today <3
 
I would be interested in learning how a person with Crohn's reacts to this treatment. UC is a different animal altogether.

A friend of mine went into clinical trials for a treatment for Crohn's that involved large amounts of the "good bacteria"-like what you get in cultured food products but at a much higher controlled dose. He felt great initially but then developed a terrible infection, starting in the bowel and spreading to his bloodstream. He was hospitalized for two weeks for it.

The research doctors told him it's not just the nasty bacteria-c.diff, h.pylori, e.coli, etc that cause illness. Apparently even large amounts of good bacteria send a red flag to a Crohnnies' immune system. My friend had built antibodies to the new bacteria and because it was still being introduced it led to infection.

I take probiotics as well as eat large amounts of Greek yogurt and so far I haven't had c.diff return-even with taking high dose antibiotics, Methotrexate, and Remicade. Let's hope it keeps on working!:)
 
I had C. diff. quite a few years ago. I still remember how sick I was. I can't say I wouldn't do just about anything to get rid of it, but I do think the colonoscopy spray or the enema would be more appealing than the naso-gastric tube. YUCK!!

Can't they just grow that stuff, instead of having a fecal transplant. That is the part that is the most yuck.
 
Hey y'all, I'm trying this. It's day 4 today and all is well. I'm on the verge of having surgery and this is a last ditch effort to save my colon. What do I have to lose? So far it's going very well, and yes its gross. But blood, 6 fistulas,2 abcesses with lots of pain and suffering is much grosser and it never ends. People who say they would never try it probably arent suffering much.. So, here we go.. I have Crohns and am hoping it works. Im doing it every day for 10 days then I'll do it three times a week for a month and then twice a week for a couple months. I'll keep you updated how I'm doing. Bree
 

David

Co-Founder
Location
Naples, Florida
Hi Bree! Please do keep us updated! If you're comfortable giving additional information, who is doing this for you? Would you be open to sharing some of the methodology they're utilizing?

I pray it makes a positive difference for you.
 
My G.I. is doing a study on this. He has not talked to us about it because my son so far has responded to conventional treatment but my friend's son is enrolling in the study. His case has been refractory so far and they have exhausted treatment options. His dad will be the donor. I am keeping in contact with her about his condition and will let you guys know what happens. My G.I. is Dr. Kunde in Grand Rapids Michigan at Helen DeVos Children's hospital. He is doing this study in pediatric patients. I think there are some real breakthroughs coming for Crohn's glad you guys are here to share.

Tiffany
 

Terriernut

Moderator
Well, I'm alll FOR this!!!! I hope it works for you! Please do keep us updated.

After all, you have plenty to lose and alot to gain. If it works, fabulous!
 
Well, I'm on day five of transplants . Everything is going great. I had been on flagyl and cipro for 10 days then five more of Flagyl. It wasn't to prepare for this, it was because I was a total mess, I have 3 abcesses and several fistula that I know of. A huge absecess came up 4 days after starting the antibiotics. It has been getting bigger bleeding and very sore throughout taking the antibiotics. Lots of blood & ect. Been off antibiotics 2 weeks before starting transplant. Today I'm a LOT less sore, less blood, abcesses is smaller and less sore! I cried for a half hour. Just happiness... I feel like there's hope. Too soon to know for sure if this is working. I'll keep posting my progress. Please feel free to contact me. Bree
 
My boyfriend thinks I'm weird now I've just asked him to keep some of he's poo by for me :eek:/ If its anything like the red on white wine thing then I want to give it a go? Lol xx
 
Oh, Bree I'm so happy for you!! I hope it works wonders. Keep us in the loop because if it does work, my husband will be pooping into a ziplock bag soon! Hell, I tried everything else!
 
Best of luck, Bree, and do keep up posted. My doc just mentioned this yesterday (not that he has done it, but someone else has asked him to look into it). Can't wait to hear more!
 
This guy is one of my gastroenterologists, we fly up to Sydney to see him. He told us that they've just found that 98% (I think, more than they originally thought) of people with Ulcerative Colitis can be cured with long term infusions (They used to do it for a week then give up). I'm probably going through with this soon, it might be my only chance to do well in Year 12!

Some people find this treatment repulsive, but I don't, I'm in too much pain to really care or wait for the capsule to be developed.
 
Today I'll do number 7 infusion this morning. Last night had cramping and more gas, nothing horrible . but things are happening. Bacteria battles. I'm planning on doing this ten days, then every other day for quite a while. I sure want to keep my bad bacteria from coming back. My biggest abcesses is going away. It's not painful now and is shrinking. I'm still seeing a fair amount of blood. It's very itchy down there, but no pain. I think it's going to be several weeks before there is real progress. The new bacteria has to repopulate. I feel like this is working, but I have no idea how long it's going to take. I think even when everything seems all well I'm still going to do it a few times a week. Bree
 
Bree, thank you so much for posting updates on this! To me, the ick factor is really outweighed by the promise of long-term remission or even a cure. Please keep updating and I will keep my fingers crossed for you!
 
Location
Ohio
Thanks for sharing! I have heard ALOT about this procedure, especially from having c-diff on and off for 3 years prior to being diagnosed with Crohns, I've heard ALOT about this procedure and know lots of info on it. I have known many people who have had this procedure and it was a life saving thing! Good luck!
 
Today is the 10th day. I've been doing the transplant every day. Everything is still great. My bleeding has completely stopped!! Abcesses is still getting smaller. Not sore anymore. I couldn't sit down before. I'm Still having a little pain in the rectal area. That was the worst area and will probably be the last to clear up. Having some gas. Nothing painful. Lots of Stomach noises. My energy level is way up! I went places Saturday and Sunday and didn't get tired out untill later in the day. I haven't felt this good in 6 months! I think this is really working. In a few weeks if everything heals up I'll know for sure. Bree
 

Ian

Location
London, UK
Great news Bree, hope it continues this way for you! Seeing the abcess shrink must be a great visual for your for monitoring your progress - kinda proves it's not just a placebo effect you're experiening! Keep us posted :).
 
i would totally do this. and it really makes sense, at least in my case. mine started only in my mouth during a round of antibiotics. then i started taking craploads of probiotics to counteract the antibiotics, and i think between the 2 it completely messed me up. i think the antibiotics wiped out all the good, and my gut just looked at the probiotics as "foreign". seems like if i could just get some normal repopulation down there it would probably do me some good. can't wait to hear about bree's(?) progress.
 
Well, I'm still doing great!! One giant infected abcess is nearly gone. It's pea sized now! There's another one that was really infected with new fistula in rectal area and its getting smaller and much less painful. Blood is much less. The main difference i notice is how good I feel! I'm going to keep this up untill everything is healed. Then I'm going to do it 2 or 3 times a week. Not real sure how long I'll do it. I figure that the crohns is probably so deep in those fistulas and abcesses. It may take the good bacteria a while to get in there. Anyway, this is better than the alternative. I really feel my health returning again!!! Bree
 
Bree, are you doing this on your own or is your doctor doing the transplants? Who is the donor? Glad you are feeling better!

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk
 
Okay, I'm so on board with this! I must find a local doctor that will do this. My husband will actually get a kick out of me asking for some of his s*#t!
 
I'm doing this totally on my own. My hubby of 30 years is the donor. It's a really good idea to get your potential doner tested for hepatitis c and other things. Tell your doctor your going to do this and he can help you with the tests. This is really dangerous like getting a blood transfusion. If there's something latent they have, you will have it too. My doner I've been married to 35 years so I'm pretty sure we have all the same diseases now. Anyway, with all that said, i use the larger size fleet enema kit , I pour out the laxative contents and make my own saline. It's One quart water add one tablespoon salt and boil 10 minutes. I make a few quarts at a time and put it in an empty water bottle. I also use distilled water for now. I warm up the water I use so it's a little warm. Cold would cause cramps. After the procedure I lay still for I full hour, I do this every day at 11 AM. There's no way I could afford to get this done by a doctor every day. Although doing some of these by way of a colonoscope would work best. I am desperate right now and so far it's paying off. Too soon to know for sure what the outcome will be. I'm cautious about getting overly optimistic. I think the way things are going, I'll be healed up in two weeks! Please message me if you want. Bree
 
Bree, I am so hopeful for you! No, I agree having a doctor do this everyday would be foolishly expensive. Like you, I have been married for many years (27). Yeah, Joe and I would have all the same disease by now also!

I am going to speak with my doctor. I figure I've tried just about everything else short of surgery. I will message you to get specifics (you don't have to answer, I know it's personal) after I speak with my doc. I guess I need to ask my hubby nicely to participate first though!
 
I told my husband he's helping to maybe cure me. Hes so incredibly healthy. I hope I can get some of that health for myself. Hey another thing I forgot to mention. Don't drink city water. Buy spring water. You won't want chlorine killing off any good bacteria your growing. Please message me any time. Nothing's too personal. Maybe we can help each other and maybe even get more doctors to take notice if this works. Bree
 
Ok, been well over a month now. Down to every other day right now I'm doing Fantastic!! Abcesses healed. They itched like crazy for a while. Now the sore lumps are completely healed! No pain whatsoever. Energy is back!!! I'm not even thinking about a colostomy now! This needs to be researched! I was a total mess and have the MRI to prove it. I'm so hopeful about this!!!! Bree
 

David

Co-Founder
Location
Naples, Florida
WOW! That's absolutely amazing. I'm so happy for you :)

Do you know specifically where your Crohn's is located? Is it just in the colon or do you have disease activity in the ileum/terminal ileum as well?

Have you been back to a doctor recently or plan to go to one soon for a checkup and to see what they think?
 

Terriernut

Moderator
:dance:
I hope you do plan on being checked out again as David says. Personally, I'd like to see their faces if you can present them with a crohns free (or as close as possible) colonoscopy.
 
When I was first diagnosed with Crohns it was in the Ileum also. It was all the way in my mouth! When I flare it goes everywhere. It was much worse in the lower bowel area. Ive had fissures, abcesses, and have had fistulas for years. Had a failed surgery. I don't know why my doctor thought fixing my rect/vag fistula was a good idea. It came right back. I'm going back to my doctor for a colonoscopy soon. Probably in a few weeks. Of coarse I'm dreading that prep!! I wanted to get as well as possible before I go. He's going to be Amazed! Bree
 
Hi Bree,
So glad your doing so well with this treatment.
I saw an article this week on the subject and thought I'd see if anyone on here had tried it and BAM! there you are. :)
I myself have crohns and suffer from bleeding everyday, sometimes really badly.
Im wondering...what kind of diet have you been on while doing this?

Thanks
Steve
 
I am a little stupefied. Can't decide if this is a brilliant, natural new treatment option, or the grossest thing I have ever imagined. And I have seen lots of gross in my life.
Got to thank everyone who posted on this thread initially; I haven't laughed so hard in weeks!!! Literally laughed so loud my kids wondered what was wrong with me. (well, my teenagers always wonder that anyway).
 
Yes, it is the grossest thing. LOL!! I have to agree! I have a system worked out where it's not bad at all. It wasn't perfect at first. It was trial and error. A little messy... But this disease is pretty messy too! So the cure might be messy. And I look at it as "real" probiotics. I've been dealing with other worst issues for years. Most of you know how much suffering is involved. But this is healing me up! Im about 75% healed now. Still have a very small lump that was a huge abcesses, the other one is completely gone! . Draining has stopped. It's Awesome! I wake up every day feeling great, with so much energy! I've started walking on the treadmill every day again! I just want to see about joining a study or something really useful. Instead of just helping myself. Bree
 
I'm not really on any special diet. Im not eating any junk food. I'm juicing organic vegetables like carrots & kale, beets. Tastes awful to me but it's really healthy. I'm steaming vegetables. Not drinking anything but spring water. I think that's important if your trying to rebuild your good bacteria not to drink Chlorinated water. Bree
 
Inspiring stuff Bree, really glad you're taking to it well.
Good thinking re the water. Think I'll buy spring water asap.
I dont suppose you have/will be posting about the process in full?
I'd love to know every step you've taken as you seem to have started in a similar position to what Im in now.

Steve
 
The doctor told her that she would need someones fecal matter who lived in the house with her....she looked at her husband she said and his response was:

What I thought you said this morning you were not going to take any more of my Sh*t!!!
She had a lot of us laughing!! She did say she is willing to try anything to get that reversal and make it successful even if it meant having this done.
that made my day!
 

Cat-a-Tonic

Super Moderator
I just had to share this - one of the local hospitals in my city just started offering fecal transplants! Here's the article:

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...cle_14ff0ae4-b320-11e1-b725-001a4bcf887a.html

There are 3 hospitals here, and unfortunately this is one that isn't covered by my insurance, but nonetheless it's still exciting stuff that it's happening locally. I haven't had c diff myself (knock on wood) but from this article, it sounds like this is a really promising c diff treatment.
 

kiny

Well-known member
The thing I don't quite understand about these methods is that in essence, doing antibiotics which tends to kill off a whole bunch of bacteria, both good and bad, and then adding probiotics, should essentially provide something similar to this. Maybe this method is easier, faster, cheaper? Not sure, but this looks a lot like what doctors have been doing for a while, you give a patient antibiotics which tends to disrupt the gut flora (some antibiotics do this better than others, augmentin does this very well for example) and then you use probiotics right after.
 
Location
Ohio
The thing I don't quite understand about these methods is that in essence, doing antibiotics which tends to kill off a whole bunch of bacteria, both good and bad, and then adding probiotics, should essentially provide something similar to this. Maybe this method is easier, faster, cheaper? Not sure, but this looks a lot like what doctors have been doing for a while, you give a patient antibiotics which tends to disrupt the gut flora (some antibiotics do this better than others, augmentin does this very well for example) and then you use probiotics right after.
Kiny, I see what you're saying. For some, the probiotics isn't enough. I've had c-diff on and off for three years, and I'm actually considering the fecal transplant myself because some studies have shown it has a greater benefit to those whose bacteria gets completely wiped out over and over. This does sound gross, but when someone is desperate they'll do it. I got my c-diff from Amoxcillin, never ever again do I want to take antibiotics!!! :hallo3:
 
I should clarify that I don't have Crohns, but my son (and brother in law and nephew) does.

I followed this thread and am anxious to try fmt, but no one has posted for a while and would really like to know how Bustersmom is doing and if anyone else has tried FMT for Crohns.
 
but it could be beneficial for UC


Researchers Find Fecal Microbiota Transplantation Effective For Treatment of IBD

With the growing success of fecal transplantation for C. difficile, researchers have started to explore the effectiveness of this procedure for other serious conditions, such as Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD). A second study, "Reversal of Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD) with Recurrent Fecal Microbiota Transplants (FMT)," reports successful treatment of severe mixed IBD using recurrent fecal microbiota transplants in three patient cases.

In Case 1, a 19-year old female with an 11-year history of severe IBD and who presented with worsening symptoms including bloody diarrhea and inflamed, ulcerated mucosa , and was considering a colectomy, experienced symptom improvement within several days after receiving FMT. She underwent FMT initially via colonoscopy in July 2009 then by seven daily rectal FMT and 26 weekly FMT's. Follow-up colonoscopy revealed no gross inflammation or edema, with the patient remaining clinically well.

In Case 2, a 23- year old male with a five-year history of steroid and anti-TNFα refractory ulcerative colitis presented with bloody diarrhea more than 20 times per day, anal fissures, severe abdominal pain and joint pain. Pre-FMT colonoscopy - showed severe disease of the left colon with marked cecal inflammation. He underwent daily rectal FMT for the first month, followed by infusions of lessening frequency until he reached 1 FMT/6 weeks. He reported resolution of bleeding 1-2 weeks post-FMT, and formed stool at 1 month post-FMT, resumed work, study activities and regained weight. Colonoscopy at one year showed no histological inflammation but occasional pseudopolyps in the cecum and ascending colon.

In Case 3, a 57-year old female with a nine- year history of 5-ASA antibiotics, probiotics and immunosuppressant refractory ulcerative proctitis in spite of treatment. After training in our clinic, she performed 69, initially daily, then weekly rectal FMT with virtually immediate resolution of diarrhea, bleeding and mucus. Follow-up colonoscopy showed no visible or histological inflammation and she has remained off all therapy for the last four years.

FMT may act as an antagonist to etiological infective agent(s) and aid in re-establishing depleted bacterial species, thereby reversing IBD, according to researchers from the Centre for Digestive Diseases in Australia.

Commenting on the cases of FMT in IBD, lead researcher Thomas Borody, MD, PhD, FACG, said, "the rapid response of FMT and lack of adverse effects make FMT a viable option for treatment-refractory patients and is certainly an added option for those facing colectomy."


http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/236885.php
 
Patients With Bowel Disease Eager To Test "Fecal" Therapy

The first study of the social and ethical issues associated with a provocative approach to treatment for ulcerative colitis has found that the majority of potential patients are eager for what is now called "fecal microbiota transplantation" to become available, although many have concerns about donor selection, screening, and methods of delivery.

Bacterial aggregates derived from fecal matter have been used sporadically to treat gastrointestinal disease for more than 50 years. These were often last-ditch efforts aimed at restoring microbial balance for patients with raging intestinal infections. More recently, the approach has produced lasting remissions for a small number of patients with a common disease: ulcerative colitis.

"Once patients get past the yuck factor they find the concept appealing," said study author David Rubin, MD, associate professor of medicine at the University of Chicago. "They perceive it as 'natural,' similar to probiotics. Patients with severe inflammatory bowel disease tend to develop a high tolerance for therapies that others might consider unorthodox."

Fecal microbiota transplantation (FMT)-also known as fecal bacteriotherapy, among other names-is an effort to calm a troubled bowel by reintroducing the vast diversity of collaborative bowel inhabitants after the usual mix has been disturbed. More than 1,000 different strains of bacteria co-exist peacefully in the typical healthy bowel. But when the delicate balance is altered, by antibiotics or other causes, a few strains can become dominant, leading to severe diarrhea, inflammation and tissue damage.

The first FMT cases, dating back to 1958, were used to treat life-threatening infections caused by aggressive bacteria that had overwhelmed the bowel, driving out the competition. When antibiotics were unable to control the infection, physicians were able to restore balance by injecting the full range of gut bacteria. They did this by collecting fecal matter from a healthy donor and injecting it into the patient's colon.

In 2003, a team led by Australian physician Thomas Borody published a report on successful treatment of six patients with longstanding ulcerative colitis with this approach. "Complete reversal of UC was achieved in all 6 patients following the infusion of human fecal flora," the authors reported. "These 6 cases document for the first time the total disappearance of chronic UC without the need for maintenance treatment."

"This is a fascinating idea, and the early studies show great promise, but we found that no one had looked at the social issues surrounding fecal transplantation," said Rubin. "Before we offer this, we wanted to find out how patients understood the process and take a look at the ethical issues that could also be raised by this therapy."

Like an organ transplant, fecal microbiota transplantation begins with finding a donor, often a family member. The treatment team collects a fresh stool sample, at least 200 to 300 grams. The sample is mixed with salt water in a blender and filtered to remove particulate matter. It can be administered to the recipient through a colonoscope, as an enema, or-when the inflamed region is higher in the colon-through a naso-gastric tube.

Rubin and colleagues Stacy Kahn, MD, and Rita Gorawara-Bhat, PhD, organized six focus groups in 2009-2010 with patients or parents of children with ulcerative colitis to "explore the attitudes and concerns" raised by this approach. They published their findings in the June issue of the journal Inflammatory Bowel Disease.

They found that 21 out of 22 patients or parents of patients were interested in trying FMT for themselves or their child; most wished it were already available. They viewed the treatment as more 'natural' than using drugs to control the disease, and easier and safer than currently available therapies. Many compared it to probiotics, a popular alternative therapy among patients with colitis.

The major concerns were focused on how donors would be selected and screened. Patients wanted healthy donors, usually family members, and asked that even their diet and medications be considered. A donor who had eaten peanuts recently, for example could be hazardous for a recipient with peanut allergies.

Physicians recommend a workup similar to that of an organ donor, with careful screening for multiple pathogens, including HIV, hepatitis and other viruses, as well as various parasites and worms.

The "yuck" factor came up in the focus group discussions of bacterial delivery. Patients and parent were comfortable with the idea of a "spray" colonoscopy or delivery via enemas, but were disturbed by the idea of using a naso-gastric tube for the transfer of fecal bacteria, although this method has been used to treat Clostridium difficile infections.

"What our study ultimately tells us is that patients are not only tolerant of this therapy but are eager for it to become available," Rubin said. "A few have already tried this strategy at home, using 'protocols' they found on the internet and tools available at any drug store."

"We hope to begin offering FMT this fall," he said, "in a carefully controlled, clinical-trial setting."

"We are getting at least one phone call a week from patients asking about the treatment and when we are going to start treating patients," said co-author Stacy Kahn, MD, instructor of pediatrics at the University of Chicago.

There are many things we do not yet know about the risks and benefits of FMT, the authors agreed. The safety of such a treatment and broader implications of risk remain unconfirmed, so careful preparation and more study is necessary before this can be offered to patients with ulcerative colitis.

"Many patients do benefit from proven traditional therapies," Rubin said, "which should always be considered before experimental treatments, no matter how attractive they may sound."

The National Institutes of Health, the University of Chicago's Clinical and Translational Science Award, and the Gastrointestinal Research Foundation supported this study.

Source:
University of Chicago Medical Center
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/227303.php
 
Hi everyone! As some of you know from my old posts I've been doing the transplants quite a while. I do have crohns. And it DOES work! Between the transplants and LDN I'm doing fantastic. Im going to write more about this later.
 
Hi everyone! As some of you know from my old posts I've been doing the transplants quite a while. I do have crohns. And it DOES work! Between the transplants and LDN I'm doing fantastic. Im going to write more about this later.
according to your posts, you have been doing this for about 6 months now, going on 7. In the most recent experiment done by borody on mixed ibd cases
one patient was reported to have done weekly enemas for about six months.
how long do you think you have to do this before the results will stick?


http://www.cdd.com.au/pdf/publicati...American College of Gastroenterology p741.pdf
 
I think it depends on the donor. Generally, I think the father might be the best donor for his children because they usually get their biome from their mother, but half of their genes are from their father. The same might be true for a husband for a woman who has had children because her immune system might have made changes during pregnancy. The reverse could be true as well.

Since not everyone has the same biome, it could take multiple donors to find the right one. There are still too many unknowns. At least, except for the testing, it is inexpensive to try. If there were an on line registry it might help sort out what does or does not work, at least for familial relationships.
 
thanks for all the great posts. i've read about the transplants and UC - anybody have any personal experiences to share?
looking into this for a family member but want to know more, if it's as effective as it is with c. diff.
THANK YOU!!!
 

kiny

Well-known member
t
looking into this for a family member but want to know more, if it's as effective as it is with c. diff.
not at all, in c difficile it works, but it's easy in c difficile, all you need is a flora without c difficile

in crohn you for it to help you would a gut flora that is IL-10 biased where you would lower inflammation through it, and they know so little about gut flora still, many bacteria don't survive in the environment, they can't tolerate the environment we live in, expose them to air and they die, they have no clue whatsoever what bacteria are in the gut flora, that's why the human microbiome project exists, before they know what is exactly needed to stop the inflammatory cascade and before they know if commensals are even involved (which they don't), fecal transplants is like shooten a dart blindfolded

for c difficile it's different, all you need is a gut flora from someone without c difficile
 
If anyone is looking for a dr who does the procedure, I contacted Dr Shepard in Tampa FL and he is doing the procedure for many patients, C-diff, Crohn's and Colitis. I think he only does it via colonoscopy but am not 100% sure. This would matter more to Crohn's patients who would need the transplant to reach higher up. When I emailed him, he said you can either bring a donor or he can supply one.

http://tampaendocenter.com/physicians/r-david-shepard-md

My googling has also led me to GI Consultants in Reno Nevada. I never contacted them but it appears that they are just doing C Diff.

http://www.giconsultants.com/procedures/fecal-transplantation/

I myself am seeing Dr. Brandt in NY who is one of the pioneers together with Dr Borody. He is hard to get an appointment with because he is so in demand. I will be doing the procedure daily for 10 days via nasogastric tube for crohn's of the Jejunum and Ileum probably in early December. I will post to let the group know if its a success.

Based on my discussions with Dr Brandt, this has not been done extensively for Crohn's. He has treated 3 or 4 Crohn's patients though such patients had whats called Crohn's Colitis. It appears to be fair game as to whether this will work for Crohn's. My thinking is that Crohn's will need a more aggresive course of treatment which is why I wanted to set up treatment in this manner. The dr agreed but its still unchartered territory.
 
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