Is this Crohn's?

This is my first post and I apologize in advance for this being such a long one but need your opinion. For years I've been convinced I have IBS but but a lot of the symptoms I have are fairly similar to Crohn's so aat this point I'm not sure what it is. Here's my story:

I'm male, 51 years old, and was told about 18 years ago by a physician that I have IBS. In the beginning I went from being normal to being very, very sick with multiple bouts of diarrhea per day that none of the over the counter meds would help -- but was later quickly put into check after taking predisone. All of this seemed to have begun after taking an antibiotic. At first the doctor thought I had ulcerative colitis after she found inflamation during a sigmoidoscopy she performed and I was put on a IBD med for about a year which really did not do a thing. Then I had a colonoscopy at that time and it was determined I had IBS since the scope indicated no problems. Doctor said to increase my fiber intake such as taking Fibercon -- which I did and after a while things greatly improved. Later I was able to go off the Fibercon and seemed to be over the major intestinal problems I was having at the time -- for the most part. I still had many bouts of urgent diarrhea, bloating, bad gas usually after eating a large meal or foods with spice. Other foods such as peanuts, Coke, eating a lot of candy and/or chocolate, foods with teriakaki sauce on it, greasy foods, and various other foods will kick it off.

Well, for whatever reason, for the last 4 weeks I've been dealing with multiple bouts of diarrhea per day. For the first two weeks it was nothing but watery, explosive diarrhea several times per day blowing out yellowish particle material (sorry for the explicitness) that mostly floats in the water and stinks to high heaven. Then for the past week the diarrhea BMs have become less watery but still explosive with particle material that floats. When I have a BM there is usually a huge amount of gas/air that comes out as well. I have always been a daily gas passer some of them very foul. When the need to have a BM suddenly hits, I have to find a john fast. I do have abdominal pain in various places in the abdomen right now but sometimes that's relieved after passing gas or having a BM, but for the most part the gut pain is present but not to a very high degree. By the way, over the counter meds to not help and neither is the Fibercon.

I went to my GP doctor last week and he felt around and ordered a ultra sound of my abdomen which came out normal in terms of my gallbladder and liver. He was concerned it might be appendicitis but I'm pretty sure that's not it but it could be, I guess. After the tests were shown negative he's pretty much blown me off as it being IBS. Anyway, the diarrhea persists and a few days ago, when the need for a BM hit me, I did not make it to the toilet fast enough and literally messed my pants -- fortunately I was at home. Before that time as well as after there have been times where I've come close to not making it in time to the john. My symptoms are mainly:

- Explosive, foul-smelling, sometimes watery but always very loose diarrhea. The color was a yellowish color for the first two weeks now it's the same consistency explained above but it's more of a yellowish-brown color now. About a week ago I has 13 BMs in one day -- beat my old record of 7 about 16 years ago.

- Pain and bloating but the pain is not too noticeable most of the time but is felt when pressure is applied to the abdomen and sometimes noticeable when there is no pressure on the abdomen. There is no blood in my stools.

- General feeling of bloating but not all the time.

- Weight loss -- about 8 pounds in last 4weeks.

- Lately I usually have a massive diarrhea blow out right after having a meal as well as feeling sick but seems to get better after awhile after the BM.


I met with a GI doctor last Friday and he said that what's going right now is not IBS and he's not sure what it is until he gets the labs back -- blood work and stool sample.

What do you think? Does this sound like IBS or Crohn's or something else? By the way, I did have a colonoscopy about 6 months ago and it was normal. Is it possible to have a colonoscopy turn out to be normal and still have Crohn's?

Thanks for your help.

Hi Zeb and welcome,

Yes, you could have Crohn's or IBS as the symptoms you have are common for those conditions but only a diagnosis will confirm it. It is also common to have a raft of normal results and still have Crohn's. Unfortunately that is the frustration many members here have had or the members on here that are still awaiting a diagnosis are experiencing, so you are not alone there! I hope you get some answers when your other test results come back.

I'm glad you found us and I hope you stick around 'cause there's loads of great people hanging around here with knowledge and experience. Keep us posted on how things turn out.

Welcome aboard!

All the best,
Dusty

I hope you get a definite diagnosis soon. Welcome Zeb xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hi and welcome Zeb, did you have a firm dx for uc 18 yrs ago? I'm surprised you'd be prescribed pred and ibd meds w/o being diagnosed.

Were you in remission for the last 16 years? I assume you are no longer seeing the same GI that you did 18 yrs ago but you seem to have responded to something back then that got you through til now. Has your new GI mentioned your previous diagnosis? There's such a long gap in your history that it raises these questions in my mind. Just thinking "out loud"

I hope you get some firm answers soon. Stick around Zeb and good luck!!

Hi Zeb
and welcome

I can totally empathise! I had a dx of IBS for 15 years! and in all that time, I had inflammation, which causes scarring, which cause strictures, which cause narrowing and so on!!
Persist with your GI, ask for a sigmoidoscopy and an endoscopy too.
I'm gonna suggest a low residue diet for you, you can find this here, but basically it's white food, nothing coloured! it's white bread, white rice, chicken, turkey, potatoes, white fish, milk and white cheese, no fibre at all! no red meat neither! no veg. this diet gives your bowels a long rest, and can ease explosive D.
In the meantime, here's a link - a table of differences between IBD and IBS, for you to compare.
http://ibdcrohns.about.com/cs/ibs/a/diffibsibd.htm

good luck and we'll see you around
lotsa luv
Joan xxx

Joan is right on. They need to check you from the top side, endoscopy and take some biopsies. The D you described is pretty much what I get also. My little daughter proclaimed my farts as the worst smelling of the family the other day, lol! (as if I didn't know already)

Be persistent with the doctor and don't be shy to get second opinions. many folks struggle to get a diagnosis and still others have no problem. I really think it has a lot to do with your doctor. Mine ordered colonoscopy, endoscopy, blood work, stool samples and did biopsies of my large and small intestine after my initial visit to her, afterwards I had a barium CT scan of my small intestine to confirm crohn's. I got the diagnosis all in about 3 weeks. Like you I was told I had IBS for the 17 years prior. I'm so glad my doctor was smart/good enough not to hold back on the testing.

Good luck and welcome! p.s. it sounds like chron's to me btw

I have similar symptoms. My D isn't as bad as yours, tho, and I did periodically have slight blood on the toilet paper, but that was explained with internal hemmies the c-scope found. All my scopes (c-scope, pillcam, EGD) came back with no sign of IBD. I had a IBD Serology test (a blood test) come back postive for Crohns, but he couldn't find anything with any of the scopes. So I'm in IBS land for now. He keeps telling me, "You may develop Crohns down the line, but it's an impossible prediction."

I hope you find a reason for your symptoms. No one wants an incurable disease but at least then you know the enemy you're dealing with.

Mayflower537 said:

I have similar symptoms. My D isn't as bad as yours, tho, and I did periodically have slight blood on the toilet paper, but that was explained with internal hemmies the c-scope found. All my scopes (c-scope, pillcam, EGD) came back with no sign of IBD. I had a IBD Serology test (a blood test) come back postive for Crohns, but he couldn't find anything with any of the scopes. So I'm in IBS land for now. He keeps telling me, "You may develop Crohns down the line, but it's an impossible prediction."

I hope you find a reason for your symptoms. No one wants an incurable disease but at least then you know the enemy you're dealing with.

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Mayflower I'm curious if they did biopsies when they did the scopes?

Hey Zeb,
I am glad you found the forum. I was also diagnosed with IBS for many many years and given medication that was later recalled (caused heart attacks!). I hope you get some answers soon. If I have learned anything on here its that I am not alone in this and an overwhelming amount of people have been misdiagnosed, not diagnosed, told its in their head, poked and prodded with results coming back neg., etc, etc. Hang in and if something doesnt seem right to you - get another opinion. You know your body best!
Cheers,

Wendy

crohnicaly stinky said:

Mayflower I'm curious if they did biopsies when they did the scopes?

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Yes, nothing showed up with the C-scope except "multiple lymphoid nodules" in my colon, which no one seems to know about. i asked my doc about it, and he said the area where the small intestine meets large is one of high lymph activity. whatever that means.

then the "antral samples" pathology showed gastritis (mild, chronic) and "grade A esophagitis" which he saw with the scope. neither apparently crohn's related inflammation.

I can "identify" with nearly all of the above. I was diagnosed with UC when 17. Had treatments and hospitalisations over the years - but luckily, no surgeries. I have dealt with this as best I could - as we all do. A few months ago. after a particularly bad month - I went to the doctors. After a month of tests (very thorough this new doctor I have lol) Two colonoscopies came back clear. CAT scan too. I had two barium transits (drinking the stuff). The first one gave an "indication" of Crohns. The second confirmed it. (Ileum) It seems I was misdiagnosed all those years ago - the two conditions have so many similarities - although I don´t know how it wasn´t spotted before.
I am now 55 - and can finally put a name to what I have suffered since I was 17. Sounds stupid - but I now actually feel alot calmer about it all. I feel "justified" in all the whingeing and moaning. There actually IS something wrong with me.
I really hope you get a diagnosis soon. Just "knowing" is a relief in itself.

First of all, wow -- thank you for your warm reception. It sounds like there are a lot of great people on this forum.

Just an up-date, I still haven't heard back from the Dr. about all the lab work (blood tests and stool). He appears to be a good doctor. He did mention that he did not think this bout of D is not IBS in that I was having so many BMs per day but only the test results will tell -- maybe.

Things have somewhat settled down. I'm working on my 5th week and it seems like there has been marked improvement for the last week and a half. Here are my current symptoms:

- D has somewhat settled down to 2-3 bms per day instead of at least 4 or more (usually more) but they're still explosive and somewhat watery. But still every BM is D and when I got to go I have to run to the john.

- Barely noticeable pain that seems to move around to different places in the gut (one day on the left, one day on the right, one day in the middle) -- weird. When pressure is applied to the gut, I do feel pain.

- Fatigue has lessened.

- Bloating has lessened. Not a lot of gas is being expelled.

- Still under weight and no improvement -- lost somewhere around 10 pounds in last 4 weeks which is really unusual for me. I've gone from about 194 to 184.

- Sometimes I feel like I have little appetite to eat much on my dinner plate and some foods that I usually like pretty much turn me off right now -- like fried chicken and other fried foods. Fried foods can really set me off into a D tizzy.

- One thing that is new is that I usually feel sick for awhile after a BM. Not nausea but just a flu-ish like feeling that wipes me out and makes me feel crummy during this period. It doesn't last very long then I'm okay. A Tylenol makes me feel better.

I'm not sure what any of this means. Does it mean things are getting better? I wish I knew that the heck all of this is. Maybe it is IBS after all. We'll see what the test results reveal.

Dexky said:

Hi and welcome Zeb, did you have a firm dx for uc 18 yrs ago? I'm surprised you'd be prescribed pred and ibd meds w/o being diagnosed.

Were you in remission for the last 16 years? I assume you are no longer seeing the same GI that you did 18 yrs ago but you seem to have responded to something back then that got you through til now. Has your new GI mentioned your previous diagnosis? There's such a long gap in your history that it raises these questions in my mind. Just thinking "out loud"

I hope you get some firm answers soon. Stick around Zeb and good luck!!

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Firm diagnosis? I guess so. The first MD was a general practitioner. She did a sigmoidoscopy and found inflammation, diagnosed me with UC and put me on a med for IBD. After a few months things settled down -- especially after I took the presnisone. I still had at least 3 BMs per day that were always full of mucous. A year later I finally went to a gastro specialist and he said it was just IBS after he performed the colonoscopy at that time -- 17 years ago. He was pretty much apathetic about it all after the scope. He blew me off when I asked questions as to what all the inflammation was the previous year. He gave me no explanation and he walked away. Taking the fiber supplement really helped after that to somewhat get things back to normal. Then later on I realized I could get off the fiber supplement and I'd only have occasional bad D -- then all of this hit 5 weeks ago.

Hi Zeb and welcome. Your story is similar to mine - I am also undiagnosed (been sick for nearly a year with no answers), also affected by fried and spicy foods and chocolate (I have more d than you do, my "record" was over 30 times in one 24-hour period - I lost track somewhere around 30, but I know it was at least 30). I also have experienced some of the other things you mentioned like weight loss, fatigue, and abdominal pain that comes and goes.

I wish I knew what to tell you - I'll just say what others have told me. Don't stop fighting for a diagnosis, and don't settle for them telling you you've got IBS (and definitely don't settle for them telling you that you're depressed or it's all in your head!). If your current doctor can't figure things out, look into other doctors in your area. And of course feel free to vent or ask questions any time on this forum, everyone here has been so wonderful and supportive. Good luck, I hope we both have answers soon.

Oh, I forgot one more thing I wanted to mention. If you have been on prednisone and it worked, then you most likely do not have IBS. Awhile back I went to the doctor during a bad flare, and he asked me to try some IBS meds. I said that I wanted to try pred to see if it worked, and he agreed to try both. He said that if the pred didn't work, then I likely have IBS, and if the pred did work then there must be something there such as IBD for the pred to work on - it doesn't work if there's nothing for it to work on! The IBS meds didn't really work, but the pred worked wonderfully - my symptoms greatly eased and mostly went away, I felt wonderful and I had so much energy - and since it was just a "trial" of pred, I was only given 10 mg per day for 5 days, and at the end of the 5 days my symptoms came right back with a vengeance. So I highly doubt I have IBS since pred worked for me. Just wanted to mention that to you since you said pred worked for you too. You may want to ask your doctor about that the next time you talk to him/her. Again, good luck!

Cat-a-Tonic said:

Oh, I forgot one more thing I wanted to mention. If you have been on prednisone and it worked, then you most likely do not have IBS. Awhile back I went to the doctor during a bad flare, and he asked me to try some IBS meds. I said that I wanted to try pred to see if it worked, and he agreed to try both. He said that if the pred didn't work, then I likely have IBS, and if the pred did work then there must be something there such as IBD for the pred to work on - it doesn't work if there's nothing for it to work on! The IBS meds didn't really work, but the pred worked wonderfully - my symptoms greatly eased and mostly went away, I felt wonderful and I had so much energy - and since it was just a "trial" of pred, I was only given 10 mg per day for 5 days, and at the end of the 5 days my symptoms came right back with a vengeance. So I highly doubt I have IBS since pred worked for me. Just wanted to mention that to you since you said pred worked for you too. You may want to ask your doctor about that the next time you talk to him/her. Again, good luck!

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30 in 24 hours! :ywow:

That's good information to know. I know pred works real well on inflamation and like you it did the trick for me those many years ago. Right now things seem to be settling down so I don't think I need pred now but I probably should have been on it a few weeks ago. I have no idea what I've got. For years I have always thought I had chronic IBS (problems not on a daily basis but at least monthly) since the colonoscopy 17 years ago was "normal." But for the last 4 weeks of not having a formed or firm BM (total D), I am baffled and something's broken and it needs to be fixed -- this isn't normal. It's going to be interesting to see what the lab work results will say. Something tells me it will all be normal but yet I still have D. It's frustrating but it's obvious there are others on this forum who have been through a lot more than I have.

Zeb,

chrons can show up anywhere in the GI tract. Mine was in the ileum, which is basically the end of the small intestine where it attaches to the large intestine. This is where you absorb most of your nutrients. Since that area was inflamed I was not getting any nutririon and like you I lost a lot of weight, abut 30 pounds in 6 weeks. A lot of it was muscle loss, my arms and legs just shrank. Once I got on Prednisone I started to get it back. Sounds more and more like you have chron's.

I am now taking lialda, 4800 MG a day and doing pretty well.

Mayflower537 said:

Yes, nothing showed up with the C-scope except "multiple lymphoid nodules" in my colon, which no one seems to know about. i asked my doc about it, and he said the area where the small intestine meets large is one of high lymph activity. whatever that means.

then the "antral samples" pathology showed gastritis (mild, chronic) and "grade A esophagitis" which he saw with the scope. neither apparently crohn's related inflammation.

Click to expand...

mayflower, my biopsies revealed similar things, the terms were very similar gastritis, etc. But the pathologists made a comment that it is probably chrons and should be verified clinically. That's when they did the barium CT and found a lot of swelling in my small intestine, especially in the ileum, which is where the small and large intestine meet.

crohnicaly stinky said:

mayflower, my biopsies revealed similar things, the terms were very similar gastritis, etc. But the pathologists made a comment that it is probably chrons and should be verified clinically. That's when they did the barium CT and found a lot of swelling in my small intestine, especially in the ileum, which is where the small and large intestine meet.

Click to expand...

I will PM you so I don't hijack this.